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Williams: Drivers, management and other folks at Grove 2019


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#6501 Beri

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 06:25

About 10mln from Orlen
Another 15mln from Rexona
So what youre saying is that latifi will buy the worst seat for 25mln euros and that fills the gap xD

That wishful thinking about williams here...
Best od luck guys


No, what I am saying is that ROKiT is investing more since there will be about 2 branches of its company involved in sponsoring Williams. Plus Latifi is getting a full time seat, so there will be more money involved. And when I add things up, there is a realistic chance that the money lost with Orlen and Rexona has already been covered with the earlier two mentioned sources. Reading what someone actually has said is quite difficult if you just focus on one aspect of the entire story, I know.

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#6502 rkrp

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 06:48

No, what I am saying is that ROKiT is investing more since there will be about 2 branches of its company involved in sponsoring Williams. Plus Latifi is getting a full time seat, so there will be more money involved. And when I add things up, there is a realistic chance that the money lost with Orlen and Rexona has already been covered with the earlier two mentioned sources. Reading what someone actually has said is quite difficult if you just focus on one aspect of the entire story, I know.

I thought that ROKiT and it's increasing investments was supposed to fill the gap after another sponsor Williams lost. I don't know, let's say.. martini?
Also there is a gap of lost revenue from F1. 

So I can easily repeat: what you're saying is that Latifi will pay 25mln for 2nd seat in the worst team. 
My point beeing: no, he won't. Latifis aren't stupid. Not after Stroll, SMP, Orlen. So the other option is that Williams will be short on money. Again. 

I think the big problem with the team is that they have lots of ppl  around who pat their back saying it's all good, you're great, it's just temporary. 
Deep denial. Sorry to see them decline so badly. 



#6503 Beri

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 08:22

ROKiT already took over the Martini spot. Only for 2020 they have increased their funding by slapping their bevreages stickers on the car as well. So that pays for (at least some of) the losses. With Latifi shifting to a racing seat, I can only imagine the payment done already in 2019 having increased for 2020. And knowing Williams doing their business with paydrivers, the loss of Orlen will be covered by this. And likely it will be more than the 10 million that Orlen paid for Kubica.
So as said; I think the loss of Unilever and Orlen most likely will be covered. Sponsor wise seen. The loss of revenues is not discussed by me.

#6504 Gemini

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 09:24

I recently read that Wlliams sold majority stake in its WAE unit. Williams Advanced Engineering. This is profit generating unit, so seeling this means that Williams is desperate for cash.



#6505 Steve99

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 09:27

I recently read that Wlliams sold majority stake in its WAE unit. Williams Advanced Engineering. This is profit generating unit, so seeling this means that Williams is desperate for cash.

 

And had assets to sell. 



#6506 Beri

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 09:33

I recently read that Wlliams sold majority stake in its WAE unit. Williams Advanced Engineering. This is profit generating unit, so seeling this means that Williams is desperate for cash.



It could mean that. But it also could mean that selling it's majority stake of WAE will give way for WAE to deepen it's pockets and drill into new markets. At least have some muscle to do so.
It's too easy to say Williams needed cash. Aside from the fact that Williams Grand Prix Engineering (the F1 team) and WAE were total independent entities under the Williams holding.

#6507 PayasYouRace

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 09:38

I think the big problem with the team is that they have lots of ppl  around who pat their back saying it's all good, you're great, it's just temporary. 
Deep denial. Sorry to see them decline so badly. 

Nothing that has come out fo the team during the past year or so has suggested that. They’ve been talking about restructuring, about the season being a wake-up call, etc. They’re obviously well aware of the problems and are trying to get to the root of them.



#6508 Gemini

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 10:09

It could mean that. But it also could mean that selling it's majority stake of WAE will give way for WAE to deepen it's pockets and drill into new markets. At least have some muscle to do so.
It's too easy to say Williams needed cash. Aside from the fact that Williams Grand Prix Engineering (the F1 team) and WAE were total independent entities under the Williams holding.

 

Fair enough

 

Let's hope for the best. They sold to private equity fund and those have quite a reputation. Either you grow fast or they strip you of assets and let die.

 

But I hope they support them to grow and whatever cash goes to racing the better. This is brutal financial year for all teams, 



#6509 Beri

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 10:52

Williams has sold its grounds surrounding the factory as well some two years ago. In effect Williams has been trying to cash in for some time now. Im not saying it isnt the case to lighten the burden of the debt. In fact it is likely to be the case. But it is too easy to call it a certainty. So lets indeed hope for the better.


