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Mercedes AMG F1 Team Thread (drivers, management, rumours and gossip!)


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#5801 GoldenColt

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:49

63 points ahead in the WDC, that's the biggest positive I take from today. The mistake into T1 was unnecessary, but not too much damage done in the end. Congratz to Ferrari, well, at least one side of the garage. :up:



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#5802 FrontWing

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:49

Exactly. I was more annoyed they gave Bottas full engine mode but didn’t allow Lewis the same option.

Yeah, once or twice when he was .3 seconds behind may have been enough to force a mistake.

#5803 Paco

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:50

Pretty meh.

Bottas much better pace than usual in the first stint, was usually closer to Hamilton than Hamilton to Leclerc. Hamilton struggled in tyre management today, havent seen this for a while. Then also the mistake, though I assume a team order was coming anyways.

Very weird stuff with how different they fighted against Leclerc despite Bottas having the superior fundation. Probably Mercedes will have to consider doing it the other way around when they split strategies next time considering how different they cope behind other cars.


You’re kidding about tire management right... he was down on top speed, had to drive in dirty air off ideal lines and pushing Charles at every opportunity and braking harder later into corners and harder on thrills to close the gap... he killed it all race...very little else he could have done especially with Mercedes not giving him the full power like they gave Bottas on last laps.

#5804 GoldenColt

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:50

Yeah, once or twice when he was .3 seconds behind may have been enough to force a mistake.

Tbf, Lewis forced Charles into a big mistake but FIA let Charles off.



#5805 SonGoku

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:51

Sorry, I like Bottas, but I don't see how you can justify that "attempt".

Edited by SonGoku, 08 September 2019 - 14:52.


#5806 robefc

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:52

Yeah, don't understand Merc giving lewis that tyre when pitting so early.

 

To try and get the undercut?



#5807 anyeis

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:53

There was no way to overtake him. Out of parabolica ERS just kicked off massively



#5808 MortenF1

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:53

You just knew it, when Bottas got second for free (Hamilton would’ve let him through), that Leclerc would win the race. It was intense watching Hamilton being on his gearbox, but with Bottas... there’s not much reason to be hopeful he can pull it off, and he proved it again today.

Good work from Hamilton. I can’t believe he refrained from commenting on Leclerc’s dirty moves. I trust he remembers them though.

#5809 peroa

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:53

To try and get the undercut?


The undercut doesn’t work that well save for the first few races, especially at high speed tracks where tyre delta is the only real weapon against the Ferrari’s.

#5810 NateF

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:54

You just knew it, when Bottas got second for free (Hamilton would’ve let him through), that Leclerc would win the race. It was intense watching Hamilton being on his gearbox, but with Bottas... there’s not much reason to be hopeful he can pull it off, and he proved it again today.

Good work from Hamilton. I can’t believe he refrained from commenting on Leclerc’s dirty moves. I trust he remembers them though.


Hamilton is being circumspect

#5811 Sunnny

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:56

Both drivers did well against DODT, Lewis was on full attack mode right at the back of Leclerc. Bottas matched Lewis all through first stint and had better tyre management. Lewis was the one who called for the undercut so no one can really complain about the strategy. 



#5812 robefc

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:58

The undercut doesn’t work that well save for the first few races, especially at high speed tracks where tyre delta is the only real weapon against the Ferrari’s.

 

I think they felt they needed to pass in the pit stops because of the straight line speed of the Ferrari and they also didn't think the overcut was on.



#5813 paipa

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:59

Bottas should never be given a strategy that requires him to overtake. He is toothless.
Bottas' only useful role is an undercut bait. Pit him to force Ferrari, and let Lewis do the overcut + pressure on fresher tyres.

#5814 geralt

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:00

Bottas had good pace today tbf, but I think I realised today that what makes Lewis such a monster when hunting down others for the win is his ability to just continue to apply the pressure for such a long time. He takes slightly different lines and adapts his braking points so well that he's always there ready to pounce.

 

Bottas clearly lacks that killer instinct, but still I wouldn't say he had a bad race



#5815 SonGoku

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:03

When is Bottas going to win a race again? Only with pole and a dominant Merc? I cannot believe how toothless he was today.

#5816 OO7

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:05

The undercut doesn’t work that well save for the first few races, especially at high speed tracks where tyre delta is the only real weapon against the Ferrari’s.

