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Point for fastest lap


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#51 TomNokoe

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:28

But remember, F1 fans NEED something to moan about!

I'll be amazed if this has any tangible impact on anything in the next 20 years. (Other than Croft making a meal out of nothing.)

Its basically like a consolation goal where the team is already 5-0 down.

Doesn't matter if it won't affect anything, Liberty thought it was a good idea, which is crazy.

It's not like a consolation goal. You still get 0 points for a loss.

Edited by TomNokoe, 08 March 2019 - 11:28.


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#52 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:30

Doesn't matter if it won't affect anything, Liberty thought it was a good idea, which is crazy.

It's not like a consolation goal. You still get 0 points for a loss.

Yes, but one point, 1 point, in the way the scoring system works now is pretty much irrelevant.

 

I do agree though - its a pointless (excuse the pun) rule. It adds nothing.



#53 MrMonaco

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:30

I prefer racing for a position to racing for a fastest lap.



#54 SenorSjon

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:31

Perhaps a point for fastest lap will encourage the top teams to pick up the pace a bit during the race. Or, perhaps, save the tyres even more so they can push towards the end of the race...

 

And then lap the field again? They aren't going slow enough for others to keep up.

 

I've read it correctly. I said steal a point, not gain a point.

 

If P6 has fastest lap, he has an extra point.

 

Pit in P11, get fastest lap, you 'steal' the point from P6 guy. You don't gain one yourself.

 

Right?

 

Or the fastest P1-P10 placed driver, disregarding P11 and lower.

 

 

Hamilton is 1st, Vettel is 2nd, Bottas is 3rd. Vettel is provisional world champion per a single point as he's got the fastest lap. There's 5 laps to go. Mercedes pits Bottas and gives him the softest tyres to try and nick the FL from Vettel and therefore give the championship to Lewis.
 
Bottas comes out of the pits in 9th place. Does a great lap immediately, the Mercedes pits rejoice and start celebrating. BUT, he cooks his tyres and immediately starts dropping back. Raikkonen and Giovanizzi overtake him in the last lap for 9th then 10th, therefore handing back the FL point and the championship back to Vettel again.

 

 

Erm, the worst he can do is come out in 6th place with a mighty gap to 7th and enough space for 1-2 runs.



#55 smr

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:31

Really don't see why there's so much negativity about it.

 

Imagine this. There are 5 grand prix left of the season. Vettel leads Hamilton by 2 points. Fastest laps could make the difference. 

 

Instead of years ago where Hamilton would be out front drifting off into the sunset by 30 seconds, engine down, fuel saving, and driving around like a granny he'll have to think about the reality that the season could be decided by a single point (fastest lap for instance)... so instead of Bob falling asleep on his sofa as the wicks been turned down by all the Merc engineers, cruise control has been set and the fuel gauge is as happy as larry, we may see all of the opposite. Vettel in second place pushing for fastest lap and Hamilton having to respond. At least, for one thing, we'll probably see no cruising (zzzzz) home anymore.



#56 baddog

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:33

You get a reward for the fastest lap.. you went faster so finished sooner. Same as qualifying where you get a better start in the race. I presume based on this wwe nonsense that they will soon be giving a point for pole too.



#57 TomNokoe

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:35

Really don't see why there's so much negativity about it.

 

Imagine this. There are 5 grand prix left of the season. Vettel leads Hamilton by 2 points. Fastest laps could make the difference. 

 

Instead of years ago where Hamilton would be out front drifting off into the sunset by 30 seconds, engine down, fuel saving, and driving around like a granny he'll have to think about the reality that the season could be decided by a single point (fastest lap for instance)... so instead of Bob falling asleep on his sofa as the wicks been turned down by all the Merc engineers, cruise control has been set and the fuel gauge is as happy as larry, we may see all of the opposite. Vettel in second place pushing for fastest lap and Hamilton having to respond. At least, for one thing, we'll probably see no cruising (zzzzz) home anymore.

This idea of Hamilton and Vettel having a mini-qualifying session in the last 10 laps will never happen. And it wouldn't be exciting if it did. Just give them a point for pole if it's that important, ffs.


