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Ferrari 2019: Vettel vs Leclerc, Binotto vs shareholders, expectation vs reality


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#6951 1Devil1

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 10:12

It's not even debatable. Time for Charles to raise the bar again because Seb has.

 

I am bit gutted, with a good start from Vettel and Leclerc and win would be possible, but it would have been hard nevertheless with a second stop race. Vettel seemed to find his speed back, never thought he would outqualify Leclerc for pole this season (again).  :up:



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#6952 RPM40

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 10:27

Yeah I doubt the win was ever one which makes it a great save from a clumsy error at the start.

For Charles, a shocker to forget.

Vettel really did beat his teammate in ALL regards this weekend.


No doubt. First weekend in a while you could say he had the better pace and better race.

#6953 RPM40

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 10:27

I am bit gutted, with a good start from Vettel and Leclerc and win would be possible, but it would have been hard nevertheless with a second stop race. Vettel seemed to find his speed back, never thought he would outqualify Leclerc for pole this season (again). :up:


Didn’t see a win as possible. Merc had much better pace in general and they had both cars in play meaning they could alternate 1-2 stop.

#6954 baddog

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 20:17

We all have to stop agreeing it feels wrong ;)



#6955 beachdrifter

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 21:38

I am bit gutted, with a good start from Vettel and Leclerc and win would be possible, but it would have been hard nevertheless with a second stop race. Vettel seemed to find his speed back, never thought he would outqualify Leclerc for pole this season (again).  :up:

 

He may lack the flexibility/adaptability that other drivers have, but when he feels good in the car, he's tough to beat. 



#6956 dissident

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 22:02

Didn't think I'd be as surprised as I was after the 1-2 in Qualy 10 seconds after the race start, but MissionWinNever strikes again, I guess.  :lol:


Edited by dissident, 13 October 2019 - 22:18.


#6957 Anuity

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 22:08

All in all it has been a good run during the last few races. It’s nice to see Seb being back from vacation as well.
Did Ferrari even ever got 5 straight poles during Michale’s time?

#6958 as65p

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:47

Seb won this fair and square on speed, and overall as they both made one crucial mistake. I would say without both drivers mistake, the chance for another win was definitely there. if they'd finished the first lap 1-2 or at least 1-3, as they should have, everything was possible.



#6959 Arundo

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:48

Wonder what Ferrari will do if Vettel decides to leave or retire, Leclerc shows clearly he's not yet ready to lead the team. 



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#6960 SCUDmissile

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 11:15

Wonder what Ferrari will do if Vettel decides to leave or retire, Leclerc shows clearly he's not yet ready to lead the team.


Probably pack up and fold, start selling ice creams or something

#6961 Cyanide

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 11:19

Well, that was utter shite. 

 

Charles needs to cool off and find the momentum again. His last two races weren't particularly impressive and Seb seems back on the high again. 



#6962 HPT

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 11:51

Wonder what Ferrari will do if Vettel decides to leave or retire, Leclerc shows clearly he's not yet ready to lead the team.


Vettel led the team in 2017 and 2018. Didn’t get the results they had hoped for, did they? It’s just one bad race for Leclerc. Relax :)

#6963 goldenboy

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 12:42

Well, that was utter shite.

Charles needs to cool off and find the momentum again. His last two races weren't particularly impressive and Seb seems back on the high again.

Seb has an uncanny little knack for stopping team mates on a roll with a little bit of controversy.

#6964 as65p

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 13:18

Wonder what Ferrari will do if Vettel decides to leave or retire, Leclerc shows clearly he's not yet ready to lead the team. 

 

Well, Vettel has become less ready to lead a team ever since 2013, so at a very near point in time the trajectories will meet... if they haven't already. The obvious alternatives are not available, so the best Ferrari can hope for is Leclercs arc continuing to point upwards, for which the chances are quite good, nevermind one shitty race once in a while, everyone has them.



#6965 as65p

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 13:22

Well, that was utter shite. 

 

Charles needs to cool off and find the momentum again. His last two races weren't particularly impressive and Seb seems back on the high again. 

 

Messing up your start is not exactly fitting with that description. Vettel seems to have gathered back some speed, but still, yet another unforced mistake.



