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Red Bull suggest they might pull out over 2021 rules: empty threats? [Edited]


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#1 Fatgadget

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 20:39

https://www.autospor...ll-exit-threats

 

That is tantamount to bringing the sport  into disrepute surely?

 

 Just leave already and don't slam the door on your way out  is my take.  No one is indispensable.



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#2 Beri

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 21:06

Not even Ferrari?

#3 AlexPrime

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 21:07

https://www.autospor...ll-exit-threats

 

That is tantamount to bringing the sport  into disrepute surely?

 

 

No.



#4 Ben1445

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 21:08

F1 wouldn't be F1 without exit threats that never materialise... 


Edited by Ben1445, 13 March 2019 - 21:12.


#5 NorthEast

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 21:16

Empty threats... have you never heard of a chap called Bernie Ecclestone? 



#6 P123

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 21:16

As ever, they are just after another bung like the rest of them. The FIA should make the rules and the lot of them can take it or leave it.

Red Bull playing the poor little boy under threat from manufacturers is a bit rich give the current spending war in F1 was started by them, via a Bernie bung and whilst ignoring the RRA which others were adhering to and helped them along to a period of domination. The existence of satellite teams, which they have, and entities such as Red Bull Technologies, is why a cost cap will never work and like FFP in football be massively open to abuse. They are part of the problem, however much they like to portray themselves as needing protected.

#7 GrumpyYoungMan

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 21:23

Here we go again Red Bull throwing its dummy and toys out the
pram!

I wish they would just jog on!

#8 Clatter

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 21:45

Here we go again Red Bull throwing its dummy and toys out the
pram!

I wish they would just jog on!

So they are interviewed and answer some questions. Looks to me that the question asked was if RB could leave and that the headline and way it is presented is misleading. I don't see that as throwing their toys out of the pram at all.

#9 pdac

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 21:46

You do have to wonder whether any of these manufacturers who are supposedly 'interested' in joining F1 might consider it more if they knew that other teams were not getting anymore from FOM than they would be. Perhaps if Red Bull or Ferrari or any of the other teams that get extra money quit as a result of their bonuses being removed, maybe there may be others interested in taking their place.



#10 pdac

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 21:48

So they are interviewed and answer some questions. Looks to me that the question asked was if RB could leave and that the headline and way it is presented is misleading. I don't see that as throwing their toys out of the pram at all.

 

But, really, would they answer such a question unless they wanted to stir things up? I'm sure if it were Toto he'd just give some dismissive answer like "we'll have to see".



#11 ExFlagMan

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 21:53

Didn't realise Red Bull had hired some of the recent Ferrari 'rejects'.



#12 Neno

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 21:56

Hope so. F1 will be better sport. 



#13 Clatter

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 22:04

But, really, would they answer such a question unless they wanted to stir things up? I'm sure if it were Toto he'd just give some dismissive answer like "we'll have to see".

 


And you prefer a wishy washy answer rather than a proper answer?

#14 Jbleroi

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 22:23

F@@$k me F1 almost looks like politics..... ;)
Patently waiting for the Ferrari pull out messages

#15 Nathan

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 22:25

So Red Bull folds, Max goes to Ferrari or Merc, almost all the top dog designers/mechanics go elsewhere within F1 and 5 years later RBR was just another team.

 

I use to argue their importance because they did the most marketing for the sport, but Liberty seems to have a good idea how to do that.

 

If they want to sell TR and convert Milton Keynes into an LM factory, have at it.  I don't see how they get a better ROI than they are now considering how little Red Bull GMBH actually has to spend, and can't imagine how many seasons worth of real Red Bull money would have to go into culling 1000+ people and shuttering such a large capital infrastructure.

 

I do wish someone would ask their drivers and C. Horner what it's like working for a company always threatening to shut its doors.


Edited by Nathan, 13 March 2019 - 22:27.


#16 Clatter

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 22:28

So Red Bull folds, Max goes to Ferrari or Merc, almost all the top dog designers/mechanics go elsewhere within F1 and 5 years later RBR was just another team.

