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Mercedes AMG F1 Team Thread (drivers, management, rumours and gossip!)


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#5251 BUFFY

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 21:59

I don’t think Verstappen said 3-4 people would beat Hamilton in a Mercedes, but that he thinks 3-4 people are capable of doing the same as Hamilton did in the Mercedes had they been in his position.

Which 3-4 would beat a near equal Ferrari in 2017?  Which 3-4 would beat a Ferrari arguably better than Merc in 2018?


Edited by BUFFY, 20 August 2019 - 22:11.


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#5252 beachdrifter

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 22:26

Which 3-4 would beat a near equal Ferrari in 2017?  Which 3-4 would beat a Ferrari arguably better than Merc in 2018?

 

Lewis is pretty much in a category of his own. The stronger the opponent, the more he rises to the challenge in recent years. Or even in his rookie season, where he outqualified and finished the season ahead of what was then thought to be the best F1 driver on the grid. How unique is that?

 

That's very different from the other drivers who are grabbing opportunities presented to them. Lewis will take those too, but that's not what makes him special.



#5253 baddog

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 23:46

Which 3-4 would beat a near equal Ferrari in 2017?  Which 3-4 would beat a Ferrari arguably better than Merc in 2018?

 

Its all sufficiently 'arguable' (a euphemism for 'just opinion') that you can easily suggest 3-4 who might have achieved the results Lewis has at Merc. Noone will ever know if they would but its not that hard is it?



#5254 Marklar

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 05:14

Which 3-4 would beat a near equal Ferrari in 2017? Which 3-4 would beat a Ferrari arguably better than Merc in 2018?

Well, in theory you can be up to 87 points worse than Lewis to achieve the same as him in 2018. Given how much Vettel and Ferrari screwed up that year I definitely can see at least Max and Alonso pulling it off, albeit with probably a lesser margin. Whether Max actually means that is a different question though.

As mentioned earlier, to a large extent it's just **** talking. In October he already said how a couple of drivers including Vettel could do the same in the Merc. Few weeks earlier - before Vettel did most of his mistakes - he trashed Vettel for not leading despite Ferrari being clearly quicker...

#5255 monolulu

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 09:13

Does it?  I would disagree.  I think luck can play a big part in that.


Luck? I’m not so sure. Mercedes were planning a long way ahead for the hybrid era & targeted Lewis as the final piece of the puzzle. Brawn & Niki knew what calibre of driver they had in their sights.

#5256 shure

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 09:31

Well which goes back to the main debate here from what Max said in his article, whilst others may be able to win in the Mercedes very few could possibly win with Hamilton alongside them in the same car. From your post above you have now narrowed it down to 2 names (Alonso and Max)  of which one is not currently a driver on the grid (besides they have gone up against each other in the same equipment in the past and we all know how that went) this has now gone down from about 4 drivers to namely 1, namely Max. 
 
I think this was the point most Hamilton fans were trying to point out. :)

only I haven’t narrowed anything down. I just gave two - very obvious - examples to answer a post about doubt.

And we seem to have moved into a strawman argument from Max’s perspective since the interview that provoked so much outrage didn’t mention who could have beaten Hamilton, just who might have replicated his results if they had been in the Merc instead.

#5257 shure

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 09:34

Luck? I’m not so sure. Mercedes were planning a long way ahead for the hybrid era & targeted Lewis as the final piece of the puzzle. Brawn & Niki knew what calibre of driver they had in their sights.

so did McLaren when they targeted Alonso, but it wasn’t the driver’s input that caused the project to fail in the same way the reverse wasn’t true for Mercedes. The drivers believe what the engineers tell them

#5258 Hela

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 10:32

only I haven’t narrowed anything down. I just gave two - very obvious - examples to answer a post about doubt.

And we seem to have moved into a strawman argument from Max’s perspective since the interview that provoked so much outrage didn’t mention who could have beaten Hamilton, just who might have replicated his results if they had been in the Merc instead.

 

For starters I think the article being referenced mentioned drivers currently on the grid so that discounts Alonso. 

 

Also you are right that there are others who simply could win in the Mercedes if they had access to drive the car and maybe 3 or so others could possibly win the wdc. I guess this is just the same as there possibly could be at least 4 or 5 others during the Schumacher years that would have also done what Michael did or  Vettel during the Redbull years. so really their achievements are not that special since it could also be replicated by others on the grid at the time.

 

I totally agree with you that others could possibly replicate winning in the Mercedes  just as much as there were others that could simply have done more had they the chance to drive Vettels Redbull of 2010 onwards and Schumachers Ferrari of the early 2000s. 

