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Williams: Drivers, management and other folks at Grove 2019


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#951 tghik

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 18:21

Why would they be at all interested in finding out who is the better driver? They have signed them both. Only fanboys need to know which one is the best (and even then, if their driver comes out worse, they will argue how unfair the comparison criteria were).

hmm what ??? it's not about finding who is the better driver, it's about giving the best possible cars to both your drivers so they can achieve the best possible results, also so they can work on a car that is reliably giving correlated data, and at this stage is having 2 cars presenting the same measurements. And even if some doubt Kubica's talent as a tester and his feedback, you have confirmation from the sensors. How can you develop the car when the sensors give you 2 different values for the same setup ? geez, come on guys because it gets ridiculous.

 

Why would Russell agree to that?

because he is an employee

 

Whose future may be put in jeopardy here though? The Mercedes junior driver or the guy making a comeback for a couple of seasons?

 

Well according to British media Kubica is doing worse and he is the next Merc driver so I don't understand your question ?



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#952 polesetter1

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 18:48

It also talks about Roberts fastest 10 laps being 1s slower then Russells fastest 10 laps showing how his long race pace is very much off.  

 

I agree with the most of what you're posting but... don't you think that this stat can be misleading due to different strategy? ;) Kubica is currently clearly slower in race pace. Clearly but marginally. I'm having a notion that he really struggles with lapping. He seems to lose much more time on that than Russell. Also today, the Brit avoided being lapped by Ricciardo train, by doing the pit stop, while Kubica had to let them through and lose some time. Plus the long pit stop and the difference shrinks to few seconds on race distance. I judge the race pace difference to be around 0,15 secs. The beginning of the race was really bad for the Pole. He was utterly slow then. Maybe he struggles more, when the car is heavy?



#953 pdac

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 18:50

hmm what ??? it's not about finding who is the better driver, it's about giving the best possible cars to both your drivers so they can achieve the best possible results, also so they can work on a car that is reliably giving correlated data, and at this stage is having 2 cars presenting the same measurements. And even if some doubt Kubica's talent as a tester and his feedback, you have confirmation from the sensors. How can you develop the car when the sensors give you 2 different values for the same setup ? geez, come on guys because it gets ridiculous.

 

because he is an employee

 

 

Well according to British media Kubica is doing worse and he is the next Merc driver so I don't understand your question ?

 

What, like 19 and 20, instead of 20 and 19?



#954 tghik

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 18:56

What, like 19 and 20, instead of 20 and 19?

you are so predictable, I was waiting for someone to react to this while ignoring the rest (the important part for Williams at this stage). geez pdac !!!!!



#955 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 19:20

Did you read that interview??????   I just did.  Kubica clearly communicates HE has no pace, and it's not just car related.  The changes he makes improves things and also makes things worse so all this idea of the 8% chassis off just doesn't add up to that interview.  It also seems his car isn't damaged.

 

He says he is lost on how to put the power down .. very very very much like Gasly is finding at RB..  He can't drive the car like he wants. 

 

It also talks about Roberts fastest 10 laps being 1s slower then Russells fastest 10 laps showing how his long race pace is very much off.   He knew he needed to learn to optimize his qualifying and knew going into 2019 that was an area to work on but his race pace is completely gone and can't understand why when last year it was good in testing.    LOL. testing is as ideal a situation as there is, very rarely moving off line and cooling off temps picking up marbles and having to scrub all that away.

 

There was a greast interview with Albion post race in China and he says how useful F2 is and how relatable it is to F1 in how to work the tires as they are Pirellis as well so their warm-up, how to push them etc is directly useful.  This is something Kubica has no previous "race" experience with and it's showing.  The question is whether he adaptable enough to overcome it, he highlighted how in the past he just push for a few laps (think he said 3-4) and then he'd be fine. 

 

That interview made it pretty clear, its not a poor chassis specific as to what Kubica is struggling as many here feel.  It is the case that he can't get a feel on how to get the tires into their operating window under non-ideal testing smooth conditions (hence I was good in testing but not in races) and having to cope in a race and ie doesn't situational awareness for the tire compounds when he has to keep going offline, how to keep the temps up, how to scrub them, how to maximise 1 lap performance and keep enough tire to last a stint yadda yadda..  We often hear even messing up 1 corner completes ruins the speed of a set of tires..  He goes on to highlight how Russell pulls away and he gets wheel spin, like Gasly is finding this year.

