Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 6 votes

Ferrari 2019: Vettel vs Leclerc, Binotto vs shareholders, expectation vs reality


  • Please log in to reply
8092 replies to this topic

#7951 wj_gibson

wj_gibson
  • Member

  • 3,379 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 24 December 2019 - 11:17

Next year will be very important to Vettel but I am not sure it will be more pressure than he has had in the past.

Vettel comes from a modest background. His only way up was through Red Bull.

 

Marko wields the axe with great glee whenever a driver doesn't perform to his exacting standards so Vettel survived years of having to prove himself repeatedly.

I tend to feel that Vettel got an easier ride in Red Bull - and considerably more freedom to make mistakes - than some others have.



Advertisement

#7952 1Devil1

1Devil1
  • Member

  • 5,195 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 24 December 2019 - 11:18

9 m is a lot for 2 GP wins and not being quite yet established. I'm quite sure there are clauses in this contract that will increase his salary massively if certain things happen

 

No team will pay 40 million just for potential. Vettel got this contract when he was still regarded highly. It's a good deal for Leclerc and Ferrari they will pay him more when the time will come. It would be ridiculous to push his wage up in the second year. As it would be ridiculous from Ferrari to pay Vettel the same amount as today if they decide to extend his contract after 2020. 



#7953 1Devil1

1Devil1
  • Member

  • 5,195 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 24 December 2019 - 11:23

I tend to feel that Vettel got an easier ride in Red Bull - and considerably more freedom to make mistakes - than some others have.

 

Vettel made mistakes when he was at Red Bull but never that amount as you see him making today. But people forget that the margin of Red Bull over the field was smaller than most of the times Mercedes had in their domination. When the heat was on, Vettel got his act together. This he always makes mistakes narrative was forced after 2017 and 2018. People seem to forget 2010 and 2012 he came back from huge deficits 



#7954 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 22,175 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 24 December 2019 - 11:32

No team will pay 40 million just for potential.

 

Well, they did pay Vettel for potential. The potential to do in a Ferrari what he did in the RB '11 to '14. In a way every salary is based on potential for the future. Past success is a pointer at best, no more. As Ferrari found out by now, I guess.

 

Vettel got this contract when he was still regarded highly. It's a good deal for Leclerc and Ferrari they will pay him more when the time will come. It would be ridiculous to push his wage up in the second year. As it would be ridiculous from Ferrari to pay Vettel the same amount as today if they decide to extend his contract after 2020.

 

Exactly.



#7955 goldenboy

goldenboy
  • Member

  • 6,475 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 24 December 2019 - 12:00

Hilarious that people would even float the idea of Vettel being submissive to a number 2 role. The guy that threatened lawyers to his red bull team after multi 21 lol. NEVER gonna happen.

I don't like the guy, but also don't blame him for not wanting to accept that. However, since then, he has been smashed by Ric and did so well against Leclerc that they signed the kid up for 5 years.

Writing is on the wall.

#7956 grunf77

grunf77
  • Member

  • 292 posts
  • Joined: October 16

Posted 24 December 2019 - 12:09

I don't like the guy,

We got it. :lol:



#7957 goldenboy

goldenboy
  • Member

  • 6,475 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 24 December 2019 - 12:11

We got it. :lol:

You think he would accept number two role? Or do you disagree with me?

Sounds pretty stupid to me.

Edited by goldenboy, 24 December 2019 - 12:12.


#7958 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 15,215 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 24 December 2019 - 12:13

If you are smart enough to understand the context, I was talking about future contracts post-Ferrari which was the point of the conversation: the future. Nobody cares how he got his past contracts.

 

FortiFord was comparing Vettel's current contract to the one Leclerc has signed now and the presumed values. THAT is context. There was no mention of a future Vettel contract which would maintain the discrepancy between what Leclerc and him will presumably earn in 2020.

 

Maybe you're day dreaming some future scenario where Vettel tries to renew with Ferrari or get another top seat. We're not there yet. Until then, that's not context, it's guesswork.  :wave:



#7959 goldenboy

goldenboy
  • Member

  • 6,475 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 24 December 2019 - 12:18

FortiFord was comparing Vettel's current contract to the one Leclerc has signed now and the presumed values. THAT is context. There was no mention of a future Vettel contract which would maintain the discrepancy between what Leclerc and him will presumably earn in 2020.