 

:)

 

glad we cleared that up



#5259 Hela

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 10:37

so did McLaren when they targeted Alonso, but it wasn’t the driver’s input that caused the project to fail in the same way the reverse wasn’t true for Mercedes. The drivers believe what the engineers tell them

 

Well that sheds more light on the usual narrative that  Senna, Vettel and Schumacher  all had something to do with their era's domination when in fact they all just lucked on to it :)


Edited by Hela, 21 August 2019 - 10:38.


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#5260 shure

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 12:49

Well that sheds more light on the usual narrative that  Senna, Vettel and Schumacher  all had something to do with their era's domination when in fact they all just lucked on to it :)

quite a leap there to go from the original point about a top driver being partly defined by the moves he makes and putting everything down to luck?

#5261 shure

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 12:56

For starters I think the article being referenced mentioned drivers currently on the grid so that discounts Alonso. 
 
Also you are right that there are others who simply could win in the Mercedes if they had access to drive the car and maybe 3 or so others could possibly win the wdc. I guess this is just the same as there possibly could be at least 4 or 5 others during the Schumacher years that would have also done what Michael did or  Vettel during the Redbull years. so really their achievements are not that special since it could also be replicated by others on the grid at the time.
 
I totally agree with you that others could possibly replicate winning in the Mercedes  just as much as there were others that could simply have done more had they the chance to drive Vettels Redbull of 2010 onwards and Schumachers Ferrari of the early 2000s. 
 
:
 
glad we cleared that up

Max mentions Alonso himself, so unclear why we should discount him?

As to the rest, I’m not entirely clear what point you are making. Max was clearly referencing the Mercedes being the best car, so if you think that applies to other eras then yes, that would also make sense. You might have a case for the Red Bull, but I think Schumacher did enough in lesser cars to mitigate that.

What exactly did we need to clear up? My point is only that there’s no need for all the angst and personal attacks simply because Max voiced an opinion that involved Hamilton, so if you agree with that then we’re all good

#5262 gillesfan76

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 13:12

Yeah I'd say you'd be hard pressed to find someone who really "doubts" Hamilton.  I think anyone who doesn't rate him can't have been watching F1 that closely.  The man is a top talent.

 

Having said that, I think it's legitimate to have a conversation about just how good he actually is, which is where the "doubts," if that's even the right word, may appear.  As in, is he the best or one of the best?  Is he better than Alonso?  Or Max?  So doubts not as to whether he's a great driver, but how great

 

Or Max? I'm really not sure what some are wondering is the legitimate question. Is Max potentially driving better than Lewis right now? Yes, potentially. That is a legitimate question.

 

Is Max a better driver than Lewis? No that's not a legitimate question, at all. A year ago he was crashing in every race. He has improved notably and driving very well and consistent right now but the sample size is way too small. On the other hand, Lewis is a 5 x WDC setting the record books on fire. Is Max a better driver than Vettel? That's not a legitimate question either.

 

We can't look at narrow snapshots of a driver's performance and re-write everything.

 

If Kyrgios beats Federer in a match, we would applaud his performance and say he played better in that match. Nobody is going to ask the question whether he's a better tennis player than Federer. Not until he came close to amassing the same sort of results, over such significant period of time, with such consistency, would that even come close to being a legitimate question.

 

Max is very promising and he might even fulfil that promise. But right now he's barely achieved more than a drop in the pond. I'm neither belittling his achievements or downplaying his potential.

 

F1 fans are a funny bunch.


Edited by gillesfan76, 21 August 2019 - 13:13.


#5263 Garndell

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 14:55

My response to Max's recent comments... yea but Lewis would have won in Hungary driving the RBR simply by being better on the tyres. :rotfl: Best way to tackle the arrogance is to push past it and go for his ego.

 

Summer break is making me impatient for driver news on the second seat. :cry:



#5264 Hela

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 15:36

Or Max? I'm really not sure what some are wondering is the legitimate question. Is Max potentially driving better than Lewis right now? Yes, potentially. That is a legitimate question.

 

Is Max a better driver than Lewis? No that's not a legitimate question, at all. A year ago he was crashing in every race. He has improved notably and driving very well and consistent right now but the sample size is way too small. On the other hand, Lewis is a 5 x WDC setting the record books on fire. Is Max a better driver than Vettel? That's not a legitimate question either.

 

We can't look at narrow snapshots of a driver's performance and re-write everything.

