Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 6 votes

2019 Red Bull: Max Verstappen and friends vs the world. Oh, and there was Gasly too before Albon took over


  • Please log in to reply
4633 replies to this topic

#4251 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 34,204 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 21 October 2019 - 20:27

He's not the first to say this, and wil not be the last either! Doubters must be blind or ignorant

:confused: 

So if you dont think that Max is the quickest driver EVER you are blind or ignorant? We are not even talking about currently, which is probably relatively okay to judge , we are talking about including guys like Senna or Clark into the conversation.

A bit funny coming from Button btw, in the same interview he said that Hamilton cant be compared to past drivers, because you cant compare drivers from different eras, yet he said this about Max  :p 



Advertisement

#4252 Heyli

Heyli
  • Member

  • 2,989 posts
  • Joined: May 17

Posted 21 October 2019 - 20:51

:confused: 

So if you dont think that Max is the quickest driver EVER you are blind or ignorant? We are not even talking about currently, which is probably relatively okay to judge , we are talking about including guys like Senna or Clark into the conversation.

A bit funny coming from Button btw, in the same interview he said that Hamilton cant be compared to past drivers, because you cant compare drivers from different eras, yet he said this about Max  :p

Yeah, but Max is very special! That´s different!

 

(I thought the same reading it though... :)  )



#4253 Pits

Pits
  • Member

  • 953 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 21 October 2019 - 20:55

:confused: 

So if you dont think that Max is the quickest driver EVER you are blind or ignorant? We are not even talking about currently, which is probably relatively okay to judge , we are talking about including guys like Senna or Clark into the conversation.

A bit funny coming from Button btw, in the same interview he said that Hamilton cant be compared to past drivers, because you cant compare drivers from different eras, yet he said this about Max 

Sorry, just trying to smoke out the rats.

 

Yeah it's ridiculous to be honest...

You can't compare drivers from different eras driving different machines under a different rule book.

Alto it' is possible to see the difference between special drivers and just good enough drivers in every era.

In my view (and Button's for that matter) Max belongs up to there with Schumacher and Senna, even though he hasn't won any f1 season yet.



#4254 Kao18

Kao18
  • Member

  • 3,559 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 21 October 2019 - 21:41

I dont think Button want to convince anyone, he is just giving his own opinion.

Button has competed against all 4 of the most recent multi world champions who hold 18 championships between them, has been a team mate of two of them and has won a championship himself so he can probably be considered an expert on judging speed and talent.

Titles count in the end yes but as long as you dont have the right material yet its always nice to get a bit of recognition.

Ultimately something like this can never be proven of course, not even with arguments.

Edited by Kao18, 21 October 2019 - 22:03.


#4255 MikeTekRacing

MikeTekRacing
  • Member

  • 6,435 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 22 October 2019 - 00:01

I dont think Button want to convince anyone, he is just giving his own opinion.

Button has competed against all 4 of the most recent multi world champions who hold 18 championships between them, has been a team mate of two of them and has won a championship himself so he can probably be considered an expert on judging speed and talent.

Titles count in the end yes but as long as you dont have the right material yet its always nice to get a bit of recognition.

Ultimately something like this can never be proven of course, not even with arguments.

all is fair and his opinion is way more knowledgeable than any of ours (if there're no other specialists around).

it's really hard for anyone to say driver X is the fastest EVER. Right there among the fastest ever? Sure, that's pretty obvious. Not sure how you can say who is the best ever, though



#4256 PlayboyRacer

PlayboyRacer
  • Member

  • 2,773 posts
  • Joined: March 16

Posted 22 October 2019 - 04:13


So Jenson Button thinks Verstappen is the fastest F1 driver ever:


“I think he is the fastest driver that has ever driven an F1 car, I really do,” the Brit added about the ‘special’ 22-year-old. Source


Hear hear :smoking:

And people think Jacques Villeneuve makes ridiculous, outlandish and inflammatory comments lmao Button has lost his marbles.

Tell ya what - Albon suddenly looks pretty damn good! Same with Danny Ric. I don't mind it ;)

#4257 Kao18

Kao18
  • Member

  • 3,559 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 22 October 2019 - 06:40

And people think Jacques Villeneuve makes ridiculous, outlandish and inflammatory comments lmao Button has lost his marbles.