Maybe you're day dreaming some future scenario where Vettel tries to renew with Ferrari or get another top seat. We're not there yet. Until then, that's not context, it's guesswork. :wave:

Yep. If Vettel signed another 50 mil or whatever contract it would be weird. But until then, he got paid his worth at the time, as did Leclerc just recently.

Obviously Vettels worth is on the way down while Charles is on the way up, but it takes more than a year head to head against Vettel to have the same leverage that guy had back in 2013/14

Advertisement

#7960 FortiFord

FortiFord
  • Member

  • 43 posts
  • Joined: December 19

Posted 24 December 2019 - 14:05

Yep. If Vettel signed another 50 mil or whatever contract it would be weird. But until then, he got paid his worth at the time, as did Leclerc just recently.

Obviously Vettels worth is on the way down while Charles is on the way up, but it takes more than a year head to head against Vettel to have the same leverage that guy had back in 2013/14

 

Vettel's current contract was actually negotiated in 2017:

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...rmula1/41060743

 

Ironically, just a few months after this Marchionne expressed his unhappiness at Vettel's errors during the season:

 

https://www.foxsport...rror-criticism/

 

In my view, Ferrari faces a similar problem to what they had in 2008 and 2009 with Kimi (i.e. a number 1 driver on a lucrative contract not performing as well as expected). Back in 2009 Ferrari thought it was worthwhile to pay Kimi to not drive for 1 year in order to get Alonso in the car 1 year early. This time around, Ferrari don't think it's worth going through early termination with Vettel, partly because Leclerc is showing good potential and is already locked down for the future, plus the fact that Hamilton and Verstappen are not immediately available. My view is that Ferrari will simply allow Vettel's contract to expire and they will depart on relatively good terms.



#7961 MikeV1987

MikeV1987
  • Member

  • 6,119 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 24 December 2019 - 14:09

9 mi doesn’t seem like that much but he probably has some nice bonuses if he gets good results. Similar to what RBR does.

Vettel is not worth the 40-50 mil, no driver is.

Edited by MikeV1987, 24 December 2019 - 14:10.


#7962 sabjit

sabjit
  • Member

  • 1,764 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 24 December 2019 - 14:26

9 mi doesn’t seem like that much but he probably has some nice bonuses if he gets good results. Similar to what RBR does.

Vettel is not worth the 40-50 mil, no driver is.

 

I don't think that is true.



#7963 anyeis

anyeis
  • Member

  • 1,598 posts
  • Joined: June 15

Posted 24 December 2019 - 14:37

Leclerc dosent care about if he signs that deal so early..

#7964 Flyhigh

Flyhigh
  • Member

  • 1,316 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 24 December 2019 - 15:08

This time around I think Ferrari are playing their cards right with the drivers, they are saving Leclerc for a good while as they should, considering they "discorvered" Leclerc thanks to Sergio´s death wish and not Arrivabene and the structure at the time. Now With Vettel they are right no point in redoing a Kimi/Alonso 2009. Let Vettel fight for his life as long as it doesn´t become self destructive for the team like trying to screw Leclerc at all costs and they will have his contract nice and over by 2020. 

Now they have to be really careful for 2021, to me it would be a huge mistake to put all the eggs on Leclerc basket, they need a strong other driver Hamilton ideally or at least Ricciardo, it would be good even for Leclerc to have another hungry experienced driver along side him because it would only raise his game and technical abilities further, push him. To leave him in the comfort zone as a leading driver moving forward for several would not be good, he has plenty of time to become that no need to give it instantly.   


Edited by Flyhigh, 24 December 2019 - 15:12.