 

If Kyrgios beats Federer in a match, we would applaud his performance and say he played better in that match. Nobody is going to ask the question whether he's a better tennis player than Federer. Not until he came close to amassing the same sort of results, over such significant period of time, with such consistency, would that even come close to being a legitimate question.

 

Max is very promising and he might even fulfil that promise. But right now he's barely achieved more than a drop in the pond. I'm neither belittling his achievements or downplaying his potential.

 

F1 fans are a funny bunch.

 

Well said..... :up:



#5265 beachdrifter

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 15:43

Summer break is making me impatient for driver news on the second seat. :cry:

 

Autobild has reported they're close to a 2-year deal with Renault (Ocon going there), and Bottas staying for at least another 30 races as expected.



#5266 beachdrifter

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 16:40

2019 laps led (after 12/21 races): 

 

Lewis - 351

Leclerc - 124

Bottas - 103



#5267 CountDooku

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 17:33

There will always be haters gunning for the best. Whether it's fans of other drivers, the other drivers themselves, the media, etc etc. If you are the best you will be a target.

 

To be honest, this makes me HAPPY! Can you guys remember 2009 where we were left disappointed after the promise of 07 and 08? Can you remember 2011 when Vettel was dominating, Lewis was crashing and all seemed lost? Can you remember Mr Hindsight? Can you remember the smoking car in Singapore? Can you remember the tyres of Barcelona 2013? I can. I can remember all of it, when Lewis was doomed to never win another championship.  :cry:

 

BUT - I stuck with it, and infinitely more importantly, Lewis stuck with it and has given his fans many years of unbridled JOY to compensate for the earlier heartache. He has fed us incredible amounts of GOAT and now I am sated. He's well on the way to smashing all records and I'm happy and content to hear others chat s**t because I couldn't have asked for a better driver to support, as a person and as a racer. Max can suck it!  :clap:



#5268 shure

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 17:51

Or Max? I'm really not sure what some are wondering is the legitimate question. Is Max potentially driving better than Lewis right now? Yes, potentially. That is a legitimate question.

 

Is Max a better driver than Lewis? No that's not a legitimate question, at all. A year ago he was crashing in every race. He has improved notably and driving very well and consistent right now but the sample size is way too small. On the other hand, Lewis is a 5 x WDC setting the record books on fire. Is Max a better driver than Vettel? That's not a legitimate question either.

 

We can't look at narrow snapshots of a driver's performance and re-write everything.

 

If Kyrgios beats Federer in a match, we would applaud his performance and say he played better in that match. Nobody is going to ask the question whether he's a better tennis player than Federer. Not until he came close to amassing the same sort of results, over such significant period of time, with such consistency, would that even come close to being a legitimate question.

 

Max is very promising and he might even fulfil that promise. But right now he's barely achieved more than a drop in the pond. I'm neither belittling his achievements or downplaying his potential.

 

F1 fans are a funny bunch.

I disagree.  I think it's perfectly legitimate to ask the question.  I don't think it's an easy one to answer but I don't think people shouldn't be allowed to ask it in the first place.

 

Hypothetically, if the verdict is that Max is better than Lewis now then it's not a stretch to argue that means he might be better than Lewis overall.  It all depends on whether you think Lewis is driving at his best now, or whether you think Lewis has driven better in the past.

 

I think you are confusing better with more successful.  There's no argument there.  But better driver is not exactly hard science anyway so I don't see why people can't debate it.  Some people take things like this far too seriously but I don't see the harm in it.



#5269 ExEd

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 18:39

I disagree.  I think it's perfectly legitimate to ask the question.  I don't think it's an easy one to answer but I don't think people shouldn't be allowed to ask it in the first place.

 

 

Oh but it's very, very easy to answer... 



#5270 TomNokoe

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 19:02

jesus christ

2007-2010 / alonso "pound for pound"

2011-13 / vettel is a living legend, three year championship, alonso is so complete

2014 / that dog of a Ferrari!!! btw look at Ricciardo

2015-2017 / iF onLy AloNso waS In a QUick Car

2018 / yeah lewis is actually quite good

2019 / VERSTAPPEN GOAT

Edited by TomNokoe, 21 August 2019 - 19:02.


#5271 sennafan24

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 20:28

Can you guys remember 2009 where we were left disappointed after the promise of 07 and 08? Can you remember 2011 when Vettel was dominating, Lewis was crashing and all seemed lost? Can you remember Mr Hindsight? Can you remember the smoking car in Singapore? Can you remember the tyres of Barcelona 2013? I can. I can remember all of it, when Lewis was doomed to never win another championship.  :cry:

Is this a bizarre remix of Rock and Roll Radio by The Ramones?