#6966 robefc

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 13:28

Yeah I doubt the win was ever one which makes it a great save from a clumsy error at the start.

 

For Charles, a shocker to forget.

 

Vettel really did beat his teammate in ALL regards this weekend.

 

I enjoyed some of his overtaking, for me he showed something that I wasn't sure about beforehand. Gives me confidence that he has the racecraft to take it to Max as well as speed etc. Talking as someone who will probably be a neutral when Lewis retires so would love to see Charles v Max live up to the hype longer term.



#6967 SCUDmissile

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 13:49

I enjoyed some of his overtaking, for me he showed something that I wasn't sure about beforehand. Gives me confidence that he has the racecraft to take it to Max as well as speed etc. Talking as someone who will probably be a neutral when Lewis retires so would love to see Charles v Max live up to the hype longer term.

They hated eachother in the karting days, and tbh I think while they are more civil, it's still no love lost.

They've been the main rivals to eachother for their entire lives, it's crazy when you think about it.

There will be heavy fireworks in the future, I am sure of that

Edited by SCUDmissile, 14 October 2019 - 13:49.


#6968 Cyanide

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 14:42

Messing up your start is not exactly fitting with that description. Vettel seems to have gathered back some speed, but still, yet another unforced mistake.

 

Yeah, he messed up his start but on race pace and tyre management I think he still has the upper hand on Leclerc. That's an area Charles really needs to put some work into. 



#6969 Klauzer

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 21:05

Messing up your start is not exactly fitting with that description. Vettel seems to have gathered back some speed, but still, yet another unforced mistake.

 

It was weird how both Ferrari drivers had a bad start. I know Vettel admitted he made a mistake, but it's not often we see teammates like that get off the line badly. In any case Mercedes had huge pace advantage in the race so it's probably a moot point because 2 stops & better tyre wear would have given Merc plenty of room for manoeuvre to get in front. 



#6970 RPM40

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 21:15

Wonder what Ferrari will do if Vettel decides to leave or retire, Leclerc shows clearly he's not yet ready to lead the team.


Based on what? One error? Vettel out qualifying him once in ten races?

Vettel has made far more errors of late and showed generally less pace. They’ll be fine

#6971 shure

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 21:43

It was weird how both Ferrari drivers had a bad start. I know Vettel admitted he made a mistake, but it's not often we see teammates like that get off the line badly. In any case Mercedes had huge pace advantage in the race so it's probably a moot point because 2 stops & better tyre wear would have given Merc plenty of room for manoeuvre to get in front. 

I agree that the Mercs looked to be comfortably quicker in race pace, but there again Hamilton couldn't make a dent in Vettel so if Seb had kept the lead from the start it's not impossible he would have finished first



#6972 Marklar

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 21:46

It was weird how both Ferrari drivers had a bad start. I know Vettel admitted he made a mistake, but it's not often we see teammates like that get off the line badly. 

Leclerc had most likely a bad start because he was reacting to Vettel stopping. or at least he said something along the lines
 

Unfortunately for them Bottas had it the other way around, he reacted clearly to Vettel's jump start which timed his start almost perfectly with the starting lights.

The first driver to actually react to the starting lights only was probably Hamilton.



#6973 goldenboy

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 22:12

Leclerc had most likely a bad start because he was reacting to Vettel stopping. or at least he said something along the lines

Unfortunately for them Bottas had it the other way around, he reacted clearly to Vettel's jump start which timed his start almost perfectly with the starting lights.

The first driver to actually react to the starting lights only was probably Hamilton.

This is the first I've heard of that?

#6974 Marklar

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 22:18

This is the first I've heard of that?

 

“With the start, I had a poor start,” said Leclerc. “I got a little bit distracted. I saw Seb moving a little bit. Then my reaction time was very poor.

“The actual start was not so bad, but the reaction was very poor

https://www.motorspo...m/news/id/24840


With Bottas it's very obvious on his onboard, he releases the clutch exactly with the starting light, which is impossible if you react to the starting light. However the time he took to release the clutch fits perfectly as a normal reaction time to Vettel moving. Ferrari also mentiond this in AMuS.


