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2019 Red Bull: Max Verstappen and friends vs the world. Oh, and there was Gasly too before Albon took over


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#4601 Roadhouse

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 17:13

It's hard to know really. RB have a better car now, than they had earlier in the season. So who knows what Gasly would have been able to do.

 

He also picked up points Max left on the table.

 

Either way, Albon gives a far better impression than Gasly ever did.

He's actually racing, instead of driving at an imaginary trackday.



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#4602 Marklar

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 17:32

It's hard to know really. RB have a better car now, than they had earlier in the season. So who knows what Gasly would have been able to do.

Red Bull had a great car before the summer break, better than what they had in the first races after the summer beak relative to the others.

Albon also had two backrow starts (one largely self-inflicted though)



#4603 Roadhouse

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 17:40

Red Bull had a great car before the summer break, better than what they had in the first races after the summer beak relative to the others.

Albon also had two backrow starts (one largely self-inflicted though)

 

Only the last 4 races though, starting with Austria.



#4604 ARTGP

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 23:04

Red Bull had a great car before the summer break, better than what they had in the first races after the summer beak relative to the others.

Albon also had two backrow starts (one largely self-inflicted though)

 

 

Agree to disagree. The only time the car was decent before the break was Austria and Hungary. 

 

Since then they have brought massive engine upgrades and more downforce. I don't know what Gasly would do in qualifying with the current car.  I also can't speak to his confidence in overtaking with the improved car. Presumable more engine power and better balance improves confidence.



#4605 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 01:30

Since then they have brought massive engine upgrades and more downforce. I don't know what Gasly would do in qualifying with the current car.  I also can't speak to his confidence in overtaking with the improved car. Presumable more engine power and better balance improves confidence.

 

I don't see any indication that Gasly has more potential than Albon.

 

Albon is the one in the Red Bull now and seems to be doing an adequate job.  :up:

 

Of course it would be better to have Ricciardo in the second Red Bull, but this seems to be impossible, at least for the 2020 season.



#4606 Gary Davies

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 08:49

Mattia Binotto confronted Christian Horner after the US GP and threatened him with legal action, according to the Spanish source Motorlat.

 

https://grandpx.news...-action-source/

 

Make of this what you will.



#4607 Kao18

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 09:02

Forgetting of course that Albon is a rookie (Gasly had a year under his belt), and in some cases racing on tracks he has not visited previously.

 

The fact that he is a rookie doesnt make him faster though.



#4608 Kao18

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 09:08

Mattia Binotto confronted Christian Horner after the US GP and threatened him with legal action, according to the Spanish source Motorlat.

 

https://grandpx.news...-action-source/

 

Make of this what you will.

 

Dont think that belongs in this thread.

 

Anyway good luck with that legal action because of a driver saying out loud what everyone thinks  :lol:



#4609 Roadhouse

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 09:10

The fact that he is a rookie doesnt make him faster though.

 

But it does mean he has way more potential.



#4610 Kao18

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 10:57

But it does mean he has way more potential.

 

Perhaps but its not like Gasly is an established veteran himself.

 

My post was a reaction to zanquis who says Albon has better one lap speed. At the moment this is not exactly true.

 

The difference between Max and Gasly and Max and Albon in qualifying is on average practically the same. And if we look at qualifying differences at Torro Roso Gasly is faster compared to Kvyat than Albon was.

 

Albon looks more decisive in overtaking but how much of that is down to the Red Bull being less of a diva currently than it was at times earlier in the season I do not know.

 

Albon probably deserves a bit extra credit because its his first season and he jumped in without proper pre season testing. Whether he really is the better driver is just not that clear for me. But Red Bull will probably stick with him, Horner has been very complimentary about him recently.


Edited by Kao18, 06 November 2019 - 11:01.


#4611 HeadFirst

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 17:31

Perhaps but its not like Gasly is an established veteran himself.

 

My post was a reaction to zanquis who says Albon has better one lap speed. At the moment this is not exactly true.

 

The difference between Max and Gasly and Max and Albon in qualifying is on average practically the same. And if we look at qualifying differences at Torro Roso Gasly is faster compared to Kvyat than Albon was.

 

Albon looks more decisive in overtaking but how much of that is down to the Red Bull being less of a diva currently than it was at times earlier in the season I do not know.