Edited by Beri, 03 January 2020 - 10:54.


#6510 Steve99

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 11:38

Fair enough

 

Let's hope for the best. They sold to private equity fund and those have quite a reputation. Either you grow fast or they strip you of assets and let die.

 

But I hope they support them to grow and whatever cash goes to racing the better. This is brutal financial year for all teams, 

 

They sold a stake in Williams Advanced Engineering, not Williams Grand Prix Engineering. 



#6511 Gemini

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 18:22

They sold a stake in Williams Advanced Engineering, not Williams Grand Prix Engineering. 

 

Why you are telling me something  I already said  in my post #6605 few hours ago?  :yawnface:



#6512 taran

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 09:34

Stroll was said to have paid $25m p.a. for his drive at Williams so Latifi's funding would probably be around that. Maybe a bit less because Williams isn't competitive and thus rates are lower. Kubica's sponsorship was said to be around $10m so there's likely to be an improvement there. If it is enough to off-set the loss of Rexona, even with increased sponsorship by Rokit (which might have money behind it but is still very much a niche player in a very crowded smartphone market) is anyone's guess.



#6513 Mohican

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 14:14

$25m ? That must be for two years 2017-18, surely ?

#6514 Mohican

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 15:31

https://www.autospor...nt-allow-repeat

Do here is Claire explaining that Williams really needed to hit rock bottom for everybody to realise that they had a problem...yeah, right.

Good luck with that.

#6515 Victor

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 15:34

IMO, selling WAE is a major sign of financial problemas and a technical disaster. WAE was very profitable and was bringing cash to WGPE, which is not profitable. Selling the family jewels is always a bad sign. Technically it is terrible: with WAE, Williams was a technically independent F1 team, without it , the team runs the risk of becoming another Haas or Sauber. I hope not, as Williams has a fantastic pedigree and has been a proper racing team for decades.



#6516 Mohican

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 15:50

What do you mean, another Sauber ?

Sauber has an F1 team, a wind tunnel and a growing third party engineering business; it owns its factory and has a growing workforce. And its F1 team has improved from running at the back to running in the midfield, and has a former F1 world champion among its drivers.

Williams has a “fantastic pedigree and has been a proper racing team for decades” ? Sauber has been in F1 for 27 years, and were Group C world champions and Le Mans winners before that.

Just accept that Williams are at the bottom of the pile, and it is their own lack of management that has created this situation- which can be resolved, Sauber’s history in last three years shows that is possible.

But to say that Williams used to be good is totally irrelevant. Lotus, Brabham, Tyrrell and many others used to be good, too.

#6517 Mohican

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 15:56

Williams have used up Randstad, Martini and Unilever as commercial sponsors and in addition consumed driver-linked funds from Stroll, SMP Racing and now Orlen - all of whom have walked away.

I don’t think that the Latifi money will make much difference; and Russell may end up as another Wehrlein if he is not careful, being found superfluous to requirements by Mercedes.

#6518 Victor

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 16:02

What do you mean, another Sauber ?

Sauber has an F1 team, a wind tunnel and a growing third party engineering business; it owns its factory and has a growing workforce. And its F1 team has improved from running at the back to running in the midfield, and has a former F1 world champion among its drivers.

Williams has a “fantastic pedigree and has been a proper racing team for decades” ? Sauber has been in F1 for 27 years, and were Group C world champions and Le Mans winners before that.

Just accept that Williams are at the bottom of the pile, and it is their own lack of management that has created this situation- which can be resolved, Sauber’s history in last three years shows that is possible.

But to say that Williams used to be good is totally irrelevant. Lotus, Brabham, Tyrrell and many others used to be good, too.

What I meant was that Sauber is currently just a Ferrari B team. I would not like this to happen to a team like Williams,a previous WDC and WCC winner. No disrespect to Sauber, though.



#6519 Anderis

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 16:23

$25m ? That must be for two years 2017-18, surely ?

More likely $25m annually all things considered.



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#6520 BRG

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 16:23

The only comparison I would want to make between Sauber and Williams is that Sauber reached rock-bottom and have managed to recover, so WIlliams can do so too.  



#6521 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 16:27

https://www.autospor...nt-allow-repeat

Do here is Claire explaining that Williams really needed to hit rock bottom for everybody to realise that they had a problem...yeah, right.