#5272 OO7

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 20:36

I disagree.  I think it's perfectly legitimate to ask the question.  I don't think it's an easy one to answer but I don't think people shouldn't be allowed to ask it in the first place.

 

Hypothetically, if the verdict is that Max is better than Lewis now then it's not a stretch to argue that means he might be better than Lewis overall.  It all depends on whether you think Lewis is driving at his best now, or whether you think Lewis has driven better in the past.

 

I think you are confusing better with more successful.  There's no argument there.  But better driver is not exactly hard science anyway so I don't see why people can't debate it.  Some people take things like this far too seriously but I don't see the harm in it.

I see "driving better than" and actually "better than" as two different forms of comparison, which gillesfan76 already covered in his most recent post in this thread.


Edited by OO7, 21 August 2019 - 20:40.


#5273 motorhead

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 20:58

So back to rumours. Ocon to Renault?

 

https://www.autobild...s-15474089.html



#5274 alframsey

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 21:13

So back to rumours. Ocon to Renault?

 

https://www.autobild...s-15474089.html

If that happens to be the case then I will be glad to see Ocon back on the grid but very bored with Bottas in the second Merc, he does his job but it isn't in the slightest entertaining or interesting. Even his smack talk is a dry as the worst cooked falafel.



#5275 shure

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 21:20

I see "driving better than" and actually "better than" as two different forms of comparison, which gillesfan76 already covered in his most recent post in this thread.

and as I said I think he's confusing "better than" with "more successful than"



#5276 OO7

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 21:45

and as I said I think he's confusing "better than" with "more successful than"

As was mentioned, the sample size is far too small, then there's the question of team mates............



#5277 shure

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 21:51

As was mentioned, the sample size is far too small, then there's the question of team mates............

it's just opinion.  If you were to ask whether Max was better than Vettel then I'd bet you'd get a number of positive responses.  Even though Vettel is a x4 WDC himself.  I don't see what the problem with that is yet the sample size is just as small



#5278 OO7

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 21:57

it's just opinion.  If you were to ask whether Max was better than Vettel then I'd bet you'd get a number of positive responses.  Even though Vettel is a x4 WDC himself.  I don't see what the problem with that is yet the sample size is just as small

Vettel has been on a bit of a downer for the past couple of years which has somewhat tarnished his reputation.  Max still has a lot to prove.



#5279 BUFFY

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 22:04

Well, in theory you can be up to 87 points worse than Lewis to achieve the same as him in 2018. Given how much Vettel and Ferrari screwed up that year I definitely can see at least Max and Alonso pulling it off, albeit with probably a lesser margin. Whether Max actually means that is a different question though.

As mentioned earlier, to a large extent it's just **** talking. In October he already said how a couple of drivers including Vettel could do the same in the Merc. Few weeks earlier - before Vettel did most of his mistakes - he trashed Vettel for not leading despite Ferrari being clearly quicker...

I can see Alonso pulling it off, but not a 2018 Verstappen.  

 

Those Vettel errors--drivers do not perform in isolation.  They do not operate in a vacuum.  Some of those errors came about because Hamilton's consistency helped pile the pressure on Vettel & Ferrari. Mistakes happen under pressure.   In 2018, Verstappen was regularly crashing in the first half of the season. He improved a little in the 2nd half, but signs of his immaturity  & inability to look at the bigger picture were still there e.g.needlessly dicing with Ocon in Brazil. IMO,  2018 Verstappen lacked the  overall consistency needed to beat Vettel in an arguably quicker  Ferrari.


Edited by BUFFY, 21 August 2019 - 22:07.


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#5280 alframsey

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 22:05

Max is clearly driving at a very high level right now and I don't think it is a stretch to say he is on Lewis' level in terms of his performance at the minute, but imo it is a stretch to say he would beat Lewis, or even equal him, in the same machinery. Max is driving without pressure and has been for a while. Lewis drives in the midst of a title fight season in season out and has done almost entirely since he entered the sport, with a very good to world class teammate many times aside from KOV and Bottas. Through all this he has maintained an extremely high level of performance, even during his worst seasons he has still be operating at a very high level. Max just hasn't had that pressure. We will see in time I guess but it is always tempting to go with the young upstart over the established king, lets not forget he is the king for a reason. 



