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Ferrari 2019: Vettel vs Leclerc, Binotto vs shareholders, expectation vs reality


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#2851 Atreiu

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 22:00

Not sure how Charles being fast is a problem, it is what they hired him for.

 

His speed in itself is not a problem, the consequences are.

 

Vettel and Leclerc are constantly racing each other and literally interfering with the other's race. That's why people are defending the need for more and/or less team orders, because, as it is, they can even help themselves have a clean race and they can't help themselves see who can do more on track without orders.

 

That does not help Ferrari maximize their potential and the lack of a clear pecking order doesn't help them win battles in the press.



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#2852 RPM40

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 22:22

His speed in itself is not a problem, the consequences are.

 

Vettel and Leclerc are constantly racing each other and literally interfering with the other's race. That's why people are defending the need for more and/or less team orders, because, as it is, they can even help themselves have a clean race and they can't help themselves see who can do more on track without orders.

 

That does not help Ferrari maximize their potential and the lack of a clear pecking order doesn't help them win battles in the press.

 

Its still not a problem. Charles has secured a pole and could have secured a win if their reliability didn't let him down. Vettel hasn't looked close to doing either of these things. 

 

They aren't competing for a championship.



#2853 bernardv

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 22:26

His speed in itself is not a problem, the consequences are.

 

Vettel and Leclerc are constantly racing each other and literally interfering with the other's race. That's why people are defending the need for more and/or less team orders, because, as it is, they can even help themselves have a clean race and they can't help themselves see who can do more on track without orders.

 

That does not help Ferrari maximize their potential and the lack of a clear pecking order doesn't help them win battles in the press.

 

What consequences? Seb finishing 4th instead of MAYBE 3rd? Who cares, let them race.

 

Maybe they should put both drivers on the same strategy (the one that makes sense) for a change and then watch Charles pull away with ease. The only reason why these 2 are getting caught up during the race is because Charles ends up with some dumb plan B strategy most of the time.



#2854 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:36

Yeah- read all about it here. :)

https://www.business...n-Winnow-Shared

 

I'm a genius :drunk:  Thanks



#2855 abc

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:43

Its still not a problem. Charles has secured a pole and could have secured a win if their reliability didn't let him down. Vettel hasn't looked close to doing either of these things. 

 

 

Wow, Vettel had better pace in 4 out of 5 races and you make it sound as Vettel is hopeless to achieve anything. 



#2856 abc

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:46

The only reason why these 2 are getting caught up during the race is because Charles ends up with some dumb plan B strategy most of the time.

What a stupid nonsense 



#2857 as65p

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:48

Yeah- read all about it here. :)

https://www.business...n-Winnow-Shared

 

Oh well, now how do I go about winnowing all that useless info out of my head again? :stoned:



#2858 sopa

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:25

 

 

The word “winnow” (pronounced: “win”–“oh”)

 

Why don't they write it as "winoh" then, instead of "winnow"?

 

Nah, this makes as much sense as Ferrari strategy. Or to put it this way - these complement each other well.



#2859 Nonesuch

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:12

What consequences? Seb finishing 4th instead of MAYBE 3rd? Who cares, let them race.

 

That's not the reason there have been problems. It's when the Ferrari in 3rd tries to take 2nd, and compromises his strategy compared to the Ferrari in 4th, that Ferrari has judged it necessary to interfere.

 

Seems reasonable, although at this stage - with the championship being rather an unreasonable expectation - perhaps Ferrari can loosen up a bit, and just see how it plays out.

 


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#2860 RPM40

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:25

Wow, Vettel had better pace in 4 out of 5 races and you make it sound as Vettel is hopeless to achieve anything.


He hasn’t had a pole or competed for a win, no. I wouldn’t say he’s had the better pace in 4/5 either

#2861 Astandahl

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:33

Wow, Vettel had better pace in 4 out of 5 races and you make it sound as Vettel is hopeless to achieve anything. 

Not true.



#2862 abc

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:52

Not true.

What is not true?

