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Williams: Drivers, management and other folks at Grove 2019


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#6601 PayasYouRace

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 10:40

And that is exactly what is happening. Even during Stroll's time Williams had a bunch of important sponsors that had nothing to do with the Stroll family. What we see now is that all Williams' major sponsors are all connected to Latifi. Williams now depends  directly or indirectly almost at 100% on Latifi's money. What will happen when Latifi decides to throw his millions elsewhere? The team loses ALL their income at once and will hardly survive. This Latifi dependence may seem to be a fair short term solution, but in the long run it may be a death sentence. McLaren at a point were in deep troubles but they always refused to follow this path. McLaren sold 10% to Stroll, but never gave up their independence.

As a Williams  supporter, I am getting more and more worried about the team's future. 

 

Their title sponsor has nothing to do with Latifi. The money coming from Nissany has nothing to do with Latifi.

 

I get the concern and I agree the team aren't in a great position, but it's not quite in the death throws.



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#6602 Anderis

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 12:07

Maldonado-connected sponsors in 2011-2013 were making up a bigger percentage of total Williams' sponsorship income than Latifi connected sponsors are now.



#6603 DogEarred

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 12:21

Yes, it was incremental by a large percentage each year of the contract.

They paid the year up front too.

The last year of the contract would have yielded about 25 million dollars (or £ ?)

Don't know how the contract was concluded when Maldonado left.

#6604 Anderis

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 13:34

The last year of the contract would have yielded about 25 million dollars (or £ ?)

According to the leaks, the last year of the contract would be worth about £30m which was about $45m, but it wasn't much less than that from the beginning. This was an incredible deal for Williams which probably delayed its survival problems by quite a few good years. And then they got compensated for releasing Maldonado from the contract two years early as well. :smoking: The compensation was not worth as much as the final 2 years of the contract would be, though. But partying ways with PDVSA opened the way for Martini sponsorship.
 



#6605 Nathan

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 14:10

Rokit isn't related to Latifi.

 

If you look at Williams turnover, you see all this sponsor mumbo jumbo is about 20% of the teams annual budget.  It isn't near "all" the income.  Besides, Williams have been playing this pay driver game for a decade now.  The world is getting richer. Williams will always find a dad with the ability to transfer $20+ million.  It's the one thing they are truly great at.



#6606 Beri

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 19:20

And that is exactly what is happening. Even during Stroll's time Williams had a bunch of important sponsors that had nothing to do with the Stroll family. What we see now is that all Williams' major sponsors are all connected to Latifi. Williams now depends directly or indirectly almost at 100% on Latifi's money. What will happen when Latifi decides to throw his millions elsewhere? The team loses ALL their income at once and will hardly survive. This Latifi dependence may seem to be a fair short term solution, but in the long run it may be a death sentence. McLaren at a point were in deep troubles but they always refused to follow this path. McLaren sold 10% to Stroll, but never gave up their independence.
As a Williams supporter, I am getting more and more worried about the team's future.


ROKiT.

#6607 Paco

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 20:36

Interesting comments from Williams about early days with Ticktum in the simulator... wonder if Alfa are wondering if they made a good move if Williams can see a huge improvement in their new sim guy from what they had last year in their drivers.. Be awesome if Williams started better then Alfa... Alfa already struggling with crash testing, same drivers as last year.. be awesome if leaped then in Australia.

2020. Good sim driver. Good lead driver and decent 2nd driver rookie and perhaps having clawed backnlast year deficient according to Russell and Hope couple with some gains, passed crash test 1st time out saving them loads of time and also money.. all good signs of a better 2020...

Edited by Paco, 18 January 2020 - 20:40.


#6608 SonGoku

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 23:19

Interesting comments from Williams about early days with Ticktum in the simulator... wonder if Alfa are wondering if they made a good move if Williams can see a huge improvement in their new sim guy from what they had last year in their drivers.. Be awesome if Williams started better then Alfa... Alfa already struggling with crash testing, same drivers as last year.. be awesome if leaped then in Australia.

