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Williams: Drivers, management and other folks at Grove 2019


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#451 tghik

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 16:00

I think ppl make too much fuss about their financial troubles, it's a long term problem not like they will fold tomorrow

Patrick head will work for free, will clean up the house of overpaid and underperforming employees. Claire is the mother figure, now Head will be their father.



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#452 barnardferrari

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 16:15

I think ppl make too much fuss about their financial troubles, it's a long term problem not like they will fold tomorrow

Patrick head will work for free, will clean up the house of overpaid and underperforming employees. Claire is the mother figure, now Head will be their father.

Oh, mother figure...I thought people were saying something else about her.



#453 TomNokoe

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 17:13

Definitely respectable but wondering why Kubica is still a way off Russell. Maybe he really is giving the kerbs a wide berth.

#454 GodHimself

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 17:19

Kubica has just said in a TV interview that they discovered today that the two cars have very different characteristics even when on the same setup and it's clearly visible in the data. He mentioned that after Melbourne he thought the similar thing they observed in Australia was down to him and George going down two different setup paths. Here they eliminated this variable and yet the end result is the same. Apparently, it's very visible in the data, but the team doesn't quite understand the cause yet.

 

Driver excuse? That would be very unlike Robert. I'm willing to give him benefit of a doubt and hope for the sake of both his and George's careers that Williams get their **** together to at least allow both their drivers to battle it out on even terms among themselves.


Edited by GodHimself, 29 March 2019 - 17:22.


#455 Abbys

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 17:21

Kubica said that their cars react differently to the same settings. It's annoying that Rus drives a new car, while Kub drives the broken one from winter testing. They didn't even give him a new floor for this weekend, all used parts. Disgusting from Williams.



#456 TomNokoe

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 17:30

Kubica said that their cars react differently to the same settings. It's annoying that Rus drives a new car, while Kub drives the broken one from winter testing. They didn't even give him a new floor for this weekend, all used parts. Disgusting from Williams.


Stick together until Spain and Williams can have a soft reset and really kickstart their season. They are going to finish last and second last no matter what. Don't put it in the barriers and continue to gather data :up:

#457 Paco

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 17:32

Kubica has just said in a TV interview that they discovered today that the two cars have very different characteristics even when on the same setup and it's clearly visible in the data. He mentioned that after Melbourne he thought the similar thing they observed in Australia was down to him and George going down two different setup paths. Here they eliminated this variable and yet the end result is the same. Apparently, it's very visible in the data, but the team doesn't quite understand the cause yet.

 

Driver excuse? That would be very unlike Robert. I'm willing to give him benefit of a doubt and hope for the sake of both his and George's careers that Williams get their **** together to at least allow both their drivers to battle it out on even terms among themselves.

 

Of course they will if the car is not 100% right as it's been said by the the drivers and team.  He's driven a hobbled car but rather then suggest it.. just say .. the floor is broken still and will be a challenge to stay up with Russell until I get a new one of the same design specification.

 

Otherwise, perhaps you have issues that are not chassis specific and just down to your feel vs his and as a result Russell putting in better laps.  Hard to get your feel back being away so long... 

 

Be specific or just do not say anything at all if you banned for telling it for what it is that is the problem as not to reveal any car build issue.  :rolleyes:



#458 NotAPineapple

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 18:42

How difficult is to build a spare floor for team like Williams? What is involved? How much would it cost? Seriously, can they just not build this damn floor? This is honest question.

Maybe Orlen should pay for this stupid floor if Williams can't afford it, as Kubica claims he cannot go over the kerbs. Madness.

Seriously how much could freakin floor cost? What are they gonna do if engine goes? They spent all the money on mirrors?

 

Floor is a massive cost and massive job. If the tooling is all ready it would probs be around 3-4 weeks and 50k€.
 



#459 tghik

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 18:47

Otherwise, perhaps you have issues that are not chassis specific and just down to your feel vs his and as a result Russell putting in better laps.  Hard to get your feel back being away so long... 

