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Ferrari 2019: Vettel vs Leclerc, Binotto vs shareholders, expectation vs reality


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#5651 Zilbert

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 12:05

Don't think it will look that much better if it was two seasons.

It's not about number of seasons, it's more about the car.



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#5652 Lights

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 12:31

It's not about number of seasons, it's more about the car.

 

The 2 seasons of Vettel's career where he's paired with Ricciardo and Leclerc, he's coincidentally not liking the car. 

 

The 1 season Raikkonen paired Alonso, he's coincidentally not liking the car.

 

I'm sensing a pattern.



#5653 Zilbert

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 12:51

The 2 seasons of Vettel's career where he's paired with Ricciardo and Leclerc, he's coincidentally not liking the car. 

 

The 1 season Raikkonen paired Alonso, he's coincidentally not liking the car.

 

I'm sensing a pattern.

Well Vettel didn't like '16 car much either. It's not really an excuse, not being adaptable is certainly a weakness, and both Vettel and Raikkonen are notorious for it. It doesn't mean they can't extract more speed from the car they like. But sure, they are simply naturally half a second slower than the best, believe what you want.



#5654 shure

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 08:49

The 2 seasons of Vettel's career where he's paired with Ricciardo and Leclerc, he's coincidentally not liking the car. 

 

The 1 season Raikkonen paired Alonso, he's coincidentally not liking the car.

 

I'm sensing a pattern.

The two seasons where he's beaten, he's not liking the car.  Coincidence or simply cause and effect?

 

If the pattern you're sensing is that Vettel and Kimi may have adaptability issues then I can go along with that



#5655 Lights

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 09:17

The two seasons where he's beaten, he's not liking the car. Coincidence or simply cause and effect?

If the pattern you're sensing is that Vettel and Kimi may have adaptability issues then I can go along with that

The pattern I'm sensing is that when he has quick teammates, him being slower is blamed on him not liking the car. And because he's only been in that situation for 2 seasons, that's apparently plausible.

But I really wonder how people would've judged Vettel by now had he paired drivers like Ricciardo and Leclerc for 80% of his career.

#5656 baddog

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 09:42

The pattern I'm sensing is that when he has quick teammates, him being slower is blamed on him not liking the car. And because he's only been in that situation for 2 seasons, that's apparently plausible.

But I really wonder how people would've judged Vettel by now had he paired drivers like Ricciardo and Leclerc for 80% of his career.

 

And if he had been paired with Alan Mcnish, Jarno Trulli, GianCarlo Fisichella, Nelson Piquet Jr, Felipe Massa, Kimi Raikkonen, Jenson Button, Stoffell Vandoorne? And lost to the only truly fast driver he ever faced, lost a season to another no-one thinks was more than 'good', and looked like losing till the team stepped in to one of those no-one thinks was fast at all? ;)

 

Obviously that is silly (calm down Fred fans he was better than all of them except lewis). but then Its all a bit silly to tear peoples careers to pieces the way it is done, taking their achievements as just handed on a plate (evidence being that they are **** so they can only have won with a huge advantage, therefore winning doesn't count) and their failures as evidence they are just **** and always were.



#5657 shure

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 11:15

The pattern I'm sensing is that when he has quick teammates, him being slower is blamed on him not liking the car. And because he's only been in that situation for 2 seasons, that's apparently plausible.

But I really wonder how people would've judged Vettel by now had he paired drivers like Ricciardo and Leclerc for 80% of his career.

But I'm wondering why it should make a difference?  If he's not good at adapting then clearly that's a weakness in his arsenal and that makes him less complete than other drivers.  But it's pretty obvious that he can put in a decent turn of speed on occasion.  The alternative in saying he's always been slow doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.  If we do the whole Driver A > Driver B > Driver C > Driver A thing then we get to a scenario where both Hamilton and Alonso are also very slow and Max and Leclerc are the only truly fast drivers in F1.  But hopefully most people would consider that to be nonsense.