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McLaren Technical Thread (MCL34) Part 2


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#5051 owenmahamilton

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 13:08

Petrobras are ending their sponsorship of McLaren.

 

https://www.autospor...end-within-days


Edited by owenmahamilton, 18 October 2019 - 13:09.


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#5052 NixxxoN

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 13:10

Jacques Villeneuve believes McLaren would be fighting Red Bull if not for Renault PUs.

 

https://www.gpblog.c...s-engines-.html

 

Personally I think it's a very very bold claim.

 

Its perfectly possible. But then again Red Bull have arguably the weakest engine in F1.



#5053 alpes

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 20:06

Petrobras are ending their sponsorship of McLaren.

https://www.autospor...end-within-days


That was about 190 million USD in 5 years or 38 mill a year. Really worried for the hole it will create in the budget of the team, maby not from next year but if not replaced it will create a problem for 2021

#5054 LightningMcQueen

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 21:05

They will fill it NAP

#5055 Mc_Silver

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 14:40

That was about 190 million USD in 5 years or 38 mill a year. Really worried for the hole it will create in the budget of the team, maby not from next year but if not replaced it will create a problem for 2021


They cannot terminate the contract without any compensation. I don't think it's easy to terminate such a big partnership.

#5056 pup

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 15:05

They cannot terminate the contract without any compensation. I don't think it's easy to terminate such a big partnership.

I doubt that the UN will impose sanctions over an F1 contract.  The rest is just optics and whether they think it looks better for them to quietly pay off McLaren or to publicly make a show that they stiffed them.  



#5057 BRG

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 17:01

Not sure that shafting Ayrton Senna's old team would be a good move for a Brazilian politician.



#5058 rodlamas

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 20:47

Man, no contract is broken without payinf for it.

The brazilian president will speak saying that he save millions but behind scenes he will pay the full debt that will be hidden due to the fact that Petrobras will have a huge profit this year.

#5059 Muz Bee

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 23:46

Jacques Villeneuve believes McLaren would be fighting Red Bull if not for Renault PUs.

https://www.gpblog.c...s-engines-.html

Personally I think it's a very very bold claim.

Jacques voice is not one to be taken that seriously. Like - how would he know the relative outputs of the two PUs?

The more I have dwelt on the matter of counting on (a) the new 2021 regs , and (b) the gains of going to Merc PUs, the more I think Seidl needs to not count on redemption from either factor to any great degree. In other words, a gain of 1.5 seconds will need to be made largelyby McLaren’s own making.

(a) the new regs look like being so watered down if they even get passed by the end of this month that the effects will be more the usual reshuffling of the cards at the inception of a new technical era - in other words changes appear more random.

(b) will Mercedes actually provide all data in areas like fully implementing “party mode” for its customer teams? Like the results will be - all Mercedes teams will have equal PUs but one will be more equal than the others.

In my opinion McLaren will need to cut the margin to the fastest to significantly under 1 second (per lap) next season to have a chance at challenging for wins on merit in 2021. To find a net gain of 0.5 is possible, significantly more is stretching credulity a bit. The law of diminishing returns is always in play in F1 and obviously the gains this year were over a pretty flawed MCL33. The early start on 36 is encouraging but with so much about those new regs still up in the air how much can be achieved? Also the results of a state of the art wind tunnel are still three years away at minimum. We need to keep our hopes and ambitions realistic while savouring an encouraging return from where the team were.

Edited by Muz Bee, 19 October 2019 - 23:48.


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#5060 CPR

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 13:16

Jacques voice is not one to be taken that seriously. Like - how would he know the relative outputs of the two PUs?


Particularly since he tends to go for sensationalism. In terms of pure performance, I suspect the Merc PU would be worth a few tenths, perhaps more so in the race. However, in terms of delivering points via reliability, it likely has a significant advantage.

 

The more I have dwelt on the matter of counting on (a) the new 2021 regs , and (b) the gains of going to Merc PUs, the more I think Seidl needs to not count on redemption from either factor to any great degree. In other words, a gain of 1.5 seconds will need to be made largelyby McLaren’s own making.


And he's said this too.

 

(a) the new regs look like being so watered down if they even get passed by the end of this month that the effects will be more the usual reshuffling of the cards at the inception of a new technical era - in other words changes appear more random.


The most important thing for McLaren is the financial regulations with the cost cap. That's fixed already. The rest is gravy, basically.

 

(b) will Mercedes actually provide all data in areas like fully implementing “party mode” for its customer teams? Like the results will be - all Mercedes teams will have equal PUs but one will be more equal than the others.