Tell ya what - Albon suddenly looks pretty damn good! Same with Danny Ric. I don't mind it ;)


Not sure what you are on about with Albon, one swallow does not make a summer.

As for Ric he has always looked pretty damn good, nothing suddenly about it.

#4258 JeePee

JeePee
  • Member

  • 3,047 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 22 October 2019 - 12:42

Grill the grid with Max and Alex:

 

https://www.formula1...__Red_Bull.html



#4259 Thatfastguy

Thatfastguy
  • Member

  • 1,066 posts
  • Joined: April 18

Posted 22 October 2019 - 12:54

And people think Jacques Villeneuve makes ridiculous, outlandish and inflammatory comments lmao Button has lost his marbles.

Tell ya what - Albon suddenly looks pretty damn good! Same with Danny Ric. I don't mind it ;)

Why are those comments ridiculous, outlandish and inflammatory and why does that make him insane?



Advertisement

#4260 goldenboy

goldenboy
  • Member

  • 6,161 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 22 October 2019 - 13:32

Not that it matters much obviously. In the end, it´s the titles that count.

Stirling Moss disagrees.

It would be a travesty though if he never got one.

#4261 Claymore25

Claymore25
  • Member

  • 194 posts
  • Joined: August 19

Posted 22 October 2019 - 14:19

Stirling Moss disagrees.

It would be a travesty though if he never got one.

 

Or Gilles Villeneuve or Wolfgang Von Tripps.



#4262 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 34,204 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 22 October 2019 - 14:21

My favourite thing about this was that this news came in my feed right next to "Irvine: Leclerc is much better than Verstappen"  :rotfl:



#4263 Heyli

Heyli
  • Member

  • 2,989 posts
  • Joined: May 17

Posted 22 October 2019 - 14:27

My favourite thing about this was that this news came in my feed right next to "Irvine: Leclerc is much better than Verstappen"  :rotfl:

That is objectively incorrect obviously!

 

*edit: I dont like this who is better than who discussion on that level, but these comments from Irvine do make me wonder if he´s following F1 very closely at all:

 

Irvine, who drove for Ferrari as Michael Schumacher’s wingman two decades ago, stirred the pot when he told Formula Passion, “For me, there is no doubt that Leclerc is better than Verstappen. In fact, he is much, much better and he showed it with the four consecutive pole positions despite the fact that Ferrari wasn’t the fastest.

Verstappen still makes stupid mistakes after a few years in Formula 1. Unlike Leclerc, who has a much lower error rate and could have won more than two races in 2019.”


Edited by Heyli, 22 October 2019 - 14:28.


#4264 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 34,204 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 22 October 2019 - 14:40

That is objectively incorrect obviously!

 

*edit: I dont like this who is better than who discussion on that level, but these comments from Irvine do make me wonder if he´s following F1 very closely at all:

 

Irvine, who drove for Ferrari as Michael Schumacher’s wingman two decades ago, stirred the pot when he told Formula Passion, “For me, there is no doubt that Leclerc is better than Verstappen. In fact, he is much, much better and he showed it with the four consecutive pole positions despite the fact that Ferrari wasn’t the fastest.

Verstappen still makes stupid mistakes after a few years in Formula 1. Unlike Leclerc, who has a much lower error rate and could have won more than two races in 2019.”

To be fair it's a opinion many seem to have, although it's objectively wrong. Leclerc has been error-prone this season while Max has only done 1-2 bigger mistakes (along with Lewis probably the least). Obviously Max is at a different stage of his career but even if we compare all of Verstappen's past seasons only last season (and that was mostly the start) wasnt less error-prone than what Leclerc delivered so far.

There are few people who bother to remember the entire season, hype always dictates the narrative. During the summer Max was carried by this, now it's Leclerc.


Edited by Marklar, 22 October 2019 - 14:40.


#4265 Heyli

Heyli
  • Member

  • 2,989 posts
  • Joined: May 17

Posted 22 October 2019 - 14:45

To be fair it's a opinion many seem to have, although it's objectively wrong. Leclerc has been error-prone this season while Max has only done 1-2 bigger mistakes (along with Lewis probably the least). Obviously Max is at a different stage of his career but even if we compare all of Verstappen's past seasons only last season (and that was mostly the start) wasnt less error-prone than what Leclerc delivered so far.