 

Albon probably deserves a bit extra credit because its his first season and he jumped in without proper pre season testing. Whether he really is the better driver is just not that clear for me. But Red Bull will probably stick with him, Horner has been very complimentary about him recently.

 

Let's just say that Pierre never looked really comfortable at RB, despite a year in F1 and the pre-season testing regime. Albon on the other hand has adapted well to the mid-season change of teams, despite the challenges he faces as a rookie. Both may have bright futures ahead of them, but at the moment Albon is the more impressive. IMHO anyway.



#4612 Sterzo

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 17:57

We don't yet know what level Albon will achieve, but he's already shown he's amazingly adaptable, and highly competent in wheel to wheel racing. A revelation.



#4613 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 18:11

We don't yet know what level Albon will achieve, but he's already shown he's amazingly adaptable, and highly competent in wheel to wheel racing. A revelation.

i think most importantly he never looks lost - and that was the problem with Gasly.



#4614 Requiem84

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 18:27

Also: Gasly went backwards instead of getting closer to Max.

#4615 Jerem

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 20:19

Also: Gasly went backwards instead of getting closer to Max.

But Max was kind of walking on water in the first half of the season, he became less stellar after the summer break.



#4616 Requiem84

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 20:29

But Max was kind of walking on water in the first half of the season, he became less stellar after the summer break.


Maybe in terms of staying out of trouble in races, but his q speed remains very strong.

#4617 Kao18

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 21:20

Also: Gasly went backwards instead of getting closer to Max.

Not in qualifying he didnt. The average gap was 0.47 seconds after the first 3 races, after Germany it was 0.41.

He finished 0.50 seconds behind Max on average after a poor showing in Hungary (all from the qualifying averages thread).

Like I said before Albon has been almost just as far of Max pace on average as Gasly. And if you want to apply that same logic Albon is going backwards as well after Japan.

Edited by Kao18, 06 November 2019 - 21:21.


#4618 ARTGP

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 22:48

Not in qualifying he didnt. The average gap was 0.47 seconds after the first 3 races, after Germany it was 0.41.

He finished 0.50 seconds behind Max on average after a poor showing in Hungary (all from the qualifying averages thread).

Like I said before Albon has been almost just as far of Max pace on average as Gasly. And if you want to apply that same logic Albon is going backwards as well after Japan.

 

 

I know that earlier in the season, Honda was getting miscellaneous power cuts in qualifying, and strange things with the throttle pedals. How it did or did not effect Max, Gasly, or Albon throws a wrench into the averages.

 

Honda and RB have been incredibly tight lipped about power unit glitches (for obvious reasons...), it's hard to know really from the outside.

 

I'd only feel comfortable saying Albon was quicker qualifier if I heard it from someone inside Red Bull.



#4619 chrisj

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 00:34

Dont think that belongs in this thread.

 

Anyway good luck with that legal action because of a driver saying out loud what everyone thinks  :lol:

 

You know libel and slander are against the law, right? Ferrari could certainly argue for damages to their reputation.



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#4620 Requiem84

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 06:05

You know libel and slander are against the law, right? Ferrari could certainly argue for damages to their reputation.


‘The law’.

Depends on which country :). Amd it depends on the local definition of libel and slander.

PR wise a court case will harm them much much more and it may make them obliged to reveal their PU workings.

Never gonna happen.

#4621 Gary Davies

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 07:08

Dont think that belongs in this thread.

 

Anyway good luck with that legal action because of a driver saying out loud what everyone thinks  :lol:

Might be best not to take everything strictly at face value. My interpretation of what Binotto said - if indeed he actually said it - was to respond because to simply suck up Verstappen's bold assertion in silence might be seen as some as an admission of guilt.



#4622 KevD

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 07:49

He specifally waited for the press to hear what he had to say and spoke with a loud voice in public. This was all show. If it was real there would be a written letter from their laywers.

#4623 chrisj

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 20:21

‘The law’.

Depends on which country :). Amd it depends on the local definition of libel and slander.

PR wise a court case will harm them much much more and it may make them obliged to reveal their PU workings.

Never gonna happen.

 

Oh God. He said it in the United States -- the most litigious country in the world — and Texas has the death penalty! 



#4624 Kao18

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 07:55

https://www.reuters....n-idUSKBN1XM0XF

Quote: "Of his relationship with Hamilton, Verstappen said the Briton was “very special and definitely one of the best drivers ever” and said he had never really had a problem with him."