 

I wonder if his attitude may limit his openness to a strange approach to get tires to work that was never required or even imagined in the past..  I wouldn't be surprised if we see a garage swap like Nico Rosberg got to help address any weakness he may have and see if a fresh engineering team will help..

 

That all said, doesn't really effect Williams as team at this point in their performance level so... hopefully if Head gets to get grips with the car and gets into a better window that Kubica will have gotten better on his tires.

 

I did not only read the article. I have even heard Robert's post race interview in his native language. He was talking about his race pace in that car and not about himself being slow (not about not having the raw speed anymore). He said his race pace last year was strong and this year isn't anymore since he is driving that car. 

 

English is not his native language, maybe he didn't express his thoughts precisely enough, maybe Mr. Elizalde didn't understand him properly. I have experienced many times some discrepancies in the original interviews and it's translations for example on one big german web page.

 

As to his race pace, the analysis of his lap times from Australia and Bahrain don't prove he hasn't the race pace anymore. He is sometimes too critical to himself. Some time ago he said that he had to laugh when his race engineer told him his race pace was very good, because he thought he was slow.



#956 pdac

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 19:26

you are so predictable, I was waiting for someone to react to this while ignoring the rest (the important part for Williams at this stage). geez pdac !!!!!

 

Williams, at this stage (as I've said already) do not have a race car. They are not going racing. So why bother doing all of this stuff that is only applicable to teams that are racing?



#957 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 19:29

 

It also talks about Roberts fastest 10 laps being 1s slower then Russells fastest 10 laps showing how his long race pace is very much off.  

 

Some of the 10 fastest laps of Russel may come from his last stint on fresh qualifying tyres (and a light car). Kubica was on a 1 pit strategy, Russel had additional pit a few laps before the end of the race.



#958 Maxioos

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 19:40

Indeed, such numbers without context doesn't say anything. At one point they where up till p12 (than they had to pit Kubica) but they kept him out and dropped on track back. But alone the fact that they where still inside the pistop windows during first pitstops made me happy and look closer at their times. The VS isn't important atm. First catching back midfield and participate in the real race. I also keep the fact that the cars do finish and make it the whole weekend as a positivity sign.

#959 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 19:41

 

There was a greast interview with Albion post race in China and he says how useful F2 is and how relatable it is to F1 in how to work the tires as they are Pirellis as well so their warm-up, how to push them etc is directly useful.  This is something Kubica has no previous "race" experience with and it's showing.  The question is whether he adaptable enough to overcome it, he highlighted how in the past he just push for a few laps (think he said 3-4) and then he'd be fine. 

 

That interview made it pretty clear, its not a poor chassis specific as to what Kubica is struggling as many here feel.  It is the case that he can't get a feel on how to get the tires into their operating window under non-ideal testing smooth conditions (hence I was good in testing but not in races) and having to cope in a race and ie doesn't situational awareness for the tire compounds when he has to keep going offline, how to keep the temps up, how to scrub them, how to maximise 1 lap performance and keep enough tire to last a stint yadda yadda.. 

 

 

 

"We tried a similar strategy [one stop like Robert] with George, but the length of the stint and the loss of some tyre temperature meant that ultimately, we opted to pit George for a second time and allow him to finish the race on a new qualifying tyre."

 

Funny that it was GR and not RK who wasn't able to nurse his tyres good enough and needed an additonal stop...



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#960 AndyPerry

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 19:56

"We tried a similar strategy [one stop like Robert] with George, but the length of the stint and the loss of some tyre temperature meant that ultimately, we opted to pit George for a second time and allow him to finish the race on a new qualifying tyre."

Funny that it was GR and not RK who wasn't able to nurse his tyres good enough and needed an additonal stop...


... and still ended up ahead. Your point being?

#961 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 20:14

... and still ended up ahead. Your point being?

 

Paco argues that RK is struggling to get the tires into the operating window in the race conditons. But he somehow was able to make a one stop whereas GR wasn't. 



#962 RacingGreen

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 20:14

"We tried a similar strategy [one stop like Robert] with George, but the length of the stint and the loss of some tyre temperature meant that ultimately, we opted to pit George for a second time and allow him to finish the race on a new qualifying tyre."

 

Funny that it was GR and not RK who wasn't able to nurse his tyres good enough and needed an additonal stop...

 

The only thing "funny" was RK trying to put heat in the tyres and spinning on the formation lap.