There are few people who bother to remember the entire season, hype always dictates the narrative. During the summer Max was carried by this, now it's Leclerc.

That was my thinking as well,  but also saying that Ferrari wasnt the fastest the last 4 races... About the race pace one could definitely argue, but I would say they are definitely one of the fastest, if not the fastest in qualifying on all tracks at the moment... 

 

Nothing against Leclercs current performance of course. He´s been doing very well since summer. 



#4266 ElectricBoogie

ElectricBoogie
  • Member

  • 380 posts
  • Joined: March 19

Posted 22 October 2019 - 16:20

Irvine thinks the Ferrari was not the fastest car in quali these days?
Interesting.



#4267 Ivanhoe

Ivanhoe
  • Member

  • 6,937 posts
  • Joined: November 15

Posted 22 October 2019 - 16:46

My favourite thing about this was that this news came in my feed right next to "Irvine: Leclerc is much better than Verstappen" :rotfl:

Maybe he already changed his mind :p

Charles Leclerc is a “much, much better” driver than Max Verstappen as he makes fewer mistakes, that’s according to Eddie Irvine although he was speaking prior to Suzuka.


Edited by Ivanhoe, 22 October 2019 - 16:48.


#4268 goldenboy

goldenboy
  • Member

  • 6,161 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 22 October 2019 - 22:04

I don't even know how to describe Irvine these days.

Clearly, he's not an idiot. He drove for ferrari and turned his money into a fortune outside of F1.

But still.. he's an idiot.

#4269 gillesfan76

gillesfan76
  • Member

  • 3,831 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 24 October 2019 - 14:47

I really hope Max goes to Merc. Lewis must be getting bored, winning all these championships relatively easily, he could do with a challenge. While Max gets a chance to prove that he's the fastest and most complete driver. Or not.



#4270 ElectricBoogie

ElectricBoogie
  • Member

  • 380 posts
  • Joined: March 19

Posted 24 October 2019 - 15:02

I really hope Max goes to Merc. Lewis must be getting bored, winning all these championships relatively easily, he could do with a challenge. While Max gets a chance to prove that he's the fastest and most complete driver. Or not.

They both deserve the challenge. And I suspect both will welcome it actually. It's a risk for Hamilton's legacy but hey, he's at 6 which Max is unlikely to best despite the early start. Such level of timing being in the right teams is exceptional even for a generational talent. But if Hamilton manages to get 7 (or just the team battle) against the next generation's star in his 6th season in F1, that would seal him as the GOAT.



#4271 ATM

ATM
  • Member

  • 527 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 24 October 2019 - 15:08

I don’t see Hamilton as asking for a higher team competition currently. To me he looks like he’s after Schumacher’s records and that is challenge enough for him. Also, I think he looks as hungry to win as ever, his radios even last race seem to prove that. Maybe after securing his 7th (or targetting maybe even 8th) Wdc he will relish a new challenge but for the time being I think he’s very comfy with the current status quo.

#4272 shure

shure
  • Member

  • 1,483 posts
  • Joined: April 17

Posted 24 October 2019 - 15:11

They both deserve the challenge. And I suspect both will welcome it actually. It's a risk for Hamilton's legacy but hey, he's at 6 which Max is unlikely to best despite the early start. Such level of timing being in the right teams is exceptional even for a generational talent. But if Hamilton manages to get 7 (or just the team battle) against the next generation's star in his 6th season in F1, that would seal him as the GOAT.

Don't intend to be controversial, but for some that might, for others it wouldn't



#4273 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 34,204 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 24 October 2019 - 15:33

They both deserve the challenge. And I suspect both will welcome it actually. It's a risk for Hamilton's legacy but hey, he's at 6 which Max is unlikely to best despite the early start. Such level of timing being in the right teams is exceptional even for a generational talent. But if Hamilton manages to get 7 (or just the team battle) against the next generation's star in his 6th season in F1, that would seal him as the GOAT.

I read this so often and I dont get this thinking - from both perspectives.

Hamilton neither needs to beat Verstappen (who may be talented, and may become a great, but isnt as of now) to become the "GOAT" when considering that he had many good team mates already he beat (one arguably better than Max), neither would even retrospectively applied greatness to Max make Hamilton the "GOAT" if he beats him, since the Greatest of All Time Discussion isnt exactly one that has clear criteria.