#7965 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 35,268 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 24 December 2019 - 15:13

Vettel's current contract was actually negotiated in 2017:

https://www.bbc.co.u...rmula1/41060743

Ironically, just a few months after this Marchionne expressed his unhappiness at Vettel's errors during the season:

https://www.foxsport...rror-criticism/

In my view, Ferrari faces a similar problem to what they had in 2008 and 2009 with Kimi (i.e. a number 1 driver on a lucrative contract not performing as well as expected). Back in 2009 Ferrari thought it was worthwhile to pay Kimi to not drive for 1 year in order to get Alonso in the car 1 year early. This time around, Ferrari don't think it's worth going through early termination with Vettel, partly because Leclerc is showing good potential and is already locked down for the future, plus the fact that Hamilton and Verstappen are not immediately available. My view is that Ferrari will simply allow Vettel's contract to expire and they will depart on relatively good terms.

think that has more to do that unlike 2009 nobody was available

#7966 thefinalapex

thefinalapex
  • Member

  • 1,099 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 24 December 2019 - 16:14

This time around I think Ferrari are playing their cards right with the drivers, they are saving Leclerc for a good while as they should, considering they "discorvered" Leclerc thanks to Sergio´s death wish and not Arrivabene and the structure at the time. Now With Vettel they are right no point in redoing a Kimi/Alonso 2009. Let Vettel fight for his life as long as it doesn´t become self destructive for the team like trying to screw Leclerc at all costs and they will have his contract nice and over by 2020. 

Now they have to be really careful for 2021, to me it would be a huge mistake to put all the eggs on Leclerc basket, they need a strong other driver Hamilton ideally or at least Ricciardo, it would be good even for Leclerc to have another hungry experienced driver along side him because it would only raise his game and technical abilities further, push him. To leave him in the comfort zone as a leading driver moving forward for several would not be good, he has plenty of time to become that no need to give it instantly.   

 

A Leclerc/Vettel pairing is a very strong line up, so i dont see a reason to change it. Verstappen/Leclerc wont fit and you need to pay Hamilton even more then Vettel currently so i don't see that happen either. Vettel just needs to take a pay cut(and a mental coach) and your good to go for a couple of years. Get Sainz after Vettel retires in 3-5 years.



#7967 Mauseri

Mauseri
  • Member

  • 7,634 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 24 December 2019 - 16:33

9 m is a lot for 2 GP wins and not being quite yet established. I'm quite sure there are clauses in this contract that will increase his salary massively if certain things happen

Also 5 years is quite a lot for the record. I feel this is their own 1B driver like Massa was and Ferrari is looking at something better yet.

#7968 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 35,268 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 24 December 2019 - 17:29

Also 5 years is quite a lot for the record. I feel this is their own 1B driver like Massa was and Ferrari is looking at something better yet.

Leclerc looks way more promising than Massa ever was.

This is a lot more comparable to Hamilton back then at McLaren (even if not quite as much, Lewis was a level more impressive imo, but the salary and contract length is identical), the question is really if Ferrari has the same confidence in its young driver as McLaren had back then. As in, will they hire their own Kovalainen or a 1A/B as you say.

Edited by Marklar, 24 December 2019 - 17:33.


#7969 goldenboy

goldenboy
  • Member

  • 6,475 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 24 December 2019 - 20:57

9 mi doesn’t seem like that much but he probably has some nice bonuses if he gets good results. Similar to what RBR does.

Vettel is not worth the 40-50 mil, no driver is.

Definitely disagree. If an athlete is responsible for hundreds of millions (or whatever) increase in sales for a business, I see no problem with them being paid accordingly.

Especially for F1, where I consider it more of a business than a sport now.

#7970 baddog

baddog
  • Member

  • 27,603 posts
  • Joined: June 99

Posted 24 December 2019 - 21:46

I tend to feel that Vettel got an easier ride in Red Bull - and considerably more freedom to make mistakes - than some others have.

 

Yes but that is always what people think if they don't like someone and want to back that up by diminishing their earlier career, but it makes no sense. Why the hell would RB give Vettel an easier ride than others, except that he was delivering and others weren't?

 

The same arguments get made about other drivers.



#7971 wj_gibson

wj_gibson
  • Member

  • 3,379 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 24 December 2019 - 22:17

Yes but that is always what people think if they don't like someone and want to back that up by diminishing their earlier career, but it makes no sense. Why the hell would RB give Vettel an easier ride than others, except that he was delivering and others weren't?

 

The same arguments get made about other drivers.

No, I think Marko let him off with things because his team mate was someone who had not come through the Red Bull junior programme. I think that there was a need to legitimise the junior programme at that point.

 

Turkey 2010 being a very obvious case in point.