Good luck with that.

So glad you’re here to shit on the team at every opportunity.



#6522 Marklar

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 16:40

Sauber is now running with Alfa money, technnically calling them Sauber is even wrong, needed also Swedish investors to survive and has sold its soul to Ferrari entirely. I cant say that this is something to aim for, although I suppose in today's F1 you probably cant aim for much more.


Edited by Marklar, 05 January 2020 - 16:40.


#6523 Mohican

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Posted 06 January 2020 - 07:40

It has sold its soul entirely? How do you know that ? Granted, they have given Ferrari control of one of the seats, but presumably that arrangement only lasts as long as the Alfa Romeo sponsorship does.

Look at their website. They run an F1 team called Alfa Romeo Racing and the car is known as such, but the company is still called Sauber. “Sauber Engineering” still appears on the car, too.

All in all, appears to me that they did what they had to in order to survive, but also to build a strategic partnership with Ferrari - which is not the same thing as selling your soul. Sauber if anybody would know, following their experience with BMW.

www.sauber-group.com

#6524 Mohican

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Posted 06 January 2020 - 07:45

So glad you’re here to **** on the team at every opportunity.


I am only pointing out that Williams will not get far under current management. Do you really think that the people responsible for creating current situation will also be the ones to solve it ?

#6525 Beri

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Posted 06 January 2020 - 08:30

I am only pointing out that Williams will not get far under current management. Do you really think that the people responsible for creating current situation will also be the ones to solve it ?


That isn't the case with key people leaving like Lowe. New people have filled the void, key issues have been addressed and got fixed. So I don't know where your whole attitude is coming from.

#6526 sgtkate

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Posted 06 January 2020 - 09:53

I am only pointing out that Williams will not get far under current management. Do you really think that the people responsible for creating current situation will also be the ones to solve it ?


[jcbc3: content removed] we don't know what the real problems are. Sure we see a slow car but we don't know if it's a lack of money, leadership, technical knowledge or plain bad luck on the design route with the cars that has put them in this position. Of course the top person ultimately carries the can but unless the root cause can be found changing leadership during a crisis can exacerbate things by causing more uncertainty. It can also fix them by rejuvenating a company depending on the circumstances. Nothing is simple.


Edited by jcbc3, 10 January 2020 - 11:40.


#6527 Mohican

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Posted 06 January 2020 - 09:57

[jcbc3: content removed]
Anyway, whatever the causes it will not be easy to fix; agree that nothing is simple.



#6528 Mohican

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Posted 06 January 2020 - 09:59

That isn't the case with key people leaving like Lowe. New people have filled the void, key issues have been addressed and got fixed. So I don't know where your whole attitude is coming from.


It comes from not agreeing with you; I don’t believe that key issues have been fixed.

#6529 pdac

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Posted 06 January 2020 - 13:33

People in the UK may be wrong...
Anyway, whatever the causes it will not be easy to fix; agree that nothing is simple.

 

I'm by no means saying it is ... but everything may be fixed already. You've no way of telling what the current state of things are until their new car hits the track (and even then, it may not be a true indicator).



#6530 Beri

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Posted 06 January 2020 - 22:18

So Lavazza it is?

ENmytJUU4AA5lS6.jpg

#6531 Steve99

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Posted 07 January 2020 - 10:17

Is that an old pic? Still got his Orlen logo!



#6532 GiorgioF1

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Posted 07 January 2020 - 13:11

That isn't the case with key people leaving like Lowe. New people have filled the void, key issues have been addressed and got fixed. So I don't know where your whole attitude is coming from.

You mean the same people that were responsible for the major mid-season update of almost 70-80% of FW42 that gained them nothing like Claire was suggesting it would bring? Also it's curious that people are so positive that key issues have indeed been fixed if that team to this day is the only one without a proper Technical Director.

 

2020 will be a writeoff for Williams from the start of the season because FW42 is a crap base to build upon (contrary to what Williams said) and it will make no sense whatsoever to throw even more money on making that shitbox being close to the midfield this time. They need to fully concentrate on FW44 and if they screw even that up - it's game over.



#6533 Beri

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Posted 07 January 2020 - 15:48

2020 was a write off even before 2019 ended. Expecting Williams to gain 2 seconds to just be in the huddle puddle for points is not realistic.
2020 is about survival and 2021 should be embraced and dealt with very carefully. Because if they miss out on 2021, then it could be over very quick.