Edited by TomNokoe, 08 March 2019 - 11:43.


#58 Okyo

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:38

So, basicly everyone lower than 10th at the end of the race will pit for new tires?



#59 GrumpyYoungMan

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:39

There are more important problems that need fixing than this - this is a rubbish idea!



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#60 milestone 11

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:40

More Liberty bollocks!

#61 Lights

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:40

Really don't see why there's so much negativity about it.

 

Imagine this. There are 5 grand prix left of the season. Vettel leads Hamilton by 2 points. Fastest laps could make the difference. 

 

Instead of years ago where Hamilton would be out front drifting off into the sunset by 30 seconds, engine down, fuel saving, and driving around like a granny he'll have to think about the reality that the season could be decided by a single point (fastest lap for instance)... so instead of Bob falling asleep on his sofa as the wicks been turned down by all the Merc engineers, cruise control has been set and the fuel gauge is as happy as larry, we may see all of the opposite. Vettel in second place pushing for fastest lap and Hamilton having to respond. At least, for one thing, we'll probably see no cruising (zzzzz) home anymore.

 

We so won't see the opposite. If anything, in your described scenario Hamilton would turn up the wick for 1 lap near the end to set the fastest lap of the race on tires that he cruised on until then. If anything this often means the leader will be in the best position to get the fastest lap as well. It won't make a significant difference to the amount of cruising, and it definitely won't do anything for the spectacle.



#62 Lights

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:41

Just give them a point for pole, ffs.

 

Just leave it as it is ffs.


Edited by Lights, 08 March 2019 - 11:41.


#63 GrumpyYoungMan

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:41

Really don't see why there's so much negativity about it.

 

Imagine this. There are 5 grand prix left of the season. Vettel leads Hamilton by 2 points. Fastest laps could make the difference. 

 

Instead of years ago where Hamilton would be out front drifting off into the sunset by 30 seconds, engine down, fuel saving, and driving around like a granny he'll have to think about the reality that the season could be decided by a single point (fastest lap for instance)... so instead of Bob falling asleep on his sofa as the wicks been turned down by all the Merc engineers, cruise control has been set and the fuel gauge is as happy as larry, we may see all of the opposite. Vettel in second place pushing for fastest lap and Hamilton having to respond. At least, for one thing, we'll probably see no cruising (zzzzz) home anymore.

 

It wont make that kind of difference - when was the last time a championship was deicded by a single point?



#64 Tsarwash

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:42

Why do they have to use the term 'e-vote' ? It seems totally unnecessary to me, I simply do not care what medium is used for the actual voting process is used. 



#65 P123

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:47

We so won't see the opposite. If anything, in your described scenario Hamilton would turn up the wick for 1 lap near the end to set the fastest lap of the race on tires that he cruised on until then. If anything this often means the leader will be in the best position to get the fastest lap as well. It won't make a significant difference to the amount of cruising, and it definitely won't do anything for the spectacle.


In the era of limited PU components and gearboxes, and fuel, nobody with a 30s lead (rarely happens as they'd be cruising long before that anyway!) is going to risk all for a point. Although would be hilarious to see somebody screw their own race trying to do just that.

I suppose it gives something to talk about late in the race for shouty Crofty, jaded Brundle and snore bore Chandhok. Wonderful stuff.

#66 Radion

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:50

This is like double points all over again

#67 Tsarwash

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:53

I think that we should retrospectively apply this to the 2007 season and watch some people in this forum explode with ire. :)



#68 midgrid

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:57

With how modern races play out, this rule will (unless the midfield have closed the gap unexpectedly and dramatically) actually reward drivers who take more time to complete the race distance, i.e. because they will make a pit stop for fresh tyres.  That's my main objection to this rule (and something that wasn't a factor when the point was awarded back in the 1950s).



#69 Kalmake

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:59

Really don't see why there's so much negativity about it.

 

Imagine this. There are 5 grand prix left of the season. Vettel leads Hamilton by 2 points. Fastest laps could make the difference. 