The only thing Hamilton would secure himself if he gets teamed up with and beats Max is upping his legacy a bit more by establishing himself as already bigger than the next generation. Usually the old guard stays long enough to be bettered by the new generation, so preventing this without running away would be a plus, but even that is not a necessity, Schumacher was also bettered by younger drivers at the end of his first career and it probably made no difference to his legacy.

Though, generally I dont think that either has that much to lose in terms of their legacy, unless one gets massively dominated. Or Max beats Lewis and turns out to be not that special later on. But I doubt that either of them wants to risk it, especially as it not only affects your legacy but also having a too strong team mate can be bad for the championship fight against others.



#4274 Pits

Pits
  • Member

  • 953 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 25 October 2019 - 20:46

Max is looking decent again, let's hope he can edge the Ferrari's tomorrow....

 

Crofty's commentary is ridiculous again, he's missing the plot completely compairing Albon Vs Max. Ted tried to set it straight but it didn't land with the knucklehead.

Almost as ridiculous as the tyres.....man these are crappy



#4275 Danyy

Danyy
  • Member

  • 2,229 posts
  • Joined: September 17

Posted 25 October 2019 - 20:49

As good as Max is tomorrow will need something special to edge the Ferrari power units, but he could still out race them if the Red Bull can beat them on deg. But if it does indeed rain tomorrow all bets are off ;)

#4276 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 10,761 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 26 October 2019 - 13:48

Verstappen said the would need to be half a second ahead on Friday to be even in contention for pole. They lose a full second on the straight vs Ferrari.

#4277 Kao18

Kao18
  • Member

  • 3,559 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 26 October 2019 - 19:22

Amazing pole lap by Max, even better to see him ahead of both ferrari's

Albon back to 5 to 6 tenths behind, he wont be happy about that and it wont increase his chances for that 2nd Bull next year for now.

#4278 Heyli

Heyli
  • Member

  • 2,989 posts
  • Joined: May 17

Posted 26 October 2019 - 19:29

I just hope he keeps it...



#4279 Danyy

Danyy
  • Member

  • 2,229 posts
  • Joined: September 17

Posted 26 October 2019 - 19:30

Being a bit harsh on albon he missed a session because of his own mistake but he looked good through parts of that session only 2 tenths of Max in the q2 I think. As for a Max and Honda I couldn’t be happier, Max was on his a game to beat the mighty Ferrari power units and Honda gave him the tools to do it! Let’s finish the job tomorrow!

Advertisement

#4280 Pits

Pits
  • Member

  • 953 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 26 October 2019 - 19:35

Great again from Max, what a lap!

He really is superb on this track!!

 

Also great to see that RB Honda can do the same als they could powered by a Renault

I wasn't to sure about that.



#4281 Arundo

Arundo
  • Member

  • 1,360 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 26 October 2019 - 20:21

Amazing pole by Max and Redbull, not at all expected.

Just a bit afraid the Ferrari's will steam by at the start. 



#4282 RacingGreen

RacingGreen
  • Member

  • 2,524 posts
  • Joined: March 17

Posted 26 October 2019 - 20:28

So did Max or Lewis speed under a yellow flag or not ?



#4283 Requiem84

Requiem84
  • Member

  • 6,039 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 26 October 2019 - 20:29

So did Max or Lewis speed under a yellow flag or not ?


Check the Mexico race topic.

#4284 Danyy

Danyy
  • Member

  • 2,229 posts
  • Joined: September 17

Posted 26 October 2019 - 20:47

FCBF43-AF-C545-47-AB-8438-02-DCE7-C14-DD
AA8-F636-C-DFAB-4-DAC-B02-A-8812-A621316

Edited by Danyy, 26 October 2019 - 20:49.


#4285 zanquis

zanquis
  • Member

  • 4,383 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 26 October 2019 - 22:58

Well took them long enough. Max was foolish, he wanted the record more than the pole it seems.

He got his wish, and now he can try and get a red car slipstream instead of giving them away.

Edited by zanquis, 27 October 2019 - 07:06.


#4286 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 34,204 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 26 October 2019 - 22:59

Might not be too bad actually. He 100 % would have lost the lead from P1.