In my opinion McLaren will need to cut the margin to the fastest to significantly under 1 second (per lap) next season to have a chance at challenging for wins on merit in 2021. To find a net gain of 0.5 is possible, significantly more is stretching credulity a bit. The law of diminishing returns is always in play in F1 and obviously the gains this year were over a pretty flawed MCL33. The early start on 36 is encouraging but with so much about those new regs still up in the air how much can be achieved? Also the results of a state of the art wind tunnel are still three years away at minimum. We need to keep our hopes and ambitions realistic while savouring an encouraging return from where the team were.


It seems they're working quite hard though of course they can never be sure how much the other teams will gain. The general impression I'm getting is: leave no stone unturned, if it works improve it, if it doesn't work redesign it. I get the sense that they're willing to take modest risks and are being aggressive. Whether they get the balance right, we'll have to wait and see.

 

And yeah it's going to be hard! To achieve their targets they're going to have to make about as big a net gain on the top 3 this winter as they did last winter! If the top 3 don't improve much at all that should be very achievable. If the top 3 all make big gains then that'll be much harder (ie pretty much impossible).



#5061 New Britain

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 13:53

Particularly since he tends to go for sensationalism. In terms of pure performance, I suspect the Merc PU would be worth a few tenths, perhaps more so in the race. However, in terms of delivering points via reliability, it likely has a significant advantage.

 


And he's said this too.

 


The most important thing for McLaren is the financial regulations with the cost cap. That's fixed already. The rest is gravy, basically.

 


It seems they're working quite hard though of course they can never be sure how much the other teams will gain. The general impression I'm getting is: leave no stone unturned, if it works improve it, if it doesn't work redesign it. I get the sense that they're willing to take modest risks and are being aggressive. Whether they get the balance right, we'll have to wait and see.

 

And yeah it's going to be hard! To achieve their targets they're going to have to make about as big a net gain on the top 3 this winter as they did last winter! If the top 3 don't improve much at all that should be very achievable. If the top 3 all make big gains then that'll be much harder (ie pretty much impossible).

"Fixed" as in settled, not necessarily fixed as in a completely level playing field, even for McLaren.

I am sure that, before the cost cap comes into effect, the rich teams will throw as much money as possible into developing the optimal car for 2021 and beyond. Also, the cost cap excludes a number of items, some of them substantial. I expect that on a gross basis Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull will continue to be able to exploit their financial advantages over all the other teams, although to a lesser extent than at present.



#5062 CPR

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 16:13

Sorry for not posting this in a while but here's the quali trends:
i-ZC4sTqT.png

This is from the last 21 races so we can see the comparison to last year. Naturally there's a lot of circuit to circuit variability. I'll update the race pace charts later on - going to try to see if I can write some code to auto-detect SC/VSC periods since it's quite a pain doing it manually.

Also, here's the average year-on-year quali improvements:
Team         Quali (%)
Williams      -0.21
Racing Point   0.39
Ferrari        0.39
Haas           0.46
Mercedes       0.49
Red Bull       0.51
Renault        0.78
Toro Rosso     1.09
Alfa           1.19
McLaren        1.69
 



#5063 Quickshifter

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 16:46

2020 and 2021 regulations will be massively different so a jump in 2020 does not guarantee that the feat can be repeated. Only some of the aerodynamic concepts can be carried over. The biggest change will be the 18 inch tyres. Mechanically the car will have a massively different template. Aerodynamics depends a lot on the mechanical platform to work effectively. Majority of the teams will be focusing on 2021. There is not a lot that can be carried over from 2020 car. MCL36 will have an all new engine with a different layout, 18 inch wheels, totally different suspension, different wheelbase etc etc.

 

Mclaren want to have solid processes, tools, and correlation in place before 2021 which is what the team will focus on as not much is transferable on to the next car. Yes there will be ways in which budget cap can be circumvented by top three but at least they won't be able to do it as brazenly as they do now. With a Mercedes engine which has impeccable reliability and has been the benchmark in the turbo v6 era until this year, i expect Mclaren to start 2021 season definitely closer to the top three than they are now.


Edited by Quickshifter, 20 October 2019 - 16:50.


#5064 Mc_Silver

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 16:54

I wish they started building the new wind tunnel few years ago but better late than never!

#5065 MirNyet

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 12:26

Sorry for not posting this in a while but here's the quali trends:
i-ZC4sTqT.png

This is from the last 21 races so we can see the comparison to last year. Naturally there's a lot of circuit to circuit variability. I'll update the race pace charts later on - going to try to see if I can write some code to auto-detect SC/VSC periods since it's quite a pain doing it manually.

