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Point for fastest lap


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#651 pdac

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 11:59

I think every driver should get exactly 25 points awarded for each event. It's totally unfair to treat them differently. They are all F1 drivers, so why should some be treated differently to others?



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#652 SenorSjon

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 12:35

Ross Brawn: 

 

"The lure of an extra point, as long as it's set by a driver who is in the top 10 at the flag, was driven by the desire to add a bit of spice to the final stages of a race, especially when the order seems more or less set. China worked out just that way.

 

"The top six positions more or less decided, but with Pierre Gasly a healthy amount of time clear of Renault's Daniel Ricciardo, a Red Bull team decided to exploit the opportunity that gap gave for a free pit stop. They pitted the Frenchman for a set of soft tyres and sent him on his way for a crack at the fastest lap.

 

"It was great to watch the timing screens on the penultimate lap, seeing Gasly post personal bests in all three sectors to eventually steal the fastest lap from Sebastian Vettel.

 

"Prior to Gasly's stop, you could also listen to other drivers discussing their options in the closing stages with their team on the pit wall, even though none of them took any extreme risks. This was a rule invented to please the fans and I think that today we saw that it really works."

 

https://www.gpblog.c...says-brawn.html

 

Did the same thing (bolded part), eyes glued to the timing screen to see whether he can pull if off and steal the point from Vettel at the last moment!

 

The problem was there was no footage of it.  :mad:



#653 JRodrigues

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 13:01

Yes, that's how shockingly boring 80% of F1 races have become.

 

Exactly. Because 5 cars finishing on the leader lap, or a 2min advantage over the 2nd was so exciting.



#654 johnmhinds

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 14:24

The rest of the sport being shitty and uncompetitive isn't a good reason to add other random things that the fans don't even get to see.



#655 MKSixer

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 14:29

If you purchase the handily available Video, Timing and Scoring package from F1, you can see it in the telemetry.  Thanks Liberty!!   :stoned:



#656 SenorSjon

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 14:56

Exactly. Because 5 cars finishing on the leader lap, or a 2min advantage over the 2nd was so exciting.

 

So if 1 of the 3 top teams has a DNF, you have about the same 5 cars finishing on the lead lap. You hardly see it because they pace themselves way more than in the past.



#657 BobbyRicky

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 15:13

I like it.



#658 ensign14

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 15:20

The problem was there was no footage of it.  :mad:

 

He didn't say it was great to watch the footage.

 

He said it was great to watch the timing screens.

 

Because everybody loves to see random numbers flashing up and seeing which one is the higher.

 

Play Your Cards Right ran for decades on that entire premise.



#659 sopa

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 17:10

Fastest lap seems to become a "5th place bonus point". An opportunity for last of the top team runners to get a consolation point. Even Gasly has got a few of them already.

 

Feels a bit of a pointless exercise, TBH.



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#660 Garndell

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 17:14

I think it should be modified so you have to be on the set of tyres for say 5 laps before the FL becomes valid for the point.  The way Vettel could just stop and put in that 1 blast felt kind of hollow, which I find disturbing as i want the drivers to push every lap.



#661 ExFlagMan

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 17:37

The way some drivers are behaving maybe they should also award a point for the Shortest Lap.

#662 OO7

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 17:58

I think it should be modified so you have to be on the set of tyres for say 5 laps before the FL becomes valid for the point.  The way Vettel could just stop and put in that 1 blast felt kind of hollow, which I find disturbing as i want the drivers to push every lap.

I like that idea Garndell, but perhaps is should be based on a percentage of the total race laps, to account for variations in circuit length?



#663 GoldenColt

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 18:08

Or maybe we get rid of this alltogether?



#664 B38

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 18:11

1 point for the fastest Lap per tyre type and an additional bonus point for the Fastest lap overall. :wave:



#665 Garndell

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 18:11

I like that idea Garndell, but perhaps is should be based on a percentage of the total race laps, to account for variations in circuit length?

 

You know what, a % is better, 10% rounded to nearest whole number so France 5, Canada 7, Spa 4 etc would work.



#666 Jovanotti

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 18:18

You know what, a % is better, 10% rounded to nearest whole number so France 5, Canada 7, Spa 4 etc would work.

I think that'd sound ridiculous if you had to convey it to more casual viewers.

