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Mercedes AMG F1 Team Thread (drivers, management, rumours and gossip!)


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#5851 Marklar

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 16:25

Well he’s got the battle with the youngsters now. Just has to learn the new rules! But with championships in mind he may do better with the tried & trusted ones ;)

Hamilton's approach is much better when you fight for the title. He shouldnt change IMO.



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#5852 OO7

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 16:29

Yes but that is not his generation, Max is going to driver another 10 years same with LEC.

You can add another 5 years to that at least. :D



#5853 Piif

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 17:03

Regarding Bottas: say what you say, he drove a good race today and was on pace (if not faster) with Hamilton. What makes the difference though is his ability (or the lack of it) to overtake unless he has a much stronger pace than the one in front. Ok, even Lewis couldn't pass Leclerc but still, he at least gave it a shot. Bottas could only barely close the gap and had zero proper attempts. He's just way too careful in those situations.


Edited by Piif, 08 September 2019 - 17:04.


#5854 SonGoku

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 17:05

Regarding Bottas: say what you say, he drove a good race today and was on pace (if not faster) with Hamilton. What makes the difference though is his ability (or the lack of it) to overtake unless he has a much stronger pace than the one in front. Ok, even Lewis couldn't pass Leclerc but still, he at least gave it a shot. Bottas could only barely close the gap and had zero proper attempts. He's just way too careful in those situations.


Again when he is going to win another race then? DNF for the leader? Starting from pole?

I really believed he would have at least tried it today and win it.

#5855 robefc

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 17:08

Again when he is going to win another race then? DNF for the leader? Starting from pole?
I really believed he would have at least tried it today and win it.


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#5856 Marklar

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 17:11

Regarding Bottas: say what you say, he drove a good race today and was on pace (if not faster) with Hamilton. What makes the difference though is his ability (or the lack of it) to overtake unless he has a much stronger pace than the one in front. Ok, even Lewis couldn't pass Leclerc but still, he at least gave it a shot. Bottas could only barely close the gap and had zero proper attempts. He's just way too careful in those situations.

I dont think it's overtaking per se, but rather following. Hamilton on worse tyres permanently was within a few tenths. Bottas hardly ever reached even that on fresher tyres. And if you struggle to follow it's very hard to set up a overtake.

#5857 Ellios

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 17:27

Hamilton on Monza podium "...it's the worst podium for me, obviously, I get the biggest boos of any single driver that's ever participated in history here..."

 

https://streamable.com/9ub9t



#5858 Synkro89

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 17:50

Im not surprised these are the same lot that bring bananas to football games to taunt Mario Balotelli. Most of europe are still backwards in that regard.



#5859 Retrofly

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 17:58

Hamilton's approach is much better when you fight for the title. He shouldnt change IMO.

Agree, you win title fights by letting Leclerc push you off the track and avoiding a race ending incident.

 

Leclerc had nothing to lose, so he can pretty much do what he wants, we've seen this with Max too, the kids can mess about all they want but Lewis has a c'chip to win. :up:

We'll see how they fare when titles are on the line.



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#5860 beachdrifter

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 18:03

Leclerc had nothing to lose, so he can pretty much do what he wants, we've seen this with Max too, the kids can mess about all they want but Lewis has a c'chip to win. :up:

We'll see how they fare when titles are on the line.

 

We've seen how Max does once it looked like he could join the race. It hasn't been pretty.

 

But no doubt the "faultless Verstappen" narrative will continue. 



#5861 w1Y

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 18:12

Good result for the team. They better hope they can start getting some poles because the ferrari straight line speed makes them almost imposible to overtake.

They need to make sure they get some power while maintaining efficiency next year and make the aero more efficient

#5862 TomNokoe

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 18:21

Happy enough with Hamilton's drive. Again plenty to review in hindsight. Bottas was only close enough because Hamilton and Leclerc were fighting eachother. Not sure if a different strategy would've made a difference.

Hamilton did all he could and more. A little annoyed with these tiny errors: outlap lockup, T1 adventure. They're a little too predictable now. Canada hairpin, Hungary T2, Spa bus stop. Maybe it's the trade-off for his relentless speed, but he needs to reign it in a little. Also surprised he didn't follow Charles' route across the chicane. Too honest, as usual!

Edited by TomNokoe, 08 September 2019 - 18:23.


#5863 peroa

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 18:22

Regarding Bottas: say what you say, he drove a good race today and was on pace (if not faster) with Hamilton. What makes the difference though is his ability (or the lack of it) to overtake unless he has a much stronger pace than the one in front. Ok, even Lewis couldn't pass Leclerc but still, he at least gave it a shot. Bottas could only barely close the gap and had zero proper attempts. He's just way too careful in those situations.