Edited by Marklar, 14 October 2019 - 22:19.


#6975 HPT

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 22:32

https://www.motorspo...m/news/id/24840


With Bottas it's very obvious on his onboard, he releases the clutch exactly with the starting light, which is impossible if you react to the starting light. However the time he took to release the clutch fits perfectly as a normal reaction time to Vettel moving. Ferrari also mentiond this in AMuS.


I know things like this happen. There was a MotoGP race this year - I forgot which one - where several riders around each other had jump starts because Miller or Cal started moving and they all reacted to him instinctively. Ended up with something like five jump start penalties.

#6976 JBJ

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 07:42

This been posted ?    :p 

https://twitter.com/...173341839507457



#6977 CoolBreeze

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:36

I am happy that Seb is back. His confidence has really increased. I hope he can score 1-2 more wins at least this seaosn



#6978 Ramon69

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 18:01

I too am happy that Seb is back, but the old problems remain at Ferrari: team fails to react, drivers make mistakes (even if small ones), the is not working or is working , but a bit too late (like now). 100 championships could take place and Mercedes will win every single one even with equal cars to Ferrari, because Ferrari just isn't ready to win, as a whole. Like Seb said, they need to WORK BETTER! But when will this happen, if ever, who knows? 


Edited by Ramon69, 19 October 2019 - 18:01.


#6979 CoolBreeze

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 08:29

I too am happy that Seb is back, but the old problems remain at Ferrari: team fails to react, drivers make mistakes (even if small ones), the is not working or is working , but a bit too late (like now). 100 championships could take place and Mercedes will win every single one even with equal cars to Ferrari, because Ferrari just isn't ready to win, as a whole. Like Seb said, they need to WORK BETTER! But when will this happen, if ever, who knows? 

 

Another issues is, the window or margin of error Ferrari has is extremely small. Therefore as you pointed out, they need to iron all this out quickly, if they want to challenge Merc for 2020. 



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#6980 SCUDmissile

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 15:05

CLACE by CL  :lol: The new collection:

 

https://pbs.twimg.co...OB_X0AA1ULV.jpg

 

https://pbs.twimg.co...OB4WsAIZldD.jpg



#6981 SCUDmissile

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 10:44

I have a feeling that the new update and Charles form has caused Vettel to hit an even higher level.

This is what we want to see, 2 great drivers pushing eachother to improve.

Now the onus is on Charles to find some pace and continue to improve.

#6982 xtremeclock

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 19:31

Tough luck for Seb, he was again quicker than Charles but had to lift respecting the yellow flags.

 

Still....it was another good performance.



#6983 dissident

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 19:38

Eh, not very optimistic for tomorrow even if P2-P3 are probably the best starting positions given the long run to T1.

 

Max is plain quicker and Mercedes will probably have better race pace (well, Lewis), so I don't expect more than one of our drivers on the podium.



#6984 Perfection

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 19:56

Eh, not very optimistic for tomorrow even if P2-P3 are probably the best starting positions given the long run to T1.

 

Max is plain quicker and Mercedes will probably have better race pace (well, Lewis), so I don't expect more than one of our drivers on the podium.

 

 

lowering expectations? Ferraris are favorite for the win no doubt !!



#6985 RPM40

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 19:56

Tough luck for Seb, he was again quicker than Charles but had to lift respecting the yellow flags.

Still....it was another good performance.


Charles was faster when it mattered, as usua

#6986 SCUDmissile

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 19:57

Well, I guess it's better to not be on pole this race?

#6987 Klauzer

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 19:59

Charles was faster when it mattered, as usua

 

That's crazy. We'll never know the true pace due to very small errors (from both drivers) & the Bottas incident. Tomorrow I still favor Ferrari for the win but that front row is explosive between Leclerc & Verstappen. It's going to be an interesting race, in any case. Today's quali is definitely not a case to condemn any driver or praise another. 


Edited by Klauzer, 26 October 2019 - 20:00.


#6988 Perfection

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 20:00

Vettel failed to set a good banker lap, and paid the price, but still his starting position is very favoring. Wouldn't be surprising to see him leading after lap 1.