#5281 cheekybru

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 23:40

To be fair the insinuation if you read it is that Lewis is nothing special and he is merely doing what others can do. At least that is what some who are holding on to what Max said would like to interpret or infer from the articles. The real crux of the matter is that in the broad context of things this is not what should be debated.

What I mean is fine other Drivers may have won in the Mercedes car but how many would have won with Lewis beside them, can you answer that categorically for a fact. I am not saying he is the messiah but he has proven his worth and quite rightly he is an all time great.

Take for example the 2017 & 2018 season where Ferrari showed up with arguably the best car and Vettel blew his chances, do you honestly think alongside Lewis he would have won in that Mercedes, I highly doubt that. The debate may be about who else could have won in the car but there is an underlying argument if those same people would have won alongside Lewis and bested him when driving the Mercedes car, I have a funny feeling the numbers of 3 or 4 drivers being quoted will magically dwindle.

That is what it really comes down to and who can you mention that will be able to best Lewis in equal cars. Lando, Vettel, Sainz, Max, Perez, Danny Ric, Bottas ? take your pic and then the argument becomes a bit more focused.

The thing about it being the car is a bit dated as he has proven time and time again and just for the record

Hamilton in Spec Series 2001 - 2006


105 races
37 wins
62 Podiums
33 Pole Positions
3 Titles

Win % - 35.2%
Podium % - 59%
Pole % - 31.4%



Hamilton F1 Career till now Percentages


241 races
81 wins
144 Podiums
87 Pole Positions
5 Titles


Win % - 33.6%
Podium % - 59.7%
Pole % - 36.1%

But it's just the Mercedes right :) :)


Wish I could like this twice

Those spec stats 😎😋

#5282 cheekybru

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 23:41

Just for the record I think Kovalinen (sorry for spelling) would destroy Gasly 😁

#5283 CountDooku

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 05:33

Is this a bizarre remix of Rock and Roll Radio by The Ramones?


http://youtu.be/ndI9vkgw_1Y

#5284 shure

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 09:52

Vettel has been on a bit of a downer for the past couple of years which has somewhat tarnished his reputation.  Max still has a lot to prove.

the x5 WDC stat was given as a reason why Max couldn’t be compared with Lewis. But a x4 WDC doesn’t carry that weight? I find that a bit of a double standard tbh. For the record, I don’t think those stats are relevant in the context of who might be the better driver. I think it’s perfectly acceptable to debate it

#5285 FrontWing

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 11:30

the x5 WDC stat was given as a reason why Max couldn’t be compared with Lewis. But a x4 WDC doesn’t carry that weight? I find that a bit of a double standard tbh. For the record, I don’t think those stats are relevant in the context of who might be the better driver. I think it’s perfectly acceptable to debate it


Why don't you just say that you think Max is better so we can all move on. Its getting a a little tiresome.

#5286 gillesfan76

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 12:49

the x5 WDC stat was given as a reason why Max couldn’t be compared with Lewis. But a x4 WDC doesn’t carry that weight? I find that a bit of a double standard tbh. For the record, I don’t think those stats are relevant in the context of who might be the better driver. I think it’s perfectly acceptable to debate it

 

Well if you read my post I said that it's neither a legitimate question wondering if Max is better than Seb. Seb's stock has definitely gone down, but he's been through battles, he's come out on top through four campaigns. Max is a superb driver. Charles is a superb driver. But they haven't proven anything yet. It's not just about LOOKING like you can do it. It's about doing it. Yes we all agree that the picture is very complicated in F1 because so much is car dependent. But that's just too bad. Just because the driver doesn't yet have the car to prove they can get the results, doesn't mean we can automatically assume that they WILL get the results if they have the right car.



#5287 OO7

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 12:49

the x5 WDC stat was given as a reason why Max couldn’t be compared with Lewis. But a x4 WDC doesn’t carry that weight? I find that a bit of a double standard tbh. For the record, I don’t think those stats are relevant in the context of who might be the better driver. I think it’s perfectly acceptable to debate it

To me it's not a question of WDCs but of driver performance.  Gillesfan76 mentioned WDCs, but more importantly legitimised the statement by pairing it with the drivers body of work over a sustain period of years.



#5288 AnR

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 12:59

Why don't you just say that you think Max is better so we can all move on. Its getting a a little tiresome.

 

Who do you mean will move on if he did? 



#5289 jjcale

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 13:39

Some high profile MV fans are so obsessed with beating LH that they are now apparently commenting on what they hope LH might say, if he actually cared to respond to what they have had to say about him ... 