2020. Good sim driver. Good lead driver and decent 2nd driver rookie and perhaps having clawed backnlast year deficient according to Russell and Hope couple with some gains, passed crash test 1st time out saving them loads of time and also money.. all good signs of a better 2020...

 


We will see, it will be all for nothing if they are missing testing days again like last year, then you know enough about the state of the team. Also quite embarrassing for Merc as engine partner, but I guess they don't care aslong as RUS drives.

#6609 Paco

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 00:00

We will see, it will be all for nothing if they are missing testing days again like last year, then you know enough about the state of the team. Also quite embarrassing for Merc as engine partner, but I guess they don't care aslong as RUS drives.

I don’t think Mercedes gives a care... they don’t seem to care much about RP so why would they care for Williams as long they get paid reasonably on time.

Edited by Paco, 19 January 2020 - 00:01.


#6610 szym3k

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 03:22

Interesting comments from Williams about early days with Ticktum in the simulator... wonder if Alfa are wondering if they made a good move if Williams can see a huge improvement in their new sim guy from what they had last year in their drivers.. Be awesome if Williams started better then Alfa... Alfa already struggling with crash testing, same drivers as last year.. be awesome if leaped then in Australia.

2020. Good sim driver. Good lead driver and decent 2nd driver rookie and perhaps having clawed backnlast year deficient according to Russell and Hope couple with some gains, passed crash test 1st time out saving them loads of time and also money.. all good signs of a better 2020...

 

Now that Kubica is gone, all their problems will evaporate in the air. You're a genius, Paco. Can't wait to see Williams scoring podiums this year. 



#6611 Marklar

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 08:52

that aside that Kubica is not the only driver Alfa has in the sim

#6612 Tsarwash

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 16:49

As long as they keep Tictum in the simulator and away from the track then that can't be a bad thing, can it  ?



#6613 Clatter

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 20:30

As long as they keep Tictum in the simulator and away from the track then that can't be a bad thing, can it  ?

 


Think of the entertainment value of his possible antics though.

#6614 bargeboard

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 22:31

Going into this season, the bar is incredibly low. If they make testing on time with a new car, already ahead of last year. If it shows up further off the pace, that'll be bad, but best to cross that bridge when we get there.

#6615 absinthedude

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 09:16

I think we can dismiss the notion that Williams are relying on Latifi's money more than they have relied on "pay drivers" in the past. 

 

Interesting to read Claire Williams say that the 2020 car has already passed all the crash tests, when some tests were failed last year up to six times. I wasn't aware of that. Definitely reason to change the technical and design management. If the car at least has passed it's crash tests and is ready for the pre-season testing, there's less catch up involved. It's one thing having the slowest car....but you further hobble yourself if you miss half the testing!



#6616 Marklar

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 10:36

Latifi racing with #6 in 2020 https://twitter.com/...198318766645248



#6617 Beri

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 11:10

I think we can dismiss the notion that Williams are relying on Latifi's money more than they have relied on "pay drivers" in the past. 
 
Interesting to read Claire Williams say that the 2020 car has already passed all the crash tests, when some tests were failed last year up to six times. I wasn't aware of that. Definitely reason to change the technical and design management. If the car at least has passed it's crash tests and is ready for the pre-season testing, there's less catch up involved. It's one thing having the slowest car....but you further hobble yourself if you miss half the testing!


Im surprised that there are teams, IE Alfa Romeo, that do not pass the crash test for 2020 first time out. The cars arent that different to last year. Must mean that they have a (very) different car compared to 2019.

#6618 absinthedude

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 11:51

Im surprised that there are teams, IE Alfa Romeo, that do not pass the crash test for 2020 first time out. The cars arent that different to last year. Must mean that they have a (very) different car compared to 2019.

 

I believe that the best funded teams sometimes can afford to try things on the margins...and can "afford" to fail once or twice and redesign/manufacture. But for a team like Williams to fail more than one or two tests is pretty catastrophic. That may go some way to explaining why they were so late to testing in 2019. In the case of Alfa Romeo, I would imagine they'll pass second time around and not be much inconvenienced.

 

Not that Williams are desperately short on funds but they don't have the cash to splash on lots of failed crash tests, redesigns, remanufactures and more tests. 