 

Be specific or just do not say anything at all if you banned for telling it for what it is that is the problem as not to reveal any car build issue.  :rolleyes:

He mentioned the difference shows in the data captured by the sensors



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#460 cromofo

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 19:02

https://www.autospor...-car-to-russell

 

All RK's quotes about the troubles of the car.



#461 GoldenEra

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 19:02

Of course they will if the car is not 100% right as it's been said by the the drivers and team. He's driven a hobbled car but rather then suggest it.. just say .. the floor is broken still and will be a challenge to stay up with Russell until I get a new one of the same design specification.

Otherwise, perhaps you have issues that are not chassis specific and just down to your feel vs his and as a result Russell putting in better laps. Hard to get your feel back being away so long...

Be specific or just do not say anything at all if you banned for telling it for what it is that is the problem as not to reveal any car build issue. :rolleyes:


Russell had some sympathy for his struggling team-mate.

"I know in Australia we certainly managed to optimise better than what he did," said the Formula 2 champion.

"And when was saw the videos, my car looked nicer to drive than his car. He's quite a bit off the pace at the moment and I know he's not off pace by that far."

Kubica:

"The floor is in a good state here."

https://www.autospor...-car-to-russell

#462 Izzyeviel

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 19:13

If the car is damaged, why are the FIA allowing it to be driven??



#463 cromofo

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 19:23

Despite the Kubica troubles, Russell seems to be doing fine with his car, less of a gap to midfield than I expected in FP2. Hopefully they can solve whatever is wrong with Kubica's car and finally get on with closing the gap. Kubica himself says there is potential in the car that just needs to be unlocked.



#464 shurajan

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 19:25

Despite the Kubica troubles, Russell seems to be doing fine with his car, less of a gap to midfield than I expected in FP2. Hopefully they can solve whatever is wrong with Kubica's car and finally get on with closing the gap. Kubica himself says there is potential in the car that just needs to be unlocked.


May be this is just reality of f1 ant its time for RK to become more mature person to recognise that he can not compete on this level and loose every session to rookie?

Edited by shurajan, 29 March 2019 - 19:26.


#465 Clatter

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 19:26

If the car is damaged, why are the FIA allowing it to be driven??

 


Just because there is damage, it doesn't mean the car is dangerous, or infringing the rules.

#466 cromofo

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 19:30

May be this is just reality of f1 ant its time for RK to become more mature person to recognise that he can not compete on this level and loose every session to rookie?

Mature people look at context and circumstances.



#467 pdac

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 19:41

Kubica said that their cars react differently to the same settings. It's annoying that Rus drives a new car, while Kub drives the broken one from winter testing. They didn't even give him a new floor for this weekend, all used parts. Disgusting from Williams.

 

Would you be saying the same if it were George who had damaged his car and Robert's was fine?

 

I ask this because I wonder if you are just upset that Robert is suffering. Remember, though, whilst in an ideal world we would expect that he could damage the car and have it sorted for the next race, we know (and so does he) that Williams are far from being in an ideal world right now.



#468 pdac

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 19:44

If the car is damaged, why are the FIA allowing it to be driven??

 

There's a difference between being damaged and being unsafe. The FIA will intervene if the latter.



#469 MaGiK

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 21:24

Im nit even sure that "damaged" is right wrong.
Its just that this chassis behaves different (worse).
I remember something similar happening to Vettel at Red Bull.

#470 goldenboy

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 21:35

May be this is just reality of f1 ant its time for RK to become more mature person to recognise that he can not compete on this level and loose every session to rookie?

Did you not read about the issues that his team mate actually confirmed?

#471 goldenboy

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 21:38

Im nit even sure that "damaged" is right wrong.
Its just that this chassis behaves different (worse).
I remember something similar happening to Vettel at Red Bull.

Vettels cracked chassis was panned as a bit of a cop out by many. But yeah, damaged may not be the right word. It's just not doing what it's supposed to so maybe faulty is a better choice. Not dangerous, just sucks.

