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Williams: Drivers, management and other folks at Grove 2019


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#1 PayasYouRace

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 06:29

So nobody has actually started this thread for Williams so I’ll start it now we’ve had qualifying at Melbourne.

On the driver front, Russell seems to be doing a good job, and has had the edge of Kubica so far. Robert has made a few minor mistakes too.

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#2 Junky

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 06:32

Put it Kubica vs Russell, please.



#3 PayasYouRace

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 06:32

They’re not the only two people who work at Williams.

#4 Disgrace

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 07:28

I thought Russell would have the advantage, but 1.7 ahead is seriously worrying for Kubica. And he's been in the wall twice. Stroll was castigated for less.



#5 shurajan

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:03

I thought Russell would have the advantage, but 1.7 ahead is seriously worrying for Kubica. And he's been in the wall twice. Stroll was castigated for less.


He started proving what was obvious in 2018.

#6 cromofo

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:06

KUB says the car surprised him on the last lap, much faster, 0.7s faster 1st sector than his last time and ultimately ended up in the barrier because he didn't expect the speed in the turn.

Seems they've been fiddling with tyre pressure before the last run. Some glimpses of not being totally crap, at least.

Edited by cromofo, 16 March 2019 - 08:09.


#7 Topsu

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:08

A crippling team.



#8 Anja

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:08

I'm not expecting Kubica to match or beat Russell, but I don't think the 1.7s gap is representative - after all Robert didn't complete his final lap because of the error. 


Edited by Anja, 16 March 2019 - 08:08.


#9 messy

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:10

To be honest, Kubica has been far closer to Russell this weekend than I expected. And he was on for a much stronger time when he stuffed it. I think RK has done quite well on his comeback, just such an utter shame the car is so goddamn slow.

#10 HermannH

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:11

Russell is ending the Kubica hype.



#11 cromofo

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:11

I'm not expecting Kubica to match or beat Russell, but I don't think the 1.7s gap is representative - after all Robert didn't complete his final lap because of the error.


I'd assume 0.2s slower than Russell from what I've seen in FPs, but we didn't get the chance to see his last run because of the error. We'll see how they compare soon enough, when the lights go out.

Edited by cromofo, 16 March 2019 - 08:12.


#12 Pat Clarke

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:15

I posted this in the Aussie GP thread...

 

Kubica should retire right now so we can remember what a great driver he was before the rallying accident, not the duffer he was when he tried to come back to F1. He might have wondered if he still 'had it', but now we can all see he doesn't. Sad

 

As the Williams test driver, his experience might help pull the team out of the situation they are mired in and leave the driving to the kids.  Oh, and they should have Claire Williams cleaning the mechanics spanners. .

 

Pat



#13 sopa

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:15

Russell is ending the Kubica hype.

 

Anyone believing Kubica performing at his best after 9 years of absence was overly optimistic anyway. The only question is how far off he is. First signs aren't any good at all, because let's remind Russell is a complete rookie, even if a very talented one.



#14 cromofo

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:17

I posted this in the Aussie GP thread...

Kubica should retire right now so we can remember what a great driver he was before the rallying accident, not the duffer he was when he tried to come back to F1. He might have wondered if he still 'had it', but now we can all see he doesn't. Sad


As the Williams test driver, his experience might help pull the team out of the situation they are mired in and leave the driving to the kids. Oh, and they should have Claire Williams cleaning the mechanics spanners. .


Pat


At least wait for the 1st race of the season, his first since 8 years, before spouting nonsense.

#15 cromofo

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:18

I'll give KUB the same treatment as I did with Sirotkin, until Spain.

Drawing conclusions from his first quali in 8 years, especially after not being able to post his best time is absurd.

#16 TomNokoe

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:19

KUB says the car surprised him on the last lap, much faster, 0.7s faster 1st sector than his last time and ultimately ended up in the barrier because he didn't expect the speed in the turn.

Seems they've been fiddling with tyre pressure before the last run. Some glimpses of not being totally crap, at least.


His S1 was still 0.3s slower than Russell. This sounds like an excuse.

It is a very long season, though.

#17 A3

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:23

At least wait for the 1st race of the season, his first since 8 years, before spouting nonsense.

 

He was slow in testing, he was slow in Q and put it in the wall. He is a guy with a handicap, I seriously doubt he will ever get competitive in F1 again.