 

Had that Turkey incident been the Toro Rosso drivers rather than the RBR ones then IMO there would have been hell on.

 

That’s nothing to do with liking or not liking Vettel.


Edited by wj_gibson, 24 December 2019 - 22:18.


#7972 baddog

baddog
  • Member

  • 27,603 posts
  • Joined: June 99

Posted 24 December 2019 - 23:04

No, I think Marko let him off with things because his team mate was someone who had not come through the Red Bull junior programme. I think that there was a need to legitimise the junior programme at that point.

 

 

 

That's a hell of a reach to be honest. 



#7973 Mauseri

Mauseri
  • Member

  • 7,634 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 24 December 2019 - 23:07

Leclerc looks way more promising than Massa ever was.

This is a lot more comparable to Hamilton back then at McLaren (even if not quite as much, Lewis was a level more impressive imo, but the salary and contract length is identical), the question is really if Ferrari has the same confidence in its young driver as McLaren had back then. As in, will they hire their own Kovalainen or a 1A/B as you say.

Leclerc may well be an improved version of Massa. So far I don't think he has shown enough to be teams sole head, but enough to be up there winning races and taking pole positions. I understood Ferrari is looking for a fast and experienced teammate for Leclerc. Not like the Red Bull slow and inexperienced number 2.

Edited by Mauseri, 24 December 2019 - 23:08.


#7974 HPT

HPT
  • Member

  • 1,616 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 25 December 2019 - 00:10

Yes but that is always what people think if they don't like someone and want to back that up by diminishing their earlier career, but it makes no sense. Why the hell would RB give Vettel an easier ride than others


Did you really not see the preference Red Bull shown towards Vettel compared to Webber, who was the Red Bull driver ahead in the championship standings until the last race of 2010? I think the entire world saw that. Just because someone points it out doesn’t mean he dislikes or wants to diminish Vettel’s achievements.

#7975 baddog

baddog
  • Member

  • 27,603 posts
  • Joined: June 99

Posted 25 December 2019 - 00:36

Did you really not see the preference Red Bull shown towards Vettel compared to Webber, who was the Red Bull driver ahead in the championship standings until the last race of 2010? I think the entire world saw that. Just because someone points it out doesn’t mean he dislikes or wants to diminish Vettel’s achievements.

 

 He was quick on his good days/when the car suited him and did well in mid 2010 to take good advantage of a run of good races yes, (and is generally unfairly dismissed as a journeyman and no challenge, amusingly enough usually by those who are having a bash at Vettel) but the team simply favoured the  better driver (and the world agreed, I cant find a driver ranking for 2010 that rates Webber above his teammate or even in the top 3). By the end of the season Webber was fading badly, as Racefans has it 'Over the final five races of the year he trailed Vettel for all but three laps – and those were only when Vettel pitted before him.'

 

The team had no reason to favour Vettel other than they thought he was the better driver. I mean really, to make their development programme look good? As if they have ever shown a sign of giving a stuff about that?



#7976 thefinalapex

thefinalapex
  • Member

  • 1,099 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 25 December 2019 - 00:50

Webber cracked in korea 2010 and that crash ruined his campaign.

#7977 HPT

HPT
  • Member

  • 1,616 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 25 December 2019 - 02:11

He was quick on his good days/when the car suited him and did well in mid 2010 to take good advantage of a run of good races yes, (and is generally unfairly dismissed as a journeyman and no challenge, amusingly enough usually by those who are having a bash at Vettel) but the team simply favoured the better driver (and the world agreed, I cant find a driver ranking for 2010 that rates Webber above his teammate or even in the top 3). By the end of the season Webber was fading badly, as Racefans has it 'Over the final five races of the year he trailed Vettel for all but three laps – and those were only when Vettel pitted before him.'

The team had no reason to favour Vettel other than they thought he was the better driver. I mean really, to make their development programme look good? As if they have ever shown a sign of giving a stuff about that?


Webber did fade badly at the end of the season but the preferential treatment was evident way before that. Turkey was a good example. If you just saw the way Horner acted with Vettel at the pit wall after the crash without seeing the crash itself you’d think that Vettel was the victim.