#6989 Klauzer

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 20:09

Vettel failed to set a good banker lap, and paid the price, but still his starting position is very favoring. Wouldn't be surprising to see him leading after lap 1.

 

I'm also certain that Merc is very fast & will become a real factor for the race win. But seriously, as f1 fans this is what we want, i.e. looking at the starting grid & just guessing really with regards to "who" from the front 4 will win the race. I wouldn't blindly put my money on anyone, tbh .Leclerc should get p1 at turn 1, but that's as far as my future seeing predictions go. 



#6990 xtremeclock

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 20:12

Charles was faster when it mattered, as usua

 

No he wasn't....he made a mistake in his last attempt (S3 20.194), he only finished ahead because Seb had to lift after he saw the yellow flag.

 

And you know that....



#6991 Heyli

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 20:21

No he wasn't....he made a mistake in his last attempt (S3 20.194), he only finished ahead because Seb had to lift after he saw the yellow flag.

 

And you know that....

He said it was because they changed the balance which helped in the first 2 sectors, but hurt him in the 3rd. Did he make an obvious error?



#6992 Klauzer

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 20:49

He said it was because they changed the balance which helped in the first 2 sectors, but hurt him in the 3rd. Did he make an obvious error?

 

Weren't you watching? Leclerc ran wide at the final section of his lap. He was done after that. Vettel meanwhile had his second attempt ruined by the yellow flags caused by Bottas binning his Merc. 



#6993 Heyli

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 20:52

Weren't you watching? Leclerc ran wide at the final section of his lap. He was done after that. Vettel meanwhile had his second attempt ruined by the yellow flags caused by Bottas binning his Merc. 

I was watching, but I still missed a few things...

 

I did see Vettel lifting, but I missed Leclerc running wide. My bad...



#6994 dissident

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 21:08

lowering expectations? Ferraris are favorite for the win no doubt !!

 

I don't think so, with a few exceptions Ferrari has clearly been slower on Sunday vs Saturday.

 

Even if Max is behind the 2 cars after the start I'm not confident. 



#6995 baddog

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 21:47

Charles was faster when it mattered, as usua

 

While Seb indeed didn't set as good a banker lap and therefore lost a likely pole and certain second when he was unlucky with lap two (after his teammate flubbed his second run), your posts about this are getting sad now.

 

Maybe dial it back a bit?



#6996 RPM40

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 21:59

While Seb indeed didn't set as good a banker lap and therefore lost a likely pole and certain second when he was unlucky with lap two (after his teammate flubbed his second run), your posts about this are getting sad now.

Maybe dial it back a bit?

Unless you have a crystal ball you have no way of knowing that. Did you not see Bottas error at the last turn? Charles was faster in the laps that counted as he usually is.

Edited by RPM40, 26 October 2019 - 22:05.


#6997 RPM40

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 22:01

Vettel failed to set a good banker lap, and paid the price, but still his starting position is very favoring. Wouldn't be surprising to see him leading after lap 1.


Indeed, always the risk of a yellow or something going wrong. If Charles lap does indeed become pole it’s probably the worse starting position.

#6998 TurnOffTheLights

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 22:09

Unless you have a crystal ball you have no way of knowing that. Charles was faster in the laps that counted as he usually is.


So Charles knew his 2nd attempt wouldn't count?
Usually the 2nd attempt is the more important one. Vettel was quicker in that one, Charles made a mistake under pressure. Bottas binning it had nothing to do with Leclerc's or Vettel's performances but it was the only thing that denied Vettel an intra-team win today.

Charles was very, very lucky today. Should have been P4 maximum.

#6999 Marklar

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 22:22

To be fair Vettel should have made a better banker lap because yellow flags always can happen, but indeed, Leclerc got very lucky here. In the end he was the only driver who had two legal laps and he didnt made the 2nd one work.



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#7000 Heyli

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 22:27

To be fair Vettel should have made a better banker lap because yellow flags always can happen, but indeed, Leclerc got very lucky here. In the end he was the only driver who had two legal laps and he didnt made the 2nd one work.

Albon did as well, but it still seems like a normal habbit to ignore the 2nd RB driver... :)