 

I use to argue their importance because they did the most marketing for the sport, but Liberty seems to have a good idea how to do that.

 

If they want to sell TR and convert Milton Keynes into an LM factory, have at it.

 

I do wish someone would ask their drivers and C. Horner what it's like working for a company always threatening to shut its doors.

 


Why not ask the Ferrari guys? Their team is quite happy issuing threats every so often.

#17 stewie

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 22:31

F1 existed before Red Bull, it can exist without them.

#18 EndlessMotion

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 22:34

It's no longer remotely interesting when a team says they might be forced to pull out of the sport, aside from when it's due to financial struggles. The sport has always been run in an improper way and it's always muddled through with the teams that stay happy to be there. The threats don't even carry any weight when it's from a team like Red Bull. Ferrari cry wolf all the time and they're probably the only team on the grid you could argue it would really damage the sport greatly if they were to leave, which they won't any time soon.

 

Of course the rule makers should hurry up and let the teams know what the score is for 2021, but the old quit threats are rather yawn worthy these days.



#19 ExEd

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 22:40

"It needs to be exciting, it needs to be cost effective, the racing's got to be great, and we need to be able to play on an equal and level playing field with OEM and manufacturer teams.+

By exciting he means what ? Not very clear...I think Lewis v Vettel is exciting is it not?

Equal and level playing field? As in everyone to have the same B teams to mule? 

Wait ,i know. He means level field at the top (3) ,the rest who tf cares... :rotfl:

 

 

Anyway 

Just leave Max to a winning car/team and off you go, shut the door on the way out please.



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#20 Fatgadget

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 22:48

F1 wouldn't be F1 without exit threats that never materialise... 

In light of the demise Williams is in. That is my context.



#21 Nathan

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 22:49

Why not ask the Ferrari guys? Their team is quite happy issuing threats every so often.

 

Because the Ferrari guys would laugh.  Not only because of the notion but because both the FIA and FOM would near move heaven and Earth to prevent that. For Red Bull? Not so sure.



#22 Sterzo

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 23:06

So they are interviewed and answer some questions. Looks to me that the question asked was if RB could leave and that the headline and way it is presented is misleading. I don't see that as throwing their toys out of the pram at all.

Precisely. From the story:-

 

'Horner admits that Red Bull boss Dietrich Mateschitz could pull the plug if he's not happy with the shape of F1 in 2021.

Horner told Autosport: "Absolutely. And that's his right."'

 

One of those "open your mouth and I'll shove some words in it" stories.



#23 MikeV1987

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 23:16

Sounds like another journalist trying to make something out of nothing here. It must be a slow part of the week for Autosport.



#24 w1Y

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 23:21

So if they do I assume they will sell their assets? Great team to buy for a big manufacturer.

I still find it fascinating that their B team turned up with the new aero regs with a car which looked very much like a merc, with suspension set ups etc and this year they turn up with a solution like ferraris.

If people dont believe red bull are using their B team as an advantage then i dont know what to say.

They started the massive cost hikes, they didnt mind dominating. But they dont seem to like it the way it is now they arent.

Edited by w1Y, 13 March 2019 - 23:25.


#25 johnmhinds

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 23:25

The controlling share holder has the final say on what his company does????

I’m so shocked!!!

#26 pup

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 23:31

I'm curious what the loss to F1 would be if RB left.  Another team would take their place, personnel would shuffle around, and some other team would take their position on the grid.  Worst case, Horner becomes a commentator, which is the real threat.


Edited by pup, 14 March 2019 - 17:11.


#27 Melbourne Park

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 23:42

Its rubbish because the half owner of Red Bull has linked F1 to the phenomenal success of the RB drink.

 

However - I reckon the continuing degradation of free to air coverage of F1 must threaten all those who are there for marketing to the common person reasons. RBR is one of those. 

 

The FIA could have changed the engine access rules too - just rule that the manufactures have to be able to supply 30 engines a year. And do not allow discrimination against competitors who may beat their own team. The allow the FIA to organise who gets which engine. Do it in the mid year Euro summer break, make it a big event. The best engine manufacturer will enjoy the best publicity too. 