Not sure why we are talking about rankings but I do not rank Webber ahead of Vettel, not in any season nor in the all-time list. It turned out Red Bull made the right decision by not favoring Webber but that was largely due to very fortunate circumstances. We cannot deny that Vettel was the preferred driver right from the very beginning.

Actually Marko was under heavy scrutiny about RB young drivers development program at that time. There was a lot of talk about it.

#7978 V8 Fireworks

V8 Fireworks
  • Member

  • 10,824 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 25 December 2019 - 09:05

A Leclerc/Vettel pairing is a very strong line up, so i dont see a reason to change it..


Ricciardo is better than Vettel, so why wouldn't you have Leclerc/Ricciardo?

#7979 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 35,268 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 25 December 2019 - 09:09

Ricciardo is better than Vettel, so why wouldn't you have Leclerc/Ricciardo?

That's strongly depending on the car you have, one season is not always conclusive after all - and the last couple of years showed that Ricciardo isnt able to keep the same level every year. in general to me Ricciardo and Vettel are the same ballpark, I would however take Ricciardo in this case because I feel the Vettel/Ferrari relationship has run its course, and Ricciardo might also be better at dealing with being the 2nd driver if he has to.

Edited by Marklar, 25 December 2019 - 09:09.


Advertisement

#7980 cheekybru

cheekybru
  • Member

  • 1,660 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 25 December 2019 - 09:59

I though LC was on 9 million over 5 years, not 9 mill a yearm?

#7981 geralt

geralt
  • Member

  • 776 posts
  • Joined: January 17

Posted 25 December 2019 - 10:23

A Leclerc/Vettel pairing is a very strong line up, so i dont see a reason to change it. Verstappen/Leclerc wont fit and you need to pay Hamilton even more then Vettel currently so i don't see that happen either. Vettel just needs to take a pay cut(and a mental coach) and your good to go for a couple of years. Get Sainz after Vettel retires in 3-5 years.

 

The Vettel/Leclerc pairing is quite clearly the fastest duo, but in my opinion it's also one that is very error prone (especially compared to the direct competition). I think that's the only argument where Ferrari may be better off with a solid second driver alongside Leclerc. Someone in the vein of Bottas (basically Hulkenberg)


Edited by geralt, 25 December 2019 - 10:25.


#7982 goldenboy

goldenboy
  • Member

  • 6,475 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 25 December 2019 - 13:58

I though LC was on 9 million over 5 years, not 9 mill a yearm?

Well that would be a pay cut from his current salary to the lowest paid third or fourth quarter of the grid. It's per year of course.

Edited by goldenboy, 25 December 2019 - 13:59.


#7983 thefinalapex

thefinalapex
  • Member

  • 1,099 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 25 December 2019 - 17:30

Ricciardo is better than Vettel, so why wouldn't you have Leclerc/Ricciardo?

 

I still think that when he has the car the way he wants he is that little bit quicker then Ricciardo. But Ricciardo i think is the more versatile performer. 



#7984 vlado

vlado
  • Member

  • 332 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 25 December 2019 - 18:13

Vettel has been a horrible return on investment for Ferrari, hopefully better luck this time..



#7985 ElectricBoogie

ElectricBoogie
  • Member

  • 679 posts
  • Joined: March 19

Posted 25 December 2019 - 20:25

I still think that when he has the car the way he wants he is that little bit quicker then Ricciardo. But Ricciardo i think is the more versatile performer. 

On most occasions, being a little bit quicker doesn't get you extra points. Surely we can agree that if it's even there, it would be less than a tenths over the course of a typical weekend and resutling in a somewhat balanced quali battle even?
Now imagine a driver with RIC's speed as well as RIC's limited amount of mess ups... In a Ferrari that adds up to a whole lot of points. 



#7986 Claudius

Claudius
  • Member

  • 3,600 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 25 December 2019 - 20:26

Also 5 years is quite a lot for the record. I feel this is their own 1B driver like Massa was and Ferrari is looking at something better yet.


He is better than Massa and Bottas ever will be.
He will be Ferraris nr 1 soon enough.
Peanut money for Ferrari.

#7987 ForzaFormula

ForzaFormula
  • Member

  • 663 posts
  • Joined: April 17

Posted 25 December 2019 - 23:49

He is better than Massa and Bottas ever will be.
He will be Ferraris nr 1 soon enough.
Peanut money for Ferrari.