Anywho, Sofina has increased their sponsorship. More money involved by Latifi as said before.

#6534 SparkPlug86

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 09:10

https://www.grandpri...ow-at-williams/

 

For info - seems it may be around £40m



#6535 Anderis

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 10:14

Not £40m but $40m. That's quite a difference because $40m ~ £30m ATM.

 

So I can easily repeat: what you're saying is that Latifi will pay 25mln for 2nd seat in the worst team. 
My point beeing: no, he won't. Latifis aren't stupid. Not after Stroll, SMP, Orlen. So the other option is that Williams will be short on money. Again.

So are Latifis quite a lot more stupid than you thought, then? :p
 



#6536 jcbc3

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Posted 10 January 2020 - 11:45

[mod hat]

Please refrain from dragging unrelated politics into this thread

[/mod hat]



#6537 Tsarwash

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Posted 10 January 2020 - 14:40

So Lavazza it is?
 

Lavazza is not exactly top range coffee, is it ? I understand them as a sponsor, but I wouldn't really expect members of the team have to drink the stuff. 



#6538 barrykm

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Posted 10 January 2020 - 15:09

Lavazza is not exactly top range coffee, is it ? I understand them as a sponsor, but I wouldn't really expect members of the team have to drink the stuff. 

 

Hmm, I think Lavazza is quite drinkable actually (Crema e Gusto Dolce, brewed in a Moka pot). A matter of personal taste of course.


Edited by barrykm, 10 January 2020 - 15:12.


#6539 bargeboard

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Posted 10 January 2020 - 15:49

Another new sponsor, Royal Bank of Canada.

 

https://www.williams...canada-for-2020

 

Glad my small business banking fees are going to something useful!



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#6540 Berner

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Posted 10 January 2020 - 16:38

RBC.... didn't they just sell off their Caribbean network? And Lavazza is pretty tasty coffee but a minor player in Canada. Sofina, on the other hand, is a big boy in the Canadian food industry. There's plenty of $$$ in them thar pockets, cowboy. Next up, that Laliberte kid as lorry driver!



#6541 Tsarwash

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Posted 10 January 2020 - 17:01

Hmm, I think Lavazza is quite drinkable actually (Crema e Gusto Dolce, brewed in a Moka pot). A matter of personal taste of course.

The stuff you get in this country is pretty standard, but I expect it can be better in other countries. 



#6542 Anderis

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Posted 10 January 2020 - 17:09

Lavazza is not exactly top range coffee, is it ? I understand them as a sponsor, but I wouldn't really expect members of the team have to drink the stuff. 

They can't force members of the team to drink anything, they're free people. :stoned:

 

The only implication this kind of deals are bringing is that should they want to drink another brand of coffee in places where a camera can catch them, they will have to disguise the brand of it.



#6543 Francesc

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Posted 10 January 2020 - 18:19

With RBC that's it, all the sponsors from Latifi have been announced. I can't see anymore joining. Maybe the one who's bankrolling Nissany.



#6544 MaGiK

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 09:31

So Nissany got announced as their test driver (with 3 FP1s).



#6545 Beri

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 09:34

So Nissany got announced as their test driver (with 3 FP1s).


So, what sponsor has Nissany bound to Williams then?

#6546 Rinehart

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 10:19

The only comparison I would want to make between Sauber and Williams is that Sauber reached rock-bottom and have managed to recover, so WIlliams can do so too.  

The only way to save Williams at this point is to sell it. That's obvious...



#6547 PayasYouRace

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 10:21

The only way to save Williams at this point is to sell it. That's obvious...

 

That's wouldn't be saving Williams. That would be throwing it away.



#6548 JavierDeVivre

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 11:01

Lavazza is not exactly top range coffee, is it ? I understand them as a sponsor, but I wouldn't really expect members of the team have to drink the stuff. 

What on earth makes you think they would expect team members to have to drink the stuff?

Sure, as part of the deal there is likely to be provisions for team members to drink it should they wish to do so, but they are hardly going to be forced to. 



#6549 SparkPlug86

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 11:48

I actually quite like Lavazza coffee...  :lol:



#6550 Paco

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 14:47

Russell just keeps impressing more and more with all his interviewsz. Such a mature head and good guy. Great comments about how many focus on the lesser driver then the guy doing well and the negativity focus..