 

From his post race comments "I then had a good start and I went to the inside line but honestly, I didn’t want to risk anything. I was close to one of the Racing Point’s and I was on the inside and I didn’t know if he would tighten the line, so I left enough space and lost two places there. It is difficult to risk something when you know the pace will be what it will be." Those are not the words of a racing driver, he just sounds utterly demoralized and totally defeated. I hope Williams can deliver a decent set of updates soon so that he can actually race someone but form those comments RK's lost his mojo which is really sad to see.



#963 MadYarpen

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 20:21

Oh ffs, I remember when in Australia he lost his wing after going for it at the start people were criticising him for doing so, that he should know he cannot fight and should let it go.

 

Now he did just that and he lost his mojo.

 

He does seem lost, I'm not saying he doesn't, but come on.


Edited by MadYarpen, 14 April 2019 - 20:21.


#964 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 20:34

The only thing "funny" was RK trying to put heat in the tyres and spinning on the formation lap.

 

From his post race comments "I then had a good start and I went to the inside line but honestly, I didn’t want to risk anything. I was close to one of the Racing Point’s and I was on the inside and I didn’t know if he would tighten the line, so I left enough space and lost two places there. It is difficult to risk something when you know the pace will be what it will be." Those are not the words of a racing driver, he just sounds utterly demoralized and totally defeated. I hope Williams can deliver a decent set of updates soon so that he can actually race someone but form those comments RK's lost his mojo which is really sad to see.

 

Verstappen was spinning on the formation lap too, for the same reason. Funny, isn't it?

 

Do you imagine what would have happened if RK hadn't left the space and then "touched" with the Racing Point? I don't even want to think about your comments about him not being able to drive in the race conditions with other drivers. He knows the pace isn't there, why should he take unnecessary risk?

 

He didn't lost his mojo, neither after his rally accident nor now. 


Edited by ForeverInLoveWithF1, 14 April 2019 - 22:53.


#965 PayasYouRace

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 20:34

Well according to British media Kubica is doing worse and he is the next Merc driver so I don't understand your question ?


What “British media” is that then?

Russell’s future is well looked after and Kubica’s comeback is unlikely to last long, just because these comebacks tend not to, injury or not.

#966 AndyPerry

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 20:34

Paco argues that RK is struggling to get the tires into the operating window in the race conditons. But he somehow was able to make a one stop whereas GR wasn't.


And you think making his tires last shows he isn't struggling? I could make an equally plausible assumption, that he didn't extract enough performance out of them.

#967 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 20:53

And you think making his tires last shows he isn't struggling? I could make an equally plausible assumption, that he didn't extract enough performance out of them.

 

No, I don't think he isn't struggling at all. He does, just like others do depending on the track, wether, temperature etc. 



#968 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 21:05

.

Oh ffs, I remember when in Australia he lost his wing after going for it at the start people were criticising him for doing so, that he should know he cannot fight and should let it go.

 

Now he did just that and he lost his mojo.

 

Exactly! An example from this forum:

 

"While he is not guilty for contact with Gasly itself, it happened becasue Robert was where he had no real business to be in - getting along side Gasly on braking and turn-in. It was just wrong instinct, he had nothing to win and a lot to lose getting so close in T1/2."

 

:drunk:


Edited by ForeverInLoveWithF1, 14 April 2019 - 21:09.


#969 Paco

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 21:06

Except he's only metioned that THIS applies to this year's car only and that his race pace in FW41 and also Renault tests was very, very strong. So stop this stupid age comments already. If he's that old, how's he matching RUS times in qualy? Get over yourself for once.

 

Performing well in TESTING is nothing compared to performing well in a RACE.. vs. running your own program and lapping away without much interference and all the other traffic is easy and accomodating etc.   Come on, you must surely understanding performing at a test session and being able to lap consistently vs racing hard and getting the most out of your race while battling and dealing all sorts of slow and fast cars, moving out of the way, tonnes of rubber off the race line is EXCEPTIONALLY different and not knowing what other teams and drivers are doing with fuel loads etc..  So again, he's comparing himself to STROLL???  Like come on.. And comparing himself to a test session that went well with a car that even more unpredictable...