#472 Paco

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 22:51

Rude awaking for Kubica in trying to understand how to get these generations cars to go fast.

 

As for a chassis issue LOL.. good luck on that.. can't even get replacements let alone a new ride.  Can't imagine what it means if one of them crash relatively hard into a barrier what that could mean in FP or qualifying for a race..

 

That said, even if it was chassis - good luck in them getting to even understand why after all last season being lost on stability issues let alone this year..

 

Patrick's going to have quiet a few sleepness nights trying to figure out how to right the ship..



#473 shurajan

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 23:24

Did you not read about the issues that his team mate actually confirmed?


So this is nice from George perspective. But all this story looks like attempt to sugarcoat RK’s lack of pace. We can start collecting his excuses for poor performance for this year we will have many...

#474 ClubmanGT

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 23:33

Would you be saying the same if it were George who had damaged his car and Robert's was fine?

 

I ask this because I wonder if you are just upset that Robert is suffering. Remember, though, whilst in an ideal world we would expect that he could damage the car and have it sorted for the next race, we know (and so does he) that Williams are far from being in an ideal world right now.

 

I'm pissed off the team isn't giving either one of them a good run at it. Russel isn't getting a fair crack at a rookie year (although to be fair most drivers used to have to put up with pigs in the 1990s so there's that). Kubica is definitely not getting a chance to see if he is up to it in a car that could otherwise be better with someone else in it. I can't recall a team where the discussion was so morbid at race one since....it's hard to say. Even when HRT showed up, it was kind of 'whew, it's a miracle, they're actually going to make it'. With Williams it's just one big ongoing 'Yikes', and the spin from the team during testing hasn't helped. 

 

I mean, it's not Mastercard bad, but even when the Stewarts caught fire on debut, they were still reasonably far up the grid before they started smoking. 



#475 SonGoku

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 00:09

RUS and KUB are told not to damage the car during the weekend because they don't have parts to replace it. Another sad moment that goes back to the HRT, Manor and Caterham days.



#476 pdac

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 00:44

I'm pissed off the team isn't giving either one of them a good run at it. Russel isn't getting a fair crack at a rookie year (although to be fair most drivers used to have to put up with pigs in the 1990s so there's that). Kubica is definitely not getting a chance to see if he is up to it in a car that could otherwise be better with someone else in it. I can't recall a team where the discussion was so morbid at race one since....it's hard to say. Even when HRT showed up, it was kind of 'whew, it's a miracle, they're actually going to make it'. With Williams it's just one big ongoing 'Yikes', and the spin from the team during testing hasn't helped. 

 

I mean, it's not Mastercard bad, but even when the Stewarts caught fire on debut, they were still reasonably far up the grid before they started smoking. 

 

But it is what it is. I don't think there will be a single person at Williams who wanted or is happy with the current situation. But it's not going to be fixed overnight and everyone in the team must know that. So, yes, it's frustrating, but as drivers they both just need to take what they have and make the best of it.



#477 BuddyHolly

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 00:57

Quite frankly I think it would have been better if Williams had just folded than going through this slow descent into hell.  (although that said, it's never good for the people who'll lose their jobs)



#478 goldenboy

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 04:00

So this is nice from George perspective. But all this story looks like attempt to sugarcoat RK’s lack of pace. We can start collecting his excuses for poor performance for this year we will have many...

I'm not really a Kubica fan, but it seems more likely to me that it's the real story. It's more unrealistic that his team mate is lying about it.

#479 Wingcommander

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 04:04

RUS and KUB are told not to damage the car during the weekend because they don't have parts to replace it. Another sad moment that goes back to the HRT, Manor and Caterham days.

 

I can't get my head around about what is going on at Williams. How can they not have enough spares to run the cars properly? It can't be any other reason than money, can it? And I've thought that Williams are quite okay financially. One more time: what is going on at Williams? This is really sad to watch.