#667 DeKnyff

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 18:20

I think the point for the fastest lap would be great in case of closer racing, so that drivers have an incentive to go quicker until the end. But in the current situation, when there is always a driver who can afford a free pitstop and comfortably set a FL on new rubber, it doesn't add anything to the show. Furthermore, it rewards the slowest driver of the top three teams (usually Gasly) or, like in France, the driver who was far from the lead because he screwed qualy (Vettel). Completely unfair, IMO.

 

I think the concept could stay, but the rules should be tighter. For example, I suggest the point wouldn't be awarded if the tyres had been changed in the last ten laps: no artificial FL with new tyres.



#668 Kalmake

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 18:40

Then Vettel would have come in earlier and done 9 laps as slowly as affordable to save tyres before attacking. Good?

 

FL point is always an incentive to go slower first in order to go faster for one lap. Even if there is no pit stop, they will try to lower temps and then attack.



#669 mclarensmps

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 18:46

It won't make a massive difference (or one at all) in the current formula, but I'd love it to return to the 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 points system. 

Those who are calling this boring forget Ferrari in the 00s and McLaren in the 80s.



#670 pdac

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 18:47

Fastest lap seems to become a "5th place bonus point". An opportunity for last of the top team runners to get a consolation point. Even Gasly has got a few of them already.

 

Feels a bit of a pointless exercise, TBH.

 

Err, no. It started off that way. It was always going to be so. People said this before it was introduced.

 

 

I think it should be modified so you have to be on the set of tyres for say 5 laps before the FL becomes valid for the point.  The way Vettel could just stop and put in that 1 blast felt kind of hollow, which I find disturbing as i want the drivers to push every lap.

 

Yeah, lets try to tweak and tweak it to try to get it to do what we want it to. But it won't happen, because the teams will do what is best for them within what they are allowed. So it's always going to be farcical.

 

Why not just realise what it is and either accept it or get rid of it.



#671 ANF

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 18:47

Or maybe we get rid of this alltogether?

Yes please.

#672 Grundle

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 18:56

It won't make a massive difference (or one at all) in the current formula, but I'd love it to return to the 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 points system.

Those who are calling this boring forget Ferrari in the 00s and McLaren in the 80s.

I agree, this points system was the best one. It just feels like a formula one points system. Pretty sure Lewis would have won 2016 with this system, which is interesting as the current system is meant to reward wins more.

#673 Retrofly

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 18:59

They should wait to bring in a point for FL when the gap between the front runners and midfield isn't greater than the length of a pitstop, so that will be eerrrr, never.

 

Still waiting for someone to try and go for FL and mess up the pitstop meaning the they drop places, or have to retire because of a loose wheel. It has to happen eventually.



#674 ensign14

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 19:04

I'd like one of the alleged journalists that pretend to cover the sport to ask how happy they are with a points scheme which benefits Pierre Gasly twice as much as Lewis Hamilton.



#675 Retrofly

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 19:21

I'd like one of the alleged journalists that pretend to cover the sport to ask how happy they are with a points scheme which benefits Pierre Gasly twice as much as Lewis Hamilton.

I thought that was the point though, a way for people further down the field to grab points.



#676 Hezekiah

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 19:32

Utterly pointless. I had no idea why some people were getting excited about it at the start of the season.

Another pathetic bandaid for a sport where the latest regulations have made a minuscule amount of difference in terms of close racing.

#677 SenorSjon

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 19:35

It won't make a massive difference (or one at all) in the current formula, but I'd love it to return to the 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 points system.

Those who are calling this boring forget Ferrari in the 00s and McLaren in the 80s.

That system encouraged not attacking since a DNF was very costly between top positions. My favorite is still 10-6-4-3-2-1. Very easy to work out standings on the fly.


Edited by SenorSjon, 25 June 2019 - 07:15.


#678 f1paul

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 19:47

I don't mind it personally. 

 

Why complain? If it wasn't there, it would just mean Vettel, for example, would just cruise to 5th place. And it encouraged Hamilton to push at the end to try and get the extra point. Do you now want to see the drivers pushing at 100%, even if it's just for a lap or two? Better than cruising around at the end IMO.


Edited by f1paul, 24 June 2019 - 19:47.