 

Instead of years ago where Hamilton would be out front drifting off into the sunset by 30 seconds, engine down, fuel saving, and driving around like a granny he'll have to think about the reality that the season could be decided by a single point (fastest lap for instance)... so instead of Bob falling asleep on his sofa as the wicks been turned down by all the Merc engineers, cruise control has been set and the fuel gauge is as happy as larry, we may see all of the opposite. Vettel in second place pushing for fastest lap and Hamilton having to respond. At least, for one thing, we'll probably see no cruising (zzzzz) home anymore.

They will need to cruise even more to save tyres and fuel for a fast lap at the end.



#70 sportyskells

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:08

Have people forgot I think F2 does this as well giving points for fastest laps



#71 Marklar

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:14

Have people forgot I think F2 does this as well giving points for fastest laps

F2 has also reverse grids, doesnt make it right for other series, no?



#72 TheGoldenStoffel

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:15

Why do they have to use the term 'e-vote' ? It seems totally unnecessary to me, I simply do not care what medium is used for the actual voting process is used. 

 

These days people seem to think adding an E to something makes it somehow cool or trendy, just like in the past they added "Turbo" to everything from dishwashers to key-rings.

 

On the subject of the point for fastest lap, it's rubbish.. DHL probably wanted more bang for their buck and the Liberty Americans gave in because they think it will add "Drama", "Spectacle" and "Show" or something...



#73 Knowlesy

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:16

Wow, yet another idiotic F1 idea.

#74 Nemo1965

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:19

Ha.

 

I ve got two popcorn-situations for this. One. The rule exists for ten years and it really not changes one championship for either teams or drivers and it will be abolished. Then the sourpusses come out in force. Two. A driver, say, Charles LeClerc is leading the last race of the season. If the race finishes as it is, he is just enough points ahead of Max Verstappen, who is third in the race. Then Verstappen, MILES ahead of the fourth placed man, takes a late pitstop, fresh tires, low fuel, and gets a point for fastest lap. Verstappen wins the title by 1 point advantage. 

 

Outrage. Autosport Forums explode! Popcorn-buckets needed the size of Taj Mahal.


Edited by Nemo1965, 08 March 2019 - 12:19.


#75 beachdrifter

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:19

This is like double points all over again


For the guy in 10th place! 😀

#76 JRodrigues

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:24

Moaning, the favourite hobby for F1 fans.



#77 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:28

Which are all extraordinarily unlikely to happen. All of them.


This primarily being beneficial to p5/6 who can afford the free pit stop, or people using a tow from their team mate (could drop a lap down to help out even) to get DRS seems unlikely to happen to you? I frankly don’t see how more good than bad can come from this.

Edited by FullOppositeLock, 08 March 2019 - 12:29.


#78 pdac

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:31

Utter and ultimate folly. Unbelievable. It's like awarding score for the player who ran the most or possessed the ball the most or shoot the most or whatever in football. Just laughable, pathetic. These organizers really dont have clue about racing and about Formula 1.

 

This



#79 pdac

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:33

I wonder if we'll see some drivers wanting to push for the fastest lap and their teams telling them to hold position and look after the PU?



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#80 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:34

Moaning, the favourite hobby for F1 fans.


True perhaps, but moaning about a new rule using well reasoned arguments hands down beats fans moaning about fellow fans moaning for the sake of moaning.

#81 PayasYouRace

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:35

Typical. F1 fans clamour for the old days all the time. When a rule from the old days is reintroduced, F1 fans say it's stupid.



#82 midgrid

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:41

Have people forgot I think F2 does this as well giving points for fastest laps

 

In spec series it's fine, because the point will go to the fastest driver, not the slowest driver of the teams with a huge car advantage over the rest of the field.



#83 GunnarN7

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:42

Isn't this going to be detrimental for "slow" strategies? I mean, let's say that in a race there's two possible strategies. One consists in being always on the harder compounds, sacrificing pace in exchange of less time at the pits. The other is the opposite, faster pace (and a faster lap overall) but more time at the pits. We've seen this a lot of times.

