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Williams: Drivers, management and other folks at Grove 2019


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#1601 TheJammin

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:36

If Williams genuinely are looking at other drivers and bringing others in for free practices or such, they could be looking for as wide a range of feedback as possible. Latifi has done the in-season test now, he'll have a feeling for the car. By doing practice sessions he'll also be able to provide feedback on new bits and improvements they make. They'll have Kubica, Russell, and Latifi to give their opinions. They'll get a bit less time each in the car, but 3 opinions may be better than 2.

 

Or, alternatively they don't believe in Kubica or Russell's feedback and are willing to cash a bit of money to put someone else in for feedback, and all they can get is Latifi. Plus he has knowledge of F2 cars, a much better car than that FW42 haha.



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#1602 TheJammin

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:40

Just had a look out of curiosity's sake, and we can't compare FW42 to a F2 car just yet. Kubica's quali lap was roughly 8 seconds faster than the F2 quali lap in Barcelona. So that's something at least... Haha.



#1603 GoldenEra

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 19:11

If Williams genuinely are looking at other drivers and bringing others in for free practices or such, they could be looking for as wide a range of feedback as possible. Latifi has done the in-season test now, he'll have a feeling for the car. By doing practice sessions he'll also be able to provide feedback on new bits and improvements they make. They'll have Kubica, Russell, and Latifi to give their opinions. They'll get a bit less time each in the car, but 3 opinions may be better than 2.

Or, alternatively they don't believe in Kubica or Russell's feedback and are willing to cash a bit of money to put someone else in for feedback, and all they can get is Latifi. Plus he has knowledge of F2 cars, a much better car than that FW42 haha.


people need to remember/be made aware that the latifi testing/6 fp1s deal was announced back in december of last year.

https://www.williams...-reserve-driver

#1604 hansmann

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 10:31

I'm genuinely curious:  who are all these people jumping for the chance to trundle around at the back of the pack in a Williams?  (And can replace the several million dollars from Kubica's budget.)

 

Latifi?  Nope, -- no Super License, so not this year.

 

Sirotkin?  His backers cut the payment in half even before they saw how bad Williams was this year.  I can't see them offering anything now.

 

Ocon?  He already turned it down once -- as I recall he wanted to be paid $4M,not bring anything.  He and Russell are looking at the same opportunities for the future, Russell already knows the Williams, and Toto has promised to take care of Ocon.  Where's the benefit to Ocon?

 

Werlein?  What does he bring to the deal?  Several million dollars?  Don't think so.

 

Young IndyCar drivers?  Would they rather run last in Formula One than have a shot at podiums and possibly wins in IndyCar?  They don't seem to think so.

 

So, who?

 

Rookie drivers like Russel, who gets to drive in F1 for the experience he will gain and attention he will get from the team bosses ; there on merit and groomed by Mercedes .

Results don't matter for him at this point, as long as he's in the sport and his data and racecraft looks good .

 

Paydrivers like Kubica who are desperate enough to throw money at any F1 seat available to them , accepted by a team desperate for said money .



#1605 Cynic2

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 15:30

I was replying to Paco's statement that there were drivers lining up to get one of the Williams seats now, replacing Kubica in the middle of the season.

 

Russell and Kubica are both with Williams for the reasons you mention.  If Williams were to listen to various posters on here and toss Kubica out of his seat now (taking his sponsorship with him) I don't really see this long list of potential (immediate) replacements.  I'm seriously wondering who's on it.  Is there someone I'm overlooking who has (1) a Super License, (2) a substantial budget, and (3) the desire to drop whatever he's doing to drive around at the back of the F1 pack?

 

I think Williams has to stay with what they have, at least for the rest of the season.



#1606 Louis Mr. F1

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 16:10

With Bob Fernley leaving the McLaren group after the Indy failure, should Williams try to get Fernley in some day-to-day operation role?   I reckon he's done pretty well in running Force India with a tight budget.



#1607 PayasYouRace

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 16:53

If Fernley would be able to replicate his work at Force India, he’d be a very good choice for Williams. He’s probably got a good idea of the culture for success in modern F1 for a team of that size.