#4287 phrank

phrank
  • Member

  • 1,247 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 26 October 2019 - 23:00

Nice, a very motivated Max for tomorrow's race



#4288 BJHF1

BJHF1
  • Member

  • 1,753 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 26 October 2019 - 23:49

Might not be too bad actually. He 100 % would have lost the lead from P1.


Or taken out by the super Mario crash bros behind.

#4289 RPM40

RPM40
  • Member

  • 11,164 posts
  • Joined: October 15

Posted 26 October 2019 - 23:51

Might not be too bad actually. He 100 % would have lost the lead from P1.

 

This might actually work out better for him in terms of track position. He would have been p3 anyway.



#4290 SonGoku

SonGoku
  • Member

  • 3,819 posts
  • Joined: July 17

Posted 26 October 2019 - 23:53

Indeed, I think Max is still in very good position how strange that sounds right now.

#4291 FLB

FLB
  • Member

  • 10,358 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 26 October 2019 - 23:56

It’s going to depend on the start. He’s quite agressive... to agressive sometimes.

#4292 HeadFirst

HeadFirst
  • Member

  • 3,531 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 27 October 2019 - 02:58

I thought Albon bounced back from his earlier crash impressively.



#4293 gillesfan76

gillesfan76
  • Member

  • 3,831 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 27 October 2019 - 03:45

Superb pole by Max.
Either incredibly stupid of him afterwards at the post-race conference or very smart. I’m guessing incredibly stupid because had he intentionally wanted a penalty to get slipstream at the start, he wouldn’t have said “Delete my last lap, the previous one is still good enough for pole.”
I actually think the penalty will give him a better chance tomorrow because it was almost guaranteed P3 had he started on pole.
Oh, and keeping his foot in it, risking the possibility of going off at the same spot as Valtteri and potentially seriously injuring both drivers or worse, was incredibly irresponsible.

#4294 Flasheart

Flasheart
  • Member

  • 183 posts
  • Joined: February 18

Posted 27 October 2019 - 04:35

It proves he’s just as reckless, and dangerous as he ever was. He should have been excluded from qualifying.

#4295 Kao18

Kao18
  • Member

  • 3,559 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 27 October 2019 - 06:30

This might actually work out better for him in terms of track position. He would have been p3 anyway.


Not sure if I agree. With a so so start he could also be p6 now. I would always want to start as high up as possible.

#4296 Kao18

Kao18
  • Member

  • 3,559 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 27 October 2019 - 06:49

I thought Albon bounced back from his earlier crash impressively.


How is qualifying almost 6 tenths slower and 5 places behind your teammate impressive?

I am not trying to burn Albon here but I feel a lot of people are applying double standards when it comes to Albon. Gasly would have been slated for crashing in free practice and qualifying that far behind.

Yes Albon is a rookie but he was brought in to see if he could do better than Gasly regardless and so far that is questionable at best. Could have and perhaps should have received a penalty for his overtake on Norris at Suzuka as well.

#4297 zanquis

zanquis
  • Member

  • 4,383 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 27 October 2019 - 07:05

It proves he’s just as reckless, and dangerous as he ever was. He should have been excluded from qualifying.


And whie you at in Leclerc should have a life ban after Suzuka, Vettel for his many stunts. And what to do with people who crash because they ignored the red light at the pitlane? Overdramatic much

#4298 JBJ

JBJ
  • Member

  • 266 posts
  • Joined: January 16

Posted 27 October 2019 - 08:10

Guess there should be a few Dutchies in here

 

Gratis F1TVpro als je een Ziggo Sport Totaal abbo hebt

 

https://www.ziggo.nl...o?ecmp=f1proapp



#4299 DeKnyff

DeKnyff
  • Member

  • 1,672 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 27 October 2019 - 08:41

Not that it matters much obviously. In the end, it´s the titles that count.

I don't thinks that's valid for motorsports. Circumstances have a fundamental importance on results.



Advertisement

#4300 shure

shure
  • Member

  • 1,483 posts
  • Joined: April 17

Posted 27 October 2019 - 08:44

Guess there should be a few Dutchies in here

 

Gratis F1TVpro als je een Ziggo Sport Totaal abbo hebt

 

https://www.ziggo.nl...o?ecmp=f1proapp

the link doesn't appear to be working, for me at least