Bottas was better than massa and so far I don’t think charles has shown anything to say he’s better than bottas.

#7988 Astandahl

Astandahl
  • Member

  • 814 posts
  • Joined: June 18

Posted 26 December 2019 - 01:44

Bottas was better than massa and so far I don’t think charles has shown anything to say he’s better than bottas.

Here we go again with Bottas Leclerc comparison.  The difference in race craft alone between the two is as big as the difference in speed between Lewis and Monteiro.

 

Nobody cares about Bottas, not even the drivers. :rotfl:



#7989 HeadFirst

HeadFirst
  • Member

  • 3,700 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 26 December 2019 - 05:27

Leclerc looks way more promising than Massa ever was.

This is a lot more comparable to Hamilton back then at McLaren (even if not quite as much, Lewis was a level more impressive imo, but the salary and contract length is identical), the question is really if Ferrari has the same confidence in its young driver as McLaren had back then. As in, will they hire their own Kovalainen or a 1A/B as you say.

 

I dunno M. I was never a fan of Felipe, but he did have his moments before his injury. 



#7990 CoolBreeze

CoolBreeze
  • Member

  • 1,805 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 26 December 2019 - 06:21

it's too early to judge vs Massa. Massa had some nice top cars back in the day as well. 



#7991 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 35,268 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 26 December 2019 - 13:52

Binotto is really not good in articulating his thoughts, isnt he? 

 

 

"The victory in Singapore has been key for him [Vettel], not only for the victory itself but the trust in the team.

"He knew that he could count on the team for help, if necessary.
"But I think it was right, it was the right choice and time to let him win."

https://www.autospor...ngapore-was-key


(I reckon he means with "let him win" to not swap the order after they strategically sacrified Leclerc, but it sounds so wrong the way he said it OTL)


Edited by Marklar, 26 December 2019 - 13:53.


#7992 Sunnny

Sunnny
  • Member

  • 1,215 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 26 December 2019 - 14:01

Amazing how people are calling Leclerc a B driver. It's his 2nd year in F1 and he beat a 4 XWDC who was already established and used to the car. He performance is far more impressive than DR against RB. Atleast when DR best Vettel there was the excuse that it was a new car for both drivers. Leclerc came cold into Ferrari and beat Vettel in a car that Vettel was familiar with. 

 

And yet people are still doubt Leclerc :stoned: utter madness!  Look how long it took Max to finally get the upper hand over DR? Leclerc did it  in his first year against Vettel. Imagine what Leclerc will be like when he is in his 5 th year in F1. I'd even wager anyone here that Leclerc will get his WDC before Max. Leclerc is the real deal and very driven with a desire to win it all. He is only going to get better and 2020 will prove if Ferrari get their act together. 


Edited by Sunnny, 26 December 2019 - 14:01.


#7993 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 35,268 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 26 December 2019 - 14:10

Amazing how people are calling Leclerc a B driver. It's his 2nd year in F1 and he beat a 4 XWDC who was already established and used to the car. He performance is far more impressive than DR against RB. Atleast when DR best Vettel there was the excuse that it was a new car for both drivers. Leclerc came cold into Ferrari and beat Vettel in a car that Vettel was familiar with. 

 

And yet people are still doubt Leclerc :stoned: utter madness!  Look how long it took Max to finally get the upper hand over DR? Leclerc did it  in his first year against Vettel. Imagine what Leclerc will be like when he is in his 5 th year in F1. I'd even wager anyone here that Leclerc will get his WDC before Max. Leclerc is the real deal and very driven with a desire to win it all. He is only going to get better and 2020 will prove if Ferrari get their act together. 

The car was new this year too though, the new front wing rules changed the behaviour of the cars for the drivers, even if not as much as in 2014.

 

The "he is already this good, how good will he be then in X years" argument is always poor, because no driver develops in a steep curve, just ask Vettel.

As for how long it took Verstapepn to get the upper hand over Ricciardo: a few races. Despite being thrown in midway through the season he had by the end of the season the edge in qualifying (and he was from the get go as quick/quicker in races) and was the clearly quicker driver though 2017 & 2018.