 

Look, good on the guy for being forth coming with the TRUTH.. vs all this cloak and dagger that has been going on with him since disappointment with limited test running.. :up: :up:  He is starting to see how much difference there is in testing vs. racing..... Ferrari are also head scratching a bit.. what happens in testing vs racing is hard to predict as are Mercedes.. there is no substitute for the actual thing in the modern era with having to keep the PU safe and Keeping the Power down as much as you can for as long as reasonable.. very different to what he experienced previously.  Time will tell if he can adjust to realities of "conservation racing" that is paramount in this current modern era of racing.  It's a very very different approach to the 90's, 00 and 10's..    The difference between Qualifying and Racing is enormous, almost like the late 90's of qualifying spec cars on whisper thin brakes etc. vs their full car redo overnight for the race that lead to parc fermme.  Today, it's in a different way of letting it go balls to the walls for 4 laps of insanity and then, a couple of powerful laps at the start and conservation mode for 90% of the race.


Edited by Paco, 14 April 2019 - 21:14.


#970 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 21:17

 Come on, you must surely understanding performing at a test session and being able to lap consistently vs racing hard and getting the most out of your race while battling and dealing all sorts of slow and fast cars, moving out of the way, tonnes of rubber off the race line is EXCEPTIONALLY different and not knowing what other teams and drivers are doing with fuel loads etc..

 

Do the Williams drivers really battling or race hard? They usually lap consistently at the end of the field making up for the lost pre season tests..


Edited by ForeverInLoveWithF1, 14 April 2019 - 21:18.


#971 Paco

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 21:22

I agree with the most of what you're posting but... don't you think that this stat can be misleading due to different strategy?  ;) Kubica is currently clearly slower in race pace. Clearly but marginally. I'm having a notion that he really struggles with lapping. He seems to lose much more time on that than Russell. Also today, the Brit avoided being lapped by Ricciardo train, by doing the pit stop, while Kubica had to let them through and lose some time. Plus the long pit stop and the difference shrinks to few seconds on race distance. I judge the race pace difference to be around 0,15 secs. The beginning of the race was really bad for the Pole. He was utterly slow then. Maybe he struggles more, when the car is heavy?

 

I agree that's its misleading and just mentioned it simply because the article highlighted it.  I did say earlier it's impossible to draw any meaningful conclusion on the two other then Russell has finished ahead all 3 times.  Very little more can be said with what they have at hand.

 

That said, it's very clear Kubica is perplexed how to go about addressing his cockpit feeling of the car and where to go to make it better..understandable to be honest.. these cars are miles apart different on how they go about being fast over a stint and race..  I always felt it was impossible for him.. not because he is a poor racer but the evolution of F1 has been so different and way more technical now vs just pounding the pavement (and dont get me wrong.. I much prefer the refueling days and lap after lap pushing the car vs conserving the car for fear of grid penalities).



#972 Paco

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 21:23

I did not only read the article. I have even heard Robert's post race interview in his native language. He was talking about his race pace in that car and not about himself being slow (not about not having the raw speed anymore). He said his race pace last year was strong and this year isn't anymore since he is driving that car. 

 

English is not his native language, maybe he didn't express his thoughts precisely enough, maybe Mr. Elizalde didn't understand him properly. I have experienced many times some discrepancies in the original interviews and it's translations for example on one big german web page.

 

As to his race pace, the analysis of his lap times from Australia and Bahrain don't prove he hasn't the race pace anymore. He is sometimes too critical to himself. Some time ago he said that he had to laugh when his race engineer told him his race pace was very good, because he thought he was slow.

 

He's be honest with himself.. he sees he is struggling in the grid penalities long life component fragile tire era with party mode engine.. thats fine... and EXPECTED.. to be honest.. it would be disappointing for F1 if he just waltzed and was the same as before considering everything..



#973 Paco

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 21:25

The only thing "funny" was RK trying to put heat in the tyres and spinning on the formation lap.

 

From his post race comments "I then had a good start and I went to the inside line but honestly, I didn’t want to risk anything. I was close to one of the Racing Point’s and I was on the inside and I didn’t know if he would tighten the line, so I left enough space and lost two places there. It is difficult to risk something when you know the pace will be what it will be." Those are not the words of a racing driver, he just sounds utterly demoralized and totally defeated. I hope Williams can deliver a decent set of updates soon so that he can actually race someone but form those comments RK's lost his mojo which is really sad to see.

 

Agreed.  I didn't want to bring that spin up as I felt it would have inflammatory around here :-)



#974 Paco

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 21:26

And you think making his tires last shows he isn't struggling? I could make an equally plausible assumption, that he didn't extract enough performance out of them.