#6619 PayasYouRace

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 12:35

Hey no pressure guys, but if anyone wants to kick off a 2020 thread for the team with a super OP you’re welcome to do so.



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#6620 Paco

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 15:42

What is a “super OP”?

#6621 midgrid

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 16:19

High-quality opening post.



#6622 Bleu

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 17:35

Some nice history of Williams #6:

 

e51a5b8540e24778a4655d6ceb099c95.jpg

open-uri20120927-1482-lfhcuh.jpg

 

5029080851_1991789314.jpg

Cs9l3CfWYAA2xKl.jpg

ralf_schumacher__1999__by_f1_history_dc2

d6ce543edaeb11f1d1d8275e57c95269--juan-p



#6623 hansmann

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 20:15

Im surprised that there are teams, IE Alfa Romeo, that do not pass the crash test for 2020 first time out. The cars arent that different to last year. Must mean that they have a (very) different car compared to 2019.

 

Or maybe their development schedule doesn't quite match the FIA testing schedule, and they just showed up as they had to, with a chassis that simply wasn't ready yet .

It's probably not ideal and costs them a few bucks; but they can repeat the test at their leisure .

I wouldn't read too much into it , if that's the only issue they have .



#6624 Rydo

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 20:24

I Rokit connected to Latifi? I thought not but really am not sure.

Anyway I think I speak for everyone that I hope the team has a dramatic upswing in fortunes this year and actually provide a car that can regularly challenge for points. I say that as sometimes I get the feeling some "fans" would revel in seeing Williams collapse, which would further reduce an already small grid


I don't think any true F1 fan would wish such a thing on Williams. There seems to be some vitriol towards Clare Williams for their complete collapse. I can't see anything improving dramatically for them in 2020. I'm hoping they're not so far behind this year and have the heavy hitters engaged in their 2021 car. Williams did quite well at the start of the turbo hybrid era. Hopefully they start the next era just as well.

It's fair to say that this is probably their absolute rock bottom.

#6625 Anderis

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 21:38

It's fair to say that this is probably their absolute rock bottom.

We had been saying the same in 2011, 2013 and 2018. :p

 

 



#6626 Paco

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 14:27

So tiring this constant rehash of the start of 2019... water under the bridge. What value is there slagging the team for what happened, new era and lessons learned.. why not discuss 2020 and what we have information and just put aside the mess of everything in Feb March until there is reason to if they repeat it.. right their is NO sign they will..

#6627 MrMonaco

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 14:31

So tiring this constant rehash of the start of 2019... water under the bridge. What value is there slagging the team for what happened, new era and lessons learned.. why not discuss 2020 and what we have information and just put aside the mess of everything in Feb March until there is reason to if they repeat it.. right their is NO sign they will..

What makes you think that Williams is having a new era moment? And do you reallt suggest that a sim driver is responsible for the lackluster performance in recent years?

#6628 taran

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 14:33

Williams is running a big team overhead (more than 600 staff etc.) while having a small team budget.

Meanwhile, their mid-grid rivals with similar budgets have less staff to pay, leaving more money for development.

 

Unless Williams finally slims down to its proper size, they will never get out of this death spiral.



#6629 Paco

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 15:40

What makes you think that Williams is having a new era moment? And do you reallt suggest that a sim driver is responsible for the lackluster performance in recent years?

.

Lowe gone. Didn’t hire from outside they going it internally to fix their issues.

#6630 Paco

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 15:44

What makes you think that Williams is having a new era moment? And do you reallt suggest that a sim driver is responsible for the lackluster performance in recent years?


Last season was a result of a lot of poor decisions.. no need to rehash but even prior but Stroll Paddy Kubica etc At least now they have had a chance for a reset and philosophy.. why going on and on and on about the past and just focus on the fact they have a design coming with little of Paddy, Russell suggesting they at least got a design to where it should have been at end of year and if they find some additional did and if someone else gets it wrong then they could be out of the last place position. They have a new proper driver in the 2nd seat and Russell now has a year under his belt.. all very positive signs. Nothing to indicate a reason for pessimism. Yeah they won’t be too 5 but prob at least competing vs just lapping and chances hopefully for P2

Edited by Paco, 21 January 2020 - 15:45.