#18 MadYarpen

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:23

I expected RK to be in front of GR. So yeah, that was depressing seeing him consistently + 1 sec. Wonder what would the last lap be, but even if it was great his mistake ended it... Don't write him off yet though.



#19 cromofo

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:25

He was slow in testing, he was slow in Q and put it in the wall. He is a guy with a handicap, I seriously doubt he will ever get competitive in F1 again.


The season is long.

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#20 A3

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:43

The season is long.

 

Agreed. If they replace Kubica with Ocon now they have more of a chance to score a point somewhere. 



#21 cromofo

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:46

Agreed. If they replace Kubica with Ocon now they have more of a chance to score a point somewhere.


They better get Hamilton while they're at it as well.

#22 A3

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:49

They better get Hamilton while they're at it as well.

 

 

So you think Ocon was out of reach for Williams?  :confused:



#23 cromofo

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:52

So you think Ocon was out of reach for Williams? :confused:


I mean it's silly to talk about replacing Kubica at this time.

#24 BRK

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 09:13

I think they've hit bottom, the only way forward is up now..



#25 A3

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 09:14

I mean it's silly to talk about replacing Kubica at this time.

 

It's equally silly to say it's a long season and hoping he'll eventually come good. 



#26 BRK

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 09:17

And yeah, it's sad to see Kubica so far off the pace, but their bigger problem is fixing the car. It's so awful & the morale is so low all the driver vs driver talk is meaningless. 


Edited by BRK, 16 March 2019 - 09:17.


#27 statman

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 09:18

KUB says the car surprised him on the last lap, much faster, 0.7s faster 1st sector than his last time and ultimately ended up in the barrier because he didn't expect the speed in the turn.
 

lol, what a bunch of BS from that guy.

 

Terrible Ocon is on the sidelines, but a big bag of money rules...


Edited by statman, 16 March 2019 - 09:19.


#28 A3

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 09:26

And yeah, it's sad to see Kubica so far off the pace, 

 

Why is that sad?



#29 Baddoer

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 09:36

One thing that scares s**t out of me is that Russel sounds almost like one certain seven time champion.



#30 noriaki

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 09:36

It's the first qualifying. Give RK a few races at least. 

 

Why is that sad?

 

Because some people like Robert?



#31 shurajan

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:00

I'm not expecting Kubica to match or beat Russell, but I don't think the 1.7s gap is representative - after all Robert didn't complete his final lap because of the error.


Well... 2 errors today. Don’t you think that errors are stemmed from all known RK limitations?

#32 P123

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:04

Great start by Russell. Hopefully this is as bad as Williams gets.

#33 Nemo1965

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:17

I feel sad for Kubica and his fans, especially the Polish ones who really believe Kubica will be back at a top-team in a couple of years. It would be a dream scenario, a giant lift of air for anyone like Robert who has had a handicap. You never want to throw a spanner in the wheels of hope, but here's the rub: F1 is a sport for top-athletes now. Any driver on the grid now - even Stroll - could outrun, outswim, outfight whatever every driver that drove in Formula 1 twenty years ago - just physically, outside of the car. And they need to be, because the cars are much more driven to the maximum of mechanical and aerodynamical grip than before - every year.

 

The father of one of my studens has driven old F1 cars in historic races from several decades and he once told me: 'The older a F1-car is, the easier it is to drive it slow, but the harder it is to drive fast. (And dangerous, N1965). The more modern a F1-car is, the harder it is too drive slow (because the tyres, brakes etc won't warm up) and the easier it is to drive fast.That is... if you have the muscles for it.'

 

He also added that he himself thought that IF he drove a modern F1-car in anger (or tried to), they would have to lift him out of the cockpit after ten laps. And this is a ultra-fit guy of about 45 who runs marathons and iron mans and who can do 50 push-ups on one arm, both sides. 

 

So I hope Kubica has a nice season. And I hope that his most devoted fans just have a realistic view on his come-back.


Edited by Nemo1965, 16 March 2019 - 10:18.


#34 sopa

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:29

Agreed. If they replace Kubica with Ocon now they have more of a chance to score a point somewhere. 

 

Point? Maybe if we had a race like Monaco 2014. Williams is about as bad as Manor or Caterham were.



#35 sopa

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:30

I feel sad for Kubica and his fans, especially the Polish ones who really believe Kubica will be back at a top-team in a couple of years. It would be a dream scenario, a giant lift of air for anyone like Robert who has had a handicap. You never want to throw a spanner in the wheels of hope, but here's the rub: F1 is a sport for top-athletes now. Any driver on the grid now - even Stroll - could outrun, outswim, outfight whatever every driver that drove in Formula 1 twenty years ago - just physically, outside of the car. And they need to be, because the cars are much more driven to the maximum of mechanical and aerodynamical grip than before - every year.

