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Williams: Drivers, management and other folks at Grove 2019


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#6551 Paco

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 14:50

Next 2 years will determine if Williams can recover when they limp into the cost control era (if that even works out to be manageable thing that I don’t believe for a sec will work)..

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#6552 ForzaFormula

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 15:04

Lavazza is not exactly top range coffee, is it ? I understand them as a sponsor, but I wouldn't really expect members of the team have to drink the stuff. 

 

It's pretty top of the range in Europe at least, and is easily one of the top 3 brands on brand popularity and quality. Lavazza gold is top stuff even for "some" Italians, and that says allot.

 

Russell just keeps impressing more and more with all his interviewsz. Such a mature head and good guy. Great comments about how many focus on the lesser driver then the guy doing well and the negativity focus..

 

 

 

 

He's very level headed and honest. It is a good point about the lesser driver, despite the polish fans crying Williams was actually putting most of their efforts towards Kubica and helping him be comfortable than they did to support Russell, as Russell just got along with it and did his talking on track, and did not need "extra support" "special equipment" or "extra attention" such as Kubica needed. I think the polish fans undervalue and underappreciated how much support and work they put into working with Kubica even with his constant bickering and negativity towards them.


Edited by ForzaFormula, 15 January 2020 - 15:05.


#6553 Beri

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 15:20

It was a big event where Nissany was announced. Must be some heavy (Israeli?) money involved.

#6554 Anja

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 15:28

https://www.motorspo...driver/4651816/

 

They are really trying to convince us he wasn't hired for the money. Wow, just wow. 


Edited by Anja, 15 January 2020 - 15:29.


#6555 PayasYouRace

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 15:30

The money is a given. Those are the reasons they’ve hired him over others with similarly deep pockets.

#6556 Beri

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 15:32

The car at the event was liveried with ROKiT Drinks taking over the Unilever spot. Lavazza was on the engine cover. No Israeli sponsor in sight tho..

#6557 maximilian

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 15:36

Nissany is a new low in the already long chain of lows.  Sad to think that he'll be in the car in 3 FPs, while Chadwick more than likely will just sit around in the paddock with headphones on.



#6558 Beri

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 15:41

Took a while before I could get a hold onto a good resolution picture of the announcement event.

Israël startup Nation is the sponsor that did bring Nissany to Williams.. a cycling team if I'm not mistaken?

https://pbs.twimg.co...&name=4096x4096

(Hopefully the image works)

(Edit: it doesn't. Just click the link)

Edited by Beri, 15 January 2020 - 15:43.


#6559 BRG

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 16:52

https://www.motorspo...driver/4651816/

 

They are really trying to convince us he wasn't hired for the money. Wow, just wow. 

You are harking back to the good old days aren't you?  When the team would have said " We've taken this bloke because he is bringing a lot of cash,  he is a worthless w-anchor and a complete waste of space, but the team accountant is very pleased with him".  When were those good old days, by the way?



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#6560 Anja

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 17:04

You are harking back to the good old days aren't you?  When the team would have said " We've taken this bloke because he is bringing a lot of cash,  he is a worthless w-anchor and a complete waste of space, but the team accountant is very pleased with him".  When were those good old days, by the way?

 

But why even say anything? Just release a dry, formal announcement and leave it at that. Everyone knows what's really going on and why they won't say more to stay as dignified as possible in the situation. Creating all this unnecessary "explanation" is just embarrassing.



#6561 BRG

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 17:34

But why even say anything? Just release a dry, formal announcement and leave it at that. Everyone knows what's really going on and why they won't say more to stay as dignified as possible in the situation. Creating all this unnecessary "explanation" is just embarrassing.

I agree completely. 

 

But sadly the PR industry has taken over the world and demands that much pointless waffle must be churned out for every insignificant detail.  Hence all this rubbish that he hear about 'partners' instead of sponsors as they were always known.   And if you don't toe the PR line, there will be a Twitter meltdown.  Look at all the abuse heaped on Arrivabene just for refusing the talk to the media.  