 

Exactly.. great to see people coming and saying factual information..



#975 Paco

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 21:27

Some of the 10 fastest laps of Russel may come from his last stint on fresh qualifying tyres (and a light car). Kubica was on a 1 pit strategy, Russel had additional pit a few laps before the end of the race.

 

All racing betwen them is pratically meaningless other then Saturday qualifying if you ask me.  However, but facts are facts and Kubica is down 0-3..



#976 Paco

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 21:29

No, I don't think he isn't struggling at all. He does, just like others do depending on the track, wether, temperature etc. 

 

So you do not believe what the man explicitly states after his 3rd race of the year.. you can believe whatever you want but it is simply what he said.



#977 pdac

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 22:00

The only thing "funny" was RK trying to put heat in the tyres and spinning on the formation lap.

 

From his post race comments "I then had a good start and I went to the inside line but honestly, I didn’t want to risk anything. I was close to one of the Racing Point’s and I was on the inside and I didn’t know if he would tighten the line, so I left enough space and lost two places there. It is difficult to risk something when you know the pace will be what it will be." Those are not the words of a racing driver, he just sounds utterly demoralized and totally defeated. I hope Williams can deliver a decent set of updates soon so that he can actually race someone but form those comments RK's lost his mojo which is really sad to see.

 

I will have to start shouting this soon - neither he nor Russell are in racing cars. They cannot race. Until Williams comes out with a new car, they have no choice but to just drive around and try to avoid breaking the car.



#978 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 22:08

He is starting to see how much difference there is in testing vs. racing..... 

 

Do you really think he didn't know earlier there is a difference?


Edited by ForeverInLoveWithF1, 14 April 2019 - 22:34.


#979 RacingGreen

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 22:24

Hi pdac,

I'm not sure how you managed to reply to my post as I took it down because I thought on reflection it was a bit trollish and I'm not into that. Also while I have been singularly unimpressed by RK 's driving and press comments (or at least his comments reported in English media as I don't read Polish) I am also well aware that there bigger problems at Williams right now and replacing him with Jim Clark wouldn't solve anything. 


Edited by RacingGreen, 14 April 2019 - 22:24.


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#980 pdac

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 22:28

Hi pdac,

I'm not sure how you managed to reply to my post as I took it down because I thought on reflection it was a bit trollish and I'm not into that. Also while I have been singularly unimpressed by RK 's driving and press comments (or at least his comments reported in English media as I don't read Polish) I am also well aware that there bigger problems at Williams right now and replacing him with Jim Clark wouldn't solve anything. 

 

As you have taken your post down and I had quoted it, I've taken my reply down too.



#981 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 22:32

All racing betwen them is pratically meaningless other then Saturday qualifying if you ask me.  However, but facts are facts and Kubica is down 0-3..

 

RK is down 0-3 but the gap isn't big. Not bad for a driver who has been away from F1 for 8 years.



#982 GoldenEra

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 22:33

Well of course a Mercedes-contracted junior is going to test for Mercedes and Kubica will not, at an in-season test where you need to run someone who has driven no more than 2 grand prix races as the rules state.

"As part of F1 rules, all teams must run two days of in-season testing out of the total of four days with young drivers (who have competed in two F1 races or fewer)".

If you are going to post rubbish, please try and do research prior to posting it, RacingGreen.

Edited by GoldenEra, 14 April 2019 - 22:36.


#983 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 22:48

So you do not believe what the man explicitly states after his 3rd race of the year.. you can believe whatever you want but it is simply what he said.

 

I do believe what the man says and what I have heard him to say. Due to the fact that there is a slight discrepancy for me between what he was saying in his native language and what was written I prefer to believe what I have heard from him.


Edited by ForeverInLoveWithF1, 18 April 2019 - 19:32.


#984 Paco

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 23:00

Do you really think he didn't know earlier there is a difference?

 

YES.  There is a big difference today then when he last drove how to handle the power units and how to handle this generation of tires.. so yes.  It's one thing to lap around and be proud of yourself in test sessions and a whole different thing on Sunday..   yes he knows that but seems the gap and understanding is way more then even he expected.



#985 Paco

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 23:02

I do believe what the man says and what I have heard him to say. Because there is a slight discrepancy for me between what he was saying in his native language and what was written I prefer to believe what I have heard from him.