Also, here's the average year-on-year quali improvements:
Team         Quali (%)
Williams      -0.21
Racing Point   0.39
Ferrari        0.39
Haas           0.46
Mercedes       0.49
Red Bull       0.51
Renault        0.78
Toro Rosso     1.09
Alfa           1.19
McLaren        1.69
 

 

McLaren seems to be clearly best of the rest for the last 3 races based on these charts.  Also, and somewhat more interestingly in some respects, whenever power is more of a factor, McLaren appears to be closer to Red Bull.



#5066 LightningMcQueen

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 13:33

I wish they started building the new wind tunnel few years ago but better late than never!


On the positive side tech is always inproving so the latest and greatest will be an advantage sooner or later

#5067 CPR

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 13:54

"Fixed" as in settled, not necessarily fixed as in a completely level playing field, even for McLaren.

I am sure that, before the cost cap comes into effect, the rich teams will throw as much money as possible into developing the optimal car for 2021 and beyond. Also, the cost cap excludes a number of items, some of them substantial. I expect that on a gross basis Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull will continue to be able to exploit their financial advantages over all the other teams, although to a lesser extent than at present.

 

Seidl has said that he expects the top 3 to carry their infrastructure and other advantages into 2021. And I'd certainly agree with him - I think the only chance we'd have of beating the "top 3" in 2021 if they all make major mistakes or miss major performance opportunities, which is rather unlikely. However, once the new wind tunnel becomes fully functional for real development and once the cost cap starts to bite it should level things somewhat, I would hope. Of course, that is in terms of "opportunity" - it'd still be up to the team to do a good job in terms of development.

 

While the cost cap does exclude some items, with the exception of the highest level employees, it's not the sort of thing that makes a big difference to the actual underlying performance of the car. The top 3 are definitely going to be feeling the cost cap.

 

I guess you could break down the 2021 regs into 3 main groups: cost reduction/cap, improved overtaking, reduced gap between front and back of the field (ie through more standardised parts, more prescriptive regulations).

 

The cost cap clearly helps McLaren against the top 3. It won't put them on an equal footing though (but should trend that way). Probably hurts them little if not at all against minor teams. A big win basically.

 

The aero regs to help overtaking probably help McLaren slightly as they have tended to have better race pace than quali pace.

 

The regs to help reduce the gaps between front and back are probably a bit of a mixed bag. Should help chances of getting a "lucky" good result but also means that can be used against us.

 

If the 2021 regs do make overtaking easier then race pace will become much more important for overall results and quali performance less. Which in turn means that PU performance during the race will likely become a bigger differentiator, particularly if the other regs are successful in terms of reducing gap between front and back of the field.



#5068 SparkPlug86

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 14:39

If the 2021 regs do make overtaking easier then race pace will become much more important for overall results and quali performance less. Which in turn means that PU performance during the race will likely become a bigger differentiator, particularly if the other regs are successful in terms of reducing gap between front and back of the field.

 

Interesting thought on this. With the current trend in F1 in close quarters combat to be a bit more contact driven, I'd argue that we will see quite a few accidents and broken wings in 2021. Thus, drivers who can keep themselves out of trouble, might be a key factor.



#5069 Clatter

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 14:42

Interesting thought on this. With the current trend in F1 in close quarters combat to be a bit more contact driven, I'd argue that we will see quite a few accidents and broken wings in 2021. Thus, drivers who can keep themselves out of trouble, might be a key factor.

 


If the contact keeps happening through 2020, then the FIA might start cracking down again.

#5070 CPR

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 15:10

Interesting thought on this. With the current trend in F1 in close quarters combat to be a bit more contact driven, I'd argue that we will see quite a few accidents and broken wings in 2021. Thus, drivers who can keep themselves out of trouble, might be a key factor.

 

I think in general the 2021 regs will take drivers some time to adjust to. For example, under the current regs many drivers are very aggressive on the opening laps, knowing they won't have much opportunities otherwise. However, if it does in fact become significantly easier to overtake during the race then there'll be less value in desperate lunges in the early laps and trying to optimise overall race pace will be more important.

 

But for sure, the closer the racing is and the greater the opportunity for overtaking, the more importance there will be on drivers who can keep their nose clean, both in defensive driving and aggressive driving.