#6562 GiorgioF1

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 19:52

The car at the event was liveried with ROKiT Drinks taking over the Unilever spot. Lavazza was on the engine cover. No Israeli sponsor in sight tho..

Am I the only one really surprised by the small presence of Latifi's brands on the car? Orlen had more space for $12m.



#6563 cbbcisace

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 20:09

Am I the only one really surprised by the small presence of Latifi's brands on the car? Orlen had more space for $12m.


This won’t be final placing for the sponsors, Williams did the same last winter when Kubica joined

#6564 GiorgioF1

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 20:43

This won’t be final placing for the sponsors, Williams did the same last winter when Kubica joined

During both Orlen's reveal and then later during the new livery reveal @ Grove the sponsor logos were placed exactly where they appear on the real FW42. They got the deals signed by now and what they showed is where the logos will be on the FW43..



#6565 Anderis

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 22:38

Nissany is a new low in the already long chain of lows.  Sad to think that he'll be in the car in 3 FPs, while Chadwick more than likely will just sit around in the paddock with headphones on.

Nissany's single seater record is neither worse than Chadwick's nor Gelael's who was doing FPSs for Toro Rosso so I see no point in exaggerating this as a some kind of a new low.



#6566 NikL

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 22:53

 

….the team is adamant that boosting its finances was not the key motivating factor for hiring him.

 

I can see BS like this will just drive more fans away from bothering to watch F1 especially if they have to pay to watch it.



#6567 Paco

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 02:08

I can see BS like this will just drive more fans away from bothering to watch F1 especially if they have to pay to watch it.


I doubt that. Plus, the kid hasn’t even been given a fair shake yet, give the kid 3-6 races before all doom and gloom about his signing. He’s not the only pay guy out and won’t be the last... There is other guys out there that are not as good as guys on the sidelines due to money politics etc. That’s F1... yeah Williams has been hobbled by them for a while but they still have Russell so treat it like Ferrari of old.. one good one support. Hopefully he’ll give George more of a challenge on Saturdays so George can up his game a bit in prep for better drives later..

Edited by Paco, 16 January 2020 - 02:09.


#6568 HeadFirst

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 03:09

I must be confused, or is all this ranting and raving about a guy signed to 3 FPs?



#6569 Rinehart

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 09:33

Next 2 years will determine if Williams can recover when they limp into the cost control era (if that even works out to be manageable thing that I don’t believe for a sec will work)..

Given that the budget cap is way higher than Williams budget, I don't think it will be a factor...



#6570 Sterzo

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 09:40

I actually quite like Lavazza coffee...  :lol:

Are you available for a few First Practice sessions?



#6571 SparkPlug86

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 09:45

Are you available for a few First Practice sessions?

 

I wish that was a serious offer lol.  :lol:



#6572 Beri

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 10:57

I wish that was a serious offer lol. :lol:


If it were, you'd have a hard time doing a worse job than Nissany' father.

#6573 pdac

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 11:10

I can see BS like this will just drive more fans away from bothering to watch F1 especially if they have to pay to watch it.

 
What "….the team is adamant that boosting its finances was not the key motivating factor for hiring him." says to me is that the prerequisite for hiring anyone was a boost to the finances, but that wasn't the key motivator in hiring him over another driver who would boost the finances.


Edited by pdac, 16 January 2020 - 11:11.


#6574 BobbyRicky

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 11:29

Wow, getting Nissan on-board is huge! Maybe we'll see Nissan as a manufacturer in F1 soon!



#6575 Rydo

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 11:37


What "….the team is adamant that boosting its finances was not the key motivating factor for hiring him." says to me is that the prerequisite for hiring anyone was a boost to the finances, but that wasn't the key motivator in hiring him over another driver who would boost the finances.


Maybe because the other driver with the same money was in his early 40s, 3 stone overweight and trying to offload some cash before his divorce lawyer gets counting?

In all seriousness, this fella will never see a grand prix start. Williams need money. Kubica took his money to Alfa Romeo. No one with a decent pedigree and a serious budget would touch Williams given how dreadful they've been for 2 years.