Edited by Melbourne Park, 13 March 2019 - 23:43.


#28 StanBarrett2

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 23:51

F1 existed before Red Bull, it can exist without them.

Red Bull can exist without F1, they are active in plenty of other stuff

 

Go ahead Dieter pull out 4 cars.............hear the loud mouths croak



#29 Gambelli

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 00:24

I sometimes wonder how long some people have been following F1 and if the Red Bull angst is just from jaded Vettel haters.

 

Red Bull have put so much into F1 for 25 years now.

 

What would have been the future for Jaguar and Minardi without Red Bull money?  I remember at the time worrying, particularly for Minardi

 

Oh, and Austria?  A track they saved.  Not my favourite, but still a well funded and well run event.

 

Sure Red Bull have some employees that can be tossers at times, Helmut and Christian... 2 people...... 2 whole people out of over 1000 that the 2 teams combined hire.  DM himself has always just been a fan in the background pouring in his company's own coin.

 

How many existing sponsors pre date Red Bull pray tell?

 

Yet so many people here wish they'd take their money, teams, and nick off, thats just crazy talk......

 

Every team has people in it that make you cringe, Cyril, Toto, Christian, even the entertaining Gunther sometimes makes you shake your head, as does any team manager who thinks their driver is in the right when clearly not. 

 

Lastly, read the article again, read the quotes carefully. clearly Christian was asked if Redbull 'could' pull out if 2021 isn't satisfactorily resolved soon.  What is he supposed to say? 'Nope, never, we are here forever no matter what the terms or no matter what the cost'  What would you say if someone came to your work and said 'We are redefining your job, we cant guarantee workload, work type, or how much you'll even be paid, we might halve your pay and make you do an extra 15 hours a week cleaning the office, would you be okay with that?'  what would you say?  You'd say not a chance, if that happens I'll leave......



#30 SennasCat

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 02:58

RedBull want to be Ferrari when they grow up, holding the sport to ransom with empty threats to quit if they don't get their own way. It's getting old.



#31 aray

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 03:40

Their exit threats are like broken records. :rolleyes:



#32 dbltop

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 04:14

GO! BEGONE! Sick and tired of these bastards trying to be above the sport. The FIA should tell Marko and crew to go pound salt!



#33 Sardukar

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 04:21

As ever, they are just after another bung like the rest of them. The FIA should make the rules and the lot of them can take it or leave it.

Red Bull playing the poor little boy under threat from manufacturers is a bit rich give the current spending war in F1 was started by them, via a Bernie bung and whilst ignoring the RRA which others were adhering to and helped them along to a period of domination. The existence of satellite teams, which they have, and entities such as Red Bull Technologies, is why a cost cap will never work and like FFP in football be massively open to abuse. They are part of the problem, however much they like to portray themselves as needing protected.

 

Teams should have a say in where they would like the direction of the category to go, but that's it. They shouldn't have anything to do with the rule making at all.



#34 Flasheart

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 04:24

Horner and Marko do this every couple of years, thinking they are master negotiators. I’d fall over sideways if it actually comes to fruition. Perhaps not completely idle threats, but not far from it.

#35 pitlanepalpatine

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 04:50

GO! BEGONE! Sick and tired of these bastards trying to be above the sport. The FIA should tell Marko and crew to go pound salt!

 

As can be told from the wording of the response received Horner didn't go looking for a journalist to say this. Some journo went to him with some idiotic hypothetical "So Christian, if Liberty requires that you fly around in electric blimps with Monster plastered over the side, will you stick around?" to which Horner says "**** no, we'll be leaving then", next day "Horner states that Red Bull will be leaving when queried on F1 future - in relation to questions on Liberties statement that in future race winners will get ponies Christian Horner has stated that  "**** no, we'll be leaving then"

 

Horner just made it clear that Red Bull, like the other teams can pull out if they get offered a shitty deal and that it's annoying it still hasn't been sorted. Nothing to see here, move along.