 

Edit: getting things a bit more on-topic... in terms of how car design can affect all this, the more predictable the car is the better. Eg, stability under breaking, dealing with curbs/bumps and overall consistency.


Edited by CPR, 21 October 2019 - 15:13.


#5071 Clatter

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 15:16

I think in general the 2021 regs will take drivers some time to adjust to. For example, under the current regs many drivers are very aggressive on the opening laps, knowing they won't have much opportunities otherwise. However, if it does in fact become significantly easier to overtake during the race then there'll be less value in desperate lunges in the early laps and trying to optimise overall race pace will be more important.

 

But for sure, the closer the racing is and the greater the opportunity for overtaking, the more importance there will be on drivers who can keep their nose clean, both in defensive driving and aggressive driving.

 


The best opportunity to gain places will still be at the start, I can't see the drivers wasting a chance. to make up a place. If they wait expecting an easier chance, then the competition could be getting away from them, and that chance may not materialize or it could be several laps later.

#5072 Dennista

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 15:32

Seidl has said that he expects the top 3 to carry their infrastructure and other advantages into 2021. And I'd certainly agree with him - I think the only chance we'd have of beating the "top 3" in 2021 if they all make major mistakes or miss major performance opportunities, which is rather unlikely. However, once the new wind tunnel becomes fully functional for real development and once the cost cap starts to bite it should level things somewhat, I would hope. Of course, that is in terms of "opportunity" - it'd still be up to the team to do a good job in terms of development.

 

Don't be so sure status quo will remain. The pecking order almost always changes (within reason) after a major rule overhaul.

 

I will smell the air in Jerez in January testing 2021 and will let you know if we will break into the top 3.



#5073 New Britain

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 16:11

Seidl has said that he expects the top 3 to carry their infrastructure and other advantages into 2021. And I'd certainly agree with him - I think the only chance we'd have of beating the "top 3" in 2021 if they all make major mistakes or miss major performance opportunities, which is rather unlikely. However, once the new wind tunnel becomes fully functional for real development and once the cost cap starts to bite it should level things somewhat, I would hope. Of course, that is in terms of "opportunity" - it'd still be up to the team to do a good job in terms of development.

 

While the cost cap does exclude some items, with the exception of the highest level employees, it's not the sort of thing that makes a big difference to the actual underlying performance of the car. The top 3 are definitely going to be feeling the cost cap.

 

I guess you could break down the 2021 regs into 3 main groups: cost reduction/cap, improved overtaking, reduced gap between front and back of the field (ie through more standardised parts, more prescriptive regulations).

 

The cost cap clearly helps McLaren against the top 3. It won't put them on an equal footing though (but should trend that way). Probably hurts them little if not at all against minor teams. A big win basically.

 

The aero regs to help overtaking probably help McLaren slightly as they have tended to have better race pace than quali pace.

 

The regs to help reduce the gaps between front and back are probably a bit of a mixed bag. Should help chances of getting a "lucky" good result but also means that can be used against us.

 

If the 2021 regs do make overtaking easier then race pace will become much more important for overall results and quali performance less. Which in turn means that PU performance during the race will likely become a bigger differentiator, particularly if the other regs are successful in terms of reducing gap between front and back of the field.

Re the spending regs, yes, the top three will feel it more than any other team will do. Nonetheless I see the top three continuing, albeit to a lesser degree than at present, to exploit their financial advantage.

They will front-end load as many expenses as possible prior to Jan 1, 2021.

Drivers' salaries are excluded. Can you see Ferrari or Mercedes, each of which will have an extra maybe $150m to spend, paying Verstappen $50m/year to drive for them? I can. If Lando Norris is the real deal, could he be poached by one of the big three on the basis of money alone?

The top three employees are excluded. If there is a next Adrian Newey (or even the current Adrian Newey), he or she could treble his salary by switching to one of the big three.

Amortisation and depreciation are excluded. That says to me that a team could build the world's most sophisticated wind tunnel, multiple-post rigs, develop AI for chassis design (and thus reduce staff salary expenses) and goodness knows what else as capital costs and then depreciate them with no hit to their cost cap.

Powertrain development expense is excluded. Yes, there is an objective that all the PUs will be within 1% (or whatever it is) of each other, but that is probably measured by just peak power. A rich team could spend a huge amount to improve fuel economy, driveability, or reliability, all of which contribute to racing success even if at least the latter two cannot be quantified and thus not regulated.

So yes, it should be better, but that will be in the direction not of making it truly fair, just less unfair than it has been.