 


 "Max and Red Bull are in a good flow and Max will do everything he can to show that the title belongs to him in 2020," Coronel told Motorsport.com.

"You already notice that Max is busy with that fight in the background and that also goes for Lewis.

He also knows that Max is the only one who can handle him at the moment and he is only concerned with Max.

“If Verstappen can exploit that even more, then you put the pressure on the boiler at Mercedes and Hamilton for 2020."

https://www.express....Red-Bull-racing

 

Wait, what?? ... LH never said this. Or anything close to it. 



#5290 milestone 11

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 14:55

Some high profile MV fans are so obsessed with beating LH that they are now apparently commenting on what they hope LH might say, if he actually cared to respond to what they have had to say about him ... 

 

 

https://www.express....Red-Bull-racing

 

Wait, what?? ... LH never said this. Or anything close to it. 

Tom Coronel makes up a lot of strange stories, just ask his wife,



#5291 monolulu

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 15:13

Tom Coronel makes up a lot of strange stories, just ask his wife,


So does the Express!

#5292 w1Y

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 15:30

The express has become a joke of a paper. They have turned into the ultimate clickbait media source. Soon we will be getting the 40 days of snow stories they pump out every year.

#5293 jjcale

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 15:57

They are quoting Motorsport.com .... 

 

The quote is real. 

 

edit - if a media house uses " " for a statement - that means they can source the quote. Otherwise they are "editorialising" ... this is not that. You can see the " " even in the bit that I quoted. 


Edited by jjcale, 22 August 2019 - 15:58.


#5294 Marklar

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 16:01

Nah, they cant be real. As we all know Tom is a twitter bot :p

#5295 Ivanhoe

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 16:03

So Coronel said something stupid, big deal, he does it all the time. Not worth quoting him in here.

#5296 shure

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 16:11

Why don't you just say that you think Max is better so we can all move on. Its getting a a little tiresome.

why don’t you try to read the posts properly instead of jumping to conclusions. It’s more than a little tiresome when people like you get the wrong end of the stick.

I’m arguing against the position that you can’t legitimately compare Max with Lewis. I don’t think any driver’s position should be sacrosanct and people shouldn’t be allowed to bully others while guarding “their” driver.

#5297 shure

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 16:15

Well if you read my post I said that it's neither a legitimate question wondering if Max is better than Seb. Seb's stock has definitely gone down, but he's been through battles, he's come out on top through four campaigns. Max is a superb driver. Charles is a superb driver. But they haven't proven anything yet. It's not just about LOOKING like you can do it. It's about doing it. Yes we all agree that the picture is very complicated in F1 because so much is car dependent. But that's just too bad. Just because the driver doesn't yet have the car to prove they can get the results, doesn't mean we can automatically assume that they WILL get the results if they have the right car.

i did read the post. But you’re not the only one who has commented.

I agree with you that it’s not automatic that Max (or any driver) will do something. I just don’t agree it’s so definite that it’s not open to debate

#5298 Silberpfeil

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 16:28

Some high profile MV fans are so obsessed with beating LH that they are now apparently commenting on what they hope LH might say, if he actually cared to respond to what they have had to say about him ...

https://www.express....Red-Bull-racing

Wait, what?? ... LH never said this. Or anything close to it.


”former Dutch racing driver“

Eh, I chuckled.

I don‘t think even the most devoted members of #TeamLH could hype up Lewis more than Coronel does with Max.

#5299 P123

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 16:31

This has turned into a bit of a Max vs Lewis topic... both great drivers. Maybe Max overall has performed better this season but if anybody thinks that means he has suddenly surpassed Hamilton they should probably temper their excitement. Hamilton's not exactly a spent force just yet (hello Nico), even if he is edging closer to the end of his F1 career. Even Autosport are getting slightly ahead of themselves with 'post-Hamilton era rivalries' stories... I'd rather stay in this season and look forward to more of what we saw in Hungary (and Monaco), and hopefully with the Ferrari duo in the mix too.

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#5300 Fox1

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 16:34

why don’t you try to read the posts properly instead of jumping to conclusions. It’s more than a little tiresome when people like you get the wrong end of the stick.

I’m arguing against the position that you can’t legitimately compare Max with Lewis. I don’t think any driver’s position should be sacrosanct and people shouldn’t be allowed to bully others while guarding “their” driver.

 

How often has Max defended a WDC point lead or taken the lead in the last 3rd of a F1 season?  Given that scenario, how did he perform in comparison to Lewis or Sebastian?