#679 PlatenGlass

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 20:17

I think it should be modified so you have to be on the set of tyres for say 5 laps before the FL becomes valid for the point.  The way Vettel could just stop and put in that 1 blast felt kind of hollow, which I find disturbing as i want the drivers to push every lap.

He still only has to push on one of the laps. I'm not sure it would add anything. The reason they pit to leave themselves just one flying lap is to stop the next driver up also coming in for a free pitstop on the following lap. And this would make that even worse. Vettel would have had five chances for fastest lap but the other drivers in front would then not be able to pit for fastest lap at all.

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#680 pdac

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 20:17

I don't mind it personally. 

 

Why complain? If it wasn't there, it would just mean Vettel, for example, would just cruise to 5th place. And it encouraged Hamilton to push at the end to try and get the extra point. Do you now want to see the drivers pushing at 100%, even if it's just for a lap or two? Better than cruising around at the end IMO.

 

I'm happy with that for others, but I really couldn't give a flying for one car beating out a single hot lap when it makes no difference.



#681 Kalmake

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 20:18

I agree, this points system was the best one. It just feels like a formula one points system. Pretty sure Lewis would have won 2016 with this system, which is interesting as the current system is meant to reward wins more.

Wouldn't've. Play here https://formula1.mar...oints-simulator



#682 Marklar

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 20:19

They should disallow the last stint for all drivers, problem solved   ;)



#683 pdac

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 20:24

They should disallow the last stint for all drivers, problem solved   ;)

 

Then it would be awarded by default because none of them are going to go for it intentionally. Also, I think the reason for introducing it was to stop the teams just holding station and cruising home during the last stint (even though anyone with half a brain would realise that this extra point would make no difference to that).

 

What would be nicer would be to only consider cars that are outside the top 10, Let the lower teams have a chance at a point - they would be much more likely to scrap over it.



#684 Clatter

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 20:46

I thought that was the point though, a way for people further down the field to grab points.

Except they took away the chance from those outside the top ten.

#685 Garndell

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 22:10

Except they took away the chance from those outside the top ten.

 

If they got rid of that stupid limitation then if say Leclerc was down in 16th near the end of the race then he'd have a reason to finish the race, as it stands he'd be more likely to retire and save the engine.



#686 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 22:18

I think it does what it was designed to do - offer a strategic advantage for some people to push more at least at other points. Yeah, sometimes it will mean easy grabs for someone like Vettel, but there will not always be a free pitstop available for it to be so straight.



#687 ATM

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 22:29

At least it forces Mercedes out of their cave and allows us to see what their car can really do. Jesus, it nearly got FL with worn out hards. Ominous...

#688 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 July 2019 - 07:22

It won't make a massive difference (or one at all) in the current formula, but I'd love it to return to the 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 points system. 
 

 

That would be a terrible system at the moment. With current reliability levels you need points going further down the field. That system also has the worst reward for winning races.



#689 absinthedude

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Posted 05 July 2019 - 07:44

Regarding points systems, 10 (or 9), 6,4,3,2,1 worked when only about a third to half of the field finished. You had 26 cars and sometimes were lucky if 10 made it to the flag (on a couple of occasions less than six did). So on average about half the finishers scored points. It was an achievement to score F1 points, you weren't just turning up and finishing races...you had to show some speed.

 

Today it is fitting that the top 10 all score because typically 18-20 cars finish. Everyone bar Williams has scored points, and that fits the performance patterns of the cars and teams. 

 

An unintentional consequence of the "X engines per year" rule has been bullet proof reliability. Back in the days when only the best 11 results out of 16 races even counted, teams could go for performance over reliability knowing that a handful of retirements didn't matter if they were fast when they finished. of course this did lead to anomalies and to some people complaining their brains hurt at the calculations. Apparently figuring out that a 5th place scored fewer points than a third place was too difficult for F1 fans at the time....and in the mid 80s when this sytem was beginning to be questioned, budgets were perhaps £15 million for a top team and that was considered extravagant. 

 

The point for FL isn't especially exciting nor is it a bad idea. There are circumstances when it could add to the excitement either to an individual race or to a title fight. And on the occasions when it doesn't add to the spice....it really doesn't take anything away either. 


Edited by absinthedude, 05 July 2019 - 07:48.