#6576 pdac

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 12:48

Maybe because the other driver with the same money was in his early 40s, 3 stone overweight and trying to offload some cash before his divorce lawyer gets counting?

In all seriousness, this fella will never see a grand prix start. Williams need money. Kubica took his money to Alfa Romeo. No one with a decent pedigree and a serious budget would touch Williams given how dreadful they've been for 2 years.

 

Maybe, maybe not. Remember, if someone has pedigree and a serious budget but, for some reason, no other team is prepared to take them on, then maybe they would go to Williams.

 

It's obvious that Williams would not be the ideal target for any driver - nor would any team except for Ferrari, Mercedes or Red Bull. But drivers and their sponsors will choose between what's available and if there are little or no other options then not all are going to turn down a team just because of their performance over the last 2 years (or 5 years, or 10 years or however long they've been performing poorly).


Edited by pdac, 16 January 2020 - 12:49.


#6577 Paco

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 15:53

Given that the budget cap is way higher than Williams budget, I don't think it will be a factor...


If it means less resources for the top end of the grid it ***cough cough** help the tail end of the grid. I don’t for a sec think with manufacturers in that it will make a big dent, a dent yes but by no means a lot.

That said, I would like to see all the negativity kept down until at least the end of the 1st week of testing. I haven’t seen anything other then the quality of the 2nd driver being questionable but last year his test sessions were not bad. So giving the squad a chance after all the crap last year... they still have Russell... they have a chance at a refresh without Paddy. A more involved Patrick for whatever that is worth..

And passed crash test in a more professional manner then last year. Doubt they’ll be as part limited as last year so all sign THUS far is a better pre season then the last 2 years with Stroll holding them over the barrel and then the issues of last year from day of the driver announcement. This year everything seems professional, a more experienced Russell, they got new sponsorship and on track to at least have caught up to where they should have been at end of year.. now it’s just how far has everyone in the mid to back end improved.

I think HAAS is going to be off pace still... don’t see much in Renault and Alfa I doubt will make big gains so they have a chance to catch up and get back in the mix for some quali 2 sessions..

#6578 taran

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 15:59

Maybe, maybe not. Remember, if someone has pedigree and a serious budget but, for some reason, no other team is prepared to take them on, then maybe they would go to Williams.

 

It's obvious that Williams would not be the ideal target for any driver - nor would any team except for Ferrari, Mercedes or Red Bull. But drivers and their sponsors will choose between what's available and if there are little or no other options then not all are going to turn down a team just because of their performance over the last 2 years (or 5 years, or 10 years or however long they've been performing poorly).

 

I would disagree. A bad year at Williams could easily destroy your entire career (Sirotkin, Kubica). Far better to sit out that year and try to get a half-way decent seat somewhere else. You can show your talent at one of the mid-field teams. In a Williams you are pretty doomed....

 

Russell lucked out by putting in a perfect season but then he faced Kubica who clearly wasn't any good anymore. Against a better driver I think he would have had a more typical rookie season with rookie mistakes and trying to find missing speed by overdriving etc.



#6579 Paco

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 16:35

I would disagree. A bad year at Williams could easily destroy your entire career (Sirotkin, Kubica). Far better to sit out that year and try to get a half-way decent seat somewhere else. You can show your talent at one of the mid-field teams. In a Williams you are pretty doomed....

Russell lucked out by putting in a perfect season but then he faced Kubica who clearly wasn't any good anymore. Against a better driver I think he would have had a more typical rookie season with rookie mistakes and trying to find missing speed by overdriving etc.

I disagree about those 2. They simply got outclassed by their teammate so yeah.. they didn’t have much reason to stay on the grid even with money coming their way... nothing to do with Williams full stop. Their lack of any meaningful performance lead to departures. If you remove their names and emotional attachment and simply look at their performance levels, it’s hard to accept their reasoning for having stayed on the grid. Lance prob would have been dropped off the grid had it not been for his father paying his bills and buying a team. Has nothing to do with Williams or RP car.. if a driver dominates his teammate, he will almost certainly stay on the grid and move up in time. Ocon got a raw deal but MGP saved his career but he didn’t deserve to be dropped considering how close he was on Saturdays to a very quick Perez. So I don’t see how Sirokin or Kubica we’re effected by Williams... they simply were not good enough to justify keeping them even for cash in bank.

