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Point for fastest lap


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#101 metz

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 13:28

Driving fast is not racing.... :down:



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#102 absinthedude

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 13:35

I am ambivalent.

 

It introduces a new possibility for team tactics....but team tactics are hardly new. There have been attempts to exploit every change in the scoring system since 1950. I don't see this as a problem.

 

However, I don't know if it will really spice up the show. If what we want is drivers pushing all the way then we need to end the practice of limiting the number of PU's a driver can use during the season. Though personally I've always felt that looking after tyres, fuel, engines, brakes and other mechanical parts are an integral part of motor racing. 

 

I feel that this won't have much likelihood of affecting the title battle. The scenarios postulated are pretty long shots. What it might do is affect the tactics of teams battling at the bottom end of the top 10.....eg Perez is in 9th with a 30 second gap to 10th. He could pit for fresh soft tyres with 5 laps to go, but might risk a botched stop or overcooking it in his attempt to grab that extra point which will lift Racing Point to 8th in the standings. 

 



#103 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 13:38

Ahhh  I can see it now!

 

Driver A is 10 seconds ahead of his teammate. Teammate is 25 seconds ahead of third place man. 3 laps to go. Driver A pits to grab fastest lap point, teammate passes him and he returns in P2. Onto the penultimate lap, teammate slows down sufficiently to let driver A back past to take the win he richly deserved and the additional point.

 

That would be a farce, and fans on here along with the media would batter the team. But in reality, any team would do this.

 

Blame the rules, not the teams.


Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 08 March 2019 - 13:39.


#104 Lights

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 13:39

What worries me is how we get headlines of Carey promising "Liberty Media won't 'gimmick-up' F1", Brawn saying "simpler rules are "a key objective" for F1 future", which gives me some faith in that these guys know what needs to be done.

 

And then like a slap in the face, these sort of fruitless rules come up right before the season starts. This is elimination qualifying or the Abu Double all over again. What are they going to introduce a week before the Aus GP next year, a highest topspeed-bonuspoint? A point for Driver of the Day? 



#105 DeKnyff

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 13:41

Utter farce, utter disaster. Champion would be meaningless. No value for championship. In F1 format over the last decades or half century or in its entire history, esp current formula, fastest lap is totally irrelevant. It's same as giving points for the player who shot fastest speed ball, touching net and on the line gets points automatically etc in tennis, giving score for the player who had the most possession etc in football, etc. I just cannot believe F1 fans supporting this utter bull.

However, Tour de France gives bonus seconds to the winner of certain stages.


Edited by DeKnyff, 08 March 2019 - 13:44.


#106 JRodrigues

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 13:42

True perhaps, but moaning about a new rule using well reasoned arguments hands down beats fans moaning about fellow fans moaning for the sake of moaning.

 

Correct. But nothing beats moaning about fans moaning about fellow fans moaning for the sake of moaning.



#107 Anja

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 13:44

What worries me is how we get headlines of Carey promising "Liberty Media won't 'gimmick-up' F1", Brawn saying "simpler rules are "a key objective" for F1 future", which gives me some faith in that these guys know what needs to be done.

 

And then like a slap in the face, these sort of fruitless rules come up right before the season starts. This is elimination qualifying or the Abu Double all over again. What are they going to introduce a week before the Aus GP next year, a highest topspeed-bonuspoint? A point for Driver of the Day? 

 

I think they're a bit too optimistic and naive. Because it's really a nice idea... but only in theory - in the perfect world where the racing is pure and simple and the fastest lap just happens naturally. But we know well that's not the reality and it most likely will produce some idiotic scenarios. 



#108 GunnarN7

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 13:47

I wouldn't have thought that this wouldn't be an issue, as the points differential between places for the faster overall race strategy will still outweigh the bonus point, unless the parties involved are in ninth and tenth places.

 

Others have already adressed this, but you're talking about an scenario in which there is a faster overall strategy. But what if it is 50/50? The one that gives you the chance to get the fastest lap would always win, so no variety. But if the point is to get them to make more stops to avoid one stopper strategies I guess they could be onto something there, but I still don't see it as a valid solution because this is a very specific example. This could happen every now and then but at the end of the day I think the 6th car will get it over and over again.



#109 steferrari

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 13:50

Imagine if a driver is leading with a comfortable 25 seconds gap and there's only two or three laps to go.
Let's say that a normal pit costs you 22/23 seconds.
Would the team put the win at risk to get that additional point?
 
This could be interesting too.  :D


#110 Lights

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 13:51

Typical. F1 fans clamour for the old days all the time. When a rule from the old days is reintroduced, F1 fans say it's stupid.

