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2019 Red Bull: Max Verstappen and friends vs the world. Oh, and there was Gasly too before Albon took over


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#3501 JeePee

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:34

Dissapointing race from Max.

Disappointing race from both.

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#3502 jacdaniel

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:35

None of it was shown on tv.... how was it that Max couldn’t pass Perez?

He was right on him for last 10 laps...

#3503 PedroDiCasttro

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:37

Honda engine is dead last when it comes to power.



#3504 Requiem84

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:37

That was really poor from Verstappen.

T1 L1, running into the back of the others.. wow.

Albon also quite poor given the pace of the car.

#3505 Lights

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:37

Verstappen: been awhile that Max didn't start near the front and it showed. That traffic jam into T1 caught him out and he dearly paid or it. You could see that he didn't want to risk anything, he braked super early, but then underestimated how slow the pack would go through there. Maybe that's something he could've practiced in the sim, although in those I guess he'd just overtake half the grid into T1 on the inside. Still scoring 4 points is a small reconciliation, but he should've been higher up based on his pace. Should've been 5th, at least 6th.

 

Albon: drove a good race but lost a lot of time against Sainz and to be honest he should've known he'd run out of room there. Otherwise I'm sure he'd have finished 5th. His pace compared to Max wasn't good either, but well, a lot better than Gasly of course.



#3506 Augurk

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:39

Stars did not align this time. 20s behind p19 after lap 1 for Max. Then had some brilliant pace, but had 2 badly timed VSCs against him, having several cars ahead of him getting an advantage. And still not fast enough to get Perez. There must've been some battle going on, but we didn't get to see anything.

Albon a bit worrying. Showed some real fight in the beginning, but finishing behind the Renaults..even with Rics vsc stop. Don't expect Max would've finished behind them. Even think he'd be more in the mix with the leaders.

#3507 Wolbo

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:41

Not impressed by the race pace of both cars. Max had a reasonable race to get to the top 10 but I'm surprised he was stuck behind Perez for so long.

 

Bring on Spec 5,6,7.......



#3508 Ivanhoe

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:41

Yep, Max was unlucky with the VSC twice shortly after he pitted.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 08 September 2019 - 14:41.


#3509 v@sh

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:46

Stars did not align this time. 20s behind p19 after lap 1 for Max. Then had some brilliant pace, but had 2 badly timed VSCs against him, having several cars ahead of him getting an advantage. And still not fast enough to get Perez. There must've been some battle going on, but we didn't get to see anything.

Albon a bit worrying. Showed some real fight in the beginning, but finishing behind the Renaults..even with Rics vsc stop. Don't expect Max would've finished behind them. Even think he'd be more in the mix with the leaders.

 

Albon isn't doing much better than Gasly IMO even if it's only two races in. I think he'll still do better in the long run but I don't expect by much for the rest of the season or what RBR hoped for when it comes to beating Ferrari in the WCC.

 

Albon finished behind the Renaults while Verstappen started from the back, had to change the front wing and still finished only 10 seconds behind Albon on track. Not a great race.



#3510 Prelude

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:54

Without the penalty Max would've fight for pole and win. He was half a sec a lap faster than Albon here.


Edited by Prelude, 08 September 2019 - 14:54.


#3511 ARTGP

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:56

Not impressed by the race pace of both cars. Max had a reasonable race to get to the top 10 but I'm surprised he was stuck behind Perez for so long.

 

Bring on Spec 5,6,7.......

 

Keep in mind Perez is the quickest car in the speed traps all day. Even quicker than Ferrari. It's no surprise Max struggled to a car that's slippery in a straight line. Just like Hamilton could not get past Leclerc despite being quicker in the corners.



#3512 jacdaniel

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:13

Albons pace is a bit of a concern there. Max started at the back and then ended up 20 seconds behind the pack.
Ended up only 10 seconds behind.

#3513 statman

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:30

Verstappens pace was fine, good results given the circumstances. And not too far from Albon, which is a bit worrying for Albon.



#3514 Reddington

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:34

Well, these are out of the way now. Let's bring on the rest of the season. Max will be back roaring in Singapore!



#3515 Joshrobins13

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:36

Jeez, this is Albon's second race for the team and first season in F1.

 

He obviously isn't up to speed yet, but did you really expect him to be? Personally I think he has made a solid start to his Red Bull career which he now needs to build on.



#3516 johnwilliamdavies

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:40

Albon had a bit of a messy race: had a typical Red Bull slow start, then dropped back to 11th (I think) when went onto the gravel via Sainz, got back up into a decent position, then had a pit stop and 5 second penalty right before the VSC which pushed him back down behind the likes of Gio again so he had to overtake them all again. Not terrible seeing as it's only his 14th race.



#3517 Reddington

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:42

Albons pace is a bit of a concern there. Max started at the back and then ended up 20 seconds behind the pack.
Ended up only 10 seconds behind.