Nothing about Russell was luck. He had an amazing career prior to coming into F1. Nailed every test, practice and Quali and nearly every race.. for a rookie. Come on now. You don’t luck into that. He had such a measure of his teammate it kind of ruined races for him as he knew he could sit and wait and get him at a pitstop and then run miles away from him. His cautious lap 1 makes sense getting into an accident for a team that couldn’t risk it..

We will see this year if he gets more aggressive at the start of gp if they in the mix this year.

Russell debut as good if not better then Lando and as good as Charles was when he came in. Just because you are at the back doesn’t make your effort any less. Lots and lots of guys got their start at the back and like Russell proved their worth and ultimately when on to great careers. Only prob these days is manufacturer tie up like Mercedes and RB and not enough seats in those teams that it screws drivers careers.. there are a lot of seats that Russell could be in and driving way up the grid but Mercedes tie up holds him back. He needs another year of experience and prob keeping Bottaa made sense for Russell’s development even if it would have been great to see him try vs the lack of Result by Bottas at MGP. Even if doesn’t get promoted to MGP for 2021 I hope Mercedes free him by July 2020 and allow him to get closer to the front with a different squad.

Edited by Paco, 16 January 2020 - 20:09.


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#6580 Myrvold

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 16:59

I would disagree. A bad year at Williams could easily destroy your entire career (Sirotkin, Kubica). Far better to sit out that year and try to get a half-way decent seat somewhere else.


Sirotkin and/or SMP didnt want to continue with Williams IIRC. So who knows, if they had kept on in Williams things would've been different for him.

#6581 Berner

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 17:12

Forget Nissany....the big fish to hook is Sylvan Adams....check his bio on Wikipedia....the whole team is turning Canadian!



#6582 Paco

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 20:11

The Friday jr driver is just to get guys experience not sure why it’s even a point of concern lol. I’d rather even see 2 jr’s get a shot than just one.

Edited by Paco, 16 January 2020 - 20:12.


#6583 PayasYouRace

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 20:15

Forget Nissany....the big fish to hook is Sylvan Adams....check his bio on Wikipedia....the whole team is turning Canadian!

Not again!



#6584 Clatter

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 21:50

I would disagree. A bad year at Williams could easily destroy your entire career (Sirotkin, Kubica). Far better to sit out that year and try to get a half-way decent seat somewhere else. You can show your talent at one of the mid-field teams. In a Williams you are pretty doomed....

 

Russell lucked out by putting in a perfect season but then he faced Kubica who clearly wasn't any good anymore. Against a better driver I think he would have had a more typical rookie season with rookie mistakes and trying to find missing speed by overdriving etc.

 


I disagree. Sitting on the sidelines brings you to no ones attention. If they have the talent they can show it even in a bad car, and getting actual race experience is better than hiding away in the simulator. It used to be a regular occurence that rookies started in back of the grid teams, and the good ones could still make their way to the top.

#6585 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 22:12

I would disagree. A bad year at Williams could easily destroy your entire career (Sirotkin, Kubica). Far better to sit out that year and try to get a half-way decent seat somewhere else. You can show your talent at one of the mid-field teams. In a Williams you are pretty doomed....

....

 

Those two were just slower than their team mates....if you can't beat your team mate your career is done at any team.



#6586 Anderis

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 22:42

Those two were just slower than their team mates....if you can't beat your team mate your career is done at any team.

Not quite. Massa for example, beat his team mate only two times in 13 seasons (2009 and 2017 discarded) and was still getting contract extensions at competitive teams year by year.



#6587 Paco

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 23:03

Not quite. Massa for example, beat his team mate only two times in 13 seasons (2009 and 2017 discarded) and was still getting contract extensions at competitive teams year by year.