Wait a minute, I was under the impression Max never says anything positive about Hamilton?

So Albon stays on for 2020, still not convinced but lets see, I guess he did ok. Besides, Kvyat has been somewhat erratic lately after a good first half of the season and promoting Gasly back up would probably have made them look clueless and indecisive.

#4625 Requiem84

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 08:19

https://www.reuters....n-idUSKBN1XM0XF

Quote: "Of his relationship with Hamilton, Verstappen said the Briton was “very special and definitely one of the best drivers ever” and said he had never really had a problem with him."

Wait a minute, I was under the impression Max never says anything positive about Hamilton?

So Albon stays on for 2020, still not convinced but lets see, I guess he did ok. Besides, Kvyat has been somewhat erratic lately after a good first half of the season and promoting Gasly back up would probably have made them look clueless and indecisive.


I would swear he said something similar after the race in Austin.

Wait, is that two positive things about Hamilton in 2 weeks??

#4626 Marklar

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 08:48

Didnt they agreed before the race in Austin to not destroy each other over the press? Now Max is too soft, dammit :p

#4627 BRG

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 17:24

https://www.reuters....n-idUSKBN1XM0XF

Quote: "Of his relationship with Hamilton, Verstappen said the Briton was “very special and definitely one of the best drivers ever” and said he had never really had a problem with him."

Wait a minute, I was under the impression Max never says anything positive about Hamilton?

Amazing what can happen when the team PR man has got your knackers in a pair of nutcrackers.  Don't worry, Max will soon let slip what he really thinks when the PR man has popped outside for a break.



#4628 Ivanhoe

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 17:35

Amazing what can happen when the team PR man has got your knackers in a pair of nutcrackers.  Don't worry, Max will soon let slip what he really thinks when the PR man has popped outside for a break.

Like the rest of the grid you mean, or is Max the exception to the rule?

 

to be honest, I think Max really thinks Lewis is one of the best ever and respects him for that, but also thinks that he’s just a little better. Basically, that’s what he said, nothing to do with PR. For the Ferrari cheating thing he probably got some advice, but I think he also realised himself that wasn’t the smartest thing to say. Difference between talking to Dutch media right after the race and taking to other media a bit later. He would never say such things to Sky.


Edited by Ivanhoe, 13 November 2019 - 17:35.


#4629 ElectricBoogie

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 18:20

Well, Max sees all the GPS traces and acoustic measurements. He knows how much he loses to Hamilton in a straight and, and how much of it he makes up. The driver will always think the other guy has a better car. And since he whipped qualy miracle and tyre whisperer Ricciardo, little reason to start doubting his own speed.



#4630 Marklar

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 18:25

Well, Max sees all the GPS traces and acoustic measurements. He knows how much he loses to Hamilton in a straight and, and how much of it he makes up. The driver will always think the other guy has a better car. And since he whipped qualy miracle and tyre whisperer Ricciardo, little reason to start doubting his own speed.

Since when does "gaining in corners" mean "driver makes time up"? Mercedes is usually quicker in corners even.

#4631 BRG

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 18:59

Like the rest of the grid you mean, or is Max the exception to the rule?

 

Well, they are all controlled by PR commissars, but I think some of the them are too canny to let slip what they really think.



#4632 KevD

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 22:15

Well, they are all controlled by PR commissars, but I think some of the them are too canny to let slip what they really think.

 

'Too canny...'? So you think that's a weakness, not a virtue? I think it's a relief to find someone who actually says what he thinks. As a matter of fact, who says what a lot of people think. But maybe it's a cultural thing.



#4633 Nobody

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 11:17

ALB race craft has looked Ricciar-desque
GAS was more early years Grosjean

#4634 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 19:10

Absolutely brilliant qualifying session from Max. Four push laps, four times fastest driver out there. Hopefully he can capitalise on it tomorrow. Bring it on!


Edited by FullOppositeLock, 16 November 2019 - 19:12.


#4635 geralt

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 19:18

From what Max said it seems like there was even more time in the car, but even so tomorrow is not gonna be a walk in the park. It'll be important to have a good start and stay ahead of Seb after turn 1 



#4636 A3

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 19:21

Great performance today in qualifying. For such a short track, more than a tenth is a big gap compared to previous poles.