 

Well, to be fair, Max was stuck behind Perez most of the race too, so the further up you are, the more difficult to overtake. I think Albon is making a way more impressive start than Gasly. Methodical, apparently good to work with, decisive during overtaking. Doesn't seem to buckle under the pressure. Sure, he'll make the odd mistake. It's his first season in F1, while already being in a top seat middle season, he's bound to make mistakes. But up to now, I'd say so far so good.



#3518 Wolbo

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:50

Well, these are out of the way now. Let's bring on the rest of the season. Max will be back roaring in Singapore!

That is basically what Max said after the race. Problem is that if they want to be WC next year they cannot afford to write-off two races because they don't suit the car or because of engine penalties. They have to keep improving and time is beginning to run out.



#3519 Reddington

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:55

Problem is that if they want to be WC next year they cannot afford to write-off two races because they don't suit the car or because of engine penalties. They have to keep improving and time is beginning to run out.

 

Agreed. But I didn't expect them to be in the mix on pace, and they were. I thought it was pretty promising.



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#3520 SonGoku

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:57

Albon a non-factor like Gasly was. Second race yes, but he has to do better in the future.

#3521 OO7

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:59

Well, to be fair, Max was stuck behind Perez most of the race too, so the further up you are, the more difficult to overtake. I think Albon is making a way more impressive start than Gasly. Methodical, apparently good to work with, decisive during overtaking. Doesn't seem to buckle under the pressure. Sure, he'll make the odd mistake. It's his first season in F1, while already being in a top seat middle season, he's bound to make mistakes. But up to now, I'd say so far so good.

Not to mention the first time he jumped into the car was last weekend, with no testing and very little sim work.



#3522 Sunnny

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 16:00

Never really rated Albion, I mean he was even with Kvyat which is not saying much.



#3523 anyeis

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 16:06

Or maybe the car is fully geared toward Max and he is outperforming it. There is your half a second


Edited by anyeis, 08 September 2019 - 16:07.


#3524 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 16:08

That is basically what Max said after the race. Problem is that if they want to be WC next year they cannot afford to write-off two races because they don't suit the car or because of engine penalties. They have to keep improving and time is beginning to run out.

 

Well Ferrari wrote off all the other races to be good at 2 races. It can't be that bad of a strategy!  :p

 

Red Bull even have the same numbers of wins without such a strategy.  :eek:


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 08 September 2019 - 16:09.


#3525 SonGoku

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 16:20

Never really rated Albion, I mean he was even with Kvyat which is not saying much.


It's interesting to see if his junior formula level will reveal itself or if he is better than that. That was nothing special for a few years and he himself admitted even that (RB dropped him).

#3526 Arundo

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 16:23

Poor raceweekend from Redbull overall, Max again with a mistake. Sure he started at the back but should have be aware that could happen. Then he drove an ok race but nothing special. Albon should have gotten both Renaults but didnt so he's doing a solid job compared to Gasly but not yet showing he's an upgrade. Overall weekend to forget for Redbull, hope they can get back in the game in the coming races.



#3527 SenorSjon

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 16:35

The stupid thing is though, on pace they are podium contenders for years around Monza, yet they write it off each year.

#3528 shurajan

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 16:53

Poor raceweekend from Redbull overall, Max again with a mistake. Sure he started at the back but should have be aware that could happen. Then he drove an ok race but nothing special. Albon should have gotten both Renaults but didnt so he's doing a solid job compared to Gasly but not yet showing he's an upgrade. Overall weekend to forget for Redbull, hope they can get back in the game in the coming races.


Both rb could have been behind Kvyat today...

Edited by shurajan, 09 September 2019 - 09:47.


#3529 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 16:56

The stupid thing is though, on pace they are podium contenders for years around Monza, yet they write it off each year.

 

I see.  With lower grade engine, they have to take a penalty somewhere.



#3530 SenorSjon

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 16:58

I see. With lower grade engine, they have to take a penalty somewhere.


Yes, but tracks with a low lap count are not ideal to regain positions. A DRS train can really mess uo your recovery.

#3531 jacdaniel

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 17:33

This is were Gaslys failures are really starting to hurt. Had he occasionally taken points off of Ferrari, there might be some breathing room.

But Max had 1 DNF and a grid penalty while Le Clerc has had 2 wins.

Now the Ferraris are swarming

#3532 A3

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 18:29

None of it was shown on tv.... how was it that Max couldn’t pass Perez?

He was right on him for last 10 laps...


I followed Max's onboard for a while. He had some engine issues where he said that right before braking for turn 1 the engine suddenly had more power. Team said they saw it on the data but had no solution. He also said that a couple of times the engine failed to pick up power after turn 2 and that the MGU was not recharging correctly. I guess Honda still has some work to do with the new spec.

Also, Perez was extremely quick out of the parabolica and on the straight. Even with DRS Max barely gained on him.

