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Williams: Drivers, management and other folks at Grove 2019


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#101 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 08:34

The guy who sits in another car is Russell- a man who has never driven an F1 race before and is affiliated to Williams for a shorter period of time than Kubica.

I think he deserves several more races before being judged just because even the best drivers have some really bad race weekends from time to time so we need a bigger sample. And there is some doubt about whether lack of new parts might affect the performance of his car. But his 8 years absence should not be an excuse when his team-mate is a rookie. And he knows the team better than Russell.

 

 

I agree.

But Kubica is in fact a rookie too. All his knowledge about F1 from his first "stint" is useless because F1 has totally changed since 2010 when he was racing for the last time before his absence..

He actually had to start from the beginning and his knowledge about F1 from the past was not helpful. 

Russel on the other hand had recent seasons of racing.



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#102 tghik

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 08:55

The guy who sits in another car is Russell- a man who has never driven an F1 race before and is affiliated to Williams for a shorter period of time than Kubica.

I think he deserves several more races before being judged just because even the best drivers have some really bad race weekends from time to time so we need a bigger sample. And there is some doubt about whether lack of new parts might affect the performance of his car. But his 8 years absence should not be an excuse when his team-mate is a rookie. And he knows the team better than Russell.

 

Russell has a smirk smile on his face all weekend because he managed to beat Kubica. Knowing life and F1 a little I just wonder how long the smile will stay with him.

 

Drawing conclusions in a situation such as this (we are talking Williams people, team in a complete state of chaos) after only 1 race weekend, for me is weird, unless of course someone wants to profit to bash RK. I give it 2 more races, after that the performance between Kubica an Russell will start to stabilize and we'll have more significant projection on the rest of the season. Certainly it won't be anywhere near what we see here in Australia



#103 A3

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 09:04

Russell has a smirk smile on his face all weekend because he managed to beat Kubica. Knowing life and F1 a little I just wonder how long the smile will stay with him.

Wow, really. Why the negativity towards Russell? He had a good weekend as a rookie considering the car he has. And indeed did much better than his team mate.

Edited by A3, 17 March 2019 - 09:05.


#104 A3

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 09:06

Damaged floor and the replacement front wing wasn't in a good shape, says RK.


They probably tried to repair the other one he damaged.

#105 WilliamsF1Fan

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 09:14

Russell had a very solid debut, did not put a foot wrong and looked consistent.  Kubica, very hard to judge.  In part the author of his own issues after his errors yesterday.  Unfortunate to lose his wing today and then a mirror.  These things happen but at least he got to the end of the race.  I hope for his sake he is closer to Russell in Bahrain and can avoid any mistakes.  All in all, rather as expected.  



#106 wingwalker

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 09:31

Kubica had a nightmare weekend, some of it was because of mistakes but overall it does raise questions about his overall speed which is very worrying - if it's because of his arm it won't go away. Russel had a good debut, it's a shame that for the time being Williams isn't going to fight with anybody.

 

Sidenote: wasn't Kubica lapped by a teammate (Heidfeld) in his proper debut in 2006, too?

 



#107 absinthedude

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 09:37

RK must go....RK driving one handed....RK sooo slow.

 

We're one race in,guys.....RK had the bad fortune to hit Ricciardo's broken wing which resulted in him pitting for a new wing and damage to the floor of his car. 

 

The only real fact is that both Williams qualified and both finished. 



#108 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 09:48

Kubica had a nightmare weekend, some of it was because of mistakes but overall it does raise questions about his overall speed which is very worrying - if it's because of his arm it won't go away. Russel had a good debut, it's a shame that for the time being Williams isn't going to fight with anybody.

 

Sidenote: wasn't Kubica lapped by a teammate (Heidfeld) in his proper debut in 2006, too?

 

 

1. Damaged floor

2. damaged FW

3. lost mirror

4. 3 pit stops (34 sec longer in total than his TM)

 

Despite that he managed to deliver consistent laptimes, some of them even faster than his TM. 