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#480 RacingGreen

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 05:29

Floor is a massive cost and massive job. If the tooling is all ready it would probs be around 3-4 weeks and 50k€.
 

 

Yes but it is unlikely that the both cars would go for 21 races without needing a replacement at some stage so they should have a spare available and start the season with three. Robert however said it isn't the floor that is the issue or the reason that he is so slow and I quote "the floor is in a good state here."


Edited by RacingGreen, 30 March 2019 - 05:32.


#481 messy

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 07:50

All the negativity and mess around Kubica's pace and spare parts seems to be overshadowing the reasonably decent pace that Williams managed in FP2 doesn't it? Russell was only a second slower than Ricciardo's Renault.

I know a second is still a lot and I know Danny's down in the dumps, but hitting the 1:31s and coming within a few tenths of an Alfa and a Racing Point is a lot better than Melbourne isn't it?

#482 Hans V

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 07:59

Kubica and hos engineers just discovered his car has a completely different set-up from Russels??? Considering Williams employs several hundred presumably very competent people, the quality control - and the overall control seems to be in utter shambles. If they want any chance of survival they need to change the management of the F1 operation - and they need to do it now. The first call for the new team principal should be to Toto Wolf to check out if the B-team offer still stands. As a longtime Williams fan I wouldn’t particularly like this, but this is the best short-term solution. Beggars can’t be choosers.

#483 Domi

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 11:18

Kubica and hos engineers just discovered his car has a completely different set-up from Russels??? Considering Williams employs several hundred presumably very competent people, the quality control - and the overall control seems to be in utter shambles. If they want any chance of survival they need to change the management of the F1 operation - and they need to do it now. The first call for the new team principal should be to Toto Wolf to check out if the B-team offer still stands. As a longtime Williams fan I wouldn’t particularly like this, but this is the best short-term solution. Beggars can’t be choosers.

 

Not diffrent setup. They run exactly the same setup yesterday on both cars and data shows aero levels are not the same on both cars. 

What a ...  :lol:


Edited by Domi, 30 March 2019 - 11:19.


#484 cromofo

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 15:21

Looks like the issues with RK's car have been solved judging from the Q1 times. Both are on the same pace. 



#485 Domi

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 15:24

Looks like the issues with RK's car have been solved judging from the Q1 times. Both are on the same pace. 

 

although something flew off Kubica's car on last run



#486 DrLexus

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 15:30

Super close times, nothing in it really.

 

Shame RK's car is falling to bits, but anyway.



#487 Muppetmad

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 15:35

I'd like to hear from the drivers before making any judgements - it sounds like both had some car issues during the session.



#488 cromofo

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 15:36

although something flew off Kubica's car on last run

Yeah I was watching his onboard and he was improving on his time by 0.3s but last sector he lost it all. Wouldn't surprise me if a part of a wing fell of or something.



#489 GiorgioF1

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 16:26

Yeah I was watching his onboard and he was improving on his time by 0.3s but last sector he lost it all. Wouldn't surprise me if a part of a wing fell of or something.

 

Apparently he lost a piece of his front wing while riding the kerbs in the 2nd sector.



#490 GiorgioF1

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 16:28

Looks like the issues with RK's car have been solved judging from the Q1 times. Both are on the same pace. 

 

Kubica in the post-qualy interview said that the change of the floor didnt make any difference, the car has the same shifft characteristics as before and he had to drive around the issues in q1.

 

edit: he was -0.3 on his 2nd lap in the 2nd sector when the car got unstable in one corner and it was all over.


Edited by GiorgioF1, 30 March 2019 - 16:39.


#491 Muppetmad

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 16:43

Clearly, the drivers won't be mixing it with the rest of the pack in normal circumstances - but hopefully we get an interesting race between the two of them and they can capitalise on anything that happens ahead!



#492 cromofo

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 16:53

Kubica in the post-qualy interview said that the change of the floor didnt make any difference, the car has the same shifft characteristics as before and he had to drive around the issues in q1.