He drove a typical Jenson Button race, he kept within a couple of seconds, didn't overstress the tyres and went for the overcut and waited for something to happen, only problem is, nothing happened.



#5864 rodlamas

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 18:34

Had Mercedes waited 2 more laps, Bottas would have won. Bottas would have pitted during the VSC for Sainz and would have rejoined ahead of Leclerc.

#5865 SonGoku

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 18:40

Good result for the team. They better hope they can start getting some poles because the ferrari straight line speed makes them almost imposible to overtake.

They need to make sure they get some power while maintaining efficiency next year and make the aero more efficient


Am I the only one that thinks that the 2021 rule changes could be positive for Merc instead of stopping them like many people think.

#5866 dierome87

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 18:40

Hamilton did what he could. Even if somehow he would have managed to pass Leclerc, I'm not sure he could have pulled away from him.

 

The Ferrari engine is a monster. Mercedes must raise their game next year in their engine department. It's a bit concerning that they have not been able to bridge the gap.


Edited by dierome87, 08 September 2019 - 18:41.


#5867 beachdrifter

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 18:51

Hamilton did what he could. Even if somehow he would have managed to pass Leclerc, I'm not sure he could have pulled away from him.

 

His tyres would have been done at some point, and Leclerc would have passed him easily. He worked so hard for so long on them.


Edited by beachdrifter, 08 September 2019 - 18:53.


#5868 MinardiCrashDummy

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 18:59

I think the minute Hamilton went onto mediums and Leclerc hard it was over really. Hamilton would have had to overtake within the first 2 or 3 laps ala 2016 f1 season to keep his tyres in good enough shape to fight the rest of the race.



#5869 anyeis

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 19:00

Looking back Hamilton really only got a run on Leclerc because of Ricciardo was in the way

Edited by anyeis, 08 September 2019 - 19:00.


#5870 AmonGods

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 19:02

Well, Ferrari can have their 60 seconds of fame... cause they're gonna get lapped in Singapore.



#5871 EndlessMotion

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 19:05

Hamilton did what he could. Even if somehow he would have managed to pass Leclerc, I'm not sure he could have pulled away from him.

 

The Ferrari engine is a monster. Mercedes must raise their game next year in their engine department. It's a bit concerning that they have not been able to bridge the gap.

 

Ferrari's power unit is a beast these days but they also have a more slippery car than Mercedes which also accounts for a fair amount of their straight line speed along with the grunt from the engine. Whilst it's a little brusing for some Mercedes fans after enjoying 4 seasons or so as the outright speed kings from the start of the hybrid era, I think it's a "weakness" well worth carrying when the trade off is being quicker through the corners. Add better tyre management to the equation and it's the far superior package over a season when you're looking to win championships.

 

Any engine gains will always be welcome but Mercedes have got it bang on when you look at the bigger picture. Spa and Monza were always races where Ferrari were expected to take pole and probably win too and yet Mercedes were able to hound the back of the leading Ferrari in both races despite a significant disadvantage on the long straights. Only some robust defending from Leclerc here in Monza and the race not being a lap or two longer in Spa stopped Hamilton stealing a couple of scuderia wins. Ferrari have only been able to dream of finishing as close to Mercedes at many of the more typical circuits on the calendar this year. I'm sure they'd happily trade their straight line speed for a better all round race car like the Merc.



#5872 SonGoku

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 19:08

It's just bloody frustrating to watch these 2 last races, but you can't argue the choice indeed.

#5873 ferrarista

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 19:12

His tyres would have been done at some point, and Leclerc would have passed him easily. He worked so hard for so long on them.

It’s interesting that Lewis yesterday said that they would have pushed hard Ferrari to make them hit the cliff, but it was him who hit the cliff on the softs and the mediums. F1AT reports that Ferrari sacrificed quali pace for race pace, who knows if Mercedes did the opposite to grab the pole.

#5874 ferrarista

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 19:13

Well, Ferrari can have their 60 seconds of fame... cause they're gonna get lapped in Singapore.

absolutely correct

#5875 ferrarista

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 19:13

Looking back Hamilton really only got a run on Leclerc because of Ricciardo was in the way

exactly

#5876 SonGoku

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 19:14

It’s interesting that Lewis yesterday said that they would have pushed hard Ferrari to make them hit the cliff, but it was him who hit the cliff on the softs and the mediums. F1AT reports that Ferrari sacrificed quali pace for race pace, who knows if Mercedes did the opposite to grab the pole.


When I saw how close Merc was yesterday I knew the race pace advantage was gone.