I think Mercedes should have pitted Bottas first and used him as the hare.  Lewis with 7 laps fresher tyres against Leclerc would have been something.



#5817 anyeis

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:06

When is Bottas going to win a race again? Only with pole and a dominant Merc? I cannot believe how toothless he was today.

 

How many drivers from the grid would have overtaken with Bottas strategy Maybe Verstappen/Ricciardo/Hamilton thats pretty much it

 

Even Hamilton had a huge tire advantage at the start of the stint


Edited by anyeis, 08 September 2019 - 15:06.


#5818 Sunnny

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:07

When is Bottas going to win a race again? Only with pole and a dominant Merc? I cannot believe how toothless he was today.

 

Are you upset he did not narrow  the points to Lewis or upset Leclerc is getting so much adulation? 



#5819 NateF

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:09

Got the impression Hamilton pitted first out of necessity, his tyre management was not on its usual performance, he mentioned something about set up after the race.

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#5820 kernel

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:10

I think Mercedes should have pitted Bottas first and used him as the hare.  Lewis with 7 laps fresher tyres against Leclerc would have been something.

 

Only question mark was HAM's rear tyres. I had a feeling his rears were well and truly done by lap 20.

 

I am actually a little concerned about Singapore now... which is also a rear-limited track.

 

HAM confirmed just now that he will become a lot more aggressive whilst racing the youngsters (i.e., moving under braking, etc.)


Edited by kernel, 08 September 2019 - 15:13.


#5821 Sunnny

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:16

I think Mercedes should have pitted Bottas first and used him as the hare.  Lewis with 7 laps fresher tyres against Leclerc would have been something.

 

Lewis complained about his tyres and wanted the undercut. 



#5822 SonGoku

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:17

Are you upset he did not narrow the points to Lewis or upset Leclerc is getting so much adulation?


No I like team Mercedes and thought we had a certain win when BOT got his chance.

#5823 Gorma

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:19

You just knew it, when Bottas got second for free (Hamilton would’ve let him through), that Leclerc would win the race. It was intense watching Hamilton being on his gearbox, but with Bottas... there’s not much reason to be hopeful he can pull it off, and he proved it again today.

Good work from Hamilton. I can’t believe he refrained from commenting on Leclerc’s dirty moves. I trust he remembers them though.

 

Hamilton could not overtake him with a tyre advantage (medium against hard) with new tyres. How was Bottas supposed to automatically overtake him with worn tyres. Still how in in hell he could have kept Leclerc behind him with that kind of speed difference on straights.



#5824 Sunnny

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:20

No I like team Mercedes and thought we had a certain win when BOT got his chance.

 

Boittas said he took the life out of his tyres closing the gap to Lewis and Leclerc. If Lewis could not overtake Leclerc in over 25 laps why do you expect  Bottas to in 6 laps? 



#5825 kernel

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:20

Hamilton could not overtake him with a tyre advantage (medium against hard) with new tyres. How was Bottas supposed to automatically overtake him with worn tyres. Still how in in hell he could have kept Leclerc behind him with that kind of speed difference on straights.

 

BOT had 7 lap tyre advantage (on top of being softer), on top of being in clean air the entire time, whilst LEC had been defending for 20 laps....



#5826 SonGoku

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:21

BOT had 7 lap tyre advantage (on top of being softer), on top of being in clean air the entire time, whilst LEC had been defending for 20 laps....


Indeed, don't know why people defend him.

#5827 Sunnny

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:23

Hamilton could not overtake him with a tyre advantage (medium against hard) with new tyres. How was Bottas supposed to automatically overtake him with worn tyres. Still how in in hell he could have kept Leclerc behind him with that kind of speed difference on straights.

 

Its just the usual 'Lets bash Bottas' posts. It's good to release of all that pent up frustation when things don't go well for Lewis or things go too well for Lewis. Bottas is attacked from both sides. Lewis fans and Lewis critics. Has there been another driver who is 2nd in WDC standings that's been this criticised? Not to my memory. 



#5828 kernel

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:23

Further, BOT made 2 key mistakes which lost him 0.75s each time (and took him out of DRS), once by outbraking himself at T1, and then at the 2nd chicane at the exit. If he had kept it clean, he would have had a much better shot at passing. It would have been marginal, but he would have had a real crack.