Just as Bottas will... Ferrari experience means something to engineers in lesser teams and Massa always proved to be a handy driver.. don’t forget he almost won a championship irregardless oh the circumstance. Easy to pass off results but he proved he belong all the while he was out there like Hulk.. maybe not the fastest but definitely worthy. For the ones highlight above... no way. Kubica I very loosely get the benefit of the doubt going into the year with loads of cash to boot with a hope and prayer he had the technical side still ability to contribute irregardless of hisbinjury but the others come on now.

#6588 steeng

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 02:43

It's pretty top of the range in Europe at least, and is easily one of the top 3 brands on brand popularity and quality. Lavazza gold is top stuff even for "some" Italians, and that says allot.

 

 

He's very level headed and honest. It is a good point about the lesser driver, despite the polish fans crying Williams was actually putting most of their efforts towards Kubica and helping him be comfortable than they did to support Russell, as Russell just got along with it and did his talking on track, and did not need "extra support" "special equipment" or "extra attention" such as Kubica needed. I think the polish fans undervalue and underappreciated how much support and work they put into working with Kubica even with his constant bickering and negativity towards them.

This is completely true.  Williams  did just about everything they could do to support and help Kubica.  And what did Kubica do in return?  Constantly complain and talk negatively about Williams.   Meanwhile,  Russell didn't complain and just got on with the job.

 

I'm totally convinced that Russell slots into a Mercedes in 2021.



#6589 taran

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 08:42

I disagree. Sitting on the sidelines brings you to no ones attention. If they have the talent they can show it even in a bad car, and getting actual race experience is better than hiding away in the simulator. It used to be a regular occurence that rookies started in back of the grid teams, and the good ones could still make their way to the top.

 

That was true in the past IMO but not really true in the past 10-15 years. In the past, reliability issues would allow minnows to pick up a shock result and allow a driver in a Minardi/Osella/Rial etc. to show what they could really do but with the practically bullet-proof reliability of the past 15 seasons that's not really the case anymore.

 

Now these drivers are totally anonymous in the back. Can anyone remember who drove for Manor during its many rebrands (Virgin, Marussia, Manor etc.)? Or who the Lotus/Caterham drivers were?

 

Obviously race experience is good but if it's done in a crapmobile, sponsors tend to lose interest. Assuming you have a good (patient) sponsor and can afford to buy a drive at a proper mid-field team, it's better to wait for an opportunity at a Force Canada, Haas or Sauberomeo where you can get points and positive attention than jump at a seat at Williams and chase the pack several laps down while your sponsor loses interest....

 

Maybe Williams will turn it around and produce a half-decent car and join the midfield again. Maybe they won't. Would you bet your (likely) only chance on Williams getting it right?

 

George Russel took a chance IMO and luckily it worked out for him. He didn't have a budget and Mercedes support only goes so far so he needed to get to F1 or risk being a forgotten man. He had nothing to lose. But had he gone up against Sirotkin, I don't think his reputation would be as high as it is now with a 21-0 qualifying victory and being clearly better than the man in the other Williams. Even not scoring a point while Kubica did didn't stick to him because he was clearly the better driver but against Sirotkin that wouldn't have been the case.



#6590 PayasYouRace

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 08:49

That was true in the past IMO but not really true in the past 10-15 years. In the past, reliability issues would allow minnows to pick up a shock result and allow a driver in a Minardi/Osella/Rial etc. to show what they could really do but with the practically bullet-proof reliability of the past 15 seasons that's not really the case anymore.

 

Now these drivers are totally anonymous in the back. Can anyone remember who drove for Manor during its many rebrands (Virgin, Marussia, Manor etc.)? Or who the Lotus/Caterham drivers were?

 

 

 

Team principals and the press tend to be observant of a driver’s performances. The guy scoring a point in a Minardi may have got the headlines but to those who matter they didn’t need the one fluke result to prove themselves in a good car. They have always been able to show what they can do, it’s not like having half the field retiring in front of you suddenly makes people go, “oh look he’s actually good.” That’s what drivers like Alonso and now Russell have done.