#5877 ferrarista

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 19:14

Hamilton on Monza podium "...it's the worst podium for me, obviously, I get the biggest boos of any single driver that's ever participated in history here..."

https://streamable.com/9ub9t

all the maximum respect for one of the best if not the best driver in F1 history; but Lewis, come to Ferrari in 2021 and everything will be forgiven 😁

Edited by ferrarista, 08 September 2019 - 19:14.


#5878 peroa

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 19:16

It’s interesting that Lewis yesterday said that they would have pushed hard Ferrari to make them hit the cliff, but it was him who hit the cliff on the softs and the mediums. F1AT reports that Ferrari sacrificed quali pace for race pace, who knows if Mercedes did the opposite to grab the pole.

They took off downforce, I guess the tyre management wasn't as good as with the regular package, lack of experience maybe ...



#5879 MinardiCrashDummy

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 19:21

I actually think Bottas did well with his race pace today, if he can keep that up Hamilton won't have it all his own way the last 7 races.



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#5880 Synkro89

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 19:24

Just lol at Bottas aswell. No killer instinct . Spent most of his stints in free air, Had 8 lap fresher tyres and still couldn't put on pressure. Leclerc knows he lacks aggression anyway. I don't even remember Bottas trying to overtaking for a win.....Oh i do . It was bahrain 2017. Once again lacked aggression there aswell. Finished ahead of Lewis and scrapped off a measly 2 points lol Man i actually hope he gets another win somewhere so this Bottas 2.0 talk can rise to the surface again  :stoned:



#5881 Claudius

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 19:26

Lewis was relentless again, great race by him. Don't care that he lost a place while trying to overtake CL. At least he made CL sweat and applied maximum pressure. To me this 3d place is worth more than wining races in dominant cars. 

 

Bottas OTOH, the less said about him the better. He is such an uninspired driver, just waiting back despite having newer and better tires. How he couldn't amount to attack even once is beyond me.



#5882 Claudius

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 19:29



I actually think Bottas did well with his race pace today, if he can keep that up Hamilton won't have it all his own way the last 7 races.

 

Philip sent a message to the Spartans saying “If I invade Lakonia you will be destroyed, never to rise again.” The Spartans replied with one word, “If.”



#5883 TheFish

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 20:03

Bottas is an embarrassment. Fresher tyres and put no pressure on Leclerc.

Would much rather have Ocon in next year, a bit of entertainment at least.

#5884 beachdrifter

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 20:15

Bottas is an embarrassment. Fresher tyres and put no pressure on Leclerc.

Would much rather have Ocon in next year, a bit of entertainment at least.

 

Hearing "This is your race, Valtteri!" on the radio made me a little sad. 



#5885 beachdrifter

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 20:17

I actually think Bottas did well with his race pace today, if he can keep that up Hamilton won't have it all his own way the last 7 races.

 

Did he, though? Lewis' was gated by Leclerc's all race, until his tyres were done. I don't think we saw Lewis real pace at any point in this race. 



#5886 uraharakisuke

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 20:22

Yeah Lewis was stuck in dirty air the entire race, Bottas really didn't impress with his race pace as some have suggested.



#5887 Marklar

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 20:25

Did he, though? Lewis' was gated by Leclerc's all race, until his tyres were done. I don't think we saw Lewis real pace at any point in this race. 

It's obviously tough to say but already early on in the race it looked like Bottas kept up better with Hamilton than Hamilton did with Leclerc.

It's of course also possible that later on Bottas pace on 8 laps fresher tyres was exagerated by Leclerc clearly holding up Hamilton and destroying his tyres (plus Hamiilton straight away was moved to the lowest engine mode after Bottas was through).

But in any case he looked at least closer than usual pace wise, race craft wise he was his usual self though.



#5888 w1Y

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 20:27

Question is would leclerc have been able to stay close to lewis if he was chasing him today

#5889 beachdrifter

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 20:28

It's obviously tough to say but already early on in the race it looked like Bottas kept up better with Hamilton than Hamilton did with Leclerc.

 

Didn't look like that to me. They kept pretty much identical gaps to the car in front. 1 to 1.6 secs between Lewis and Leclerc, and 1 to 2 secs between Lewis and Bottas in the first stint. 


Edited by beachdrifter, 08 September 2019 - 20:29.


#5890 Mercstar

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 20:38

Happy enough with Hamilton's drive. Again plenty to review in hindsight. Bottas was only close enough because Hamilton and Leclerc were fighting eachother. Not sure if a different strategy would've made a difference.

Hamilton did all he could and more. A little annoyed with these tiny errors: outlap lockup, T1 adventure. They're a little too predictable now. Canada hairpin, Hungary T2, Spa bus stop. Maybe it's the trade-off for his relentless speed, but he needs to reign it in a little. Also surprised he didn't follow Charles' route across the chicane. Too honest, as usual!