Stil any questions about his overall speed?  :)



#109 cromofo

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 09:48

RK will always be under the microscope because of his arm. Any mistake he makes will immediately be attributed to it, no matter if other drivers do the same thing. I hope he's in a good place mentally and pushes through. Seeing what he's achieved, I think he'll be fine. Hearing his comments after the race, it seems fitness and his limitations are not a concern.

Drawing conclusions about his performance from today's race is pointless. Damaged car, albeit partly by his fault in Quali, clipped by Gasly right at the start, constantly lapped. Really hard to show anything today.

Glad that GR didn't have any issues and managed to drive his drive, no matter how crap the car is. Every bit helps the team catch up.

Hopefully Robert can do the same come next Grand Prix.

#110 Little Leaf

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 09:49

Judge RK after maybe 6 races, also if he actually has a "clean" weekend.

 

Firing someone after 1 bad race is a bit harsh isn't it? 

 

Blimey



#111 statman

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 10:23

Russell  :up:  :up:  :up:  :up:

Kub: laughable



#112 AlexPrime

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 10:27

They finished, this is something.



#113 farsailor

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 10:29

As for Kubicas pace, i dont care that much. The car is too slow anyway. Hopefully he can pick his pace up. What really is horrible to see is Williams being humilated by the rest of the field. So sad it has come to this.

#114 Domi

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 10:30

In clean air on soft tires in this race Kubica and Russell had the same pace, and Kubica was driving damaged car so please stop saying bs about lack of speed.

Kubica always had nightmare races in Australia other than 2010.

 

Monaco will tell a lot more about him as he was imo the best driver on that track in his last season



#115 empe

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 10:31

The only laughable people are the ones that judge ANY driver after one race.

#116 Victor

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:01

Russell did very well as a matter of fact. Kubica was embarrassing, as predicted. He has everything against him: too many years not driving at top level, age, physical handicap, worst team on the grid by far. What could we expect?  I honestly to not believe he is going to improve much during the season.

Williams are going to miss Stroll, I guess.



#117 cromofo

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:07

The only laughable people are the ones that judge ANY driver after one race.


It's been a theme since 2017 and the first mentions of RK in F1. There's a few that jump on any opportunity to discredit RK, either out of some grudge or to troll and annoy his fans. You can recognize them by the content of their posts, or better, lack thereof.

There are obvious questions to be asked and answered about RK and his performance but doing so after the first race is disingenuous, especially since it wasn't clean and considering the situation at Williams.

As a RK fan, I will admit I obviously wasn't pleased with Sirotkin getting the drive instead of him, yet I still held back on my biased crystal ball and gave him a chance until Europe to show what he's about, and I'm glad I did because I thought he did a decent job with what he was given during the season and I liked his attitude. But I guess being sensible is so hard nowadays.

#118 DrLexus

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:30

I think the team got some good mileage in today.

 

RK was unlucky to catch that damage at the start, after that you may as well treat the race as a test session, which I am sure is what they did.

 

Even with a compromised car though RK was matching Russell, so no pace problems with either driver.

 

Ultimately, they need to improve the car, the team has two solid drivers and a mountain of potential if they can get things sorted.



#119 statman

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:31

The only laughable people are the ones that judge ANY driver after one race.

 

Funny. Because you had no problem already judging a driver when he was announced:

 

 

Posted by empe on 13 December 2017 - 14:39 in Racing Comments
Yes, Kubica turned out to be slow. So are DiResta, Wehrlein, Massa, etc.
 
Luckily two young fast drivers are available: $troll and $irotkin, and maybe ($)Kvyat as well. The fact that they bring millions with them is just a coincidence. [sarcasm off]
 
 
--
and now a Polish money-bag is in the seat and we suddenly shouldn't be so hard and give him time


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#120 tom

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:31

I haven't posted here for awhile, but reading the words 'williams will miss stroll"........
Are you serious?
If so then they surely miss massa alot more?
Considering he was usually half a second quicker than lance

#121 BuddyHolly

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:37

Judge RK after maybe 6 races, also if he actually has a "clean" weekend.

 

Firing someone after 1 bad race is a bit harsh isn't it? 

 

Blimey

^This.



#122 AlexPrime

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:40

 

Funny. Because you had no problem already judging a driver when he was announced:

 

 

Posted by empe on 13 December 2017 - 14:39 in Racing Comments
Yes, Kubica turned out to be slow. So are DiResta, Wehrlein, Massa, etc.
 
Luckily two young fast drivers are available: $troll and $irotkin, and maybe ($)Kvyat as well. The fact that they bring millions with them is just a coincidence. [sarcasm off]
 
 
--
and now a Polish money-bag is in the seat and we suddenly shouldn't be so hard and give him time

 

RK fans can be very bad, just as his haters. As a driver, he's good, we know that he is. But returning to the sport after missing several years can be tough, as we saw with Michael. I'm not writing off RK yet. Besides, Russel is very good. Better than Stroll IMO.


Edited by AlexPrime, 17 March 2019 - 11:40.


#123 Anderis

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:41

I haven't posted here for awhile, but reading the words 'williams will miss stroll"........
Are you serious?
If so then they surely miss massa alot more?
Considering he was usually half a second quicker than lance

 

Massa was half a second quicker than Stroll when Stroll was a rookie. An 18 years-old rookie with no F2 experience above that. So young and inexperienced drivers can find a lot of speed over first few years in F1. Vettel did. Alguersuari did. And Lance was even younger and IIRC less experienced in single-seaters than these two.

That was in the past. Nowadays we should look at how Stroll is doing against Perez. He started well.


Edited by Anderis, 17 March 2019 - 11:53.


#124 farsailor

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:43

I think the team got some good mileage in today.

RK was unlucky to catch that damage at the start, after that you may as well treat the race as a test session, which I am sure is what they did.

Even with a compromised car though RK was matching Russell, so no pace problems with either driver.

Ultimately, they need to improve the car, the team has two solid drivers and a mountain of potential if they can get things sorted.


Now, that is another way to look at it.

#125 Lord Snooty

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:56

Hmmm.

We're focusing on the drivers but it's hard to properly discern true performance when the car is suboptimal.

My impression, from the trackside, was that Russell looked both more comfortable and faster. Kubica had car troubles, of course, but, nonetheless, he looked a little more tentative (or, at least, he did through 9/10).

We won't really know for a few more races yet just how they stack up against each other, so let's see how things stand after Azerbaijan...

#126 tghik

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:56

Wow, really. Why the negativity towards Russell? He had a good weekend as a rookie considering the car he has. And indeed did much better than his team mate.

negativity ? I praise him to be a possible WDC contender. What else to be smiling about this weekend ? Only 1, beating your teammate. Draw your own conclusions, I already have mine.



#127 ANF

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:09

The start to the season has been awful for Kubica: a delayed car, hardly any long runs in pre-season testing, then unfortunate contacts with the walls in Melbourne. Given how ill-prepared he and Williams were, the contact at the start today looked very clumsy. He was at the back of the field and should have made it safely through T1 and spend the next 90 minutes collecting data and gaining confidence in the car. Instead he lost his front wing and picked up floor damage... It will be interesting to see what he can do in Bahrain where you're not surrounded by concrete walls.

#128 SPBHM

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:36

even ignoring that the car is horrible and they didn't test enough, it has been a long time since Kubica last raced any sort of fast open wheel car, I think it will be better to give him the benefit of waiting at least until the second part of the season, to re adapt/learn these cars and also adapt to driving this level of racing car with mostly relying in just 1 arm,

 

so yeah, it was terrible, but in a sense it's to his benefit that the car is so hopeless that I think they can afford to give him time with less pressure because the result will be the same, I mean I don't doubt the Russell extracted what the car had to offer, and he still finished nowhere.



#129 GoldenEra

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:38

https://streamable.com/x80t8

a video of the start.

https://facebook.com...149289871826600

a very in-depth q&a with kubica after the race. i don't speak polish, but google translate does a very good job. well worth a read.

one of the more curious things is that they are STILL having seat (position?) issues. this goes back to abu dhabi 2017 when kubica tested the fw40, and for sirotkin last year.

Edited by GoldenEra, 17 March 2019 - 13:41.


#130 Sixpounder

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 13:21

Wow, RK said he didn't see starting lights because of McLaren rear wing. That's amazing...



#131 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 13:54

Kubica’s car probably had damage after lap one, but even taking that into account, he was so slow compared to Russell. I would not be surprised if Latifi is in that car before the season ends.

#132 tghik

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 13:54

 

--
and now a Polish money-bag is in the seat and we suddenly shouldn't be so hard and give him time

 

People that don't believe in Kubica bring 4 common arguments: his age, that he never was that goo to begin with, time away and his injury. I on the other side see other things: rustiness, the car and the injury. The question is : can these things be fixed ? The non-believers think time away can never be repaired, for me rustiness is not a permanent disease. If he never was that good than we will not see any improvement, he is destined to be in the Russell's shadow who by many is considered better than Ocon and of the same caliber as Leclerc. So basically Kubica is not supposed to even challenge Russell. His age, same. Robert can't be younger, irreparable.

The dissonance is obvious, for Kubica fans issues are fixable, for anti-camp not (all except injury, for sure he lost something because of it)

 

So let's agree to something, if this season Kubica is in the same ballpark performance wise as George, than that would mean Kubica is something special and arguments brought against him don't hold.

 

This weekend very good job by Russell, he did what had to be done. As to Kubica, people forget Russell had last day of Barcelona testing to play with the setup on low fuel, on Fri Kubica couldn't because of the parts (Kubica/Paddy words) I still maintain that this car has some window of operation that suits it and seems to me GR found it early which allowed him to push the limits as the race weekend sessions progressed, reason for Kubica being slower with such a margin. I believe RK knows it, that's why we don''t see any sign of him being distressed.



#133 Paco

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 13:59

 

Don't you think he deserves a few races after his 8 year absence to get up to speed (= to get to know the car better) before we start to judge his performance?

 

 

NO.  Look at how well Charles got into huge Ferrari team full of politics.  Look at how well Nando and Russell have done.  The team do not need a driver to get himself up to speed.. They a need a driver that will be ready from the day FP1 of GP1 of the year starts.  Waiting for him find his groove 1/3 of the way into the season (7-8 races) is ridiculous.

 

Yes huge chip on his shoulders all preseason testing, yes horrible 1st race showing.. sure he'll have better days but can't think how the 1st month of racing for Williams could have been any worse for this guy and being shown up by a rookie thats on good form and saying and doing all the right things.

 

Man I hope he truly is awesome at feedback or else going to be a tough year watching this guy like it was watching McLaren and Vandoorne.


Edited by Paco, 17 March 2019 - 14:00.


#134 GoldenEra

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 14:09

Kubica’s car probably had damage after lap one, but even taking that into account, he was so slow compared to Russell. I would not be surprised if Latifi is in that car before the season ends.


He doesn't have enough super licence points.

#135 Domi

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 14:44

Kubica’s car probably had damage after lap one, but even taking that into account, he was so slow compared to Russell. I would not be surprised if Latifi is in that car before the season ends.

what are you talking about ? better look at laps comparison because they had virtually the same pace in clean air



#136 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 16:38

Hmmm.

We're focusing on the drivers but it's hard to properly discern true performance when the car is suboptimal.

My impression, from the trackside, was that Russell looked both more comfortable and faster. Kubica had car troubles, of course, but, nonetheless, he looked a little more tentative (or, at least, he did through 9/10).

We won't really know for a few more races yet just how they stack up against each other, so let's see how things stand after Azerbaijan…

 

Car troubles = the driver can't trust the car = he can't push to the limit.



#137 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 16:46

Kubica’s car probably had damage after lap one, but even taking that into account, he was so slow compared to Russell. I would not be surprised if Latifi is in that car before the season ends.

 

 

1. Damaged floor (already on saturday)

2. damaged FW replaced by another damaged FW ( from saturday) due to lack of a new one

3. lost mirror on third lap

4. 3 pit stops (34 sec longer in total than his TM).

 

Wonder what Russel would have shown in that car.



#138 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 17:16

People that don't believe in Kubica bring 4 common arguments: his age, that he never was that goo to begin with, time away and his injury. I on the other side see other things: rustiness, the car and the injury. The question is : can these things be fixed ? The non-believers think time away can never be repaired, for me rustiness is not a permanent disease. If he never was that good than we will not see any improvement, he is destined to be in the Russell's shadow who by many is considered better than Ocon and of the same caliber as Leclerc. So basically Kubica is not supposed to even challenge Russell. His age, same. Robert can't be younger, irreparable.

The dissonance is obvious, for Kubica fans issues are fixable, for anti-camp not (all except injury, for sure he lost something because of it)

 

So let's agree to something, if this season Kubica is in the same ballpark performance wise as George, than that would mean Kubica is something special and arguments brought against him don't hold.

 

This weekend very good job by Russell, he did what had to be done. As to Kubica, people forget Russell had last day of Barcelona testing to play with the setup on low fuel, on Fri Kubica couldn't because of the parts (Kubica/Paddy words) I still maintain that this car has some window of operation that suits it and seems to me GR found it early which allowed him to push the limits as the race weekend sessions progressed, reason for Kubica being slower with such a margin. I believe RK knows it, that's why we don''t see any sign of him being distressed.

 

Exactly. Russel completed the entire planned program on his second day of testing (140 laps without any issues). Kubica's program was interrupted on his second day of testing  due to a "tired car" and lack of new parts according to Paddy L.

Kubica did only about 20% (!) of what should have been done in order to prepare the car for Australia. He still needs to complete the missed 80% of preparation. Today's race was in fact the missed test for him and he said they will continue the tests in the next race.
 



#139 absinthedude

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 17:52

NO.  Look at how well Charles got into huge Ferrari team full of politics.  Look at how well Nando and Russell have done.  The team do not need a driver to get himself up to speed.. They a need a driver that will be ready from the day FP1 of GP1 of the year starts.  Waiting for him find his groove 1/3 of the way into the season (7-8 races) is ridiculous.

 

Yes huge chip on his shoulders all preseason testing, yes horrible 1st race showing.. sure he'll have better days but can't think how the 1st month of racing for Williams could have been any worse for this guy and being shown up by a rookie thats on good form and saying and doing all the right things.

 

Man I hope he truly is awesome at feedback or else going to be a tough year watching this guy like it was watching McLaren and Vandoorne.

 

Of course you don't want to accept that RK (like any other driver who has a bad weekend) should be given a few races to settle in.....because then there's a chance that he might show that he's still got what it takes.

 

Yes there are question marks about Kubica. But none of them were answered at Melbourne.

 

Lack of testing, less than Russell

Damaged front wing at the start - not RK's fault

Also damaged floor possibly in the same collision

Mirror fell off after three laps

 

In clean air the lap times clearly show he was as fast as Russell. But of course that's inconvenient to some....

 

I still say give the guy some time. The car as a crap-box which is still not sorted, he got fewer testing laps than intended and fewer than his team-mate, he was hit on the opening lap by another car which clearly cost him at least 30 seconds plus put him out of sync. Both drivers have been told not to ride the kerbs, definitely a part of RK's driving style (unsure if this affects GR as much)...which means he cannot push as he'd like. 

 

But yeah...whatever....write him off after one race where his car was damaged. I'm sure everyone performs 100% on their first day at the office when starting a new job....



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#140 BobbyRicky

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 17:56

Man, Kubica is quite crap.



#141 David Lightman

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 18:07

You could swap RK for Lewis and the car would still get lapped twice so why not the give the guy a chance? So many joyless people on the internet it's tragic.



#142 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 18:16

NO.  Look at how well Charles got into huge Ferrari team full of politics.  Look at how well Nando and Russell have done.  The team do not need a driver to get himself up to speed.. They a need a driver that will be ready from the day FP1 of GP1 of the year starts.  Waiting for him find his groove 1/3 of the way into the season (7-8 races) is ridiculous.

 

Yes huge chip on his shoulders all preseason testing, yes horrible 1st race showing.. sure he'll have better days but can't think how the 1st month of racing for Williams could have been any worse for this guy and being shown up by a rookie thats on good form and saying and doing all the right things.

 

Man I hope he truly is awesome at feedback or else going to be a tough year watching this guy like it was watching McLaren and Vandoorne.

 

 

Anyone recalls the big hype about „great achievement“ of one certain test driver Di Resta who was driving for Williams during one race weekend without previous preparation? Di Resta hadn’t been away from F1 for 8 years. He didn’t even finished the race but it was enough he didn’t crashed and the whole F1 world has praised his big achievement.

Kubica’s achievement is even bigger. He is back after 8 years and he still has the speed. His preparation program was interrupted on the second day of testing due to a "tired car" and lack of new parts. As result he has learned only 20% of what should have been discovered about the car. Russel completed his entire test program.  

 

Russel is a rookie but he had recent seasons of competitive racing in single seaters. Kubica is actually a rookie too. F1 has totally changed since his last race in 2010 (cars, tyres) and his knowledge from the past is useless, he had to start from the beginning.

 

In this year‘s Ferrari Kubica would shine too. Kubica made a great start today with the hard compound (he didn’t even practised starts on the hard compound!) and was ahead of Russel before it came to the contact with Gasly which damaged his FW and ruined his race.

Williams knows exactly that Kubica needs a few races (who told you about 7-8 races?) to get rid of the rust. His job for today was to finish the race and gain some experience in order to make up the missed long runs from his interrupted Barcelona tests.


Edited by ForeverInLoveWithF1, 18 March 2019 - 09:38.


#143 ClubmanGT

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 18:18

Kubica has also made the probably terminal mistake of not being British in a British team with a British team-mate. Forgive me if I don't take the Autosport Forums as gospel on his performances. 



#144 GoldenEra

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 18:19

You could swap RK for Lewis and the car would still get lapped twice so why not the give the guy a chance? So many joyless people on the internet it's tragic.


This so much (the joyless bit). Certain people in this thread are intent on dragging the thread down with useless one-sentence comments. It wouldn't be so bad if they could actually properly articulate their point of view. But they don't. Sad people.

#145 PayasYouRace

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 18:21

Kubica has also made the probably terminal mistake of not being British in a British team with a British team-mate. Forgive me if I don't take the Autosport Forums as gospel on his performances. 

 

That only seems to be a problem for this forum's anti-British brigade.

 

Frankly, only a minority of posts display any sort of reasonable opinion of Robert's understandably difficult race.



#146 Murdoch

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 18:21

This so much (the joyless bit). Certain people in this thread are intent on dragging the thread down with useless one-sentence comments. It wouldn't be so bad if they could actually properly articulate their point of view. But they don't. Sad people.

 

Yeah right.



#147 coppilcus

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 18:21

Poor guys... they’re looking worse than Manor.

Edited by coppilcus, 17 March 2019 - 18:55.


#148 BuddyHolly

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 18:23

Some of the Kubica hate on here is shocking, I'm not a RK fan but I hope he comes back next race and delivers a great drive.   Writing him off after one race is absurd.

Gasly was miles behind Max, should we sack him too?



#149 ClubmanGT

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 18:23

That only seems to be a problem for this forum's anti-British brigade.

 

Frankly, only a minority of posts display any sort of reasonable opinion of Robert's understandably difficult race.

 

Forgive my cynicism. After all, this is DC's year. 



#150 loki

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 18:30

That only seems to be a problem for this forum's anti-British brigade.

 

Frankly, only a minority of posts display any sort of reasonable opinion of Robert's understandably difficult race.

Those guys have their hands full.  The car is an absolute crapwagon.  We really don't know if Bobby K is up to the task physically or was away too long because of the car.  It's a grave situation in Grove.