 

Well, yeah. It's the usual story. Fans dream of anything. But in reality this is the only season Kubica is most likely going to get in F1, and his sponsor Orlen gets bored of throwing 20M per year into a hopeless team as well. And no better team would hire Kubica. It's a dead-end road.



#36 cromofo

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 11:29

It's equally silly to say it's a long season and hoping he'll eventually come good.

I'm willing to give him a chance, like I'd do to anyone else, instead of concluding his entire season off a single qualifying session.

If that's silly then I don't know what to say.

#37 A3

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 11:31

He's handicapped. That makes it kind of silly.



#38 cromofo

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 11:34

He's handicapped. That makes it kind of silly.


So he's handicapped and that's the end of story?

#39 AlexPrime

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 11:35

Not a fan of RK, but prefer him to Merc mercenary Okon, who might sacrifice your dreamed point to punt someone if Toto wants it  :drunk:



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#40 Anja

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 11:39

He's handicapped. That makes it kind of silly.

 

Arguably so was Johnny Herbert and it didn't stop him from winning races. 



#41 cromofo

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 11:41

I mean you've already established what you think of RK. That's ok. We'll come back to it in Spain.

I can only hope you end up eating your own words.

#42 milestone 11

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 11:44

He was slow in testing, he was slow in Q and put it in the wall.

He only escaped the 107% rule by .053



#43 kapow

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 11:52

He only escaped the 107% rule by .053


He'd have been allowed in regardless

#44 cromofo

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 11:55

RK on his mistake and the upcoming race;


"Qualifying was difficult with the general feeling in the car, but suddenly those feelings improved massively for the last run. But then I complicated my life with a silly mistake.

"It was not even a mistake from overdriving or something like that.

"It was probably evaluation of space, which is a bit embarrassing."

"There are a lot of things to discover, but seeing the long runs yesterday it will be very tough.

"When people were doing race sims and longer runs, I was overtaken more than in all four years I was racing - and that was in 45 minutes of driving.

"So it will be a long race. But it is extremely important to get this done, to get some information and I think in the end, although it doesn't look positive, it is a very positive day for me."

#45 A3

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 11:55

Arguably so was Johnny Herbert and it didn't stop him from winning races. 

 

I get your point, but from the moment Kubica got back in an F1 car it was clear he couldn't get a normal grip on the steering wheel. That may not be a problem in free practices or testing, but I just don't believe it is not an issue when you drive an F1 car in anger. 



#46 A3

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 11:56

I mean you've already established what you think of RK. That's ok. We'll come back to it in Spain.

I can only hope you end up eating your own words.

 

No problem, if he comes good I'll gladly admit I was wrong. 



#47 cromofo

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 11:57

I get your point, but from the moment Kubica got back in an F1 car it was clear he couldn't get a normal grip on the steering wheel. That may not be a problem in free practices or testing, but I just don't believe it is not an issue when you drive an F1 car in anger.


I think the easiest way to tell how he's affected by his limitations is to see him race in continuity. Wait and see.

#48 statman

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 12:08

He's handicapped. That makes it kind of silly.

 

and if he 'didn't expected the speed' around Melbourne, it 's gonna be interesting to see him around Monaco..



#49 Pat Clarke

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 12:15

Cromofo, I am not a KUB hater, far from it. I admired him greatly in his first career.

I admired that, unlike most other drivers, he was prepared to let it all hang out in another motorsport.

I admired his fightback from what should have been career ending injuries.

I even admired that he got back to a testing role with a F1 team.

 

However.I would far rather remember him as the true champion he was than as a makeweight struggling around at the back of the field.

I know you are an unabashed KUB fan, but face it, his day as a front line F1 driver has passed. That is life.  He will not see the year out with Williams when there is a much better Mercedes aligned driver waiting in the wings.

 

Pat



#50 KavB

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 12:17

I will give him the benefit of the doubt for a few more races.

Bear in mind that he hasn't had that much testing to get up to speed. Nor has Russell but he is coming from F2 whereas Kubica is coming from an 8 year absence. If he turns out to be no good then I'm sure he will be dropped and at least he (and the rest of us) will receive some closure on his career.