#1608 Shockabuku

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 17:06

With Bob Fernley leaving the McLaren group after the Indy failure, should Williams try to get Fernley in some day-to-day operation role?   I reckon he's done pretty well in running Force India with a tight budget.

 

I was thinking the same thing. At the very least they could hire him as a consultant to review the current facilities, processes, etc at Williams, with a view to comparing them with how Force India were operating. 



#1609 WilliamsF1Fan

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 17:17

Certainly it is worth a try and I think he seems more of a fit with Williams than Lowe did.  However, all of this talk of not bringing in new faces makes me feel this move is unlikely.  Pity though.



#1610 szym3k

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 17:19

Williams is not going to hire Fernley. They're in survival mode till 2021, evaluating internal processes and testing indefinitely, not racing. 



#1611 Pete_f1

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 17:36

I doubt much will change in 2021.

#1612 pdac

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 17:41

I doubt much will change in 2021.

 

Do you mean "in 2021" or, perhaps, "for 2021". I'm sure that, if something hasn't changed by 2021, it will in 2021.



#1613 DeKnyff

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 17:56

Williams is not going to hire Fernley. They're in survival mode till 2021, evaluating internal processes and testing indefinitely, not racing. 

"In survival mode" means having someone able to handle the team (like Fernley), otherwise it won't survive.



#1614 Paco

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 20:52

Rememer, this is the same Claire is going on about the fact they haven't gotten paid for Baku from Baku, partly cause of themselves but what.. that must represent 0.5% of their operating budget at most.. if they are trully over 100m.. Baku couldn't have cost them more then 500,000 and probably no where that.. So if that pitance makes a difference to them wow, it must be hard in the manufacturing department to do anything meaningful.  Its so painful to watch this season unfold continually unable to have any glimmer of forward movement.

 

IF it was purely a DF a design issue, they should clawed back a lot of messed up launch concept quickly but the fact they can't shows internally they don't have the staff to deal with it.  Which is a disaster for 2020 with the staff they have to make a difference.  Arggghhhhh..

 

As for Kubica, his recent comments kind of make it seem he'll make it hard on the team to get him to vacate that seat.  He seems comfortable being this bad and seeing the season through.



#1615 WilliamsF1Fan

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 07:05

Why should he just give up his seat?  It is a final opportunity (potentially) to race in F1, I think anyone would fight to keep their seat in that situation, however they were performing.  

 

Also, you make it seem like the team just have £100m floating around the bank, it wouldn't be like that, cash would come in in instalments and go out the same, they would have an operating budget per week/month/grand prix weekend and 500k would definitely take a huge chunk out of that.



#1616 TheJammin

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 07:26

To be fair if I was Kubica, i.e. a racing driver, I'd see out the year even considering how poor I've seemingly been. I'd have the belief that I'll get more comfortable and get better. And he's got boundless determination that man, he's got a point to prove to himself and to others, so I wouldn't expect him to pack his bags unless forced. Credit to him for persevering, even if the likes of me and others think he's not entirely up to the task.



#1617 absinthedude

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 07:59

I can't see anyone available who has a superlicence and would be suitable to replace Kubica. And I've previously asked....do we actually know that his feedback is poor? 

 

As for RK himself, persevering at the back only makes sense if he believes the problems are not with his driving ability. He's alluded to not understanding why his race pace is "bad", given that his long runs in testing prior to 2019 were where he was most impressive. It is odd, and I do suspect is not down to one simple factor such as "Kubica only has one arm". There's more going on, probably related to the car and his inability to make the car work for him. It's happened to many drivers in the past, where a car suited one team-mate and not the other (see Benetton 1993-97, for example). 

 

I also don't know that Kubica is *that* much slower than Russell over a race distance. If the cars were as fast as the Red Bulls....would we be seeing them finish 4th and 6th? Or would RK be struggling to finish in the top 10? Or would a better car allow RK to be closer to GR? Additionally we don't know how good Russell actually is.....he's impressing to some degree but in the FW46 he could still be anywhere from a competent journeyman to the next multiple WDC.....and we'd actually not really know. 



#1618 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 08:44

Thought it was interesting on the latest Beyond The Grid podcast, Massa admitted Lowe was a disappointment when he arrived at Williams.

 

There have been some claiming he was a bit of a fraud, I wouldn't go that far but I don't think he was the leader Williams required.



#1619 Paco

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Posted Yesterday, 16:00

So even on what is considered a drivers circuit, where a driver can make up difference he's still behind his teammate, probably was his best chance to since the start of the season and wasn't able to.  Pretty ominious. 



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#1620 Francesc

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Posted Yesterday, 16:06

Man, every race I'm getting more convinced that Russell would be putting the Mercedes on pole as much as their current drivers are doing. He's quite underrated here.

#1621 HermannH

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Posted Yesterday, 16:11

Russell once again clearly faster. Not looking good for Kubica. 



#1622 Piif

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Posted Yesterday, 16:12

Man, every race I'm getting more convinced that Russell would be putting the Mercedes on pole as much as their current drivers are doing. He's quite underrated here.

 

I don't think he's underrated, he just gets the job done. Kubica isn't much of a benchmark for anyone nowadays, unfortunately.



#1623 TomNokoe

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Posted Yesterday, 16:20

Kubica looked much, much faster than Russell in FP3, but only improved by 0.335s in qualifying.

Kubica was actually up 0.077s on George after S1&S2 on the last runs but lost time in S3.

I found it bizarre that Williams only ran 2 sets of tyres in Q1. Plenty of time for 3 runs.

Respectable from both. No need for any Kubica criticism today. He is definitely more comfortable in slow corners than fast corners and I think still learning Pirelli rubber.

Edited by TomNokoe, Yesterday, 16:29.


#1624 Francesc

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Posted Yesterday, 17:36

Russell ran 3 runs with 3 new sets of tyres, while Robert only two because on his second run he hit traffic on the first timed lap and so didn't have enough time to make a stop to change tyres.



#1625 MaGiK

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Posted Yesterday, 18:45

It looks like in Monaco GR and RK have very similar pace with George having an edge in S3 and Robert in S2. Which i find ironic, considering many people said Robert couldnt drive Monaco because of hairpin in S2 xD

#1626 messy

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Posted Yesterday, 19:52

Need to see how Kubica gets on tomorrow really. That's been his weakness. So far he reminds me of Rio Haryanto in 2016 - respectable in qualifying but just drifting off the back every race. I like the guy and love his story - want him to succeed badly.

#1627 GiorgioF1

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Posted Yesterday, 20:11

They were almost neck to neck right up until Russell came for 1 more stop when he got fresh new softs and then went 0.3s quicker on that run at the end of q1 and it helped tremendously in S3 (which RUS drove beautifully). Anyone who understands how good Russell really is knows that Kubica is doing a solid job in his 6th race after 9 years on a track so many people were convinced he couldnt drive at because of 1 arm and the hairpin.


Edited by GiorgioF1, Yesterday, 20:12.


#1628 alfsboy

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Posted Yesterday, 20:26

No idea about Lowe but several  leading people in F1 remarked to me  years ago in my motorsport days  that a mediocre can go a long way riding on others backs but in the end  they get caught out but some survive to retire with a good reputation and pension  they never deserved  .In the case of one person I know the comments were interspersed with pithy   adjectives and was far from polite .The person he was talking about suddenly went from F1 on an ever  downward spiral of lower series.Lets hope Williams pull through .They dont deserve it but the public need good  competitive teams .



#1629 Paco

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Posted Today, 00:05

Need to see how Kubica gets on tomorrow really. That's been his weakness. So far he reminds me of Rio Haryanto in 2016 - respectable in qualifying but just drifting off the back every race. I like the guy and love his story - want him to succeed badly.

 

Considering the trains that happen etc.  If he does fall back thats even worse then what we have seen this season.  He should pretty much stay on the tail of however is in front.  Especially as they'll be getting blue flagged nearly every corner.