 

edit: he was -0.3 on his 2nd lap in the 2nd sector when the car got unstable in one corner and it was all over.

Any links to his comments?

 

It would be very interesting if he managed to squeeze up so close to Russell with a worse off car, if that is the case.

 

 

EDIT: nvm, just read some. Says that the cars are still not equal and that he lost a piece of FW two turns before the finish line. He seems happy with his performance despite the setbacks.


Edited by cromofo, 30 March 2019 - 17:24.


#493 GiorgioF1

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 18:17

https://streamable.com/ztvh2

 

-0.36 in the 3rd sector when suddenly that pos got understeery and unstable and later the nosecone camera has flown off the car which futher up screwed the front suspension airflow.



#494 cromofo

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 18:25

https://streamable.com/ztvh2

 

-0.36 in the 3rd sector when suddenly that pos got understeery and unstable and later the nosecone camera has flown off the car which futher up screwed the front suspension airflow.

Meh, Williams being Williams. I'm happy with RK's performance. He did a very good job despite the issues with his car.

 

Hopefully soon both drivers can have cars that don't fall apart on kerbs so we can finally see what they're about.



#495 GodHimself

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 18:43

Personally, I'm happy to see both Williams drivers so closely matched. In my opinion, they both need this rivalry to be as close as possible. Robert to prove by matching a highly rated F2 champion, that he is able, despite all the odds, to become a force to be reckoned with again. And George to show that he can translate his junior formulae form into F1 by matching or beating in a close fight a guy who was once considered an F1 champion in the making. If he wins consistently by a second or more, nobody will take his results seriously in my opinion. People will simply think it's down to Kubica being a shadow of his former self. 

 

Sadly, as far as Williams goes, the state they are in is an utter embarrassment. It appears that currently, they are not even close to chasing performance. First, they need to produce two reliable and consistent cars, which can be pushed without worrying that they may disintegrate. :down: They better get their act together and quick or else I can't see them on the grid for much longer. What sponsor would like to be associated with a team that far off the pace and looking so amateur?



#496 Abbys

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 18:59

Would you be saying the same if it were George who had damaged his car and Robert's was fine?

 

I ask this because I wonder if you are just upset that Robert is suffering. Remember, though, whilst in an ideal world we would expect that he could damage the car and have it sorted for the next race, we know (and so does he) that Williams are far from being in an ideal world right now.

 

Yeah, I didn't mean to sound like a Robert's fanboy. However, you see how 1s difference in practice sessions affects his PR and he's unable to do anything about it, as it's not related to his skill. It would be pretty bad for George too, who I like a lot. They're both fighting to make their names important in F1 and both deserve equal machinery. I really hope Williams can deliver that by Europe.

 

Thankfully - even though there weren't many changes to the car - they both did run at the same pace today. They both could improve on their last laps, but due to different circumstances they didn't. They're still way behind in quali pace, but at least we now know that Kubica can run at the same pace as F2 champ who didn't have a break from driving. That's hell of a sign for Kubica, I thought it would take longer than that.

 

Race pace was much better than expected. Well, as long as other's pace from yesterday remains the same they actually have a chance to hold to the back of the pack thanks to huge impact of the DRS on this track (three zones this year). That would be perfect for them as they could at least test the car's behaviour, cooling and aero in following another car.



#497 tghik

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 19:10

Kubica no floor change, contrary to some reports.

The drivers should swap the cars, maybe that would help identify the "aero" problem


Edited by tghik, 30 March 2019 - 19:16.


#498 GiorgioF1

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 19:21

A longer onboard with the last corner - everything was lost there. This car is a joke - https://streamable.com/qpctf



#499 MadYarpen

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 19:24

At least you cannot say RK has any troubles with his hand;) A lot of hard work behind the wheel...



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#500 ClubmanGT

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 20:06

A longer onboard with the last corner - everything was lost there. This car is a joke - https://streamable.com/qpctf

 

What was it that flew off - front wing element?