 

I’d bet many would remember drivers who impressed with Manor’s cars, such as Bianchi, Werhlein and Ocon. What about when Lotterer drove for Caterham? The ones who get forgotten are the ones who didn’t impress.



#6591 Clatter

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 08:57

That was true in the past IMO but not really true in the past 10-15 years. In the past, reliability issues would allow minnows to pick up a shock result and allow a driver in a Minardi/Osella/Rial etc. to show what they could really do but with the practically bullet-proof reliability of the past 15 seasons that's not really the case anymore.

Now these drivers are totally anonymous in the back. Can anyone remember who drove for Manor during its many rebrands (Virgin, Marussia, Manor etc.)? Or who the Lotus/Caterham drivers were?

Obviously race experience is good but if it's done in a crapmobile, sponsors tend to lose interest. Assuming you have a good (patient) sponsor and can afford to buy a drive at a proper mid-field team, it's better to wait for an opportunity at a Force Canada, Haas or Sauberomeo where you can get points and positive attention than jump at a seat at Williams and chase the pack several laps down while your sponsor loses interest....

Maybe Williams will turn it around and produce a half-decent car and join the midfield again. Maybe they won't. Would you bet your (likely) only chance on Williams getting it right?

George Russel took a chance IMO and luckily it worked out for him. He didn't have a budget and Mercedes support only goes so far so he needed to get to F1 or risk being a forgotten man. He had nothing to lose. But had he gone up against Sirotkin, I don't think his reputation would be as high as it is now with a 21-0 qualifying victory and being clearly better than the man in the other Williams. Even not scoring a point while Kubica did didn't stick to him because he was clearly the better driver but against Sirotkin that wouldn't have been the case.

They may be anonymous to those not involved in the sport and who are primarily just watching the race on TV, but the Teams have a much better view of the sport.

#6592 taran

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 09:39

They may be anonymous to those not involved in the sport and who are primarily just watching the race on TV, but the Teams have a much better view of the sport.

 

I know this is often bandied about but is it really true?

Have we as fans ever heard of a driver we didn’t rate but who was highly regarded by F1 insiders?

 

I think team managers, journalists etc. tend to be just as shallow as casual fans when it comes to evaluating drivers. They hear/read the same stories and (certainly in these content-driven days) know about as much as fans do unless they put in genuine effort to follow a particular driver in more detail.



#6593 Clatter

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 09:51

I know this is often bandied about but is it really true?
Have we as fans ever heard of a driver we didn’t rate but who was highly regarded by F1 insiders?

I think team managers, journalists etc. tend to be just as shallow as casual fans when it comes to evaluating drivers. They hear/read the same stories and (certainly in these content-driven days) know about as much as fans do unless they put in genuine effort to follow a particular driver in more detail.

I think so, but with the testing ban more drivers are getting picked up earlier on junior programs and are already contracted when they are farmed out. I think the likes of GR have shown more than just beating RK.

#6594 Rinehart

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 10:44

If it means less resources for the top end of the grid it ***cough cough** help the tail end of the grid. I don’t for a sec think with manufacturers in that it will make a big dent, a dent yes but by no means a lot.

That said, I would like to see all the negativity kept down until at least the end of the 1st week of testing. I haven’t seen anything other then the quality of the 2nd driver being questionable but last year his test sessions were not bad. So giving the squad a chance after all the crap last year... they still have Russell... they have a chance at a refresh without Paddy. A more involved Patrick for whatever that is worth..

And passed crash test in a more professional manner then last year. Doubt they’ll be as part limited as last year so all sign THUS far is a better pre season then the last 2 years with Stroll holding them over the barrel and then the issues of last year from day of the driver announcement. This year everything seems professional, a more experienced Russell, they got new sponsorship and on track to at least have caught up to where they should have been at end of year.. now it’s just how far has everyone in the mid to back end improved.

I think HAAS is going to be off pace still... don’t see much in Renault and Alfa I doubt will make big gains so they have a chance to catch up and get back in the mix for some quali 2 sessions..