 

Who's going to opt for the first one when it means throwing away a possible point? One thing is ruining your strategy just for one point, but when there's two equal options and only one gives you an actual chance to get an extra point, you'll always choose that one.

 

I suppose this was already discussed before the rule was approved, but yeah it wouldn't be the first time that a rule change backfires.


Edited by GunnarN7, 08 March 2019 - 13:33.


#84 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:43

Typical. F1 fans clamour for the old days all the time. When a rule from the old days is reintroduced, F1 fans say it's stupid.


How about we determine whether a rule is worthwhile based on its merits rather than whether it has been in use before? Might as well reintroduce double points for last race or Bernie’s qualifying farce if that’s the depth of the argument. Let’s be real here: the powers that be have thought about things they could do to spice up the show a bit when races are for the most part decided after the last round of pitstops, and they’ve come up with this idea. It’s not some nostalgic throwback - if they wanted to make the sport more like the old days they could start by reintroducing gravel traps and engines that actually make an impression on those who attend grand prix.

#85 midgrid

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:43

Isn't this going to be detrimental for "slow" strategies? I mean, let's say that in a race there's two possible strategies. One consists in being always on the harder compounds, sacrificing pace in exchange of less time at the pits. The other is the opposite, faster pace (and a faster lap overall) but more times at the pits. We've seen this a lot of times.

 

Who's going to opt for the first one when it means throwing away a possible point? One thing is ruining your strategy just for one point, but when there's two equal options and only one gives you an actual chance to get an extra point, you'll always choose that one.

 

I suppose this was already discussed before the rule was approved, but yeah it wouldn't be the first time that a rule change backfires.

 

I wouldn't have thought that this wouldn't be an issue, as the points differential between places for the faster overall race strategy will still outweigh the bonus point, unless the parties involved are in ninth and tenth places.



#86 Danyy

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:45

I’m down for this! We want drivers pushing the whole race don’t we? Good, then this helps achieve some of that and teams have something extra to aim for instead of the same old tyre saving delta lap driving we get.

#87 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:47

I’m down for this! We want drivers pushing the whole race don’t we? Good, then this helps achieve some of that and teams have something extra to aim for instead of the same old tyre saving delta lap driving we get.


How does incentivising setting the one single fastest lap in a race help drivers push the entire race distance? As others have explained, the opposite is much more likely to happen, i.e. drivers saving tyres even more for one low fuel all battery power unleashed fast lap, at the detriment of dozens of laps before it...

Edited by FullOppositeLock, 08 March 2019 - 12:48.


#88 DeKnyff

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:48

Not a huge fan, but let's see how it unfolds. At least, it's something based on pure performance.



#89 johnmhinds

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:49

I don’t think I’ve ever seen any post race discussion on here about fastest laps in a race.

So I wonder if this kind of thing has any real appeal to F1 fans.

#90 thegforcemaybewithyou

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:51

A point for this change could be that it encourages more pit stops. Let's say that a team looks at the best tyre strategy and finds out that a one stopper is basically as fast as a two stopper. The usual solution is to go for one stop in such a scenario. With the two stopper race, the laptimes at the end are faster and you have better cards to fight for the extra point. Maybe that's what the rule change is aiming at?

#91 Anderis

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:52

I like the idea and don't agree with criticism. I have always wanted F1 to go back to points for fastest laps.

 

If it influences the championship... well, that's the reason to give poitns for a FL in the first place- so that it counts for the championship. It would not be the first time in F1's history even including the fact that the racing was very different in 50-ties.

 

I'm OK with drivers making an additional pit-stop to go for FL. It's a risk-reward question. You can always end up with a botched pit-stop and end up losing more than you would gain. The fact that not every driver will be in equally good position to risk going for FL is OK for me too. Tactical advantage/disadvantage for factors outside of drivers control happens all the time. Some benefit from SC, VSC, some lose. Some can afford additional pit-stop during a race in which tyre durability is uncertain, some don't (if they want to mantain the chance for optimal result). Some get more trouble from lapping other drivers, some less. FL will be just another part of the game. If races become too straightforward, they end up not being memorable at all, because we tend to remember anomaly. That's the reason I miss the attrition from older days. Nowadays 90% of races have similar results to each other so after 2 years I can't remember them anymore. 

