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Williams: Drivers, management and other folks at Grove 2019


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#1001 GiorgioF1

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 11:38

Autosport+: VERDICT: How can you judge a driver in a car that's not the equal of his team-mate's? It's difficult, but Kubica deserves credit for persevering with what is clearly an awkward, as well as slow, chassis that, as he suggested, can't do what Russell's can.



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#1002 wingwalker

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 12:03


 

In terms of the strategy and pit stop then yeah, Robert would end up in front of George. Maybe George would then stay on one-stop strategy, but he was losing so much time by the end there that I don't think he would be able to go the end or would end up in 1:44 or something. So pretty much the same thing would happen regardless of George choice. Either way, they're still 1 minute behind their closest competitor in the race pace and that's just pure madness. Poor drivers.


Yeah and that's with "We had clean, well-driven races from both drivers".



#1003 AndyPerry

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 13:16

Yeah....so why they swapped some parts between cars (presumably floow and wing) for friday? :rolleyes:

Make up your minds, guys. Did they swap or didn't they?

 

A floor and a wing does not a car make.



#1004 Abbys

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 13:27

Make up your minds, guys. Did they swap or didn't they?

 

A floor and a wing does not a car make.

 

I would assume that they're trying to rectify the problem, thus switching car parts. The car worked much better thanks to that, so at least they're getting some answers. If they just switched the cars they would only be able to see that Kubica drives faster, but the problems will remain unidentified. As long as they're at least learning what's causing the problems then I don't mind that they take the parts back to Russell. Sooner or later they will end up with same cars.

 

I guess it's just money, if it wasn't then Kubica would've a new car by now already, instead of this Barcelona test car. Fingers crossed that new floor and front wing or whatever else they switched will be ready for Baku. It's a street race, which Kubica used to enjoy the most (street races, not this particular one, he never started there), so it would be great to unleash some potential there. However with the current Williams situation I'm doubting that anything will change before Barcelona and there's still a big IF for Barcelona anyway. Most teams already talked about updates and stuff, Williams remains silent.


Edited by Abbys, 15 April 2019 - 13:31.


#1005 TomNokoe

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 13:33

The last thing Williams will want is to introduce a new chassis in Baku, and for one of them to go and bin it. I think it will be Spain.

#1006 Abbys

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 13:49

The last thing Williams will want is to introduce a new chassis in Baku, and for one of them to go and bin it. I think it will be Spain.

 

Chassis =/= new floor or the front wing, or both.



#1007 wingwalker

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 14:12

Unfortunately I think the fact that they haven't produced a new floor already does show they do struggle financially. What happens if one of the cars gets majorly damaged?



#1008 Paco

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 14:41

That's the only place they suggest the floor was swapped and the team never acknowledged it or Robert, who isnt one to not say as much.

 

So if that is the case (lonnnnnggg if), Williams have spare floor(s), everyone must ask themselves why didn't they set it to a spare and use a new one??????

 

Jacques says today they are a public entity so only look after shareholders (yes just him being being him) but that would at the very least mean Claire can't lie about the financial health of the company.  They started the year with a surplus of cash..

 

And yet, they can't manufacturer and fit a simple part that aleady had the mold manufacturer back in the latest FEB..

 

Maybe the team should use Shell Fruity Gas to makes things smell better after all those wrotten eggs fouled their shop..

 

I get not giving Russell the damaged one (if it is), since it's not his fault if Robert caused the damaged on a kurb, or wall scrub in Aus or something else.. but not giving the dude a cheap part like that when he brings them cash makes no sense.



#1009 Paco

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 14:47

Unfortunately I think the fact that they haven't produced a new floor already does show they do struggle financially. What happens if one of the cars gets majorly damaged?

 

Exactly, makes no sense..   They'd be forced to not compete leading to a huge huge Concorde Agreement issue... 

 

SO either a creditor is holding the assest and could be convinced to release stuff in a Force Major situation limiting their ability for payback if they don't release it or the team would fold for not meating their obligations of making races and qualifying.. 

 

or they have it and dont want to give it to him

 

or they praying for an updated part will be available before it breaks.. but that makes no sense its' not as if they can recycle the existing made and unused one as carbon fiber doesn't work that way for a cost saving.. 