 

Mmmmmm, you're the type of guy who'd find dust on a bar of gold  :drunk:



#5891 FrontWing

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 20:40

Regarding the start, I noticed Lewis had his left hand a lot higher, almost on the top left of the steering wheel. Quite unusual.

This has been a thing for a while, it's something to do with have a consistent position for his clutch finger. It certainly seems to be working, he's the best starter on the grid this year.

#5892 f1supreme

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 20:49

Happy enough with Hamilton's drive. Again plenty to review in hindsight. Bottas was only close enough because Hamilton and Leclerc were fighting eachother. Not sure if a different strategy would've made a difference.

Hamilton did all he could and more. A little annoyed with these tiny errors: outlap lockup, T1 adventure. They're a little too predictable now. Canada hairpin, Hungary T2, Spa bus stop. Maybe it's the trade-off for his relentless speed, but he needs to reign it in a little. Also surprised he didn't follow Charles' route across the chicane. Too honest, as usual!

 

I agree,hamilton was pushing hard lap after lap

and you could say he was on the weaker strategy pitting so early onto mediums

maybe the hards would have worked better for lewis,but Ferraris straight line speed was just a little too much regardless.

lewis still nearly got Leclerc tho.

i was sure bottas would get leclerc,but as soon as he closed in on leclerc,his laptimes dropped

that shows you lewis did well to stay so close to leclerc for so many laps..



#5893 beachdrifter

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 20:53

It’s interesting that Lewis yesterday said that they would have pushed hard Ferrari to make them hit the cliff, but it was him who hit the cliff on the softs and the mediums. F1AT reports that Ferrari sacrificed quali pace for race pace, who knows if Mercedes did the opposite to grab the pole.

 

Lewis hit the cliff of the tyres because he spent almost all race behind Leclerc, trying to push him. But it didn't work because the Ferrari was too fast on the straights, and driving in free air otherwise, on a track that isn't exactly hard on the tyres.

 

Tyre usage was fine for Merc, as you could see with Valtteri. 



#5894 Synkro89

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 21:01

Mmmmmm, you're the type of guy who'd find dust on a bar of gold  :drunk:

 

lool its obvious he's pushing to the limit. Most of the time he knows where it is other times he goes slightly over it. 



#5895 ferrarista

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 21:02

Lewis hit the cliff of the tyres because he spent almost all race behind Leclerc, trying to push him. But it didn't work because the Ferrari was too fast on the straights, and driving in free air otherwise, on a track that isn't exactly hard on the tyres.

Tyre usage was fine for Merc, as you could see with Valtteri.

I think they didn’t expect to wear the tyres as they did in dirty air, if not why did Lewis stay the whole time there? They thought the tyres on the Ferrari would break sooner (I’m especially referring to the first stint) and have a similar win to 2018 against Kimi but it didn’t happen. I also think that had Lewis passed Lec in the second stint, it would have been almost impossible to fend off an attack by Lec in the final stages of the race.

#5896 f1supreme

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 21:05

good drive by lewis,yes he made a few mistakes,but so did Leclerc,because of the pressure lewis put him under.

and bottas race pace was better than what we've seen in previous races.

it was frustrating seeing lewis get so close lap after lap,then at the crucial time,leclerc would pull away on the straights.

it was obvious leclerc would finish the race stronger than lewis because of the different tyres they were on.

i did however think bottas would get leclerc,because his pace on those fresher tyres was alot stronger,but as soon as he caught Leclerc,his pace dropped.

then it was obvious Leclerc would win.



#5897 SonGoku

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 21:05

Lewis gave it everything and I rather see this than a conservative effort. Must also be great for the engineers to know he will push the limits of the car.

#5898 beachdrifter

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 21:09

I think they didn’t expect to wear the tyres as they did in dirty air, if not why did Lewis stay the whole time there? They thought the tyres on the Ferrari would break sooner (I’m especially referring to the first stint) and have a similar win to 2018 against Kimi but it didn’t happen. I also think that had Lewis passed Lec in the second stint, it would have been almost impossible to fend off an attack by Lec in the final stages of the race.

 

They expected it, Shovlin said that. Lewis stayed there because it was the only way to put pressure on Leclerc. Like in Canada, Merc didn't have the car to overtake on track. They needed a Ferrari driver to cooperate by making a mistake, and/or the FIA to enforce the rules. That was the only chance. 


Edited by beachdrifter, 08 September 2019 - 21:10.


#5899 baddog

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 21:13

I give up on Valtteri. Great try by Lewis though.



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#5900 Knowlesy

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 21:18

Mmmmmm, you're the type of guy who'd find dust on a bar of gold :drunk:


I think he is on a windup. I hope so anyways.