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Williams: Drivers, management and other folks at Grove 2019


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#4451 shure

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:53

Ohhh yup. This one is good. As I said before - I trust no words from a williams team. I have my reasons to believe its a very convinent thing for them to keep roberts status perceived the way it is now. Funny is that you so blindly believe those words of a man whose not even a chief race engineer (another good one from williams) when on the other hand the driver says "I have never driven George’s car so I cannot judge, but you do not have to drive to see some things". Sure, call me delusional, but I have followed Roberts career for more than 10 years and I know that I can trust his words. Surely I couldnt say this about any of the f1 teams with all this politics around. And here comes another wicked theory: williams acknowledges robert poor tyre management just when theres roumors about haas possibilities who is also struggling with the tyres. ;-)

What this basically boils down to is you have an unshakeable belief and no matter what evidence is put forward you will just refuse to believe it if it doesn't conform to that.  I admire your faith but ultimately it makes debate fairly pointless



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#4452 noikeee

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:53

Smartest thing I’ve read here in a long time!!!! Seriously. Let George go somewhere better and let Williams take in as much cash possible... I wonder if Claire would have the courage to do that since the most recent reports of finances look like shambles in the accounting department. Poor Paddy has zero to work with and develop anything... sounds like going to be the same right now so man alive next year going to be horrendous.

Latifi Kubica combo could be good for them to have a year out of the public eye with George causing them a lot of unnecessary pressure...


Because having Stroll and Sirotkin worked brilliantly.

#4453 Beri

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:56

I'm so confused right now..

#4454 NoForumForOldPole

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 22:02

I/m a bit confused. What exactly is this indicative of?


Just a simple question what those white marks are. Does not indicate anything. (yet 🤣)

Edited by NoForumForOldPole, 11 September 2019 - 22:06.


#4455 Clatter

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 22:16

Would it not make more sense for Kubica to enter F2 in a Orlen car, win F2, then enter F1 as reigning F2 champion? :) In this case, any doubts would be removed. :up:

Except the rules mean he can't.

#4456 Paco

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 23:38

Because having Stroll and Sirotkin worked brilliantly.

I ask 30-50mil would be useful at this point more then 1 drivers dominance over the other. Seeing how it went at launch and where they still are now I don’t see any reason they will be more then they are now and prob worse for the early races next season so let Russell go somewhere decent and get on with setting up the team for success in 2021. As horrid as Stroll was speed wise and continues to be, I never felt then that Williams was this far back.. now it seems all engineering and little to do with drivers..yes Kubica is a cruz but if they took big paycheques so be it... Latifi will prob be better but doubt he’ll be giving Russell a hard time often.. so why not take both pay drivers, they will still finish 10th or on a prayer 9th irregardless of who is driving (prob what 1-2 points next season lottery days) and still next to no additional F1 funds coming in... take Both of these pay guys and work on fixing their engineering 1st and foremost...

Claire would be happy, Kubica love-in would continue.
Board would be happy with a good balance sheet.
Patrick Head would be happy being able to hire engineers.
And still finish in the exact same spot irregardless of who’s driving in 2020.

Edited by Paco, 11 September 2019 - 23:46.


#4457 Rodaknee

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 23:52

The black bottom parts of FW of one of the cars have white marks across whole width of it while on other car's FW is plain black. What are those white marks? Is it the same FW swapped between cars? Probably there is simple explanation. And defo it is same spec.

 

It's very obvious, Williams have reverted to 1970's technology. 

 

They're Go Faster Stripes.



#4458 NoForumForOldPole

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 06:18

It's very obvious, Williams have reverted to 1970's technology.

They're Go Faster Stripes.


You have to give it to Claire, they really are trying everyhing that budget allows.

#4459 SenorSjon

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 07:30

You have to give it to Claire, they really are trying everyhing that budget allows.

 

She should swap with her brother and see what can happen...



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#4460 sgtkate

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:10

Just a simple question what those white marks are. Does not indicate anything. (yet )

I see it now. I didn't at first. As another poster said maybe they are sensors? So the wings haven't been swapped just the sensors ran on Russells car on Friday and Kubicas on Saturday? Not seen those kind of markings before though. Good spot and yeah interesting. If they have swapped the wings over, as you say, is that a normal thing to do? Is anything Williams doing this year normal?!?



#4461 Clatter

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:14

I see it now. I didn't at first. As another poster said maybe they are sensors? So the wings haven't been swapped just the sensors ran on Russells car on Friday and Kubicas on Saturday? Not seen those kind of markings before though. Good spot and yeah interesting. If they have swapped the wings over, as you say, is that a normal thing to do? Is anything Williams doing this year normal?!?

