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McLaren in 2019: Sainz and Norris, sponsors, management, rumour and scuttlebutt from the MTC


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#901 SparkPlug86

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 10:10

I’d imagine McLaren would just go with Mercedes Fuel/Lube supplier from 2021. Obviously works best.

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#902 shure

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 11:46

I was talking about 2007 specifically, not other years.

 

 

What is hilarious is how he completely failed to stamp his autority over the "children"

which doesn't make it his fault when they act up.  It's complete nonsense to blame somebody else for their actions.

 

We've seen similar examples over the years.  Prost-Senna is the obvious one, but there's Piquet-Mansell, Arnoux-Prost, Mansell-Prost (Prost had more than his fair share looking back) and of course Hamilton-Rosberg.  The only times they didn't cost the team was when they had a car advantage large enough to negate that.  But nobody puts a gun to the drivers' heads to act up and it's nobody else's fault but theirs when they cause disruption.

 

Edit: I won't say any more on the matter as it's veering off-topic 


Edited by shure, 19 October 2019 - 11:47.


#903 New Britain

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 23:38

I was talking about 2007 specifically, not other years.

 

 

What is hilarious is how he completely failed to stamp his autority over the "children"

Okay, but in that case Ron Dennis had to manage two of the most disruptive characters in the sport who were working against each other on the same team, and meanwhile from the other direction a dishonest regulator was trying to destroy the team and Dennis himself. I doubt that anyone in Ron's position could have come out of that a winner.



#904 Muz Bee

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 00:27

That’s why the current pairing looks refreshing. McLaren have had some difficulties with drivers in the past. Lando looked more than a bit rattled after Japan result. Can’t say I blame him though, I just hope the bromance between them doesn’t head south as Carlos levels up the qualifying battle and Lando has more bad luck.

#905 cbbcisace

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 08:12

I’d imagine McLaren would just go with Mercedes Fuel/Lube supplier from 2021. Obviously works best.


I’d imagine Zac will be chasing the $€$€ for a fuel/lubricants sponsor - Total/Orlen/Pertamina have all been in f1 before

#906 blacky

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 08:51

Could be that a company is returning as the fuel sponsor. However, I guess especially at the beginning (in 2021) they will use Petronas fuel.



#907 New Britain

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 09:51

Could be that a company is returning as the fuel sponsor. However, I guess especially at the beginning (in 2021) they will use Petronas fuel.

Could be, although the fuel in the tank is not always made by the oil company sponsoring the car.



#908 SparkPlug86

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 13:03

I’d imagine Zac will be chasing the $€$€ for a fuel/lubricants sponsor - Total/Orlen/Pertamina have all been in f1 before

 

Doesn't mean thats what they will use in the engine.



#909 Hamm

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 14:24

News from Russia
https://www.f1techni...=868692#p868692

#910 cbbcisace

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 16:45

Doesn't mean thats what they will use in the engine.


Oh of course not that’s been pretty clear this year

#911 loki0420

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 18:31

 


Too yellow source. Nothing solid ever mentioned it.

#912 SwedeForceOne

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 19:40

I really doubted him during his first seasons #ThereCanBeOnly1CarlosSainz, but he is starting to really grow on me. Maybe Alonso passed on them 6 tenths to his fellow spaniard?  :cool:



#913 NixxxoN

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 19:47

I really doubted him during his first seasons #ThereCanBeOnly1CarlosSainz, but he is starting to really grow on me. Maybe Alonso passed on them 6 tenths to his fellow spaniard?  :cool:

He is Alonso's one and only disciple, he must have taught him so much stuff



#914 mangeliiito

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 20:39

Weird to see Lando do so many mistakes like he did this session. But everybody did them. So with the track ramping up and if the boys iron out all the wrinkles hopefully we get to follow a nice battle. Might have a chance to take Albon, but also might have to watched out for Gasly who was really fast today.