 

That's oversimplified. It's a rash generalization that the vocal fans in here being against a fastest lap point are the same people that 'clamour for the old days'. 

 

And just because someone thinks the racing was better in a previous era doesn't mean that the reintroduced rule was what made the racing better.

 

Also, in isolation, any rule can work better or worse in different era's.



#111 GrumpyYoungMan

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 14:01

That's oversimplified. It's a rash generalization that the vocal fans in here being against a fastest lap point are the same people that 'clamour for the old days'. 

 

And just because someone thinks the racing was better in a previous era doesn't mean that the reintroduced rule was what made the racing better.

 

Also, in isolation, any rule can work better or worse in different era's.

 

Not me - I don't "clamour for the old days" but that point idea is as stupid as it comes. (in my opinion)



#112 Rinehart

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 14:03

Well some people certainly don't like change...!

Might have changed the 2016 championship finale a bit, as Rosberg would only have needed to finish 3rd...

I don't think it will make a load of difference so I don't give much of a hoot. 



#113 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 14:07

 

Imagine if a driver is leading with a comfortable 25 seconds gap and there's only two or three laps to go.
Let's say that a normal pit costs you 22/23 seconds.
Would the team put the win at risk to get that additional point?
 
This could be interesting too.  :D

 

Highly doubt they would risk a botched pitstop for the extra one point. 



#114 HP

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 14:07

Well it worked not so well in FE didn't it?

 

https://www.autospor...rill-or-a-farce (As subscription required )



#115 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 14:08

So, basicly everyone lower than 10th at the end of the race will pit for new tires?

No, the point for fastest lap can only be scored by driver inside of the top ten. To prevent what you’re posting, everyone outside of the top ten pitting just to get a point.

#116 pdac

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 14:09

Typical. F1 fans clamour for the old days all the time. When a rule from the old days is reintroduced, F1 fans say it's stupid.

 

The fact that you say this just goes to show how little you are interested in considering arguments that go against what you feel. Many people clamour for the return of certain aspects of racing from the old days. I do not believe there is anyone who simply wants to return to everything from the past. Are you really saying that you think there are?


Edited by pdac, 08 March 2019 - 14:09.


#117 thegforcemaybewithyou

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 14:11

Btw, it has been asked in a survey on f1fanvoice.com how fans feel about a point for the fastest lap. As many here seem to be opposed, maybe register there and influence the future results.

#118 Lights

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 14:17

Btw, it has been asked in a survey on f1fanvoice.com how fans feel about a point for the fastest lap. As many here seem to be opposed, maybe register there and influence the future results.

 

That was indeed my worry, that they use their F1 Fan Voice market research as gospel. Especially knowing their twisted way of asking questions.



#119 PayasYouRace

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 14:20

The fact that you say this just goes to show how little you are interested in considering arguments that go against what you feel. Many people clamour for the return of certain aspects of racing from the old days. I do not believe there is anyone who simply wants to return to everything from the past. Are you really saying that you think there are?

 

No I'm not. I'm venting my frustration that every single little thing that happens in F1, no matter how insignificant, get's complained about to the death before it's even been put to the test.



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#120 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 14:38

Give it a run... see how things go. I don't see what all the fuss is about.

#121 Lights

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 14:40

No I'm not. I'm venting my frustration that every single little thing that happens in F1, no matter how insignificant, get's complained about to the death before it's even been put to the test.

Maybe that's because pointless changes that hardly anyone asked for usually don't work out, and despite their expected insignificance are still not a welcome thought for farcical scenarios in which it nevertheless does turn out to be significant.

 

I don't want to see it being 'put to the test', I want great quality racing and there's 0% chance this rule is working towards that, and if anything might hamper it.



#122 SB

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 14:42

Stupid idea. If they want to give bonus points to the fastest car, give it to the pole man as the situation (fuel,  tires) is more or less equal and thus more fair.



#123 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 14:43

Correct. But nothing beats moaning about fans moaning about fellow fans moaning for the sake of moaning.

 

I knew that was coming  :p



#124 TomNokoe

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 14:53

Maybe that's because pointless changes that hardly anyone asked for usually don't work out, and despite their expected insignificance are still not a welcome thought for farcical scenarios in which it nevertheless does turn out to be significant.

 

I don't want to see it being 'put to the test', I want great quality racing and there's 0% chance this rule is working towards that, and if anything might hamper it.

Your eloquence belies me!! Spot on.

 

It's going to be so blatant and awkward in reality... all for a measly point!



#125 ensign14

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 14:53

We’ve had some pretty moronic ideas in Formula 1 lately.  A street race in a city that doesn’t give a **** about it but getting rid of races in F1’s heartlands with 150,000 spectators.  People say there is too much reliance on front wings and that makes overtaking more difficult, so they change the rules to make sure there is even more reliance on front wings.  DRS to fake overtaking, a penalty point system that makes it literally impossible ever to reach the target, taking all the points off Force India because Ocon and Perez racing the VJM11 is not the same as Ocon and Perez racing the VJM11.

 

I don’t know if it says something for the atrocious state of the cretins who run the sport that this falls only somewhere in the middle.



#126 kosmos

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 14:55

Don't like the idea, just hope is not the same guy picking this extra point race after race. Maybe this is a crazy idea but if they have to do it, don't allow the guys in the podium to get this extra point, just from 4th to 10th.



#127 ensign14

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 14:56

It was crucial to the outcome in 1958, when Mike Hawthorn pipped Stirling Moss to the title.

 

 

WHICH LITERALLY EVERYONE WHO KNOWS ABOUT IT THINKS IS THE BIGGEST TRAVESTY OF JUSTICE SINCE PILATE

 

HOW IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS HOLY IS THIS A POSSIBLE JUSTIFICATION



#128 maximilian

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 14:57

Useless if it's a top-10 thing. Would have been fun to see someone make a glory run late in the race, once they are well out of points contention.

 

This way, it's just an extra point for Kimi Raikkonen. :lol: 



#129 pdac

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 14:59

No I'm not. I'm venting my frustration that every single little thing that happens in F1, no matter how insignificant, get's complained about to the death before it's even been put to the test.

 

Fair enough. I guess it can be a bit of a stuck record. In the same way as it's possible to dismiss out of hand the "return to the old days" crowd without considering the specifics, it's equally easy to dismiss out of hand the "modern times, modern ways" crowd without considering the specifics.



#130 Paco

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 15:01

I could this getting ridiculous fast... fastest lap being 3-4-5-6 seconds faster then average lap pace by the leaders.. will show how much thendetune during the face and rob us of real action and performance..

#131 Paco

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 15:02

I would rather a point for fastest quali 2... so drivers are pushing all through qualifying even if they can’t get q3 pole..but fastest on race compound

Edited by Paco, 08 March 2019 - 15:02.


#132 PayasYouRace

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 15:05

WHICH LITERALLY EVERYONE WHO KNOWS ABOUT IT THINKS IS THE BIGGEST TRAVESTY OF JUSTICE SINCE PILATE
 
HOW IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS HOLY IS THIS A POSSIBLE JUSTIFICATION


No need to shout.

Anyway, in 1958, even setting fastest lap in Morocco didn’t give Stirling the title because Ferrari did a team orders swap to give Mike the points he needed.

#133 w1Y

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 15:10

I dont like it but people saying other sports dont do it are wrong. Rugby awards bonus points for having 5 or more tries or losing but finishing within 7 points.

Formula 1 needs to get some balls.

Formula e is the road relevance formula. Formula 1 should be loud, fast, machines that can overtake. A spectacle. And i dont say that out of nostalgia. Formula 1 needs an identity and at rhe moment its half way house.

Lets stop pissing around with pts for fastest laps.

Edited by w1Y, 08 March 2019 - 15:17.


#134 Fonzey

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 15:24

I like it, in fact I wouldn't be too upset if it awarded a little bit more.

 

Maybe 1point awarded if you're P6-10

2 point awarded if you're P4-5

3 points awarded if you're in a podium position

 

In two-horse race seasons it would actually encourage the front runners to keep their engines turned up and keep tit for tatting till' the end of a race which would be great, even if there's no real overtake opportunity.

 

It seems my opinion is controversial, but actually quite excited for this.



#135 Seanspeed

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 15:27

My problem is that pace at the end of the race, where the cars are lightest on fuel and where these fastest laps are gonna happen, is often determined by strategy.  Where you pitted before is going to determine your potential for being able to put in a fast time in the end.  I get the notion of having a sort of end-race 'shootout' between the top guys to get the extra point, instead of just cruising in position at the end, but it's just not gonna be very representative and could even be a bit of a punishment on what otherwise might be a good strategy(for the thing that matters - finishing as high as possible).  Basically, it could simply be stupid luck to be in a position to properly fight for this extra point(or not).  



#136 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 15:30

My problem is that pace at the end of the race, where the cars are lightest on fuel and where these fastest laps are gonna happen, is often determined by strategy. Where you pitted before is going to determine your potential for being able to put in a fast time in the end. I get the notion of having a sort of end-race 'shootout' between the top guys to get the extra point, instead of just cruising in position at the end, but it's just not gonna be very representative and could even be a bit of a punishment on what otherwise might be a good strategy(for the thing that matters - finishing as high as possible). Basically, it could simply be stupid luck to be in a position to properly fight for this extra point(or not).


Which is why 9/10 it will go to whoever is 5th or 6th, depending on gaps back to the midfield.

#137 Jovanotti

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 15:31

F1 sure loves a last moment rule change, that's for sure...but why not, this has been part of F1 for a long time and could spice things up a bit towards the end of the race. I guess most teams at the back end of the grid will regularly give it a shot.



#138 PlatenGlass

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 15:39

I dont like it but people saying other sports dont do it are wrong. Rugby awards bonus points for having 5 or more tries or losing but finishing within 7 points.

Formula 1 needs to get some balls.

Would the ball game element be part of the race or just qualifying?

#139 messy

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 15:41

I'm not against this - but I feel it would make way more sense if this came alongside, say, 3 points for pole position. 

 

Awarding a point for a FL but not pole I find strange. It's both or not at all, surely? 



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#140 Seanspeed

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 15:42

Which is why 9/10 it will go to whoever is 5th or 6th, depending on gaps back to the midfield.

Yea, I can definitely see it playing out like that.  Lots of Red Bull fastest laps....



#141 aray

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 15:43

They are opening Pandora's box. :lol:



#142 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 15:48

If could be all of the drivers would have no issue with it, not something I think is needed at all, but having fastest lap only count for some is stupid, thus a true Liberty / FIA / Teams decision.

 

:cool:



#143 ensign14

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 15:53

No need to shout.

Anyway, in 1958, even setting fastest lap in Morocco didn’t give Stirling the title because Ferrari did a team orders swap to give Mike the points he needed.

 

That wasn't the problem.  The problem was Portugal, when Moss was out front cruising with nearly a lap advantage, and Hawthorn suddenly bombed in a fastest lap.  Moss could have beaten it, had he known...that was a 2 point swing against him,
 



#144 NixxxoN

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 15:56

Nonsense descision. Fastest single lap is meaningless in F1 races.

Edited by NixxxoN, 08 March 2019 - 15:57.


#145 Marklar

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 15:57

I'm not against this - but I feel it would make way more sense if this came alongside, say, 3 points for pole position. 

 

Awarding a point for a FL but not pole I find strange. It's both or not at all, surely? 

Cause apparently it could mean that the championship could be decided on a saturday which is such an silly reasoning.



#146 Maxioos

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 16:10

I've read it correctly. I said steal a point, not gain a point.
 
If P6 has fastest lap, he has an extra point.
 
Pit in P11, get fastest lap, you 'steal' the point from P6 guy. You don't gain one yourself.
 
Right?


You are correct, and problem is, when Mercedes or Ferrari have that one point, RBR can let STR steal that point in theory.

#147 cheekybru

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 16:11

My mate just messaged me about this and I was like

"Erm...ok...could be fun I guess...."

And he's like "only for top ten finishers though"

And suddenly I'm there hating the rule makers again

#148 Pitlane

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 16:12

Bah, dont know what to think about it really. First thing that comes into mind is, might aswell give that point to the one getting pole instead. There, done. Fastest lap no BS trickery.



#149 Fonzey

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 16:13

Cause apparently it could mean that the championship could be decided on a saturday which is such an silly reasoning.

 

...and also, rewarding pole is just double dipping on the reward. Nobody is aiming for "P2-P10" in Q3 so adding additional reward doesn't do much, other than maybe protect fast drivers from reliability issues during races by mitigating the damage somewhat of a retirement when they start at the front. 

 

By rewarding FL, you're encouraging drivers (specifically the top three) to do something they wouldn't ordinarily do such as pump in laps at the end of the race. Typically races at the front are decide after the final set of stops, and this gives us something to watch/get excited by a bit. The reason I suggested rewarding it more a few posts ago is that I'm not sure 1 point would be enough for a front runner to risk cranking the engine up.



#150 TomNokoe

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 16:13

Yea, I can definitely see it playing out like that. Lots of Red Bull fastest laps....

The driver in 6th will pit at the end of the antepenultimate lap.

Outlap is the penultimate lap.

Fastest lap is the final lap.

This leaves no time for the top 5 to react.

Edited by TomNokoe, 08 March 2019 - 16:13.