 


If the sensors have been attached to the wing, its probably easier and quicker to swap the wings than the sensors.

#4462 NoForumForOldPole

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:22

If the sensors have been attached to the wing, its probably easier and quicker to swap the wings than the sensors.

That would also explain why teams like to put race numbers so high up on the nose, so when they swap FW around - the race number stays on the car and not on switchable nose element.

Edited by NoForumForOldPole, 12 September 2019 - 10:55.


#4463 GarilNarbe

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 11:30

If the sensors have been attached to the wing, its probably easier and quicker to swap the wings than the sensors.

 

But if it is true, that means that those wings are different. What would they change the sensors for if the cars and wings are the same?



#4464 PayasYouRace

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 11:37

Could they possibly be load sensors or something?


They look like strain gauges. Used to measure the bending on the wing.

https://en.m.wikiped...ki/Strain_gauge

#4465 Clatter

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 11:43

But if it is true, that means that those wings are different. What would they change the sensors for if the cars and wings are the same?

 


To gather data. Quite possible that each driver has a setup preference on the wing settings and they want that data on those settings.

#4466 Paco

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 13:22

Wow... all this talk over sensors now... and why one or other driver rides with it... the level of craziness over minor details is incomprehendible... they’ve got far bigger issues then trying to keep on the narrative non equalness that doesn’t exist as a cause for being almost a second off..

#4467 Dutchrudder

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 13:32

Anyone hope there is at least some money going into the 2021 design?

Yeah, of course.

Hows about this for hope though.

Last years car had some major flaw causing unpredictable aero stall.

Williams never got to the bottom of this and had to work on a completely new groundup design concept for this season that was low risk to remove this imperceptible unknown problem.

This years car may be draggy and slow, but at least they have something to improve upon year on year.

Just hope there is some money for design.

#4468 Beri

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 13:47

Please, is this all we can talk about? This everlasting search of unfair treatment towards a certain driver?

There was huge news about Williams financial losses. No one even bothered to go in depth into this matter. Luckily I stumbled upon a post on a Williams forum elsewhere. And it contains a lot of information that I think is worth posting here.

Credits go to IanSmithISA from the Williams F1 forum on Sportsnetwork.net:

Over the last couple of years WGPE have reported full year revenue which is double the half year amount if you exclude one-off payments, land sale and "one-off partnership income" (Stroll departure fee?).

So that would give revenue of £92m for 2019 down from £122m (after removing the £8m) in 2018, that's a drop of £30m.

H1/H2 Spending
Costs in F1 are incurred (well paid, rather than necessarily incurred) more evenly over the year than might be expected and income is mostly received evenly over the year.

In 2018 H1 Revenue £61 and a £2m loss
In 2019 H1 Revenue £46 and a £20m loss

For all practical purposes the increase in the loss, £18m, is very close to the loss of revenue, £15m give or take a bit.

FY Result
For the full year 2018 Williams reported a £12m profit.
For the full year 2019 Williams would report a £14m loss if the spending profile was the same as 2018.

Remember that in 2018 there was a one off £8m payment, so £2m loss to £12m profit is a £14m change, but subtract the £8m and you get a £6m change.

Prize Money Loss
The prize money loss is less than might be expected as Wiliams get the fixed amount of $35 million and a $10 million classic team payment so it is down only the portion related to finishing position.

If you believe the Internet, then about £20m or less would be the loss in prize money.

Sponsorship
I couldn't work out what RokIT are paying as I never knew how much the Strolls were paying, if anything, so Kubica's money might be more or less and maybe the Rexona deal had performance clauses.
So a very wild guess is that the sponsorship is down by around £10m.

Payroll
In 2018 the payroll costs were £69m up from £63m but this is not broken down between WGPE and WAE. It is worth noting that the highest paid director received £4.4m this may be reducible if the loss would be as big as expected.

Debt
£8.5 million - 4 payments of £0.5m every six months from October 2019 and the remaining £6.5m in October 2021
£1 million - To be paid off by June 2020
£10 million - Revolving Credit available until October 21 2021, currently this is fully used.
£12 million - Overdraft facility, £7million expires in December 2019, the remaining £5 million to be renewed in June each year, about £6.8 million is currently used.

If you look at the Going Concern section of the 2019 interim report you find a suggestion that there may be an inadequate cash flow over the next 16 months and new borrowings may be needed. This depends upon new sponsorship and other expected income not arriving, whilst the need is not certain it is likely enough that is mentioned, which it usually isn't.

This may be of concern as the existing debt has unspecified cash flow covenants

Paddy Lowe
I couldn't find any reference to a severance payment for Paddy Lowe, if one had been made or was expected to be made I would have expected to see it noted, so it may be that the payment was small and just part of the normal payroll process.

WAE
It may be that there is some clever accounting going on with WAE and provision of services to WGPE, if there is then it is not mentioned. Revenue up to £31m from £21m and profit roughly unchanged at £2m.



#4469 PayasYouRace

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 14:02

Thanks for sharing, Beri. Not much I can add as I’m not much of a financial expert. It’s concerning, for sure.

#4470 Paco

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 14:20

Please, is this all we can talk about? This everlasting search of unfair treatment towards a certain driver?

There was huge news about Williams financial losses. No one even bothered to go in depth into this matter. Luckily I stumbled upon a post on a Williams forum elsewhere. And it contains a lot of information that I think is worth posting here.

Credits go to IanSmithISA from the Williams F1 forum on Sportsnetwork.net:

The problem is that the finances are intertwined between public and private corporations so impossible to tell where investments are flowing (into or out of F1) payment of dividends etc, 1x charges like buying out Paddy etc. All that analysis is pretty meaningless...

The only thing to take from it, like Renault is that they will need to operate at a loss.. which was atypical for them. It depends on how much is left in the bank and how to negotiate a loan against the value of the team but that in itself is going to be a big red flag of immentiant doom as the cost will still be so high even in 2021 they won’t be able to compete without fixing their balance sheet, spend less or get more income.. spending less is prob not an option as they are on a shoe string...

so they need to land a big name team member and big sponsor with a 3yr commitment to help drive some stability.

I doubt they’ve addressed their suppliers issues yet and are probably holding debt to them and paying in order...

Without selling off a huge stake in the team, they will not be moving up unfortunately.. going to need a major injection of Captial to get their test rigs, sims and composite group up to 2020 scratch... hence why they are heavy and lack track correlation..

Edited by Paco, 12 September 2019 - 14:22.


#4471 Rodaknee

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 15:49

Please, is this all we can talk about? This everlasting search of unfair treatment towards a certain driver?

There was huge news about Williams financial losses. No one even bothered to go in depth into this matter. Luckily I stumbled upon a post on a Williams forum elsewhere. And it contains a lot of information that I think is worth posting here.
 

 

 

Mere mortals don't understand accounts and recent events show accountants don't either, so don't expect a debate on the finer details you've posted.  All I understand is the bottom line - profit or loss.  It doesn't take a genius to realise Williams are in the stinky stuff, because they are not doing well and they will continue to be in the red until the tide turns. 

 

What did stick out, like a baboon's arse, was the £4.4m being paid to one director. What are the others receiving?  I've posted before about Williams staff being expected to work overtime for sod all.  What sacrifices is that director making when they're taking home over £8k a week?  This disparity of pay shows Williams continues to treat it's staff like serfs.

 

In comparison Adrian Newey, he of the very successful RB team is earning around £15m a year.



#4472 Paco

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 15:55

Mere mortals don't understand accounts and recent events show accountants don't either, so don't expect a debate on the finer details you've posted. All I understand is the bottom line - profit or loss. It doesn't take a genius to realise Williams are in the stinky stuff, because they are not doing well and they will continue to be in the red until the tide turns.

What did stick out, like a baboon's arse, was the £4.4m being paid to one director. What are the others receiving? I've posted before about Williams staff being expected to work overtime for sod all. What sacrifices is that director making when they're taking home over £8k a week? This disparity of pay shows Williams continues to treat it's staff like serfs.

In comparison Adrian Newey, he of the very successful RB team is earning around £15m a year.

People get hung up on salaries too much. If teams do not want to pay it, don’t. No one held a gun to their head to pay x millions. As for Newey, pretty sure he gets that as well to cover other non F1 related things as well like the Superxar, boats etc. Some of it is as well to block him from going elsewhere as well. That all said, he’s shown time and time again when the call him back to fix stuff he his worth more then any driver on the grid. A unique talent. Too bad there are not many more with perhaps James another one of high level.

I do think it would be good if he left RB already and helped someone else and drag them up the grid... he’s been at RB for far too long now... too bad he and Patrick and Frank ended the way they did due ownership squabbles. Perhaps frank is ready to unload some and give Newey a big chunk of team and bring him I , sponsors would follow and could make for a cool story and uplift F1 needs.

Newey Williams Renault again :-) with Russell could be some nice times...

Edited by Paco, 12 September 2019 - 16:01.


#4473 Clatter

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 16:20

People get hung up on salaries too much. If teams do not want to pay it, don’t. No one held a gun to their head to pay x millions. As for Newey, pretty sure he gets that as well to cover other non F1 related things as well like the Superxar, boats etc. Some of it is as well to block him from going elsewhere as well. That all said, he’s shown time and time again when the call him back to fix stuff he his worth more then any driver on the grid. A unique talent. Too bad there are not many more with perhaps James another one of high level.

I do think it would be good if he left RB already and helped someone else and drag them up the grid... he’s been at RB for far too long now... too bad he and Patrick and Frank ended the way they did due ownership squabbles. Perhaps frank is ready to unload some and give Newey a big chunk of team and bring him I , sponsors would follow and could make for a cool story and uplift F1 needs.

Newey Williams Renault again :-) with Russell could be some nice times...

Do you really think Newey can drag someone up the grid if they do not have the infrastructure and cash to fund it? It's not like he does it all on his own.

#4474 Rodaknee

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 16:33

People get hung up on salaries too much. If teams do not want to pay it, don’t. No one held a gun to their head to pay x millions.

 

That makes no sense whatever.  High paid directors tend to own the business, they fix the salary.



#4475 DBcas1963

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 16:34

What did stick out, like a baboon's arse, was the £4.4m being paid to one director. What are the others receiving? I've posted before about Williams staff being expected to work overtime for sod all. What sacrifices is that director making when they're taking home over £8k a week? This disparity of pay shows Williams continues to treat it's staff like serfs.

That would be 80k a week not 8k 😳

#4476 Paco

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 16:43

Do you really think Newey can drag someone up the grid if they do not have the infrastructure and cash to fund it? It's not like he does it all on his own.


I do feel he’s be attractive enough to bring in some serious cash. With respect to infrastructure, it’s predominately design and sure the team could handle the rest if they could just focus.

#4477 Rodaknee

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 16:44

What did stick out, like a baboon's arse, was the £4.4m being paid to one director. What are the others receiving? I've posted before about Williams staff being expected to work overtime for sod all. What sacrifices is that director making when they're taking home over £8k a week? This disparity of pay shows Williams continues to treat it's staff like serfs.

That would be 80k a week not 8k

 

And there's me thinking £800 a week was a lot.



#4478 Paco

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 16:51

That makes no sense whatever. High paid directors tend to own the business, they fix the salary.


I disagree, not everyone is an owner, few in fact are and then there is 2 types with and without voting right but irregardless... no one forced by any to pay x dollars for their services. It’s the boards the decision and/or owner and frankly immaterial to anything how much someone makes. That 4mil director charge whatever it is means nothing... you have no idea what percentage that is for the department salary.. maybe there are a few making 1m etc. Could be the family pulling cash out for themselves.. can mean anything. Buying out a long term contract.. etc. Who gets paid what is meaningless. If people doing the work want more then ask or get out... your only worth what you bring to the team and right no one in design Williams seems to be worth a cent.. if there are people making over 250k euros good and lucky they are cause they didn’t help Paddy any and haven’t really shown much since Paddy stepped away.

#4479 Rodaknee

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 16:52

I do feel he’s be attractive enough to bring in some serious cash. With respect to infrastructure, it’s predominately design and sure the team could handle the rest if they could just focus.

 

Dream on.  After years in the doldrums, Williams will not have the best, most skilled, dedicated, knowledgeable people working for them in the design department.  Newey would spend half of his time culling the worse and replacing them.

 

Cash comes after success, not before.



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#4480 Paco

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 17:00

Dream on. After years in the doldrums, Williams will not have the best, most skilled, dedicated, knowledgeable people working for them in the design department. Newey would spend half of his time culling the worse and replacing them.

Cash comes after success, not before.


You do get even Newey hired hand picked overseen teams makes a mess it of every year pracitically requiring him to jump back in and fix stuff... often they are problematic out of the gate and he gets drawn back in and 3 months later the chassis falls into place it and starts to go well. So it’s not as if he isnt use to it or that teams can just function without direction irregardless of how talented each member below the design principle is.

Cash follows success yup, and Newey easily brings that clout enough bring some in just with his signing...

Removing him from RB really depends how bored he gets now that the super car project is pretty much wrapped up and what challenge he wants to take on and if rebuilding a team appeals to him..

I don’t see anything to suggest Williams design group have a clue as they’ve nothing next to nothing all year with this one, shocked we’ve yet to see anything of merit. So either they don’t want spend on modelling and mould making to produce huge updates or they don’t know where to go and decided to shut it down and look for a miracle next year.

#4481 Rodaknee

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 17:23

I disagree, not everyone is an owner, few in fact are and then there is 2 types with and without voting right but irregardless... no one forced by any to pay x dollars for their services. It’s the boards the decision and/or owner and frankly immaterial to anything how much someone makes. That 4mil director charge whatever it is means nothing... you have no idea what percentage that is for the department salary.. maybe there are a few making 1m etc. Could be the family pulling cash out for themselves.. can mean anything. Buying out a long term contract.. etc. Who gets paid what is meaningless. If people doing the work want more then ask or get out... your only worth what you bring to the team and right no one in design Williams seems to be worth a cent.. if there are people making over 250k euros good and lucky they are cause they didn’t help Paddy any and haven’t really shown much since Paddy stepped away.

 

You've written more even more tosh about something that's obvious to everyone reading this thread.  The top paid director is one of the Williams family, who own the team.  If you can't see that, you need to get down to SpecSavers.



#4482 Beri

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 18:21

Thanks for sharing, Beri. Not much I can add as I’m not much of a financial expert. It’s concerning, for sure.


Welcome. Me neither, but it is indeed worrying. A budgetcap might not be enough to save Williams if the worst case scenario will come true.

#4483 Paco

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 21:31

You've written more even more tosh about something that's obvious to everyone reading this thread. The top paid director is one of the Williams family, who own the team. If you can't see that, you need to get down to SpecSavers.


There was a documentary where Williams family have been frugal in paying themselves (Pretty sure Claire has said as much) so they easily may not be the top paid employees on staff, I would even say it’s unlikely. They make money to go race not get super rich... if they felt person x was worth it more then their own personal needs, they would absolutely do such and pay them more then they pull out. Zero doubt it’s happened and continues to. I don’t see Claire or Frank these days getting paid more then other executive staffers or drivers...

#4484 SparkPlug86

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 10:14

Williams extend Mercedes PU partnership til 2025.

 

https://www.williams...-unit-extension



#4485 Anja

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 10:34

And still not buying the transmission or anything else. Let's see where that pride and stubbornness takes them. 



#4486 pdac

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 11:26

Williams extend Mercedes PU partnership til 2025.

 

https://www.williams...-unit-extension

 

Good news.



#4487 Anderis

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 11:31

At least Mercedes seems to have some confidence that Williams will be able to afford to pay for the engines, so the financial situation might not be as dire as some might have imagined.



#4488 Gemini

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 14:46

Don

 

At least Mercedes seems to have some confidence that Williams will be able to afford to pay for the engines, so the financial situation might not be as dire as some might have imagined.

 

Don't read too much from it. 2021-2025 is far away from now.

 

Mercedes is just doing a kind gesture to Williams to allow them for news item that will take attention away from news about financial situation. And the gesture is becasue they feel 'sorry' for what happened with engines in Spa and in week after.

:p


Edited by Gemini, 13 September 2019 - 14:46.


#4489 BRG

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 15:04

And still not buying the transmission or anything else. Let's see where that pride and stubbornness takes them. 

You speak of this as if it would make all the difference overnight.  Maybe the Williams transmission is better than the Merc one?  Maybe it is cheaper to make their own than buy one from Merc, who probably don't dish them out like candy?  

 

Pride and stubbornness brought WIlliams from a hand-to-mouth operation working from a public telephone box to the very top of the sport.  They are the virtues that successful race teams need.  Take a look at Ferrari - aren't they proud and stubborn? And they make their own transmissions.



#4490 Rodaknee

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 16:21

That's put a stop on Red Bull or McLaren asking for a Mercedes engine for the next 6 years.



#4491 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 17:59

Good news.

 

Is it?

 

That means Williams are locked to Mercedes PU no matter what.  :well:  No chance to get a fashionable Renault customer unit nor Honda customer unit. 

 

 

Pride and stubbornness brought WIlliams from a hand-to-mouth operation working from a public telephone box to the very top of the sport.

 

That was Sir Frank not Claire.   ;)  Is Claire Williams nearly as single-minded and determined?  One thinks not.  Is Claire anywhere near the wheeling-and-dealing sponsor guru as Sir Frank!?

 

Besides, the efforts of Dernie and Head on the technical side helped the way a lot.  The benefits of a lavish Fly Saudia sponsorship helped a lot -- one of Sir Frank's brilliant deals.   

 

The free Honda works engines helped the way, a group of Honda executives turned up at Williams Grand Prix engineering one day after all -- Sir Frank himself said that deal fell in his lap.   With Honda poached by Dennis, the Renault works engines were even better for Williams.


 

The efforts of Lowe on the active suspension helped a lot, the efforts of Geoff Willis on the aerodynamics, the efforts of Newey on car design...  There was a timewhen the Williams team were the great innovators, with their radical CVT transmission and the like -- no stone left unturned to find an advantage (but now it seems more the Red Bull team, my favourite, with such an attacking edge IMO).

 

 

Then it was BMW with their bundles of money...  It seems a personal disagreement between Head and Illien was very destructive (it seems both thought of the other as an idiot) and saw Illien storm off to buy Sauber.  :(

 

 

Take a look at Ferrari - aren't they proud and stubborn?

 

They also receive 100m from Formula One Management just for turning up, before other prize monies.  A luxury which Williams F1 do not have...

 

It seems you are saying Williams should wait for a works engine deal to boost them as it did in the past.  Yet they have just signed a 5-year customer engine deal!?  :confused:

 

Besides, to stubbornly refuse customer parts is to ignore the advice of Williams design ace Frank Dernie.  "You need to prioritise spending money on things that make you go faster, in the order of what gives the most lap time." Sir Frank was single-minded about only spending money on things that make the car go faster.  That is what is was all about.

 

Is the current Williams teams as efficient at making the car faster as the Williams team of the late 70's through early 90's?  :confused:


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 13 September 2019 - 18:16.


#4492 Paco

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 18:04

Don


Don't read too much from it. 2021-2025 is far away from now.

Mercedes is just doing a kind gesture to Williams to allow them for news item that will take attention away from news about financial situation. And the gesture is becasue they feel 'sorry' for what happened with engines in Spa and in week after.
:p


I think it’s about trying to draw up cash and sponsorship, wilkiamsncan drop it on a whim and Mercedes can drop them if they don’t pay.. presser means nothing.

#4493 Paco

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 18:06

That's put a stop on Red Bull or McLaren asking for a Mercedes engine for the next 6 years.


Neither have stood a chance and RB will leave or die with a werks Honda for the long foreseeable future. McLaren as well as permanently stuck with Renaukt now which could work out if they ever get on top of their reliability without sacrificing power for it.

#4494 Paco

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 18:09

Williams don’t stand a chance of podiums for a long while now, they need to focus on getting to best of the rest and solid q3 showing. They need to be where McLaren are now.. before any idea of even remotely seeing the signs of getting to the mix.

#4495 pdac

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 18:47

Is it?

 

That means Williams are locked to Mercedes PU no matter what.  :well:  No chance to get a fashionable Renault customer unit nor Honda customer unit. 

 

Of course. As much as people talk about Renault, I do not see them ever besting Mercedes in the next decade.



#4496 Beri

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 21:59

Of course. As much as people talk about Renault, I do not see them ever besting Mercedes in the next decade.


N0h.. not even when Abitesomething brags about a 1000 horsepower?

#4497 pdac

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 12:30

N0h.. not even when Abitesomething brags about a 1000 horsepower?

 

It's not just about the power. It's about the power, the delivery and the reliability.



#4498 GarilNarbe

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 22:17

On Williams Q&A was Russel and Latifi. No info why Kubica was not there. And it was said that "All Williams family is here" so it looks like decision was made. Next Year will be Latifi and Russel.

 

Do not know if it is bad or good. But at least we can watch Kubicas a few next races without those emotions about should he or should not stay at Williams. 

 

FORZA ROBERT!



#4499 Nathan

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 00:21

Maybe the Williams transmission is better than the Merc one?  Maybe it is cheaper to make their own than buy one from Merc

 

Really?...



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#4500 messy

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 00:28

On Williams Q&A was Russel and Latifi. No info why Kubica was not there. And it was said that "All Williams family is here" so it looks like decision was made. Next Year will be Latifi and Russel.
 
Do not know if it is bad or good. But at least we can watch Kubicas a few next races without those emotions about should he or should not stay at Williams. 
 
FORZA ROBERT!


God, Latifi would make Sirotkin look like an inspiring hiring.