 

If it breaks on a Sunday of a back to back to race weekend, they'd completely screwed if they in fact do not have a spare.. I don't they'd be able to turn it around in time for Sat..

 

Idiiots.. Jacques saying they are not a racing team anymore is pretty much accurate if any of this is ACTUALLY the case..

 

The must surely have a spare floor, 2 spare front and rear wings, a full spare engine cover and nose section aero and side pod covers... it's not much cash in relation to their budget to have it, and it's been months now to have done so even financial challenges.  Its the bare bones of going racing... it's been a long time since we have seen a team this tight on parts at this point in the season.. even FI last season was in a better position parts wise with a OWNER completely screwed by the courts and locked funds


Edited by Paco, 15 April 2019 - 14:51.


#1010 tghik

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 14:57

1. Beacuse

2. Williams F1

3. Doesn't

4. Think

5. It

6. Will

7. Prove

8. Anything.

 

If they did, they'd already do it.

 

Stop with the ridiculous car swap idea.

 

 

You are absolutely wrong, in the design world you swap prototypes on regular basis in order to make comparative measurements. If you don;'t you hit the wall in the same place over and over again without making any progress, especially when stuck on a problem. By swapping cars you eliminate driver as possible cause and you get feedback from both drivers, having a chance for them to see which part of the cars are affected. This not only could get you closer to the fundamental problem, not only solve one car's problem as there is a possibility both are affected but Kubica's car critically. Also because in F1 there is a limited number of test days, a swap would give you new set of feedback information, some extra data where there is never enough of, which in turn can be used by designers.

 

There is also a way of swapping parts, working in the other direction, from bottom instead of top- down, also valid. I would however start with the car swap because it gets you the bigger picture faster helping you make the cars faster on big scale. Bottom-up way may slow you down slightly, but as I said both methods are good.

 

It's obvious anti-Kub club are against the idea because the truth would be revealed. Keeping it as it is hands the advantage over to Russell, who is just barely keeping his head above water, now imagine Kubica in equal machinery ...



#1011 pdac

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 15:34

Williams are trying to understand the problems and fix them. They will almost certainly not have anything worth bothering with until Spain at the earliest. Forget it guys, you will just not be able to compare the two drivers until they have the problems sorted out.



#1012 Counterbalance

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 21:29

Williams are trying to understand the problems and fix them. They will almost certainly not have anything worth bothering with until Spain at the earliest. Forget it guys, you will just not be able to compare the two drivers until they have the problems sorted out.

 

 

I get the impressing in this thread that even if Williams do fix their issues, swap the chassis etc and Russell still outdrives Kubica there will be a whole host of reasons as to why Kubica is slower.

 

Please take this with no disrespect to Kubica, but coming from someone who has had eleven hours of spinal surgery (with lots of bits of titanium and bone grafts), three knee operations (the latest being last Thursday), with more to come, I can assure you that you will never recover fully or be 100% again. So whilst I have the upmost respect for Kubica's amazing fight and comeback, injuries slow you down, full stop.

 

PS: I hope you get my drift, cheers to you all!


Edited by Counterbalance, 15 April 2019 - 21:31.


#1013 Paco

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 00:23

I get the impressing in this thread that even if Williams do fix their issues, swap the chassis etc and Russell still outdrives Kubica there will be a whole host of reasons as to why Kubica is slower.

 

Please take this with no disrespect to Kubica, but coming from someone who has had eleven hours of spinal surgery (with lots of bits of titanium and bone grafts), three knee operations (the latest being last Thursday), with more to come, I can assure you that you will never recover fully or be 100% again. So whilst I have the upmost respect for Kubica's amazing fight and comeback, injuries slow you down, full stop.

 

PS: I hope you get my drift, cheers to you all!

 

Or perhaps F1 is so phyiscally easy now that you could :stoned:  is another way to look it :p



#1014 Counterbalance

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 04:33

Or perhaps F1 is so phyiscally easy now that you could :stoned: is another way to look it :p


Nah, I'm way too clumsy. I'd make the torpedo look like a shining example of precision driving!

#1015 AndyPerry

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 06:59

You are absolutely wrong, in the design world you swap prototypes on regular basis in order to make comparative measurements. If you don;'t you hit the wall in the same place over and over again without making any progress, especially when stuck on a problem. By swapping cars you eliminate driver as possible cause and you get feedback from both drivers, having a chance for them to see which part of the cars are affected. This not only could get you closer to the fundamental problem, not only solve one car's problem as there is a possibility both are affected but Kubica's car critically. Also because in F1 there is a limited number of test days, a swap would give you new set of feedback information, some extra data where there is never enough of, which in turn can be used by designers.

 

There is also a way of swapping parts, working in the other direction, from bottom instead of top- down, also valid. I would however start with the car swap because it gets you the bigger picture faster helping you make the cars faster on big scale. Bottom-up way may slow you down slightly, but as I said both methods are good.

 

It's obvious anti-Kub club are against the idea because the truth would be revealed. Keeping it as it is hands the advantage over to Russell, who is just barely keeping his head above water, now imagine Kubica in equal machinery ...

 

I would like to ask you to stop referring to me as part of anti-Kub club, when I have repeatedly stated that I have nothing against Kubica, in fact I wish him all the best.

 

It's this Polish contingent of grown men (with you in the leading group) who seem to live in delusion about the super human capabilities of Robert Kubica and can't seem to stop finding excuses for him (however wild they are), to save their lives, that is irritating as hell.

 

He got back to F1, you get to see him race every Sunday. Be happy about that. You guys were making wildly unrealistic predictions about what he was going to do, once he's back racing and I can't help rubbing it in your noses, now when it's obvious he isn't omnipotent and you were wrong.  It's not about him, it's about some of his adult fans, who cant accept reality (you, for instance).



#1016 MaGiK

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 07:02

I can assure you that you will never recover fully or be 100% again.

 

Obviouslly he will never be 100% fit but hes fit enough to drive F1 car :)

 

Or perhaps F1 is so phyiscally easy now that you could :stoned:  is another way to look it :p

 

Not exactly. F1 is very demanding physicly. Massive G- forces are demanding for you neck and overall stamina of your body.

But that doesnt mean it requires huge arm strenght. Those cars have very effective power steering.



#1017 taran

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 07:20

Obviouslly he will never be 100% fit but hes fit enough to drive F1 car :)

 

 

 

I think the question is if he is fit enough to drive a F1 car competitively.....?

Obviously, the mere fact that he can drive a F1 car is amazing IMO but can he squeeze out the final performance from a car with just one hand....?



#1018 MaGiK

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:08

I think the question is if he is fit enough to drive a F1 car competitively.....?

Obviously, the mere fact that he can drive a F1 car is amazing IMO but can he squeeze out the final performance from a car with just one hand....?

 

No...but hes not driving with just one hand...

Im pretty sure he is fit enough to drive very competitively.

I mean, in last 2 qualifying sessions he pretty much matched George Russell. A GP2 and F2 Champion. A guy who has beated Norris and Albon.

Hes a very tough benchmark IMO.



#1019 Paco

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 13:56

Obviouslly he will never be 100% fit but hes fit enough to drive F1 car :)

 

 

Not exactly. F1 is very demanding physicly. Massive G- forces are demanding for you neck and overall stamina of your body.

But that doesnt mean it requires huge arm strenght. Those cars have very effective power steering.

 

Yes.. but remember most of the race and FP they are not pulling full g's and are going very slowed in comparison to Qualy and the start of the race.  For most of the race, they are barely at 75%.. and sometimes even down to 50%..

 

Yes they pull g's no doubt, by it's mainly on their back and neck or horribly high during an accident.  I can not phathom how many Markus pull last year in that horrendous crash..



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#1020 tghik

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 15:45

It's this Polish contingent of grown men (with you in the leading group) who seem to live in delusion about the super human capabilities of Robert Kubica and can't seem to stop finding excuses for him (however wild they are), to save their lives, that is irritating as hell.

 

He got back to F1, you get to see him race every Sunday. Be happy about that. You guys were making wildly unrealistic predictions about what he was going to do, once he's back racing and I can't help rubbing it in your noses, now when it's obvious he isn't omnipotent and you were wrong.  It's not about him, it's about some of his adult fans, who cant accept reality (you, for instance).

 

I don't care if you're not anti-Kubica or any club member for that matter, honestly. All I know is your reality is not my reality. You ignore the reports stating that there is 8% aero balance difference between the cars and that Kubica and his fans r making excuses for being beaten by Russell. Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle. Or that one of us is wrong ... before the end of this season we'll know the truth. I've never said he's omnipotent or that he has super human capabilities (your exaggerations and big words are ridiculous), but I did say he is the better driver. IMO


Edited by tghik, 16 April 2019 - 16:04.


#1021 Laminar

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 17:37

Enough of the excuses. Its clear Williams are wasting their time with a 1 armed middle aged F1 driver.  They gave him a chance to set the the world of fire but he has been awful, so not  much point. Even if he improves he won't be anything special. They  need to replace him asap.



#1022 szym3k

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 17:57

Enough of the excuses. Its clear Williams are wasting their time with a 1 armed middle aged F1 driver.  They gave him a chance to set the the world of fire but he has been awful, so not  much point. Even if he improves he won't be anything special. They  need to replace him asap.

 

Yes, let's get Alonso in that seat so he set the world on fire. Or get beaten by George, cause his sixth tenths are probably not going to make up the car difference.  :rotfl:



#1023 NoForumForOldPole

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 18:10

I would like to ask you to stop referring to me as part of anti-Kub club, when I have repeatedly stated that I have nothing against Kubica, in fact I wish him all the best.

It's this Polish contingent of grown men (with you in the leading group) who seem to live in delusion about the super human capabilities of Robert Kubica and can't seem to stop finding excuses for him (however wild they are), to save their lives, that is irritating as hell.

He got back to F1, you get to see him race every Sunday. Be happy about that. You guys were making wildly unrealistic predictions about what he was going to do, once he's back racing and I can't help rubbing it in your noses, now when it's obvious he isn't omnipotent and you were wrong. It's not about him, it's about some of his adult fans, who cant accept reality (you, for instance).

Are you f... kidding me? What does this thread have to do with Polish adult man you xenophob?

Kubica has got fans everywhere or only support by contingent of Polish grown men? Woukd you call Hamiltons fans bunch of Black Adult men?

Shame you cant vote this forum to leave EU, so you dont have to read these Polish men comments.

Edited by NoForumForOldPole, 16 April 2019 - 18:15.


#1024 TomNokoe

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 18:10

Struggling to understand the negativity and almost tangible desire for Kubica to fail.

Would it really make you happy to come onto the forums and say "I told you so!".

Probably the same folk who didn't want to see Tiger win the Masters... Bizarre.

Even if you don't like Robert, or Claire, or Williams, or whoever... if Kubica succeeds it is a good thing, especially for the sport. I cannot understand why so many people are against this.

Edited by TomNokoe, 16 April 2019 - 18:10.


#1025 pdac

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 18:22

Struggling to understand the negativity and almost tangible desire for Kubica to fail.

Would it really make you happy to come onto the forums and say "I told you so!".

Probably the same folk who didn't want to see Tiger win the Masters... Bizarre.

Even if you don't like Robert, or Claire, or Williams, or whoever... if Kubica succeeds it is a good thing, especially for the sport. I cannot understand why so many people are against this.

 

Me too - I don't understand it either. But, on the other hand, I don't understand this theme about how Kubica is being disadvantaged so much that he would otherwise be destroying Russell.

 

The truth for me is that both drivers are being let down by the cars that they have but, I think, there are very very good reasons why they are not getting help from the team. It's a real shame for Robert, because it is very possible that this might be his one and only season in F1 and he's not had a chance to show what he may have. For George, too, it may be his only season, but I suspect his age may help him.



#1026 GoldenEra

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 18:29

Me too - I don't understand it either. But, on the other hand, I don't understand this theme about how Kubica is being disadvantaged so much that he would otherwise be destroying Russell.

The truth for me is that both drivers are being let down by the cars that they have but, I think, there are very very good reasons why they are not getting help from the team. It's a real shame for Robert, because it is very possible that this might be his one and only season in F1 and he's not had a chance to show what he may have. For George, too, it may be his only season, but I suspect his age may help him.


Russell's definitely locked down for 2 years at the very least. Which you'd expect, given the last Merc junior seat mess (Ocon).

"The 20-year-old has signed a "multi-year agreement" with the British team but will also maintain his link to Mercedes, for which Russell has been a test and reserve driver this season."

https://www.motorspo...season/3193714/

#1027 MNader

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 18:40

I am a Williams fan but rarely opened this thread, now i did and it is very surprising/funny.

 

do people here really think that dropping Kubica will improve their results?



#1028 TomNokoe

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 18:43

Me too - I don't understand it either. But, on the other hand, I don't understand this theme about how Kubica is being disadvantaged so much that he would otherwise be destroying Russell.


You are correct, none of it matters. We are three races in.

Let's wait for the good news and continue to wish both of them well. That is all. I know it's cliché but what is wrong with a bit of positivity!

#1029 tghik

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 19:01

I am a Williams fan but rarely opened this thread, now i did and it is very surprising/funny.

 

do people here really think that dropping Kubica will improve their results?

 

Williams team is in a privileged position with regard to the drivers. After bad results last year, dropping to the bottom of the table, securing in 2 above average talents must be counted as a miracle. There is no other top driver available except Alonso, for whom Williams is not at the level to get his attention.



#1030 pdac

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 19:06

Williams team is in a privileged position with regard to the drivers. After bad results last year, dropping to the bottom of the table, securing in 2 above average talents must be counted as a miracle. There is no other top driver available except Alonso, for whom Williams is not at the level to get his attention.

 

Well, yes and no. There are so few F1 seats available each year that a lot of good drivers are going to take whatever they can get.



#1031 MNader

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 20:11

Well, yes and no. There are so few F1 seats available each year that a lot of good drivers are going to take whatever they can get.

 

yeah but then you end up with unproven qualities, while i do agree that both Robert and Russels are also unproven at the moment I doubt they are a couple of seconds slower than Stroll. For me now Williams should just get this car ready and sort their stuff out, till then discussing drivers makes no sense. If a part on one of the cars is broken i don't think they can even replace it now, so god knows what each car looks like.



#1032 Laminar

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 21:47

Yes, let's get Alonso in that seat so he set the world on fire. Or get beaten by George, cause his sixth tenths are probably not going to make up the car difference.  :rotfl:

 

whats this got to do with Alonso? :lol:



#1033 pdac

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 22:28

yeah but then you end up with unproven qualities, while i do agree that both Robert and Russels are also unproven at the moment I doubt they are a couple of seconds slower than Stroll. For me now Williams should just get this car ready and sort their stuff out, till then discussing drivers makes no sense. If a part on one of the cars is broken i don't think they can even replace it now, so god knows what each car looks like.

 

I'm sure that is what they are doing. The problem, of course, is if it takes beyond this season to sort out. But, really, there is no point in sorting little bits of it out - just a waste of money and resources.



#1034 Baddoer

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 05:21

This is painful to watch. How on earth once regarded team can let their driver out on track with a broken car third race in a row. Disgusting.


Edited by Baddoer, 17 April 2019 - 05:21.


#1035 statman

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 08:11

Kubica has no pace, and is baffled by Russell

 

"As I said, it's not only the car. There are different factors, but that's how it is."

 

Ya think?!?! F1 is still a performance sport, even with all the money he brings.



#1036 absinthedude

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 08:15

By the gods, and for the lat time....Kubica is not driving with one hand. He's clearly got issues with race pace - which is odd because during testing his long distance pace was great in both the Renault and the Williams. So its not simply that RK cannot drive a race distance at competitive pace. Something else is happening.

 

And does anyone actually think at this juncture that Williams would get better results with anyone else in the car? Lewis Hamilton himself wouldn't be able to get that thing into Q2. 



#1037 taran

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 08:50

I am a Williams fan but rarely opened this thread, now i did and it is very surprising/funny.

 

do people here really think that dropping Kubica will improve their results?

 

 

Well, in motorsport the fastest and easiest way to improve performance is to put in a faster driver as seen when Kvyat was swapped for Verstappen. Obviously Williams has produced a slow car this year and that isn’t the driver’s fault and even Hamilton wouldn’t push this thing much further up the grid.

 

But Kubica is not as fast as we all expected him to be and thus is not pushing Russell as only two matched drivers can so I expect a bit of performance is still on the table.

 

 

 



#1038 Murl

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 08:51

Struggling to understand the negativity and almost tangible desire for Kubica to fail.

Would it really make you happy to come onto the forums and say "I told you so!".

Probably the same folk who didn't want to see Tiger win the Masters... Bizarre.

Even if you don't like Robert, or Claire, or Williams, or whoever... if Kubica succeeds it is a good thing, especially for the sport. I cannot understand why so many people are against this.

 

 

It's probably ageism.

 

There seems to be a few currents of driver x is too old now, has occupied seats that other younger drivers "deserve".

Kimi is a good example, but I've seen people talking about Hamilton and Vettel in a resentful manner as well.

 

I find it exciting watching the rise of young talent. That has to be balanced against the need for those young emerging drivers to prove themselves against battle hardened experience. If they can't do it, tough.

 

What does this have to do with Kubica?

For whatever reason he has managed to beat some person's favoured young up and comer to a seat.

They don't want to watch him succeed or fail. They just want him to go away so their own favourite can take their "rightful place".

 

Truth is, it is a dog eat dog world in F1 and their dog has been a meal for Kubica, the old guy with no prospects (lol).

 

It's tough for the haters. They have no option but to whine about it. And they will, all year long.

If I was one of the young drivers displaced by Kubica I'd hate to think these people are "supporting" me in such a negative way.



#1039 pdac

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 08:52

By the gods, and for the lat time....Kubica is not driving with one hand. He's clearly got issues with race pace - which is odd because during testing his long distance pace was great in both the Renault and the Williams. So its not simply that RK cannot drive a race distance at competitive pace. Something else is happening.

 

And does anyone actually think at this juncture that Williams would get better results with anyone else in the car? Lewis Hamilton himself wouldn't be able to get that thing into Q2. 

 

Crap car, perhaps? (and, no, they would not get better results with anyone else in the car - it's a crap car and nothing any driver can bring will make a difference).

 

(it's sad for all those fanboys who want to prove that superman Kubica is clearly much better than the likes of Russell or those that want to prove that Kubica is past it and cannot perform because he's an old one-handed cripple)


Edited by pdac, 17 April 2019 - 08:55.


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#1040 Abbys

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 09:40

czasy-Russell-Kubica.jpg

 

Lap times comparison between the drivers on both stints.

 

I'm not sure if everyone here actually watches the races or just reads articles on Autosport frontpage coz they can't afford to pay for watching F1 on cable or F1 TV online. While Kubica was on avarage 0.5 slower on the medium, he was also 0.5s on average quicker on the hard tyre, and this difference would be even bigger if he didn't have to keep slowing down coz of the blue flags.

 

At some point you've to accept that he's very harsh on himself, more than you could probably imagine and stop reading between the lines. While he's really, really sad about the race pace, he still managed to be faster than his team mate on the hard tyre and make them go to the end of the race. If it wasn't for the damn pit stop (11s difference on the outlap, see above Lap 27 compared to Russell's Lap 23) he would NOT have to slow down during the last three laps as you can see above to let the others go past him (another 5s lost). He managed his tyres really well, you can see he still could push hard on lap 50, just as fast as on lap 30 before he had to slow down for laps 51-54 to let others by. He would've ended up in front of George. Regardless of that, he would still say that his race pace felt **** and the main factor here's the car, not him.

 

Just look at the facts for once instead of talking trash about the drivers.


Edited by Abbys, 17 April 2019 - 09:41.


#1041 tghik

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 09:50

 

(it's sad for all those fanboys who want to prove that superman Kubica is clearly much better than the likes of Russell or those that want to prove that Kubica is past it and cannot perform because he's an old one-handed cripple)

 

I'm asking how on earth some ppl come up with "superman Kubica" or "clearly much better" statements. It was never "superman" nor "clearly much" when it's a question of a couple of tens of a second? :stoned: At this moment I have not seen Kubica''s fans trying to prove Kubica is superman, but rather to prove there is something wrong with his car.


Edited by tghik, 17 April 2019 - 09:59.


#1042 thuGG

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 10:58

@Abbys

Please go away with your arguments, logic is not welcome here.

You should do only drive by posts, something along the line "haha Kubica is slow, lol". Like statman does, he's a real contributor to the thread.


Edited by thuGG, 17 April 2019 - 10:58.


#1043 ElectricBoogie

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 11:27

Kubica has no pace, and is baffled by Russell

 

"As I said, it's not only the car. There are different factors, but that's how it is."

 

Ya think?!?! F1 is still a performance sport, even with all the money he brings.

Fascinating...
What comes to mind is that the setup he requires to compensate for the proven lower downforce his chassis is able to generate, doesn't work for race pace in terms of staying within the window, generating traction. Perhaps somewhat similar factors that Gasly is struggling with, a different throttle mapping might be called for?

Please let them figure out updates to try and get Kubica a fresh chassis eventually.
I think it is indeed hopeful he can get close to Russell now on one-lap pace despite the mysterious downforce deficit.



#1044 pdac

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 11:56

I'm asking how on earth some ppl come up with "superman Kubica" or "clearly much better" statements. It was never "superman" nor "clearly much" when it's a question of a couple of tens of a second? :stoned: At this moment I have not seen Kubica''s fans trying to prove Kubica is superman, but rather to prove there is something wrong with his car.

 

There is something wrong with both cars. We already know, specifically, that there is something very wrong with Kubicas car. We all know this. Everyone knows this. There have been many posts here that have linked to comments from both drivers to attest to that.

 

It's pretty much a given that Kubica could be faster if his car was up to scratch (Russell too). But what some are trying to do is prove that he is/would be faster that Russell (and, to be fair, some are trying to prove that Russell is faster than Kubica). That is just complete idiocy while neither have a car that is any good. Yet it goes on and on and on.



#1045 cromofo

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 12:21

Proving that any driver is faster than the other at this stage is pointless and a waste of time. 



#1046 GiorgioF1

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 12:22

Mazepin ready to take over the team

 

https://translate.go...lvarla/4372359/



#1047 taran

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 13:20

Proving that any driver is faster than the other at this stage is pointless and a waste of time. 

 

 

I understand your sentiment but your opinion shows a complete lack of knowledge of F1.

Yes, the car is slow. Perhaps Kubica’s car is flawed. They are only racing each other, the other teams are well out of reach.

 

But that doesn’t change the fact that both drivers need to show their ability and they can only do that by beating each other. The loser of this team battle will likely be out of F1 next year. So they both know what’s at stake.

 

This is not a new situation. It has happened countless times in countless teams. And the driver who least impressed in the hopeless car would inevitably see their career plummet or end. While the better performing driver could hope for better things.

 

I literally mentioned Tom Walkinshaw, owner of Arrows in 1997, lambasting the reigning world champion Damon Hill (!!!) for not being ahead of his teammate Pedro Diniz because he was fiddling too much with setups etc. and people still think that being beaten by your team mate is not an issue.

 

It is and it always will be. Which is why Russell is so glad that he is beating Kubica. It’s all he can do. He at least knows that if he beats Kubica comprehensively, he will continue to be seen as a promising driver. And if Kubica beats him, his reputation will take a significant hit.

 

As for Kubica, IMO he was hired as an experienced team leader with funding while Russell was expected to learn F1 while showing potential, just as Norris is doing. Instead, Russell is showing Kubica the way…that needs to change fast or Kubica will fast become the team’s designated #2 driver and then slowly slip towards a “Boutsen@Williams1990” role, e.g. an unwanted driver seeing out his contract.   

 

 



#1048 Tsarwash

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 13:28

 

 

 

I'm not sure if everyone here actually watches the races or just reads articles on Autosport frontpage coz they can't afford to pay for watching F1 on cable or F1 TV online. While Kubica was on avarage 0.5 slower on the medium, he was also 0.5s on average quicker on the hard tyre, and this difference would be even bigger if he didn't have to keep slowing down coz of the blue flags.

 

Why would the blue flags only apply to Kubica and not Russell ? Russell would have had to slow down for almost as many blue flags as Kubica.



#1049 szym3k

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 13:28

I understand your sentiment but your opinion shows a complete lack of knowledge of F1.

Yes, the car is slow. Perhaps Kubica’s car is flawed. They are only racing each other, the other teams are well out of reach.

 

But that doesn’t change the fact that both drivers need to show their ability and they can only do that by beating each other. The loser of this team battle will likely be out of F1 next year. So they both know what’s at stake.

 

This is not a new situation. It has happened countless times in countless teams. And the driver who least impressed in the hopeless car would inevitably see their career plummet or end. While the better performing driver could hope for better things.

 

I literally mentioned Tom Walkinshaw, owner of Arrows in 1997, lambasting the reigning world champion Damon Hill (!!!) for not being ahead of his teammate Pedro Diniz because he was fiddling too much with setups etc. and people still think that being beaten by your team mate is not an issue.

 

It is and it always will be. Which is why Russell is so glad that he is beating Kubica. It’s all he can do. He at least knows that if he beats Kubica comprehensively, he will continue to be seen as a promising driver. And if Kubica beats him, his reputation will take a significant hit.

 

As for Kubica, IMO he was hired as an experienced team leader with funding while Russell was expected to learn F1 while showing potential, just as Norris is doing. Instead, Russell is showing Kubica the way…that needs to change fast or Kubica will fast become the team’s designated #2 driver and then slowly slip towards a “Boutsen@Williams1990” role, e.g. an unwanted driver seeing out his contract.   

 

Your points would be valid if Kubica was fiddling with setups. He has an inferior car, which has been established many times. It's frustrating to watch a once great team not be able to provide the drivers with an equal opportunity. Can you imagine the furore if Leclerc was getting similar treatment at Ferrari by way of car and not team orders? 

 

Robert is not stupid. He also knows that he needs to beat Russell. At the moment he is not being given the tools to do so and why I think his frustration is starting to show. 


Edited by szym3k, 17 April 2019 - 13:29.


#1050 pdac

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 14:12

I understand your sentiment but your opinion shows a complete lack of knowledge of F1.

Yes, the car is slow. Perhaps Kubica’s car is flawed. They are only racing each other, the other teams are well out of reach.

 

But that doesn’t change the fact that both drivers need to show their ability and they can only do that by beating each other. The loser of this team battle will likely be out of F1 next year. So they both know what’s at stake.

 

This is not a new situation. It has happened countless times in countless teams. And the driver who least impressed in the hopeless car would inevitably see their career plummet or end. While the better performing driver could hope for better things.

 

I literally mentioned Tom Walkinshaw, owner of Arrows in 1997, lambasting the reigning world champion Damon Hill (!!!) for not being ahead of his teammate Pedro Diniz because he was fiddling too much with setups etc. and people still think that being beaten by your team mate is not an issue.

 

It is and it always will be. Which is why Russell is so glad that he is beating Kubica. It’s all he can do. He at least knows that if he beats Kubica comprehensively, he will continue to be seen as a promising driver. And if Kubica beats him, his reputation will take a significant hit.

 

As for Kubica, IMO he was hired as an experienced team leader with funding while Russell was expected to learn F1 while showing potential, just as Norris is doing. Instead, Russell is showing Kubica the way…that needs to change fast or Kubica will fast become the team’s designated #2 driver and then slowly slip towards a “Boutsen@Williams1990” role, e.g. an unwanted driver seeing out his contract.   

 

I totally disagree. Williams have signed both drivers and they know that it is their car that is to blame for poor performances. If they get rid of one of them at the end of this season, I do not believe it will have anything to do with their performance on the track. In fact I'll go further. I would say Williams do not want their drivers trying to beat each other - right now they want their drivers to help them find out what is wrong with the car and to not waste money by breaking bits that they do not want to remanufacture.