#3533 SonGoku

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 18:30

This is were Gaslys failures are really starting to hurt. Had he occasionally taken points off of Ferrari, there might be some breathing room.

But Max had 1 DNF and a grid penalty while Le Clerc has had 2 wins.

Now the Ferraris are swarming


Gasly lost them second place this season indeed.

#3534 Ivanhoe

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 18:31

Horner also mentioned the engine went into the rev limiter when slipstreaming, which obviously doesn’t help overtaking.

#3535 A3

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 18:32

Honda engine is dead last when it comes to power.


Uhm no.

Of course this is with DRS. Problem was Perez was about as quick.
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#3536 Requiem84

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 18:34

Honda engine is dead last when it comes to power.


You posted fake news after Q, you got corrected and you do it again??

#3537 w1Y

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 19:23

Problem red bull have is. They could chase a young driver they think is good only to find out that no one can do what max is doing with the car. Gasly had his shot. Now give Albon the rest of the year before judgement

#3538 zanquis

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 19:54

Not impressed by the race pace of both cars. Max had a reasonable race to get to the top 10 but I'm surprised he was stuck behind Perez for so long.

Bring on Spec 5,6,7.......


Max had one of the strongest race pace of the entire field, except where he was stuck his pace was on par with Leclerc.

This track NEVER was going to favor RB, still his pace was strong. If their pace was so good on a weak track I feel optimistic about their strong track.

#3539 Heyli

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 19:56

I do wonder though, where do these engine hiccups come from and why do they keep happening to Max?

 

is his driving style difficult for the Honda engine to work with?

Are the team mates also seeing it, but simply not so vocal?

Is Max more sensitive to engine hiccups?

Is it really a case of bad luck?



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#3540 Goron3

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 19:59

Really hope things go smoothly in Japan and Singapore. Given how competitive the car was in Hungary, Singapore (with thebuodated PU) should offer Max a great chance of getting pole.

#3541 Talisman

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 20:06

Albon a non-factor like Gasly was. Second race yes, but he has to do better in the future.

 

To be fair to Albon he could and should have qualified further up which would have transformed his race for him.  No penalty, no clashes with Sainz.  That he didn't do so wasn't entirely his fault...



#3542 SonGoku

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 20:09

To be fair to Albon he could and should have qualified further up which would have transformed his race for him. No penalty, no clashes with Sainz. That he didn't do so wasn't entirely his fault...


His race pace wasn't anything special.

#3543 Talisman

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 20:09

I do wonder though, where do these engine hiccups come from and why do they keep happening to Max?

 

is his driving style difficult for the Honda engine to work with?

Are the team mates also seeing it, but simply not so vocal?

Is Max more sensitive to engine hiccups?

Is it really a case of bad luck?

 

The mapping issues before that he described as being like turbo lag he had were mainly due to him getting on the throttle earlier than expected.  I don't think I need to explain why Gasly didn't have that particular problem.

 

This particular issue that hit Max in quali at Monza seems to be Honda being very conservative in their response to a major over-rev.

 

He's right that they need to be more aggressive but with McLaren they were even more conservative.  Sometimes they would retire cars because of sensor failure but with no hardware issues.  Imagine doing that to RBR in Austria while hunting Bottas down when the exhaust sensor blew?



#3544 Talisman

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 20:12

His race pace wasn't anything special.

 

Lets give him a few races where he can genuinely be compared side by side with Max before condemning him.  From my perspective he was often in traffic and when he broke free was closing with Hulkenberg at nearly a second a lap.  More importantly unlike Gasly he has the ability to overtake and make up places.



#3545 Kao18

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 21:22

I think Max was just a bit unlucky at turn 1 today.If anything he was super conservative braking very early but sometimes this approach just gets you the opposite of what you want. Havent had the opportunity to rewatch the race yet but iirc something happened ahead and a few cars including Perez suddenly hit their brakes hard.

Its a shame he had to start from the back and then lost another 20 or so seconds because I think they had the pace to fight for a podium in Monza on merit for the first time in many years but we didnt get a chance to see it.

Edited by Kao18, 08 September 2019 - 21:27.


#3546 RPM40

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 21:43

2-0 to Albon so far. I never thought I'd be saying that



#3547 jacdaniel

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 21:51

2-0 to Albon so far. I never thought I'd be saying that


Wouldn’t read into that. Max had a DNF and grid penalty today.

#3548 PedroDiCasttro

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 21:56

You posted fake news after Q, you got corrected and you do it again??

As far as I'm aware, the best placed Red Bull finished more than 20 seconds behind the Renaults.



#3549 Jerem

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 21:58

Max's weekend was sacrificed anyway. He'll race for the win in Singapore.



#3550 RPM40

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 22:02

As far as I'm aware, the best placed Red Bull finished more than 20 seconds behind the Renaults.

Very Gasly esq performance by Albon.

 

I hope Vettel rejoins RBR next year. That would be fun