#5074 shure

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 16:19

Re the spending regs, yes, the top three will feel it more than any other team will do. Nonetheless I see the top three continuing, albeit to a lesser degree than at present, to exploit their financial advantage.

They will front-end load as many expenses as possible prior to Jan 1, 2021.

Drivers' salaries are excluded. Can you see Ferrari or Mercedes, each of which will have an extra maybe $150m to spend, paying Verstappen $50m/year to drive for them? I can. If Lando Norris is the real deal, could he be poached by one of the big three on the basis of money alone?

The top three employees are excluded. If there is a next Adrian Newey (or even the current Adrian Newey), he or she could treble his salary by switching to one of the big three.

Amortisation and depreciation are excluded. That says to me that a team could build the world's most sophisticated wind tunnel, multiple-post rigs, develop AI for chassis design (and thus reduce staff salary expenses) and goodness knows what else as capital costs and then depreciate them with no hit to their cost cap.

Powertrain development expense is excluded. Yes, there is an objective that all the PUs will be within 1% (or whatever it is) of each other, but that is probably measured by just peak power. A rich team could spend a huge amount to improve fuel economy, driveability, or reliability, all of which contribute to racing success even if at least the latter two cannot be quantified and thus not regulated.

So yes, it should be better, but that will be in the direction not of making it truly fair, just less unfair than it has been.

I' sceptical that the budget cap will affect much tbh.  Renault have already said they will have to increase spending just to hit it and by the time you take the PU development out of the figures as well as the driver salaries etc I'm wondering just how far over Mercedes and Ferrari actually are



#5075 CPR

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 16:20

The best opportunity to gain places will still be at the start, I can't see the drivers wasting a chance. to make up a place. If they wait expecting an easier chance, then the competition could be getting away from them, and that chance may not materialize or it could be several laps later.

 

For sure the early laps will be more important than average laps, as before. I'm just saying that they won't be as important as they are currently. Putting it another way, from a risk/reward point of view, the easier it is to overtake in general the less important it becomes to overtake in the early laps. For sure drivers will still be keen to overtake in the early laps, but we'll probably see fewer high risk overtakes in the early laps.

 

 

Don't be so sure status quo will remain. The pecking order almost always changes (within reason) after a major rule overhaul.

 

I will smell the air in Jerez in January testing 2021 and will let you know if we will break into the top 3.

 

I don't think we know where winter testing will take place in 2021 (or whether it'll be in January)...

 

But anyway, I suspect we're saying similar things but in different ways. The pecking order changes every year. Some years more than others. And a major regulation change gives a much greater chance for large changes in the pecking order. On the other hand, long term performance is proportional to the overall quality of the team (including drivers) and the package they produce, so there tends to be a revision to the mean.

 

So I wasn't arguing that McLaren wouldn't be able to break into the top 3. I was arguing that it's unlikely that they would beat all 3 of the current top teams. I've said this before but I think with the last major regulation changes (in 2017), McLaren did a very good job and in general I think they've been good at reacting to new regulations, unlike some top teams.



#5076 Muz Bee

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 20:58

So there’s loads of optimism about MCL34 being most competitive at Mexico. Is this historic, the altitude affecting ICU, or the altitude affecting aero?

Thanks CPR for the graphs - a mini trend developing last three races clearing the midfield.

Edited by Muz Bee, 21 October 2019 - 21:07.


#5077 BertoC

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 08:15

So there’s loads of optimism about MCL34 being most competitive at Mexico. Is this historic, the altitude affecting ICU, or the altitude affecting aero?
 

 

Historically Renault PU always do well here due to high altitude, or rather the difference in power is mitigated by the high altitude. It's also a fast track where everyone runs with high downforce (also because of thin air in high altitude) which is a Mclaren strong point.


Edited by BertoC, 22 October 2019 - 08:15.


#5078 mclarensmps

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 21:01

This also means that Red Bull will probably be extremely strong. So our relative performance to them may not change, but the relative performance to Mercedes and Ferrari might!



#5079 TomNokoe

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 21:19

1. Renault have been very strong at altitude for a few years now.

2. McLaren have solid downforce levels and a good handle on the tyres. Both points exaggerated in Mexico.

3. McLaren were already very strong in Austria and have made big strides since.

Edited by TomNokoe, 22 October 2019 - 21:19.


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#5080 CPR

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 22:27

This also means that Red Bull will probably be extremely strong. So our relative performance to them may not change, but the relative performance to Mercedes and Ferrari might!

 

If you're expecting a repeat of Hungary, I wouldn't count on it. It's not like the PU matters little at Mexico.