 

I"m multi lingual (and have family that is additional Ukranian and close to polish).. I get the subtle interlanguage aspect of speach but this isn't it.  Perhaps early frankness at the initial test session was open to debate if it was nuanced but this isn't that..



#986 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 23:08

YES.  There is a big difference today then when he last drove how to handle the power units and how to handle this generation of tires.. so yes.  It's one thing to lap around and be proud of yourself in test sessions and a whole different thing on Sunday..   yes he knows that but seems the gap and understanding is way more then even he expected.

 

The cars behave different even with the same set up and the team has the evidence for it.

It's the unpredictability of the car behaviour which is way more than even he expected, not the difference between the old and this generation of cars and tires.



#987 RacingGreen

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 02:18

Well of course a Mercedes-contracted junior is going to test for Mercedes and Kubica will not, at an in-season test where you need to run someone who has driven no more than 2 grand prix races as the rules state.

"As part of F1 rules, all teams must run two days of in-season testing out of the total of four days with young drivers (who have competed in two F1 races or fewer)".

If you are going to post rubbish, please try and do research prior to posting it, RacingGreen.

 

I am well aware of the young driver rules. I also realize that over the last couple of seasons Mercedes have had three young drivers on their books, George Russell, Pascal Wehrlein and Esteban Ocon. Of these Pascal (who isn't eligible anymore anyway) has left for Mahindra and FE, and Esteban (while the teams reserve driver) has also done too many races. Add to that the fact that Toto doesn't seen keen on signing any more young drivers at the moment because those they have/had can't find drives. That means George was the only one eligible from that list to do the test. They could of course test someone else but of the two obvious candidates from their HWA FE associated team Vandoore also isn't eligible anyway and the other is their reigning DTM champion the 38 years young Gary Paffett. Russell was always going to do one of the two days while still eligible and Toto will sort out someone else for the second test later in the season.

 

But the point - just in case you missed it - is that one is highly regarded by the best team in the business while the other isn't highly regarded by anyone anymore, except maybe one or two people on this forum. Sure he won one race a decade ago but also remember that both Heikki Kovalainen and Pastor Maldonardo have also won one GP since then. I can't see anyone trying to sign either of those two. Let's be brutally honest here Robert is basically at Williams because Renault tested him and realized he wasn't up to standard so didn't take him. Williams tested him and Sirotkin and then gave the job to Sirotkin. In fact nobody other than Williams would go near him, and the ONLY reason Williams do is because they badly need whatever money he can scrape up without Stroll and Russian dollars.


Edited by RacingGreen, 15 April 2019 - 02:19.


#988 Muppetmad

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 05:39

This discussion is going nowhere, so I'm inclined to leave you all to it. All I can say is that I hope Baku brings some more positive results all around.



#989 RacingGreen

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 06:14

This discussion is going nowhere, so I'm inclined to leave you all to it. All I can say is that I hope Baku brings some more positive results all around.

 

I'm actually hopeful about Baku, it is a bit of a one off circuit and maybe Williams can get a few positives there.



#990 Abbys

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 07:23

 

As ever, Williams brought up the rear, George Russell three-hundredths faster than Robert Kubica.

Russell described his lap as ‘very poor’ while Kubica’s car had been refitted with his original floor and wing. When they had swapped them over in Friday practice in an effort at tracing the anomaly between the two identically set up cars, Kubica had been faster of the pair – confirming the problem but not the root source.  

 

https://www.motorspo...and-prix-report

 

Robert received Russell's parts for Friday testing and that's why he was so happy with the race pace and handling of the car. I was sure they left it on his car, but it seems it was an one-off and his old parts were refitted. Hopefully they now realized that a simple change of parts will do the trick and get them ready for next race. However, Robert still confirmed that those parts didn't resolve all the problems with his car, but that at least would be a good start. It's not like they've changed the whole car so I really hope they can afford making the new ones for him.



#991 wingwalker

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 07:29

Interesting comments from Kubica; admits he has no race pace.

https://www.motorspo...lliams/4370698/

Perhaps this is just what happens when you’re away from the sport for 10yrs and come back significantly changed.

Hope he finds his speed again, but can’t help but feel the ending of this story is inevitable. That Kubica train seems a distant memory.