#36 DS27

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 07:05

I sometimes wonder how long some people have been following F1 and if the Red Bull angst is just from jaded Vettel haters.

 

Red Bull have put so much into F1 for 25 years now.

 

What would have been the future for Jaguar and Minardi without Red Bull money?  I remember at the time worrying, particularly for Minardi

 

Oh, and Austria?  A track they saved.  Not my favourite, but still a well funded and well run event.

 

Sure Red Bull have some employees that can be tossers at times, Helmut and Christian... 2 people...... 2 whole people out of over 1000 that the 2 teams combined hire.  DM himself has always just been a fan in the background pouring in his company's own coin.

 

How many existing sponsors pre date Red Bull pray tell?

 

Yet so many people here wish they'd take their money, teams, and nick off, thats just crazy talk......

 

Every team has people in it that make you cringe, Cyril, Toto, Christian, even the entertaining Gunther sometimes makes you shake your head, as does any team manager who thinks their driver is in the right when clearly not. 

 

Lastly, read the article again, read the quotes carefully. clearly Christian was asked if Redbull 'could' pull out if 2021 isn't satisfactorily resolved soon.  What is he supposed to say? 'Nope, never, we are here forever no matter what the terms or no matter what the cost'  What would you say if someone came to your work and said 'We are redefining your job, we cant guarantee workload, work type, or how much you'll even be paid, we might halve your pay and make you do an extra 15 hours a week cleaning the office, would you be okay with that?'  what would you say?  You'd say not a chance, if that happens I'll leave......

 

 

Don't be coming in here talking common sense, when there's knee-jerk reactions to be voiced by people who want to see 16 cars on the grid   :lol:



#37 GrumpyYoungMan

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 07:12

You do have to wonder whether any of these manufacturers who are supposedly 'interested' in joining F1 might consider it more if they knew that other teams were not getting anymore from FOM than they would be. Perhaps if Red Bull or Ferrari or any of the other teams that get extra money quit as a result of their bonuses being removed, maybe there may be others interested in taking their place.

But doesn’t Manchester United receive more money than say Spurs? (As an example) so what’s wrong with Ferrari or Mercedes getting more than say Renault?

Edited by GrumpyYoungMan, 14 March 2019 - 11:30.


#38 Anderis

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 07:23

But doesn’t Manchester Unitws receive more money than say Spurs? (As an example) so what’s wrong with Ferrari or Mercedes getting more than say Renault?

Yeah, Manchester United received more money than Spurs for 2017/2018 season. Roughly 3.7% more.
Official-Premier-League-Prize-Money-2017
If F1 had similar prize money distribution (where the poorest team still gets around 2/3 of what the richest gets), the life of midfield and backmarkers would be much easier, they could maintain more independence from big teams and run much closer to them. For me, that would make it better and more attractive to watch.


Edited by Anderis, 14 March 2019 - 07:27.


#39 Maxioos

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 07:57

Because the Ferrari guys would laugh.  Not only because of the notion but because both the FIA and FOM would near move heaven and Earth to prevent that. For Red Bull? Not so sure.

 

Neh, -4 cars, what's the deal right. Just have 16 on the grid, no problem at all.



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#40 CharlesChornley

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 08:29

GO! BEGONE! Sick and tired of these bastards trying to be above the sport. The FIA should tell Marko and crew to go pound salt!

 

Do you even hear yourself? Mateschitz has pounded money in to a sport that he had no chance of winning for the last 5 years. His team literally couldn't make up the difference to competitors no matter what he did. But still he continued to spend money. Money that went in to the sport he had zero chance of winning. On top of that whilst his teams weren't winning he went on spending even more money showcasing formula 1 cars around the globe, in parts of the world that have no access to formula 1. 

 

Then he says that if he can't get what HE wants from the sport he'll leave and you call him a bastard for it. Some of the people on here are borderline mental.

 

There are over 1000 people working in Milton Keynes who have families to support and lives to live. But you just wish we would all F off. 

 

Unreal.



#41 McLobby

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 08:54

I don't understand this, they'll probably have the best chassis again after 2021 and they seem to believe in Honda becoming as good as Ferrari and Merc? So what's their problem?



#42 Maxioos

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 09:31

I don't understand this, they'll probably have the best chassis again after 2021 and they seem to believe in Honda becoming as good as Ferrari and Merc? So what's their problem?

 

It's not like (even if they are good) they can force Honda to stay if Honda would desire to leave. Just one of the many options.



#43 SenorSjon

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 09:39

Not even Ferrari?

 

It is early year, give it time. Usually Ferrari threats are halfway during the season.



#44 GrumpyYoungMan

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 11:31

Yeah, Manchester United received more money than Spurs for 2017/2018 season. Roughly 3.7% more.
Official-Premier-League-Prize-Money-2017
If F1 had similar prize money distribution (where the poorest team still gets around 2/3 of what the richest gets), the life of midfield and backmarkers would be much easier, they could maintain more independence from big teams and run much closer to them. For me, that would make it better and more attractive to watch.

I’m not against a fairer revenue distribution - but I am against all teams having the same basic with no additional bonuses

#45 muramasa

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 12:02

https://www.autospor...ll-exit-threats

 

That is tantamount to bringing the sport  into disrepute surely?

 

 Just leave already and don't slam the door on your way out  is my take.  No one is indispensable.

I agree that if they want to leave they can leave good riddance but "bring the sport into desrepute" is cringy. Any sport and nation that adopts this policy is pathetic and that's one of the reasons I never trust and enjoy Indycar fully, how criticism never come up in some sports and regime is weird and freigtening. I want to live in the kind of society where anyone is free to criticize and complain about anything and each other, on equal terms and without any sort of anxiety, fear and threat.


Edited by muramasa, 14 March 2019 - 12:03.


#46 pup

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 13:06

So from the arguments, it seems like RBs sole benefit to the sport is the money they're spending.  Which of course makes sense, since the only reason they'd leave is if the FIA actually finds a way to negate that advantage.



#47 pdac

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 14:54

But doesn’t Manchester United receive more money than say Spurs? (As an example) so what’s wrong with Ferrari or Mercedes getting more than say Renault?

 

Because this is not Manchester United or Spurs and this is not football. And just because Manchester United get more money that Spurs still does not mean that it's correct that they do.



#48 Jon83

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 14:58

Tabloid stuff in the OP.



#49 SCUDmissile

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 14:58

But doesn’t Manchester United receive more money than say Spurs? (As an example) so what’s wrong with Ferrari or Mercedes getting more than say Renault?


Using the PL actually takes away from your point.

The PL has the most equal mo EU distribution of all major European leagues. Part of the reason it's the most competitive, and why clubs like Leicester can outcompete the top clubs of France, Germany etc for players.

The PL shows how equal distribution of revenues can be extremely successful and healthy for the sport.

#50 pdac

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 14:59

Do you even hear yourself? Mateschitz has pounded money in to a sport that he had no chance of winning for the last 5 years. His team literally couldn't make up the difference to competitors no matter what he did. But still he continued to spend money. Money that went in to the sport he had zero chance of winning. On top of that whilst his teams weren't winning he went on spending even more money showcasing formula 1 cars around the globe, in parts of the world that have no access to formula 1. 

 

Then he says that if he can't get what HE wants from the sport he'll leave and you call him a bastard for it. Some of the people on here are borderline mental.

 

There are over 1000 people working in Milton Keynes who have families to support and lives to live. But you just wish we would all F off. 

 

Unreal.

 

But where does that money come from? Could it be that a great chunk of it comes from FOM and, if he didn't get it, perhaps it would go to other teams who could employ some of the 1000 people?  Maybe there's no chance of winning in F1, but maybe he wins elsewhere as a  result of being in F1 - perhaps?

 

Oh, welcome to the forum, BTW.


Edited by pdac, 14 March 2019 - 15:00.