#6631 Paco

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 15:47

Williams is running a big team overhead (more than 600 staff etc.) while having a small team budget.
Meanwhile, their mid-grid rivals with similar budgets have less staff to pay, leaving more money for development.

Unless Williams finally slims down to its proper size, they will never get out of this death spiral.


Don’t agree. Removing technical resources won’t help. It depends on where they are in June and how 2021 truly shakes out. Their biggest issue is an invigorated RP, Toro making some bold claims and a strong McLaren.. leaping then will be tough.

#6632 Alex79

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 09:55

At this point, Williams is at the same level as when the team was called Wolf Williams. Canadian Money, not a really good car, high chances of being a backmarker. But if they manage to survive 2020, maybe they can achieve the same as in 1979, when the change to a totally new car concept brought them fame and fortune. The biggest if will be, is management still afraid to leave the line of Sir Frank and will it stick by their privateer course, or will they finally learn.



#6633 pdac

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 11:18

At this point, Williams is at the same level as when the team was called Wolf Williams. Canadian Money, not a really good car, high chances of being a backmarker. But if they manage to survive 2020, maybe they can achieve the same as in 1979, when the change to a totally new car concept brought them fame and fortune. The biggest if will be, is management still afraid to leave the line of Sir Frank and will it stick by their privateer course, or will they finally learn.

 

Well, that comes down to whether Frank Williams will stick to the Frank Williams line.



#6634 Paco

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 15:31

At this point, Williams is at the same level as when the team was called Wolf Williams. Canadian Money, not a really good car, high chances of being a backmarker. But if they manage to survive 2020, maybe they can achieve the same as in 1979, when the change to a totally new car concept brought them fame and fortune. The biggest if will be, is management still afraid to leave the line of Sir Frank and will it stick by their privateer course, or will they finally learn.


Rules are so tight and they proceeding still with the same Power Unit a leap is unlikely. They’ll need a McLaren like improvement and then chip away.

#6635 BRG

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 15:51

... or will they finally learn.

Learn what?  Become like Manor or Caterham or phoney Lotus?  Or sell their soul like Sauber or Stewart or Jordan?



#6636 Paco

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 17:43

Learn what? Become like Manor or Caterham or phoney Lotus? Or sell their soul like Sauber or Stewart or Jordan?

Exactly. At least they holding to their principles and trying their hardest to stay truly independent and find a way through.

I don’t think they are close to those yet. Just a bad core concept for 2 years with little to try n fix as it was so far off of being reasonable to hobble a fix without bearing into their new concept.

Hopefully they have a better core concept this year.. even the mighty Ferrari may have gotten it wrong going the RB route for 2020. Haas got it wrong last year.. so stuff happens.. Renault still can’t build a respectable a good chassis.

Only Australia will really tell us if the bad concept is at fault or if they still have a gap in their design group.

Edited by Paco, 22 January 2020 - 17:46.


#6637 ch103

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 01:37

I always admired the passion of the Williams fans.  I say this as a Schumacher fan.  You people never bail on this team.  



#6638 Rjpscr

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 05:56

I always admired the passion of the Williams fans.  I say this as a Schumacher fan.  You people never bail on this team.  

you damn right haha, Williams Fan now and Forever. 



#6639 RA2

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 07:46

Learn what?  Become like Manor or Caterham or phoney Lotus?  Or sell their soul like Sauber or Stewart or Jordan?

 

 

Learn to spend 150 + million in a watchful manner rather than just signing the cheques and giving some lame interviews



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#6640 SparkPlug86

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 11:42

https://www.autospor...rize-money-drop

 

So, this sounds like Williams have found it very hard to put together a decent budget for this year. Openly admitting that the reason for selling a stake in WAE was to fund the racing team, and how heavily it relies on sponsorship is no surprise, but it's not nice to hear. 