 

I'm not being negative or even commenting on the teams possible performance level. I'm speaking purely from a commercial perspective. But ok, to be cynical, F1 is ultimately a spending league and there is a reason why Mercedes is the fastest, Williams the slowest. That won't change next year, logically. Last season after pre season testing most people ranked their expected level of performance by their assessment of testing times. I went in order of budget and I was just about bang on... Good for Williams if they're much more organised this year... I don't think it will make a lot of difference on the timesheets...



#6595 PayasYouRace

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 11:30

I know this is often bandied about but is it really true?

Have we as fans ever heard of a driver we didn’t rate but who was highly regarded by F1 insiders?

 

I think team managers, journalists etc. tend to be just as shallow as casual fans when it comes to evaluating drivers. They hear/read the same stories and (certainly in these content-driven days) know about as much as fans do unless they put in genuine effort to follow a particular driver in more detail.

 

Yes. I tend to think that we as fans have a really good grasp of who is doing what and where. Team personnel are even more aware, especially as in many cases it's their jobs to scout out new talent.

 

It might not be the case for a casual fan, but there tend not to be any around these parts.



#6596 hansmann

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 17:21

I know this is often bandied about but is it really true?

Have we as fans ever heard of a driver we didn’t rate but who was highly regarded by F1 insiders?

 

I think team managers, journalists etc. tend to be just as shallow as casual fans when it comes to evaluating drivers. They hear/read the same stories and (certainly in these content-driven days) know about as much as fans do unless they put in genuine effort to follow a particular driver in more detail.

 

I don't think so .

 

Casual viewers ( what's a casual 'fan' ? ) will probably have a hard time remembering any drivers' names .

Just like I'm watching Moto GP occasionally, but couldn't tell you the name of any rider present or past .

 

Once you get into a sport - or any topic for that matter - and follow it even cassually , names of people are beginning to stick .

 

And when you are professionally involved, your insight, knowledge and interest grows exponentially .

If it doesn't, you will be out of a job very quickly .



#6597 Nathan

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 19:00

I can see BS like this will just drive more fans away from bothering to watch F1 especially if they have to pay to watch it.

 

You only see Williams when they are being lapped anyways, so why would this have an effect?



#6598 SonGoku

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 01:10

Important sponsors leaving, they probably need Stroll-like investment from Latifi soon to survive.

#6599 Victor

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 09:08

Important sponsors leaving, they probably need Stroll-like investment from Latifi soon to survive.

And that is exactly what is happening. Even during Stroll's time Williams had a bunch of important sponsors that had nothing to do with the Stroll family. What we see now is that all Williams' major sponsors are all connected to Latifi. Williams now depends  directly or indirectly almost at 100% on Latifi's money. What will happen when Latifi decides to throw his millions elsewhere? The team loses ALL their income at once and will hardly survive. This Latifi dependence may seem to be a fair short term solution, but in the long run it may be a death sentence. McLaren at a point were in deep troubles but they always refused to follow this path. McLaren sold 10% to Stroll, but never gave up their independence.

As a Williams  supporter, I am getting more and more worried about the team's future. 



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#6600 Little Leaf

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 09:53

And that is exactly what is happening. Even during Stroll's time Williams had a bunch of important sponsors that had nothing to do with the Stroll family. What we see now is that all Williams' major sponsors are all connected to Latifi. Williams now depends  directly or indirectly almost at 100% on Latifi's money. What will happen when Latifi decides to throw his millions elsewhere? The team loses ALL their income at once and will hardly survive. This Latifi dependence may seem to be a fair short term solution, but in the long run it may be a death sentence. McLaren at a point were in deep troubles but they always refused to follow this path. McLaren sold 10% to Stroll, but never gave up their independence.

As a Williams  supporter, I am getting more and more worried about the team's future. 

I Rokit connected to Latifi? I thought not but really am not sure.

 

Anyway I think I speak for everyone that I hope the team has a dramatic upswing in fortunes this year and actually provide a car that can regularly challenge for points. I say that as sometimes I get the feeling some "fans" would revel in seeing Williams collapse, which would further reduce an already small grid