It's ridiculous that BOT didn't get a single shot.

But I think overall that the hards were the way to go based on LEC's pace. They should have put HAM on hards, and BOT on mediums.



#5829 Gorma

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:25

BOT had 7 lap tyre advantage (on top of being softer), on top of being in clean air the entire time, whilst LEC had been defending for 20 laps....

But Bottas was not behind Leclerc when he came out of the pits. The gap was 7-8 seconds to Hamilton at that point. He had to take life out of the tyres to catch Hamilton and Leclerc.



#5830 Gorma

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:26

Further, BOT made 2 key mistakes which lost him 0.75s each time (and took him out of DRS), once by outbraking himself at T1, and then at the 2nd chicane at the exit. If he had kept it clean, he would have had a much better shot at passing. It would have been marginal, but he would have had a real crack.

It's ridiculous that BOT didn't get a single shot.

But I think overall that the hards were the way to go based on LEC's pace. They should have put HAM on hards, and BOT on mediums.

He said the everytime he got close the fronts locked due to the lack of downforce.



#5831 GoldenColt

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:27

Its just the usual 'Lets bash Bottas' posts. It's good to release of all that pent up frustation when things don't go well for Lewis or things go too well for Lewis. Bottas is attacked from both sides. Lewis fans and Lewis critics. Has there been another driver who is 2nd in WDC standings that's been this criticised? Not to my memory. 

Some Lewis fans. No dumb generalizations, please.



#5832 shure

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:29

Its just the usual 'Lets bash Bottas' posts. It's good to release of all that pent up frustation when things don't go well for Lewis or things go too well for Lewis. Bottas is attacked from both sides. Lewis fans and Lewis critics. Has there been another driver who is 2nd in WDC standings that's been this criticised? Not to my memory. 

Rosberg?



#5833 SonGoku

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:29

I will turn it around, if Lewis would have BOT strategy we would expect fireworks.

Just be honest.

#5834 SilverArrow31

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:32

Its just the usual 'Lets bash Bottas' posts. It's good to release of all that pent up frustation when things don't go well for Lewis or things go too well for Lewis. Bottas is attacked from both sides. Lewis fans and Lewis critics. Has there been another driver who is 2nd in WDC standings that's been this criticised? Not to my memory.


I mean... Vettel last year?

#5835 shure

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:32

Yeah, once or twice when he was .3 seconds behind may have been enough to force a mistake.

apparently it's an issue of engine temperatures.  They have to be in a certain window to allow the higher mode.  Given that Hamilton was pushing hard all race he may not have been in a position where he could use the higher mode, especially in the middle of the race when the engine doesn't have the possibility of cooling down further.  Bottas was in a better position at the end of the race



#5836 Marklar

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:33

But Bottas was not behind Leclerc when he came out of the pits. The gap was 7-8 seconds to Hamilton at that point. He had to take life out of the tyres to catch Hamilton and Leclerc.

Hamilton managed this quickly in both Budapest and Spa while still being able to launch a attack though. Spending a lot of time in dirty air is way more damaging than catching up in clean air.

Just see how Hamilton dropped back after Bottas was through. Bottas was obviously much quicker with his tyres, that he then cant keep up as soon as he is behind Leclerc is weird, considering that the slower Hamilton could, even after fighting for 20 laps.



#5837 Retrofly

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:35

Everyone seems so upset and I'm not sure why.

 

Ferrari was rapid here, faster down the straights, even without DRS, the Merc was only gaining to the very end of the straights.

I thought Hamilton did as much as he could, he was only stopped by Leclerc squeezing him off track.

 

Ham's pace was great in the dirty air of Leclerc, Bottas didn't seem to cope as well, but he finished 2nd and Hamilton 3rd so he gets the kudos.

 

However ham was the sacrifice, hounding Leclerc lap after lap in dirty air on older tires, I'm not surprised he finished 3rd, nor am I sad or worried. He almost pulled it off. Good race. :clap:



#5838 GoldenColt

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:38

Everyone seems so upset and I'm not sure why.

 

Ferrari was rapid here, faster down the straights, even without DRS, the Merc was only gaining to the very end of the straights.