I'm not a Verstappen fan, but he is clearly more proven (mostly presumably because he is also longer in F1 to be fair), the only thing that he has to still prove is if he can sustain this over years with rules changes and all that as well and if he can keep his head clean. Leclerc still lacks in essential things like race pace, which he will either develop over the time or it will turn out to be a limitation in his skillset. Nobody can say for certain.


Edited by Marklar, 26 December 2019 - 14:14.


#7994 pRy

pRy
  • Member

  • 16,623 posts
  • Joined: March 99

Posted 26 December 2019 - 16:34

Binotto is really not good in articulating his thoughts, isnt he? 

 

Yes not exactly a great compliment to the multiple world champion suggesting they needed to give him a win to help his confidence. Even if that is perhaps exactly the case. You don't really say it out loud. It's just another example of the problem Ferrari have given themselves. The same issue McLaren gave themselves in 2007.



#7995 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 15,215 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 26 December 2019 - 19:22

Binotto is really not good in articulating his thoughts, isnt he? 

 

https://www.autospor...ngapore-was-key


(I reckon he means with "let him win" to not swap the order after they strategically sacrified Leclerc, but it sounds so wrong the way he said it OTL)

 

Yeps.

 

I'm not a trained PR spokesman and it would take my a few seconds to think of a proper response saying that they kept the cars as they were because it was best for the WCC and both drivers had been exceptional in following their designated strategies.

 

edit: it would also have been nice opportunity to drive home the point that the team comes first and thus the 1-2 was protected.


Edited by Atreiu, 26 December 2019 - 19:38.


#7996 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 22,175 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 27 December 2019 - 00:00

Binotto is really not good in articulating his thoughts, isnt he?

 

Either that, or he doesn't really care anymore to pamper Seb, at this point in time.

 

Well, probably it's truly lack of language skill / political experience. Essentially he not only embarasses Seb but also admits that they screwed Leclerc that day, I don't think either driver can be happy with those statements.



#7997 vlado

vlado
  • Member

  • 332 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 27 December 2019 - 03:43

Amazing how people are calling Leclerc a B driver. It's his 2nd year in F1 and he beat a 4 XWDC who was already established and used to the car. He performance is far more impressive than DR against RB. Atleast when DR best Vettel there was the excuse that it was a new car for both drivers. Leclerc came cold into Ferrari and beat Vettel in a car that Vettel was familiar with. 

 

And yet people are still doubt Leclerc :stoned: utter madness!  Look how long it took Max to finally get the upper hand over DR? Leclerc did it  in his first year against Vettel. Imagine what Leclerc will be like when he is in his 5 th year in F1. I'd even wager anyone here that Leclerc will get his WDC before Max. Leclerc is the real deal and very driven with a desire to win it all. He is only going to get better and 2020 will prove if Ferrari get their act together. 

 

I think 2020 will be the first time in Leclerc's career where he will be in the same car/team as the previous season..

 

might have a positive effect, who knows  :stoned:



#7998 ForzaFormula

ForzaFormula
  • Member

  • 663 posts
  • Joined: April 17

Posted 27 December 2019 - 05:32

Here we go again with Bottas Leclerc comparison. The difference in race craft alone between the two is as big as the difference in speed between Lewis and Monteiro.

Nobody cares about Bottas, not even the drivers. :rotfl:


Arguably charles had a pretty equal car to bottas this year yet got beat by bottas. His race craft was nothing spectacular and funny no teams care about bottas yet he landed a Mercedes seat. 🥴🎅

#7999 HPT

HPT
  • Member

  • 1,616 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 27 December 2019 - 05:58

Arguably charles had a pretty equal car to bottas this year yet got beat by bottas. His race craft was nothing spectacular and funny no teams care about bottas yet he landed a Mercedes seat. 🥴🎅


Bottas’ manager is...Toto Wolff. And even then he only gets yearly contracts.

Advertisement

#8000 JBJ

JBJ
  • Member

  • 368 posts
  • Joined: January 16

Posted 27 December 2019 - 08:35

Bottas’ manager is...Toto Wolff. And even then he only gets yearly contracts.

Bottas’ manager was...Toto Wolff

This stopped when he started driving for Mercedes