 

Drivers "stealing" FL from another driver? Like there would be a "righteous" driver to set a FL? No, you get FL for setting the fastest lap of the race, just like you get a race win for being first to complete the race distance (in a legal way). The rules are the same for everyone, so if someone makes an additional pit-stop so that another driver can't take the point, so be it. It's not like 2nd drivers are never being put on sub-optimal strategy to compromise the race of a driver from rival team. Should we forbid the strategy too, then? Will we call it a farce if the title is won this way on the last race of the season?
 

All in all I conclude that many F1 fans are masters of overreaction.


Edited by Anderis, 08 March 2019 - 12:53.


#92 Danyy

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:52

How does incentivising setting the one single fastest lap in a race help drivers push the entire race distance? As others have explained, the opposite is much more likely to happen, i.e. drivers saving tyres even more for one low fuel all battery power unleashed fast lap, at the detriment of dozens of laps before it...


Well that’s where it gets interesting, some might try to save tyres while others will just go all out to overtake and get extra points anyway. Net result - we get more racing!

Edited by Danyy, 08 March 2019 - 12:59.


#93 DeKnyff

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:52

How does incentivising setting the one single fastest lap in a race help drivers push the entire race distance? As others have explained, the opposite is much more likely to happen, i.e. drivers saving tyres even more for one low fuel all battery power unleashed fast lap, at the detriment of dozens of laps before it...

I don't think drivers are going to put in jeopardy a high race finish for one meagre point. 



#94 milestone 11

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:55

I think that we should retrospectively apply this to the 2007 season and watch some people in this forum explode with ire. :)


Do you mean '08? If so, I'd go along with that if the Spa debacle were rectified.  ;)

#95 muramasa

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:59

Really don't see why there's so much negativity about it.

 

Imagine this. There are 5 grand prix left of the season. Vettel leads Hamilton by 2 points. Fastest laps could make the difference.

Utter farce, utter disaster. Champion would be meaningless. No value for championship. In F1 format over the last decades or half century or in its entire history, esp current formula, fastest lap is totally irrelevant. It's same as giving points for the player who shot fastest speed ball, touching net and on the line gets points automatically etc in tennis, giving score for the player who had the most possession etc in football, etc. I just cannot believe F1 fans supporting this utter bull.



#96 Marklar

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 13:07

A point for this change could be that it encourages more pit stops. Let's say that a team looks at the best tyre strategy and finds out that a one stopper is basically as fast as a two stopper. The usual solution is to go for one stop in such a scenario. With the two stopper race, the laptimes at the end are faster and you have better cards to fight for the extra point. Maybe that's what the rule change is aiming at?

If it's a 50/50 call, then yes, otherwise that one point will not make teams change their strategy, unless they have nothing to lose which will likely just be the case for the 6th placed car in most scenarios.



#97 PayasYouRace

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 13:07

Utter farce, utter disaster. Champion would be meaningless. No value for championship. In F1 format over the last decades or half century or in its entire history, esp current formula, fastest lap is totally irrelevant. It's same as giving points for the player who shot fastest speed ball, touching net and on the line gets points automatically etc in tennis, giving score for the player who had the most possession etc in football, etc. I just cannot believe F1 fans supporting this utter bull.


I think it says it all that I can’t even tell if this is a serious or a sarcastic post.

#98 milestone 11

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 13:15

Some say Japanese people don't do sarcasm.

#99 ch103

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 13:24

In theory, if one driver wins this every single race, its almost the equivalent of a "free" second place finish...



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#100 Anja

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 13:27

Ah, good old F1 with its last-minute rule changes. The exact practical effects are hard to predict so I won't judge from that standpoint, but on principle I don't like any extra points so can't say I'm a fan. It's hardly the end of the world though.