And great to see Honda seems to be on par with the rest. :up:

#4637 Heyli

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 19:22

From what Max said it seems like there was even more time in the car, but even so tomorrow is not gonna be a walk in the park. It'll be important to have a good start and stay ahead of Seb after turn 1 

He was still slower than his lap in Q2, so there definitely was more in it. Still strong performance from Max, but the car is really good here as well!



#4638 Augurk

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 19:23

His second lap looked really cautious. There was definitely more time in there. But it wasns't necessary, so well done.  :up:  :cool:



#4639 A3

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 19:26

He was still slower than his lap in Q2, so there definitely was more in it. Still strong performance from Max, but the car is really good here as well!


Max said track temperatures changed a lot between sessions, so I don't think you can conclude there was more in it. If I'm not mistaken, only Lewis and Max improved in the 2nd Q3 run?

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#4640 Danyy

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 19:27

I’m just happy Max took Pole after the reactions from yesterday’s FP2 especially ;). Hoping for a great start and Max controlling the race tomorrow.

#4641 Heyli

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 19:30

Max said track temperatures changed a lot between sessions, so I don't think you can conclude there was more in it. If I'm not mistaken, only Lewis and Max improved in the 2nd Q3 run?

Max had quite a big mistake in his first run though... :)

 

Doesnt matter much anyway. His 2nd run in Q3 was definitely good (who cares if it was perfect or not), and the pole is there. 

 

How is start from P1 here? Ferrari on P2 is always risky.



#4642 A3

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 19:32

Luckily the Bulls got off the line pretty well in the last few races. Shouldn't be a big problem I hope.

#4643 Quickshifter

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 19:35

Albon nearly half a second off Verstappen on such a short track. Qualifying 6th and finishing 6th in a Red Bull is pretty much guaranteed if you finish the race. He has one more year to show what he is capable of.  Before anyone brings in Gasly, he is not the yardstick, Max is. I know he is a rookie but half a second is ages in f1.



#4644 Heyli

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 19:36

Luckily the Bulls got off the line pretty well in the last few races. Shouldn't be a big problem I hope.

True. We´ll see tomorrow :)



#4645 Danyy

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 19:38

Albon nearly half a second off Verstappen on such a short track. Qualifying 6th and finishing 6th in a Red Bull is pretty much guaranteed if you finish the race. He has one more year to show what he is capable of. Before anyone brings in Gasly, he is not the yardstick, Max is. I know he is a rookie but half a second is ages in f1.


Don’t be a Debby downer he almost took Bottas and he’ll actually start 5th. And it’s 4 tenths not nearly 5

Edited by Danyy, 16 November 2019 - 19:38.


#4646 Quickshifter

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 19:41

Don’t be a Debby downer he almost took Bottas and he’ll actually start 5th. And it’s 4 tenths not nearly 5

0.424 on one of the shortest tracks on the calendar. It is ages in F1. Plus he binned it once already in practice  like he has done several times this season. Bottas is not driving a Red Bull. So you can continue to sing kumbaya, i am just stating things as they are. If they are acceptable to you, good but i guess it won't be for Red Bull when Max wants to fight for championship next season. He has got the seat by default as the other two have already been tried out.


Edited by Quickshifter, 16 November 2019 - 19:43.


#4647 ForzaFormula

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 19:43

Max great pole maximizing the car to it's fulist, hopefully he can keep the race lead into turn 1 ahead of that rocket ferrari.

 

But Albon? Sorry but that is really awful pace around Interlagos to be that far of his team mate. Terrible...



#4648 gillesfan76

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 19:44

Fantastic qualifying by Max. Albon is decent in the race and aggressive, unlike Gasly, but his pace on Saturdays is nowhere. Even when Max made some pretty big errors, going off the track and losing tenths in one corner alone, he was still several tenths faster than Albon. Several tenths on a short track like this. It's just mad that they've signed him for another year when they had options like Hulkenberg. Madness.



#4649 Danyy

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 19:56

Yeah sure, most of you will be first to complain at Red Bull for getting rid of a rookie they drafted in mid season because he hasn’t immediately got on one of the hottest talents. He’s done what he has to in the races and he’s getting better in qualifying so please stop with the knee jerk reactions.

Edited by Danyy, 16 November 2019 - 19:57.


#4650 SonGoku

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 19:56

Albon is getting saved by the rookie excuse but that is also over next year. For some reason I see a lot of poles for Max and P5/P6 for Alex in the future.