#6641 absinthedude

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 11:48

https://www.autospor...rize-money-drop

 

So, this sounds like Williams have found it very hard to put together a decent budget for this year. Openly admitting that the reason for selling a stake in WAE was to fund the racing team, and how heavily it relies on sponsorship is no surprise, but it's not nice to hear. 

 

He's saying that it's not harder than it has been in recent years. Though the sale of WAE is a one-off, for sure. They need to secure their revenue going forward into the 2020s.



#6642 Nathan

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 17:57

F1 kit is waaay over priced.

 

Most every other major professional sport, you see people in the streets wearing their kit - either a jersey or a t-shirt or hat.  

 

These items are not as insanely priced as equivalent F1 kit.  

 

Williams still has huge fan appeal and heritage value.

 

Why doesn't Williams hire a couple people to produce cool Williams merchandise and sell it for normal prices?   I'm pretty sure it would produce higher profits than WAE ever did.  

 

I find the merchandise side of F1 is very immature and left to be 'premium' and underserved. 



#6643 Bloggsworth

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 19:25

F1 kit is waaay over priced.

 

Most every other major professional sport, you see people in the streets wearing their kit - either a jersey or a t-shirt or hat.  

 

These items are not as insanely priced as equivalent F1 kit.  

 

Williams still has huge fan appeal and heritage value.

 

Why doesn't Williams hire a couple people to produce cool Williams merchandise and sell it for normal prices?   I'm pretty sure it would produce higher profits than WAE ever did.  

 

I find the merchandise side of F1 is very immature and left to be 'premium' and underserved. 

I have my Wiliams golf cap from when they dabbled with golf clubs.



#6644 JordanIreland

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 20:50

Learn what? Become like Manor or Caterham or phoney Lotus? Or sell their soul like Sauber or Stewart or Jordan?

I’m not 100% sure the phrase sell their souls is correct for all 3? Sauber maybe but Stewart and Jordan just sold outright.

Sauber was struggling financially and Alfa Romeo came in, which is fantastic as it keeps a decent team going. However Sauber (Alfa Romeo) is now a Ferrari B team. But the team is still a decent team.

Stewart knew his team could never challenge for championship titles with its relatively limited budget. Sold to Ford who had big ambitions with no real strategy. Later sold to Red Bull which worked out very well.

Jordan was a decent team but ended up running into very limited budget operating levels and sold to the highest bidder to save the team. It’s now Racing Point and still a very decent team.

All 3 teams had very different reasons to sell out, but all 3 teams are extremely respectable.

Williams hasn’t been a championship contender since 2003. They are fully aware of this and say they are changing structures internally. I hope they have learned where they went wrong so they become a decent team again and not a permanent backmarker.

Or they may take a sell their soul approach and become a B team like Sauber or take a Stewart/Jordan approach and sell to the highest bidder.

Edited by JordanIreland, 23 January 2020 - 20:54.


#6645 Jambo

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 14:36

https://www.williams...XDMOlZclK8n9gu4

 

 

 

ROKiT Williams Racing is delighted to announce two new appointments that will strengthen its technical team. David Worner, who will be Chief Designer, and Jonathan Carter, who will be Deputy Chief Designer & Head of Design, both have many years of experience in the sport. They will take up these positions in the near future.

 

Obviously too late to affect this season but good to see strengthening of the technical department.

 

Good experience for both signings as well.



#6646 Paco

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 16:10

Well well, all the doom and groomers, Williams Instagram suggests Chassis 1 is well on its way so a repeat of last year doesn’t seem on the cards...

And signed some RB staffers for the chassis and aero department..

Edited by Paco, 28 January 2020 - 16:11.


#6647 MrMonaco

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 16:34

Great news, can we already call 2020 a success or should we wait for the first days of testing?

#6648 TomNokoe

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 17:32

I think Williams are going to turn up to Australia and shock a lot of people.

#6649 pdac

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 18:18

I'm still holding caution for (at least) the first half of 2020. They identified that things were rotten to the core at the start of the 2019 season so 2020 might be a bit early to resolve all of that.



#6650 Paco

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 18:49

Pretty sure they show up at 1st test with a mule car based on 2019 and maybe even the 2nd week with a proper car by race 3 or sooner.