I thought Hamilton did as much as he could, he was only stopped by Leclerc squeezing him off track.

 

Ham's pace was great in the dirty air of Leclerc, Bottas didn't seem to cope as well, but he finished 2nd and Hamilton 3rd so he gets the kudos.

 

However ham was the sacrifice, hounding Leclerc lap after lap in dirty air on older tires, I'm not surprised he finished 3rd, nor am I sad or worried. He almost pulled it off. Good race. :clap:

Mercedes scored more points than any other team today and only a few less last time around, we all knew it would be very difficult for them to win any of these two races. They're safe in both championships with more favourable circuits ahead. I agree, all things considered, this is looking great. :up:  Can't win them all.



#5839 FrontWing

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:38

apparently it's an issue of engine temperatures. They have to be in a certain window to allow the higher mode. Given that Hamilton was pushing hard all race he may not have been in a position where he could use the higher mode, especially in the middle of the race when the engine doesn't have the possibility of cooling down further. Bottas was in a better position at the end of the race

That may well be, but I find it hard to believe the engine is that close to being damaged if they turn up the wick for a couple of straights.

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#5840 Victor

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:47

Great race by Hamilton, as usual. True, he made a mistake, but his tires were gone by then.

Bottas sucked. He should have won this race but he clearly lacks the killer instinct.

As a Ferrari fan I am delighted he was confirmed by Mercedes.



#5841 GoldenColt

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:50

Great race by Hamilton, as usual. True, he made a mistake, but his tires were gone by then.

Bottas sucked. He should have won this race but he clearly lacks the killer instinct.

As a Ferrari fan I am delighted he was confirmed by Mercedes.

As a Lewis-fan I feel the same about Vettel having another season at Ferrari.



#5842 geralt

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:52

Can we talk about the starts for a second? I remember at the start of the season Hamilton was getting mugged left and right, but now for a while it seems that he gets the best starts from the cars we see.

 

Has Merc introduced some new clutch system or something that helps with them?


Edited by geralt, 08 September 2019 - 15:52.


#5843 SonGoku

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:54

Can we talk about the starts for a second? I remember at the start of the season Hamilton was getting mugged left and right, but now for a while it seems that he gets the best starts from the cars we see.

Has Merc introduced some new clutch system or something that helps with them?


He worked on it after his bad Australia start.

#5844 Jordan44

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:54

Can we talk about the starts for a second? I remember at the start of the season Hamilton was getting mugged left and right, but now for a while it seems that he gets the best starts from the cars we see.

 

Has Merc introduced some new clutch system or something that helps with them?

 

A new clutch paddle

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=-Bk9D0oCy2g


Edited by Jordan44, 08 September 2019 - 15:55.


#5845 born1983

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:57

I think Bottas should feel emberassed. Twice he got close, twice he made a stupid mistake which dropped him again.

#5846 Retrofly

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:58

Mercedes scored more points than any other team today and only a few less last time around, we all knew it would be very difficult for them to win any of these two races. They're safe in both championships with more favourable circuits ahead. I agree, all things considered, this is looking great. :up:  Can't win them all.

Yep, for some reason people think they have to win every race or its the end of the world/end of someones career.

 

2nd and 3rd on what is probably one of Ferrari's best tracks, I'll take that. They'll get murdered as soon as they go to a track with corners.



#5847 SonGoku

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 16:07

Have to say I expected a closer battle for Lewis for best driver of his generation a few years ago, but one rival is walking around in the paddock without a seat and the other one can't stop spinning.

Edited by SonGoku, 08 September 2019 - 16:08.


#5848 MJB5990

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 16:10

Regarding the start, I noticed Lewis had his left hand a lot higher, almost on the top left of the steering wheel. Quite unusual.

#5849 monolulu

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 16:21

Have to say I expected a closer battle for Lewis for best driver of his generation a few years ago, but one rival is walking around in the paddock without a seat and the other one can't stop spinning.


Well he’s got the battle with the youngsters now. Just has to learn the new rules! But with championships in mind he may do better with the tried & trusted ones ;)

#5850 SonGoku

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 16:24

Well he’s got the battle with the youngsters now. Just has to learn the new rules! But with championships in mind he may do better with the tried & trusted ones ;)


Yes but that is not his generation, Max is going to driver another 10 years same with LEC.