 

Anyway, we shall see. Renault powered cars have generally been strong there but I dunno if that pattern will continue this year.



#5081 Owen

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 07:32

Team preview; https://www.mclaren....can-gp-preview/



#5082 SparkPlug86

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 08:19

More to come for 2019, but team mostly working on 2020 as expected.

 

https://www.autospor...remaining-races



#5083 pizzalover

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 08:57

I' sceptical that the budget cap will affect much tbh.  Renault have already said they will have to increase spending just to hit it and by the time you take the PU development out of the figures as well as the driver salaries etc I'm wondering just how far over Mercedes and Ferrari actually are.

 

In which case, go back to unlimited testing. It makes no sense to restrict it with a cost cap in place. A team like Renault might well benefit from spending the difference on hiring out a track for a few extra days a year.



#5084 Quickshifter

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 09:05

More to come for 2019, but team mostly working on 2020 as expected.

 

https://www.autospor...remaining-races

AS/MS have published three or four stories with different headlines based on same quotes.



#5085 chhatra

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 10:09

AS/MS have published three or four stories with different headlines based on same quotes.


Well at least Zak is doing something to get coverage since the official feed barely features them.

#5086 SparkPlug86

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 10:36

Have you got the links?

#5087 Traction

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 12:05

AS/MS have published three or four stories with different headlines based on same quotes.

 

i also noticed that. made me wonder whether Mclaren are currently in negotiation with sponsors for next season....



#5088 mclarensmps

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 12:19

Well at least Zak is doing something to get coverage since the official feed barely features them.

 Zak stepped down from the motorsport network tho :p



#5089 Quickshifter

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 19:51

Decision is out: Both Renault have been disqualified from the race at Suzuka.

 

https://twitter.com/...090943494803457



#5090 Quickshifter

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 19:55

43 points ahead of Renault. 4th place in the championship is done and dusted in my opinion, barring a miracle. with that decision.  This will be Mclaren's highest constructors position in the last 7 years. 2012 they finished 3rd and after that never finished higher than 5th in the last 7 years.


Edited by Quickshifter, 23 October 2019 - 20:00.


#5091 Dennista

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 09:19

43 points ahead of Renault. 4th place in the championship is done and dusted in my opinion, barring a miracle. with that decision.  This will be Mclaren's highest constructors position in the last 7 years. 2012 they finished 3rd and after that never finished higher than 5th in the last 7 years.

 

 

4th should be our absolute worst at all times. Hopefully this dark era is behind us. Had to endure 6 years of it!



#5092 Muz Bee

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 16:48

RedBull have seemed to have lost their way of late, if MCL34 is as strong at Mexico maybe we can get amongst them. Then again even mid season every prediction of weak track/strong track seems to have been flawed. Maybe the Honda PU will get shown up here relative to Reno.

#5093 pup

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 17:22

RedBull have seemed to have lost their way of late, if MCL34 is as strong at Mexico maybe we can get amongst them. Then again even mid season every prediction of weak track/strong track seems to have been flawed. Maybe the Honda PU will get shown up here relative to Reno.

I think I read that the latest Honda engine had a specific update for high altitude.

#5094 TomNokoe

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 17:54

RedBull have seemed to have lost their way of late, if MCL34 is as strong at Mexico maybe we can get amongst them. Then again even mid season every prediction of weak track/strong track seems to have been flawed. Maybe the Honda PU will get shown up here relative to Reno.


Impossible

However I do think McLaren have been deliberately running below potential for quite a few races now.

#5095 SparkPlug86

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 19:13

I think RBR will come good this weekend. They've had some unlucky results and they went the wrong way on set up on Singapore... defo won't be racing them on pace. 



#5096 mclarensmps

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 21:02

It's traditionally a strong track for them. Expecting a Max win for three on the bounce, to be honest. 



#5097 Clatter

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 21:41

Impossible

However I do think McLaren have been deliberately running below potential for quite a few races now.

 


Why would they do that?

#5098 revmeister

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 21:47

Impossible

However I do think McLaren have been deliberately running below potential for quite a few races now.

 

How do you think they got that Merc engine deal? ;)



#5099 TomNokoe

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 23:07


Why would they do that?


Only by 0.2-0.3s

Because they want to bank points instead of push reliability.

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#5100 Clatter

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 23:15

Only by 0.2-0.3s

Because they want to bank points instead of push reliability.

Every team does that once the order has more or less been decided, but they are not going to deliberatly hold back if there is a chance to gain or maintain a position.