 

China, Baku and Spain are clear cut, Aus less, but Vettel dominated when on same strategy, later they pitted him too early, failed with undercut and he spent many laps behind other car unable to go his pace, later in the stint it was only about tire conservation.



#2863 Astandahl

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:53

What is not true?

 

China, Baku and Spain are clear cut, Aus less, but Vettel dominated when on same strategy, later they pitted him too early, failed with undercut and he spent many laps behind other car unable to go his pace, later in the stint it was only about tire conservation.

Ok



#2864 Marklar

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:14

I actually think Australia is the most clear cut one because until they were not on the same strategy he was running away quite clearly (even if a bit of it was down to Leclerc making a mistake), something that wasnt the case in any other race.

The pace difference was not very huge in China until Ferrari decided to screw Leclerc over. In Spain we only can compare the final stint to where Vettel was a bit quicker, but it's also a stage of the race where drivers often dont push anymore unless they have a chance. In Baku Leclerc was running an entirely different strategy, so the only possible comparison is over cross comparing them with the Red Bull guys (Vettel was more or less as quick as Max, while Leclerc struggled to keep up with Gasly), which might not tell the whole story either given that it could be that the Ferrari might just react to a heavy car on mediums differently.

I would also say that Vettel was in the race quicker 4 out of 5 times, however it wasnt very clear cut IMO. Nowhere near as much as Bahrain anyways.



#2865 Astandahl

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:20

I actually think Australia is the most clear cut one because until they were not on the same strategy he was running away quite clearly (even if a bit of it was down to Leclerc making a mistake), something that wasnt the case in any other race.

The pace difference was not very huge in China until Ferrari decided to screw Leclerc over. In Spain we only can compare the final stint to where Vettel was a bit quicker, but it's also a stage of the race where drivers often dont push anymore unless they have a chance. In Baku Leclerc was running an entirely different strategy, so the only possible comparison is over cross comparing them with the Red Bull guys (Vettel was more or less as quick as Max, while Leclerc struggled to keep up with Gasly), which might not tell the whole story either given that it could be that the Ferrari might just react to a heavy car on mediums differently.

I would also say that Vettel was in the race quicker 4 out of 5 times, however it wasnt very clear cut IMO. Nowhere near as much as Bahrain anyways.

In Baku Leclerc was way faster. He didn't push after the first pit because the gap was just too big.  He ruined his race in quali.

 

The average pace between the two is very very similar.



#2866 baddog

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:28

In Baku Leclerc was way faster. He didn't push after the first pit because the gap was just too big.  He ruined his race in quali.

 

The average pace between the two is very very similar.

 

Baku cant agree, you cant just assume he WOULD be faster if he wanted to be, he wasnt and thats the evidence we have.

 

As for average, It is close but Vettel has the edge in race pace, and is more consistent in qualy. This gives him an edge overall, but Charles has started extremely well.



#2867 abc

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:03

I actually think Australia is the most clear cut one because until they were not on the same strategy he was running away quite clearly (even if a bit of it was down to Leclerc making a mistake), something that wasnt the case in any other race.

The pace difference was not very huge in China until Ferrari decided to screw Leclerc over. In Spain we only can compare the final stint to where Vettel was a bit quicker, but it's also a stage of the race where drivers often dont push anymore unless they have a chance. In Baku Leclerc was running an entirely different strategy, so the only possible comparison is over cross comparing them with the Red Bull guys (Vettel was more or less as quick as Max, while Leclerc struggled to keep up with Gasly), which might not tell the whole story either given that it could be that the Ferrari might just react to a heavy car on mediums differently.

I would also say that Vettel was in the race quicker 4 out of 5 times, however it wasnt very clear cut IMO. Nowhere near as much as Bahrain anyways.

Actually agree about Spain, Australia, Bahrain

 

In China Leclerc was cork in the bottle, in second stint they had same tires, lenght 15 laps (laps 16-18 Leclerc was used to slow Mercedes, which didnt work) in free air and Vettel had same overall time with a car which was 0,4sec. heavier/slower.

 

In Baku Vettels medium tires were 11 laps younger but he was miles faster to explain that difference.