#915 Danyy

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 20:58

Weird to see Lando do so many mistakes like he did this session. But everybody did them. So with the track ramping up and if the boys iron out all the wrinkles hopefully we get to follow a nice battle. Might have a chance to take Albon, but also might have to watched out for Gasly who was really fast today.


What makes you think you have a chance at Albon? Sure he crashed in FP2 but before that I didn’t see anything to suggest a McLaren would get ahead of a Red Bull

Edited by Danyy, 27 October 2019 - 04:21.


#916 mangeliiito

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 21:07

What makes you think you have a chance at Albon? Sure he crashed I’m FP2 but before that I didn’t see anything to suggest a McLaren would get ahead of a Red Bull

Because Albon in the past has tended to over drive the car when he haven't had so much running in it. And that both Carlos and Lando lost a lot of time on their laps. They would need to nail it yes, but it might happen.

#917 Danyy

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 21:10

Because Albon in the past has tended to over drive the car when he haven't had so much running in it. And that both Carlos and Lando lost a lot of time on their laps. They would need to nail it yes, but it might happen.


I don’t see it personally, he still has P3 tomorrow, he’ll be fine.

#918 Dennista

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 16:35

Potential podium?

 

200.gif


Edited by Dennista, 26 October 2019 - 16:37.


#919 Mc_Silver

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 16:48

Potential podium?

 

200.gif

 

 

Calm down  :lol:



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#920 CPR

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 10:56

https://www.racefans...ff-says-norris/
 

Norris said he is still being slightly restrained in his approach. “Even now I still want to do the races, I’ve still got a lot to learn, so there’s still maybe a little bit that I leave,” he said.

“If I wanted to and if I really needed to, and if I see an opportunity, then I still go for it. But there’s always a decision whether you take the risk.

“Maybe it goes well, maybe it doesn’t. Or do you sit behind for one corner and then maybe do in the next corner, something like that.

“So especially from halfway through the season onwards, the past few races, I’ve been more attacking. It’s always turned out to be much better. I’ve gone forwards and not always backwards.”

Before the summer break Norris lost 1.5 places per race on lap one on average. Since then he has gained 1.8 on average at each race.



#921 SparkPlug86

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 15:32

 

Good attitude to have in your first season. Next year, I want to see him go for it.



#922 Grundle

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 23:22

Does Norris have an issue getting his thoughts into words? Hearing him try to talk sometimes is hard. "Um" ...silence... "Um" I mean he's doing well for himself considering whatever this issue is.

#923 Button4life

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 00:32

Does Norris have an issue getting his thoughts into words? Hearing him try to talk sometimes is hard. "Um" ...silence... "Um" I mean he's doing well for himself considering whatever this issue is.

He didn’t finish high school and I’m guessing hasn’t finished media training as well. Not to forget he’s only 19 years old. He’ll get better at speaking

#924 mangeliiito

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 06:02

Well that was a heartbreaking race. Hopefully back to "normal" at COTA.

#925 SparkPlug86

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 08:39

Does Norris have an issue getting his thoughts into words? Hearing him try to talk sometimes is hard. "Um" ...silence... "Um" I mean he's doing well for himself considering whatever this issue is.

 

I was wondering this myself. I think its pretty obvious that he hasn't got the highest IQ in the world, he seems to lack a little bit of maturity and concentration sometimes, like his attention is elsewhere.

 

His interview with JB on Sky was telling, he admits he needs to get better at leading and set-up and I wonder if his early departed education will be a hindrance. When you compare him to Russel and even Albon, he seems to be a bit distant between the eyeballs. 

 

He's only young, so I'm sure he'll get a lot better, but he needs to do it quickly because his lack of direction in the team will be what stops him beating Sainz. Nice chap, really funny and likable but thats not enough in F1. I'm a big Lando fan, so I hope this is just his persona and behind the scenes he is head-down and hard working... he needs to be a sponge in his early career. I'd like to see JB mentor him a little bit, as a fellow Brit.



#926 Marklar

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 08:45

Uhm, what?

What has education to do with set-up work?

Albon is apparently not particulary good at it according to rumours either. All pretty normal as a rookie.

#927 SparkPlug86

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 09:09

Uhm, what?

What has education to do with set-up work?

Albon is apparently not particulary good at it according to rumours either. All pretty normal as a rookie.

 

I didn't say his education will hinder his set-up work - although you can imagine it might not help.

 

I said, he admits that he needs to get better at leading and set up. I then wondered if his education will be a hindrance. You never expect a new driver to be great at either of those things, but some take to it quicker than others.  



#928 New Britain

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 14:30

I was wondering this myself. I think its pretty obvious that he hasn't got the highest IQ in the world, he seems to lack a little bit of maturity and concentration sometimes, like his attention is elsewhere.

 

His interview with JB on Sky was telling, he admits he needs to get better at leading and set-up and I wonder if his early departed education will be a hindrance. When you compare him to Russel and even Albon, he seems to be a bit distant between the eyeballs. 

 

He's only young, so I'm sure he'll get a lot better, but he needs to do it quickly because his lack of direction in the team will be what stops him beating Sainz. Nice chap, really funny and likable but thats not enough in F1. I'm a big Lando fan, so I hope this is just his persona and behind the scenes he is head-down and hard working... he needs to be a sponge in his early career. I'd like to see JB mentor him a little bit, as a fellow Brit.

Articulacy is only one manifestation of intelligence, which comes in many forms. I don't think we have seen enough of Lando to judge his intelligence. Regardless of his intelligence (however one would wish to measure it), there appear to be significant differences in intelligence even among the most successful drivers on the current grid, but that factor does not seem to have impeded their careers.



#929 CPR

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 16:03



#930 HeadFirst

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Posted 03 November 2019 - 02:56

Pretty good day for the Team today. It will be interesting to see if race strategy can give either driver a shot at getting a top 5 finish.



#931 mangeliiito

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Posted 03 November 2019 - 07:15

At this rate Mclaren just need one thread, since all the talk happens in the technical one.

#932 Lights

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Posted 03 November 2019 - 07:33

Fantastic qualifying pace. Up to the team and drivers now to consolidate it into a good race result.

 

Because frankly that's what has been missing this year. For the 4th fastest car this year they've really been lacking in consistent double car finishes.

 

Only 5 of those so far, and none in which they've beat all the other midfielders with both cars. Too many technical-, operational-, and driver-related issues.



#933 RacingGreen

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Posted 03 November 2019 - 20:57

7th and 8th today somehow feels like the team underperformed this weekend, but compared to where they were just a couple of seasons ago I guess they shouldn't be too hard on themselves.



#934 CPR

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 13:18

https://www.mclaren....sitive-results/
 

Petrobras and McLaren Racing have concluded their technical and sponsorship agreement by mutual consent. The partnership produced clear technological advances in fuels and lubricants and identified opportunities for future collaborations in commercial, technology and social responsibility fields between the two companies.



#935 Eruobodo

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 13:19

Got to love PR releases.



#936 shure

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 13:26

7th and 8th today somehow feels like the team underperformed this weekend, but compared to where they were just a couple of seasons ago I guess they shouldn't be too hard on themselves.

Yes I have to be honest I'm a bit disappointed with the way Norris let Ricciardo overtake him and also the way he couldn't reverse the feat, despite having the better car IMO.  Ricciardo earned his money yesterday but I think Norris could have done better and didn't get what the car was capable of.  Not that he had a terrible race, or anything, but I do think it was a missed opportunity to equal his highest place finish and close up on Ricciardo and Perez in the WDC



#937 jensfan09

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 13:36

Yes I have to be honest I'm a bit disappointed with the way Norris let Ricciardo overtake him and also the way he couldn't reverse the feat, despite having the better car IMO.  Ricciardo earned his money yesterday but I think Norris could have done better and didn't get what the car was capable of.  Not that he had a terrible race, or anything, but I do think it was a missed opportunity to equal his highest place finish and close up on Ricciardo and Perez in the WDC

From the live timing, Ricciardo was 4-5 tenths quicker per lap faster in the first stint, so Lando had no chance to attack him without destroying his tyres, he had a run at him in the 2nd stint on Hards but I think RIC still had a pace advantage, the tables turned in the final stint on mediums where the McLaren had the pace advantage, his chance to overtake was scuppered though by the yellow flag at the end of the back straight, he crossed the line only 3 tenths behind RIC.

 

It was a great strategic race by the team, I think the pit stops were called at the perfect time, If only the pit stops themselves had been a bit cleaner, but it seems that a lot of teams were struggling with pit stops, not just McLaren.


Edited by jensfan09, 04 November 2019 - 13:39.


#938 ARTGP

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 13:41

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mclaren never actually tested or ran any Petrobras fuel or lubricants in the Renault engine. It was always BP-Castrol right?  In fact, Mclaren also used BP Castrol in 2017 when they were still with Honda.

 

Part of the problem was the limited dyno time on Renault's side....Similar to what Red Bull experiences.

 

I could be wrong though, but that was the last I read. Makes this article somewhat amusing.


Edited by ARTGP, 04 November 2019 - 13:44.


#939 jensfan09

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 13:45

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mclaren never actually tested or ran any Petrobras fuel or lubricants in the Renault engine. It was always BP-Castrol right?  In fact, Mclaren also used BP Castrol in 2017 when they were still with Honda.

 

I could be wrong though, but that was the last I read. Makes this article somewhat amusing.

They probably tested stuff in the lab but I don't think it was supposed to be going into the engine itself until 2020. They'll probably continue with BP/Castrol for next year then move over to Petronas in 2021.



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#940 shure

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 13:48

From the live timing, Ricciardo was 4-5 tenths quicker per lap faster in the first stint, so Lando had no chance to attack him without destroying his tyres, he had a run at him in the 2nd stint on Hards but I think RIC still had a pace advantage, the tables turned in the final stint on mediums where the McLaren had the pace advantage, his chance to overtake was scuppered though by the yellow flag at the end of the back straight, he crossed the line only 3 tenths behind RIC.

 

It was a great strategic race by the team, I think the pit stops were called at the perfect time, If only the pit stops themselves had been a bit cleaner, but it seems that a lot of teams were struggling with pit stops, not just McLaren.

and yet immediately after Ric overtook Norris the latter improved and was quicker for several laps but couldn't find a way past.  I think Ric was able to make better use of DRS than Norris was, that's all.



#941 ARTGP

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 13:51

They probably tested stuff in the lab but I don't think it was supposed to be going into the engine itself until 2020. They'll probably continue with BP/Castrol for next year then move over to Petronas in 2021.

 

 

Something like that. Makes sense to align with Petronas to take full advantage of the oil burning *cough* *cough*    ;)

 

*jokes aside*



#942 ARTGP

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 13:57

and yet immediately after Ric overtook Norris the latter improved and was quicker for several laps but couldn't find a way past.  I think Ric was able to make better use of DRS than Norris was, that's all.

 

 

 

 

My own theory is that Mclaren told Norris to go after Ricciardo to push Ricciardo's tires off the cliff. The reason being that Sainz was sitting a position behind Norris ready to pick up the pieces. It would turn a 7-8 to a 6-8 or a 6-7 if they pulled it off.

 

Mclaren are quite clever on the pitwall. I've seen it often this season where they use both drivers to gang up on a competitor. Monaco being the most egregious where Norris held everyone up so that Sainz got a free pit stop.


Edited by ARTGP, 04 November 2019 - 13:58.


#943 jensfan09

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 15:38

and yet immediately after Ric overtook Norris the latter improved and was quicker for several laps but couldn't find a way past.  I think Ric was able to make better use of DRS than Norris was, that's all.

Yeah DRS is so powerful this year, it's hard to defend against, Lando did a good job for a while keeping RIC behind, but unless you've got enough of a pace advantage over the car behind, it's hard to pull away when they've got DRS on you.



#944 as65p

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 15:50

I can't decide if I should be impressed by Sainz or just a wee bit disappointed by Norris. I mean, before this season I judged Saint as very competent and fast, but not exactly "scary fast". Now he seems to have the better of Norris 8 times out of ten, which, if my Sainz asessment was correct, practically rules out Norris as a future great? Or maybe Sainz has stepped up this season, or maybe Norris will have a breaktrough some day... as I said, I can't decide! :p

 

Anyway, the pair seems just right for McLaren in it's current phase, overall a very impressive season considering where they came from. :up:



#945 pacificquay

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 15:54

I can't decide if I should be impressed by Sainz or just a wee bit disappointed by Norris. I mean, before this season I judged Saint as very competent and fast, but not exactly "scary fast". Now he seems to have the better of Norris 8 times out of ten, which, if my Sainz asessment was correct, practically rules out Norris as a future great? Or maybe Sainz has stepped up this season, or maybe Norris will have a breaktrough some day... as I said, I can't decide! :p

 

Anyway, the pair seems just right for McLaren in it's current phase, overall a very impressive season considering where they came from. :up:

 

Norris is a rookie in an era of no testing, he's better than you think



#946 prty

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 16:17

Really? Never heard of it...


It's quite well known. PDLR was beating Hamilton during the tests until they switched to Bridgestones.

#947 ARTGP

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 19:06

Yeah DRS is so powerful this year, it's hard to defend against, Lando did a good job for a while keeping RIC behind, but unless you've got enough of a pace advantage over the car behind, it's hard to pull away when they've got DRS on you.

 

 

Did you see the overtake?  It wasn't a DRS blow by. Ricciardo basically just surprised Lando in a brake zone. He never really got close with the DRS. Lando wasn't even defending the corner, that's how far back Ric was. You wouldn't have thought it was an overtake, until the next moment, Ric was just there suddenly.

 

https://twitter.com/...076607059996673


Edited by ARTGP, 04 November 2019 - 19:10.


#948 Dino2000

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 19:52

Did you see the overtake?  It wasn't a DRS blow by. Ricciardo basically just surprised Lando in a brake zone. He never really got close with the DRS. Lando wasn't even defending the corner, that's how far back Ric was. You wouldn't have thought it was an overtake, until the next moment, Ric was just there suddenly.

 

https://twitter.com/...076607059996673

 

It was a very brilliant move by Ricciardo, really late braking diagonally changing completely the both the normal braking or overtaking trajectory. It took Lando unawared. It's part of the learning proccess. Lando did yesterday one of the best races of his season. His grid getaway from the dirty side was trully remarkable, and showed good fighting and good speed overall.



#949 jensfan09

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 09:17

Did you see the overtake?  It wasn't a DRS blow by. Ricciardo basically just surprised Lando in a brake zone. He never really got close with the DRS. Lando wasn't even defending the corner, that's how far back Ric was. You wouldn't have thought it was an overtake, until the next moment, Ric was just there suddenly.

 

https://twitter.com/...076607059996673

 

I don't remember seeing it in the race, it was certainly a Ricciardo late on the brakes move, I agree that Lando needs to work on his race craft, but I think he's doing a stellar job under the circumstances, it was a similar late bake move that Albon pulled on him in Japan, though not as clean a move as this, DRS still played a part though to keep Ricciardo close so he could make the move.



#950 Dennista

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 12:58

Decent drive from Norris, finally beating his teammate. Lets see if he can keep up this momentum for the next races. He needs to do it a couple more times to prove he is progressing. Disappointing he couldn't keep the renault behind him, his racecraft is well below par at the moment. Hopefully he can iron out his deficiencies for the start of next season.

 

I can't stress this enough, it is imperative he begins to start beating Carlos otherwise we are looking at Vandoorne calibre and another one will bite the dust.