To me it sounds more like he is complaining about no grip (as in: the car is at fault) rather than admitting his own shortcomings. But actually RK and GS overall racepace in China wasn't that far apart, without RK's pitstop problems they would have clocked a very similar time



#992 Marklar

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 07:32

Paco argues that RK is struggling to get the tires into the operating window in the race conditons. But he somehow was able to make a one stop whereas GR wasn't.

Like half of the grid?

Dhat has bringing tyre into the operating window to do with running long on them?

#993 Abbys

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 08:17

Like half of the grid?

Dhat has bringing tyre into the operating window to do with running long on them?

 

5 drivers did one stop strategy.

 

Getting tyres in the right operating window has everything to do with running longer on them. Lower temperature = less grip, more sliding, more wheelspin = more wear.

 

If they're warm enough it allows you to use them better and push for longer without losing time. Maybe Kimi Raikkonnen is a good enough source for you: https://www.autospor...f-better-result

 

He couldn't get them to the right temp at the end of the stint and lost a lot of time.


Edited by Abbys, 15 April 2019 - 08:17.


#994 cravenciak

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 09:07

Hughes says Robert used Russell's floor and FW during FP1 and FP2, Williams switched it back again on saturday. Team pretty much confirmed Robert's observations, hopefully drivers will get new floors for Spain.

#995 Krr

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 09:13

Funny thing with all the discussion about Robert's words in Motorsport is that if he would pitted 2 laps ealier, and pit stop itself would not cost him around 15 sec, then he would end up in front of GR.

 

So what that tells us? Either that GR has no race pace as well or that Robert is very hard on himself. And for anyone who follows Kubica closely for years knows that he ALWAYS is that way. Not happy with himself no matter what.



#996 Abbys

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 09:35

Funny thing with all the discussion about Robert's words in Motorsport is that if he would pitted 2 laps ealier, and pit stop itself would not cost him around 15 sec, then he would end up in front of GR.

 

So what that tells us? Either that GR has no race pace as well or that Robert is very hard on himself. And for anyone who follows Kubica closely for years knows that he ALWAYS is that way. Not happy with himself no matter what.

 

Pretty much sums it up.

 

Robert is harsh on himself, as ever, nothing new. Some just read a little too much into it. It's understandable, there isn't many drivers who would say anything close to it. Most of them are just 'perfect' and it's everyone else's fault, e.g. Kvyat. I don't remember him taking the blame even once and he's back to being a Torpedo.

 

In terms of the strategy and pit stop then yeah, Robert would end up in front of George. Maybe George would then stay on one-stop strategy, but he was losing so much time by the end there that I don't think he would be able to go the end or would end up in 1:44 or something. So pretty much the same thing would happen regardless of George choice. Either way, they're still 1 minute behind their closest competitor in the race pace and that's just pure madness. Poor drivers.



#997 cromofo

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 10:21

Hughes says Robert used Russell's floor and FW during FP1 and FP2, Williams switched it back again on saturday. Team pretty much confirmed Robert's observations, hopefully drivers will get new floors for Spain.


Makes sense looking at the times Friday to Sunday. New parts can't come soon enough...

#998 tghik

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 10:48

Read that article link above and see if you still feel the same, maybe a garage swap but Williams definitely get it and doesn't sound like they are wrong in their approach of trugging on with what they have until a "new, better" option is ready for debut vs. distracting them in production of a new old stock item for no reason.

sorry Paco but you are trying as hard as you can to explain why Williams don't do it. Swapping the cars costs nothing and there is no distraction in production of a new old stock as you put it. The cars are prepared for the race weekend as usual, just giving them to different drivers is the easiest test you can do with 0$ attached to it. I'd like to ask once again why this test is a bad idea in your words ? Can you do it in simple words like in points, without writing a poem ?



#999 AndyPerry

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 11:01

sorry Paco but you are trying as hard as you can to explain why Williams don't do it. Swapping the cars costs nothing and there is no distraction in production of a new old stock as you put it. The cars are prepared for the race weekend as usual, just giving them to different drivers is the easiest test you can do with 0$ attached to it. I'd like to ask once again why this test is a bad idea in your words ? Can you do it in simple words like in points, without writing a poem ?

 

1. Beacuse

2. Williams F1

3. Doesn't

4. Think

5. It

6. Will

7. Prove

8. Anything.

 

If they did, they'd already do it.

 

Stop with the ridiculous car swap idea.



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#1000 MaGiK

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 11:09

Yeah....so why they swapped some parts between cars (presumably floow and wing) for friday? :rolleyes: