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Williams: Drivers, management and other folks at Grove 2019


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#1151 Tsarwash

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 16:52

 

Drivers:

To be very blunt about this, drivers are always available. Most drivers who are eligible to drive in F1 want a seat in an F1 car - any F1 car. Drivers can always be found. If you have a good car right now, then the better drivers will be attracted to you on the assumption that you will have a good car next year too. If this years car is no good, then the better drivers will only be more attracted to you if you can convince them that you have more to offer next year.

 

Assuming that Kubica still has the required ability, (which I think most of us are hoping for), then I feel that he is important to keep. Because of his unique comeback story other sponsors might be tempted to stay or become associated with the team, in the knowledge that his second career will be focussed on for a time to come. (Canon are still getting brand exposure from the remarkable success that Williams had in the late 80's). Of course this may be moot, as there may simply be not other options available to Kubica in the next few years. Williams need to dig deep to extract themselves out of this hole, and additional sponsorship money never hurts. 



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#1152 Tsarwash

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 16:54

They tried that this year and didn't much for them now did it...  at least McLaren worked hard last year to make a mends and fix some of their issues not giving up on their car..

 

Why do you think that switching to Honda or Renault would make any positive difference ? 



#1153 Paco

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 16:57

That will be team suicide if they give up on the Merc. I rather have them pick the rear assembly with gearbox from Mercedes instead of trying to figure it out themselves and get it wrong. They could focus a lot more on their aero problems then.

 

Suicide is continuing down the same path they have been going down and getting worse.  Not in any way saying it's the PU unit for their plight.. perhaps their integration of the AMG unit but... they need a fresh start.  I'd like to see them with the Honda or Renault and have the potential success they had in the past with them.. plus, if Renault ever give up the race team and keep just a PU department, could lead to a works engine again if Williams figure out their chassis.

 

Even if costs then 0.3-0.5s a lap going with a lesser PU.. maybe somethings clicks with a new unit.

 

We all know Williams will not take on a Mercedes rear end etc.. (although I feel they should until 2021 reset).. they've stuck to designing their own Gearbox due to Patricks long 20 history if designing and insisting they keep their own.. so getting them to even consider the rear or front ends.. I just can't see that happening even though it's the right thing for them taking on a year old rear structure like TR does..  it sounds as even RP is trying not to go that route as well so..



#1154 Paco

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 17:02

How do you energize your design department downgrading PU's?

 

A new challenge, perhaps a different PU integration... something different that breaks their current mold of working in and potential beliefs that are not working out..  the AMG teams of RP and Williams are not exactly lighting up the timesheets (all probably cause of financial reasons)..  Mercedes works is probably flattering the PU not unlike RB did with Renault..

 

I know if I was their CEO or COO... i'd be looking for an all out solution and reinvigorating the team and nailing a Honda would be a best case scenario as I do not think Honda would upset  taking on a Williams as they are obligated to take 3 teams and would think that would be a feather in their cap brandiing wise.. especially should Williams get better.  Plus, NOW is the time to do it.. as they are without a Technical head, still time to plan out next years car and things couldn't get any worse.  a new engine sponsor could be exactly what kicks the program into a new gear..  I'd be working out all out on getting the Honda in the back of the car.  They can afford as RB can to take some grid drops for a chance at 3 good races.. vs 20 bad ones.. 


Edited by Paco, 25 April 2019 - 17:07.


#1155 Nathan

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 17:10

If Williams need a fresh start it should come from management.  Thats the source of Williams plight.  Taking away a performance advantage is plain silly.  If your engineers need to take two steps back to move forward get new engineers.  Or change the culture...

 

The fact Williams has brought in Patrick is a sign IMO they are clued out and the end is near.



#1156 tghik

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 17:34

Suicide is continuing down the same path they have been going down and getting worse. Not in any way saying it's the PU unit for their plight.. perhaps their integration of the AMG unit but... they need a fresh start.  I'd like to see them with the Honda or Renault

Your suggestion to ditch Merc for some other supplier is to say politely crazy as hell. You don't change what is your strongest functional point for something else which is worse, untested and completely new to the team requiring fresh learning curve and new designs to accommodate, just for the sake of doing "A" change and expecting that "maybe" some good will come out of it.

If one of my designers did this, I'd be looking to fire him, or if I could not, he'd be busy doing the simplest tasks for a long time until maybe some sign of logic from him appears.


Edited by tghik, 25 April 2019 - 17:40.


#1157 Paco

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 17:50

If Williams need a fresh start it should come from management.  Thats the source of Williams plight.  Taking away a performance advantage is plain silly.  If your engineers need to take two steps back to move forward get new engineers.  Or change the culture...

 

The fact Williams has brought in Patrick is a sign IMO they are clued out and the end is near.

 

I for one do not see it as end is near...if Claire's comments about financial stablity and a positive turnover is factual, and has to be close if they do infact have a public disclosure element that needs to be lawful. 

 

I also can not believe they forgot how to "manufacturer" the basics and are probably well ahead of most so 80% of the team is fine. 

 

I do feel they are missing trick suspension elements that are almost all outsourced parts and potential some trick aero tunneling to balance out aero loads under braking and acceleration..

 

I do feel there is some element of PU integration stagnation that is holding back their balance, aero etc..  they've king got into a rut folliwng the tired and true of the AMG unit... the few HP down Honda may be wouldn't effect their performance the past 18months but perhaps a new way of working with the engine provider would break them of their approach.

 

I wonder why RoryB hasn't been offered a huge salary to fix this mess.. Probably the best designer on the sidelines.. I'd even take MikeG at this point..if Paddy is truly sidelined permanently..


Edited by Paco, 25 April 2019 - 17:51.


#1158 Paco

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 17:55

Your suggestion to ditch Merc for some other supplier is to say politely crazy as hell. You don't change what is your strongest functional point for something else which is worse, untested and completely new to the team requiring fresh learning curve and new designs to accommodate, just for the sake of doing "A" change and expecting that "maybe" some good will come out of it.

If one of my designers did this, I'd be looking to fire him, or if I could not, he'd be busy doing the simplest tasks for a long time until maybe some sign of logic from him appears.

 

Muhahahahaha muhahahahahhahahahahaah (evil laugh inserted) but sometimes going down a path of futility requires a big change.. they've had turn over of Technical Leaders and resulted in the same or worse outcomes..   they've had others come in and try and do things different in the AMG era but its just not working out.  So why would anything change moving forward keeping the key components of Williams car the same.. I see it as madness not to try and do something different and fresh.

 

COME ON.. Kubica makes it seem like they can't even figure out why his car drives weirdly.. after 3 races and 2 test periods.. really.. that is just pure insantity and frankly, UNCOMPREHENDABLE  :stoned:


Edited by Paco, 25 April 2019 - 18:14.


#1159 Tsarwash

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 17:55

 

I wonder why RoryB hasn't been offered a huge salary to fix this mess.. Probably the best designer on the sidelines.. I'd even take MikeG at this point..if Paddy is truly sidelined permanently..

Rory Byrne is seventy five years old, two years older than Patrick Head. He retired from 'active' duty in F1 ten years ago. 



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#1160 Paco

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 17:57

Newey is still going strong.. age only effects drivers IMO and also, he's had a constantly consulting role with Ferrari (until recently I believe) so he's still in the know regarding the turbo era and FRIC cars etc.. 

 

Who's better that's a proven winner??  Id find it hard to promote within as  there isn't proof anyone capable, otherwise why didn't they speak up and make a case for certain underperforming design elements that lead to this failure.. if they had made a strong case.. Paddy would have listened, he never seemed bullhead and stubborn type leader.


Edited by Paco, 25 April 2019 - 18:01.


#1161 taran

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 18:01

A new challenge, perhaps a different PU integration... something different that breaks their current mold of working in and potential beliefs that are not working out..  the AMG teams of RP and Williams are not exactly lighting up the timesheets (all probably cause of financial reasons)..  Mercedes works is probably flattering the PU not unlike RB did with Renault..

 

I know if I was their CEO or COO... i'd be looking for an all out solution and reinvigorating the team and nailing a Honda would be a best case scenario as I do not think Honda would upset  taking on a Williams as they are obligated to take 3 teams and would think that would be a feather in their cap brandiing wise.. especially should Williams get better.  Plus, NOW is the time to do it.. as they are without a Technical head, still time to plan out next years car and things couldn't get any worse.  a new engine sponsor could be exactly what kicks the program into a new gear..  I'd be working out all out on getting the Honda in the back of the car.  They can afford as RB can to take some grid drops for a chance at 3 good races.. vs 20 bad ones.. 

 

I get what you are trying to say. Williams needs a reboot. But ditching Mercedes?

Unless there is a reason to believe a Mercedes PU is holding them back, I don't think that would be a good solution.

Williams is not McLaren in the sense that they don't know how far back they have fallen.

 

And Honda? You do remember that Williams and Honda didn't part on good terms, right? And that the Japanese have very long memories....

Even if Williams made a pitch for Honda engines, what is in it for Honda?

They are still likely to be at the back of the grid, thereby damaging the Honda brand...

They don't have the resources to help Honda further up the grid, unlike Red Bull.

About the only positive thing is that Red Bull wouldn't consider Williams a rival and block it....



#1162 Tsarwash

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 18:04

Adrain Newey is fifteen years younger. I don't think that Patrick Head would have returned to Willaims in his current role if he wasn't a founder of the team, and also doesn't he still have a financial stake in Williams ? 



#1163 Paco

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 18:06

I get what you are trying to say. Williams needs a reboot. But ditching Mercedes?

Unless there is a reason to believe a Mercedes PU is holding them back, I don't think that would be a good solution.

Williams is not McLaren in the sense that they don't know how far back they have fallen.

 

And Honda? You do remember that Williams and Honda didn't part on good terms, right? And that the Japanese have very long memories....

Even if Williams made a pitch for Honda engines, what is in it for Honda?

They are still likely to be at the back of the grid, thereby damaging the Honda brand...

They don't have the resources to help Honda further up the grid, unlike Red Bull.

About the only positive thing is that Red Bull wouldn't consider Williams a rival and block it....

 

I'm not entirely sure Honda wouldn't be obligated.. as they must supply up to 3.. so should AMG drop Williams.. they could need too

 

*yeah.. Japanese culture does hold long memories but they also very proud and work stupidly hard.. if they pull Williams out of the back of the grid that could be seen proudly by them as well..

 

I just see it pretty plainly.. the current partnership isn't providing Williams without anything useful other then a good engine which Williams doesn't seem to get into the car well.. I can hardly see anything negative about a swap.   RB certainly are a couple of tenths off but that isn't unsual for them at the start of season so they've shown swapping isn't exactly detrimental to overall speed..so Williams could swap a PU package and still be the same or better with a new approach.



#1164 Paco

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 18:10

Adrain Newey is fifteen years younger. I don't think that Patrick Head would have returned to Willaims in his current role if he wasn't a founder of the team, and also doesn't he still have a financial stake in Williams ? 

 

His financial stake is really only worth something if they SELL.. the modest turnover of profit split between shareholders if they do not carry it over is modest at best.  They've always thrown everything into the F1 program.  The share positioning is more on voting rights and team direction influence IMO. 

 

If was truly concerned about  share value, he'd tank the team further and sell it for a huge return and that is just not in Frank, Claire or Patricks mindset..  They've made their modest millions and are set for the rest of their lives.. it's about perserving Frank and Patrick legacy at this point in time  AND RACING.. even more WINS.


Edited by Paco, 25 April 2019 - 18:11.


#1165 SenorSjon

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 19:57

Keep Russell and Mercedes, ditch the rest. ;)
I really doubt your sanity if you want to ditch the only functioning part of the car.

Even abandoning this season just like last year will cost them more and more sponsors. Who wants to pay for next years car?

Edited by SenorSjon, 25 April 2019 - 19:57.


#1166 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 20:04

You do get that was over 10 years ago, prior to a massive injury and a VERY VERY different era of car and especially tire characteristics.  He''s clearly said (very much like Gasly) that he has trouble getting the power down out of corners (the cars just pull away from him).. so just accept what the man says from the horses mouth.    He also is confused about how keep the tires workable over a race distance.. accept him for his word.  They are things very foreign to him from his previous experience.. add age to that .. and it's a tall ask of him.. was always going to be and its fine .. especially in the car he is in becasue he isn't the reason they are not 10 places up the grid fighting for 1 point.. this isn't a Mclaren Alonso Vandoorne issue  where 1 driver is costing them points.. he's lucky to have not been in a better ride and being exposed.

 

In China GR wasn't able to do a one stop strategy. He had to do an additional stop a few laps before the end of the race.

RK was able to do the one stop strategy so it's not that bad with his ability to keep the tires workable over a race distance, is it?



#1167 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 20:16

 

It's a pity that Kubica apologist take up so much space in the thread, when the fate of one of F1's greatest teams is at stake .

 

 

You can take much more space in the thread writing about the team, can't you?



#1168 Paco

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 20:20

In China GR wasn't able to do a one stop strategy. He had to do an additional stop a few laps before the end of the race.

RK was able to do the one stop strategy so it's not that bad with his ability to keep the tires workable over a race distance, is it?

 

My comment had nothing to do with a specific race or specific set of tires or gap to teammate etc., he said it directly that he is struggling in the race to keep the tires working vs. doing well in qualifying in getting to work for 1 lap.  He said that he has touble out of a corner, he has trouble keeping the tires working for a long stint but not short one.. very much like Gasly, Gio etc.  

 

https://wtf1.com/pos...-pace-in-china/

 

“I have no race pace against my teammate. And when you see exiting corners you are wheel-spinning and losing the car and he’s pulling away… I’m not saying it’s the car, but there’s something we have to understand. I have very poor traction and actually, after the debrief, George said the traction was not so bad. It’s not only the car. There are different factors, but that’s how it is.”


 

“For whatever reason, since I drove the new generation cars I had to work on my single-lap pace, but on the long runs I was always very good. Since I drove this car - my first long run was in Australia - but the pace is nowhere and the feeling is much worse than I ever had on long runs. I have no grip.

I managed to do something in qualifying because the grip delivered by the tyres is much higher, but I cannot do the things that the guys in front are doing, or even George, so it’s very strange. I really tried everything but when you have no grip, there’s no magic in the sport.”

 

Sorry, not guessing or drawing conclusions, it's fact right from the guys mouth and it's been evident in the 3 races as well.  That said, he isn't the only one, HAAS is struggling, Gasly hugely as is Gio but at least Gio has had a lot of runs interupted so hes had a tough go reliablity wise in race weekends.  There are more quotes by him as well indicating his feeling in the car and it's just more of the same and frankly I'm not going to copy and find them because Frankly, I'm more interested in Williams then any of it's drivers and neither driver is the reason for them being where they are right now (maybe Stroll and Siro but that ship has sailed now thankfully).


Edited by Paco, 25 April 2019 - 20:36.


#1169 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 20:28

I have to say, i found it really nice that kubica got a seat at williams after his long hard fight... but, he is starting to annoy with his constant negativity and interviews, just drive kubica

 

I don't think everybody has to read his interviews. There is enough F1 stuff to choose from.



#1170 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 20:55

I remember Kubica being good in his day. Not world champion material, but certainly in the upper tier of drivers. Before his accident, he likely had more podiums and race victories ahead of him.

 

In Formula One years, all that was a long time ago. I understand that he has brought money into Williams. I can't really see what else he brings.

 

He is a man in his mid-30s, bearing the legacy of a serious injury. There is often something to be said for an older driver taking a seat at an under-performing team and using their experience to guide development. However, Kubica has been away from the front-line of the sport for years. His direct experience of current-era F1 is spotty and minimal. He has never struck me as one of those drivers who have the force of personality to take the reins in a team. In any case, Williams seem to be in such disarray, it is questionable whether the drivers can do anything other than make sure that the bolts holding their cars together aren't painted-on.   

 

 

He was leading the championship in the third best car in 2008 and was in the championship contention almost to the end of the season despite his team's early switch to the 2009 car. If this isn't world champion material then I don't know what else is.

 

Eric Boullier in his interviews from 2010 ( and even from 2011) has revealed that RK was a great leader with a strong personality and ability to lead the direction of the car development. After Kubica's accident in 2011 Boullier was searching for a proper replacement in that regard and a lot of people were wondering why he expected from poor Nick Heidfeld "a leadership" in the team.



#1171 tghik

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 21:09

Muhahahahaha muhahahahahhahahahahaah (evil laugh inserted) but sometimes going down a path of futility requires a big change.. they've had turn over of Technical Leaders and resulted in the same or worse outcomes..   they've had others come in and try and do things different in the AMG era but its just not working out.  So why would anything change moving forward keeping the key components of Williams car the same.. I see it as madness not to try and do something different and fresh.

 

COME ON.. Kubica makes it seem like they can't even figure out why his car drives weirdly.. after 3 races and 2 test periods.. really.. that is just pure insantity and frankly, UNCOMPREHENDABLE  :stoned:

 

What Kubica has to do with ditching Merc for another supplier ?? Paco, your dislike for Kub makes you blind or you don't know what you're saying.


Edited by tghik, 25 April 2019 - 21:10.


#1172 SonGoku

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 21:20

Kubica definitely was WC material, put him in that Brawn in 2009 and he would have won one.



#1173 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 21:20

My comment had nothing to do with a specific race or specific set of tires or gap to teammate etc., he said it directly that he is struggling in the race to keep the tires working vs. doing well in qualifying in getting to work for 1 lap.  He said that he has touble out of a corner, he has trouble keeping the tires working for a long stint but not short one.. very much like Gasly, Gio etc.  

 

 

Sorry, not guessing or drawing conclusions, it's fact right from the guys mouth and it's been evident in the 3 races as well.  That said, he isn't the only one, HAAS is struggling, Gasly hugely as is Gio but at least Gio has had a lot of runs interupted so hes had a tough go reliablity wise in race weekends.  There are more quotes by him as well indicating his feeling in the car and it's just more of the same and frankly I'm not going to copy and find them because Frankly, I'm more interested in Williams then any of it's drivers and neither driver is the reason for them being where they are right now (maybe Stroll and Siro but that ship has sailed now thankfully).

 

I know what he said but considering the race results he managed to keep the tires working despite the talk about the issues. 

 

As for a someone who should be more interested in the team than in any of it's drivers you spend a lot of time writing about one of the drivers  :)



#1174 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 22:32

Russel excused media duties, track walk + team meetings due to illness.

https://www.motorspo...lliams/4375544/

Reserve driver doesn’t have enough super license points to race in Baku if required... daft situation.

#1175 Paco

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 22:41

I never said or implied Kubica had anything to do with my questioning whether they should swap PU package.  That suggestion and idea is more about reseting the team from the rut of old ideas and engine integration etc.. especially now that the engines are probably all within 30-40 hp.

 

I was commenting on how impossible it is for Williams to be struggling to understand his chassis if in fact on Friday of China they swap drivers between the chassis to see if there was a different behaviour of the car.. if each driver observed the same behaviour and it's been 3 races, 2 test sessions and the team is lost to understand when surely.. a spare tub HAS to be made and available as the floor has been replaced as well as any suspension components and aero bits and in China they had a new engine cover on so... 

 

I still feel the majority is in his right foot and left hand but that said, if Russell and Kubica on that swap (if it happened) confirmed stuff.. that blows my mind that they are still allowing Kubica to drive that car as means almost everyting he gives feedback wise is useless for any development for now and the future especially as they need to finalize next years car very soon.  The guy is lapping for the sake of lapping and no meaningful data can be made from his effort.    Insert mind blow icon..   THEY HAVE TO HAVE A FULL SPARE of every part now.. so why not give him the new spare stuff and put his tub or floor into spare category.. again insert mind blown icon

 

IF Kubica is racing a known defect internally for this long and this point in the season, that is the real controversy of the season and not how far off pace they are... that is NOT WILLIAMS..  I can not remember far back it's been since a team was run this embarassingly.. maybe Minardi.. and that is saying a lot.

 

Do I think Kubica should be racing after how long he has been away, driven last in a very different era and handicapped by 1 hand-arm.. NO..   Impressive he found a way .. YES.

Do I think its shameful that Ocon is on the sideline ..  YES

 

But like I said time and time again.. Kubica isn't why Williams is off pace (perhaps Stroll and Siro can take some of the blame)...

Kubica isn't why they were late out of the gate, just as Paddy wasn't to blame...

 

Everyday that goes by, more and more evident there is something seriously broken that has happenend a long time ago (you dont get this bad within a year or 2.. we are talking 3-5years of problems) and even as Kubica said, it's on EVERY member of the team.. How in the world they even show up late to Australia with their hospitiality suite and were relagated behind the beer stand ...

 

That all said.. they chassis thing is the most mind bloggling and pissing off of everything as there is no reasonable explanation for it other then a smoke screen diversion for Kubica's struggles and the teams speed. easy to blame a "gremlin in the chassis we can not find"...  its so much unneeded noise and so easily addresss. give the guy a new tub and floor and just get on with  it.

 

Unless the replacements are proven to be equal in their performance making Russell's build the odd ball..  Which is then a major $*&%*&$*&%(*$(  storm..


Edited by Paco, 25 April 2019 - 22:42.


#1176 pdac

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 22:57

Assuming that Kubica still has the required ability, (which I think most of us are hoping for), then I feel that he is important to keep. Because of his unique comeback story other sponsors might be tempted to stay or become associated with the team, in the knowledge that his second career will be focussed on for a time to come. (Canon are still getting brand exposure from the remarkable success that Williams had in the late 80's). Of course this may be moot, as there may simply be not other options available to Kubica in the next few years. Williams need to dig deep to extract themselves out of this hole, and additional sponsorship money never hurts. 

 

Come on, that's a stuck record now. We heard this again and again when he started looking at coming back into F1 "Every team would want him. His story is fantastic. Think of the publicity a team would get if they took him on. The sponsors will be flocking to associate themselves with the team that hires him". It aint happening. His story may be mildly interesting, but it's really not anything more than that. If he were to become WDC, that might be different. But no one is going to be seriously interested until he's challenging for the WDC.


Edited by pdac, 25 April 2019 - 22:58.


#1177 pdac

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 23:03

What Kubica has to do with ditching Merc for another supplier ?? Paco, your dislike for Kub makes you blind or you don't know what you're saying.

 

I don't think it's just a dislike for Kubica. I think there is an underlying issue with rational thinking going on here.



#1178 FNG

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 23:03

Russel excused media duties, track walk + team meetings due to illness.

https://www.motorspo...lliams/4375544/

Reserve driver doesn’t have enough super license points to race in Baku if required... daft situation.

what the hell is the purpose of a reserve driver if they can't race?



#1179 pdac

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 23:05

what the hell is the purpose of a reserve driver if they can't race?

 

It's a title that makes them feel more important than they actually are (you can do the sim testing so that the real drivers can go clubbing).


Edited by pdac, 25 April 2019 - 23:06.


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#1180 Myrvold

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 00:01

what the hell is the purpose of a reserve driver if they can't race?

Ask Mclaren* and Haas the same question? And Racing Point, they haven't got one. Neither has TR but they would probably just borrow Buemi if he isn't racing somewhere else.

 

*yes, I know. They would probably convince Alonso, but officially they only got de Vries in the F1 stable with SL points - and he is not one of the guys on the "test/reserve" driver list.


Edited by Myrvold, 26 April 2019 - 00:03.


#1181 Tsarwash

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 00:13

Come on, that's a stuck record now. We heard this again and again when he started looking at coming back into F1 "Every team would want him. His story is fantastic. Think of the publicity a team would get if they took him on. The sponsors will be flocking to associate themselves with the team that hires him". It aint happening. His story may be mildly interesting, but it's really not anything more than that. If he were to become WDC, that might be different. But no one is going to be seriously interested until he's challenging for the WDC.

I think that a podium would be enough to make it an interesting enough story. Obviously that isn't going to happen this year and it probably won't next year, but the possibility is there for next year. 



#1182 pdac

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 00:18

I think that a podium would be enough to make it an interesting enough story. Obviously that isn't going to happen this year and it probably won't next year, but the possibility is there for next year. 

 

May be interesting for motorsport journalists, but not the wider media and not sponsors either.



#1183 Paco

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 05:05

Seriously, a reserve with insufficent points.. wow..talk about sinking further down the rabbit hole!  Guess a spare chassis isn't their only mess.. 

 

Ocon, DiResta.. are you getting flown in FAST>.



#1184 AndyPerry

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 06:43

He was leading the championship in the third best car in 2008 and was in the championship contention almost to the end of the season despite his team's early switch to the 2009 car. If this isn't world champion material then I don't know what else is.

 

Eric Boullier in his interviews from 2010 ( and even from 2011) has revealed that RK was a great leader with a strong personality and ability to lead the direction of the car development. After Kubica's accident in 2011 Boullier was searching for a proper replacement in that regard and a lot of people were wondering why he expected from poor Nick Heidfeld "a leadership" in the team.

 

Here we go again.. :rolleyes:

 

He sure proved that in the last 14 months, hasn't he?



#1185 AndyPerry

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 06:44

Kubica definitely was WC material, put him in that Brawn in 2009 and he would have won one.

 

Against Button or Barrichello?



#1186 SenorSjon

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 08:08

In China GR wasn't able to do a one stop strategy. He had to do an additional stop a few laps before the end of the race.

RK was able to do the one stop strategy so it's not that bad with his ability to keep the tires workable over a race distance, is it?

 

And still ended way in front of Kubica? That 2nd stop was free. GR lost too much tire temp on the harder tire with the blue flags and it all went downhill with the tire from there. http://en.mclarenf-1...2=Robert Kubica

GR stopped in lap 22 and 49. RK in lap 26. It seems they came out very close to each other, but RK lost 10 seconds in his outlap. RK only gained 6 seconds from lap 28 to 48 on newer tires. 



#1187 statman

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 08:12

George Russell has already arrived at the track. He is recovering from an infection from China.



#1188 GoldenEra

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 09:30

claire says they have a third chassis. that's a relief.

#1189 TomNokoe

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 09:35

claire says they have a third chassis. that's a relief.


So why have they not given it to Robert already?

#1190 tghik

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 09:42

claire says they have a third chassis. that's a relief.

So now the chassis and parts instead of going on RK's car, will be fitted on GR's. Another 2 months wait lol


Edited by tghik, 26 April 2019 - 09:46.


#1191 GoldenEra

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 09:47

So why have they not given it to Robert already?


So now the chassis instead of going on RK's car, it will be fitted on GR's. Another 2 months wait lol


We don't know if it was ready for China or this weekend (Baku). It makes more sense to use it for Barcelona, with whatever 'upgrades' Williams bring.

#1192 tghik

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 10:01

We don't know if it was ready for China or this weekend (Baku). It makes more sense to use it for Barcelona, with whatever 'upgrades' Williams bring.

Doesn't matter Baku or Barcelona. The point is they will not cure Kubica's car's problems, unless someone really believes they will mount new parts on RK's, and his old ones to be now given to GR.



#1193 hodgy21

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 10:07

Doesn't matter Baku or Barcelona. The point is they will not cure Kubica's car's problems, unless someone really believes they will mount new parts on RK's, and his old ones to be now given to GR.

 

Do you think they are trying to sabotage their own driver or something?



#1194 MadYarpen

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 10:17

I would like to see RK getting a new chassis. But it does make sense to keep one new spare when you have a race on a street circuit (the old chassis would probably have to go on some inspection to the factory to be used as a spare in the future, if possible). Anyway it is good to know they have one.

 

And by the way, when they bolted on GR's parts on RK's car it did improve the things. So it is possible this is not chassis issue but the problem is in some part or parts attached to it.

 

Personally I am posting here very little, because I feel we have absolutely no clue about what is going on there. Robert is relatively open about the problems they have, but even he is not saying everything and we know much less about what is being done to address these problems... So we can only speculate, IMO. I feel even comparing laptimes of both drivers is a speculation in their current state.

 

One could say it is a shame it wasn't RK who run over this thing :drunk:


Edited by MadYarpen, 26 April 2019 - 10:18.


#1195 statman

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 10:23

 

It's a pity that Kubica apologist take up so much space in the thread, when the fate of one of F1's greatest teams is at stake .

 

Granted, their driver choices don't help , with a rookie intern and a has-been pay driver at the helm ; Massa is greatly missed I suspect .

 

well said  :)



#1196 GoldenEra

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 10:29

https://twitter.com/...722164984590341

New chassis for George. Won't run in FP2 (maybe nobody will anyway).

#1197 TomNokoe

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 10:33

https://twitter.com/...722164984590341

New chassis for George. Won't run in FP2 (maybe nobody will anyway).

George has to take priority, but if it really is a brand new chassis it is strange it wasn't already used to diagnose Kubica's issues.

Not a great situation for anyone. Kubica misses FP1 at a track he has never driven, and will be the sole Williams in FP2.

Disaster.

Edited by TomNokoe, 26 April 2019 - 10:34.


#1198 cromofo

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 11:31

The crap keeps piling on.

#1199 OvDrone

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 11:45

It's official; Williams are hexed.

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#1200 pdac

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 12:02

So now the chassis and parts instead of going on RK's car, will be fitted on GR's. Another 2 months wait lol

 

So why not think about the possible reasons why they might do this (if, indeed, that's what they are doing).