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McLaren Technical Thread (MCL34) Part 2


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#4601 ERICTOPF1

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 13:55

Whole team still on summer holidays



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#4602 Absulute

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 13:55

God damn it.



#4603 keshav

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 13:55

Horrible! Absolutely disgraceful!

#4604 BertoC

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 13:55

Well that's it. We'll miss those 10 points from Spa, that's for sure.



#4605 loki0420

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 13:56

F***ing christ. Have we lost our mojo? Unbelievable.

#4606 propercare

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 13:57

Of course on the track where Renault will get maximum points, our operations fail in worst possible moment.

#4607 keshav

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 13:58

Norris will get a point!

#4608 registered

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 13:59

Norris didn't pit yet?

Edited by registered, 08 September 2019 - 13:59.


#4609 DanardiF1

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 13:59

Remember when Toro Rosso suddenly started to get the worst luck possible engine-wise when Renault were trying to reel them in in the WCC a few seasons ago? Could something similar be happening here...



#4610 Stonk

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:00

Remember when Toro Rosso suddenly started to get the worst luck possible engine-wise when Renault were trying to reel them in in the WCC a few seasons ago? Could something similar be happening here...

 

Renault aren't responsible for putting the wheels on properly...



#4611 DanardiF1

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:01

Renault aren't responsible for putting the wheels on properly...

 

Maybe their tentacles are spreading haha



#4612 mclarensmps

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:03

Remember when Toro Rosso suddenly started to get the worst luck possible engine-wise when Renault were trying to reel them in in the WCC a few seasons ago? Could something similar be happening here...

 

It was a wheel gun failure lol


Edited by mclarensmps, 08 September 2019 - 14:03.


#4613 DanardiF1

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:04

It was a wheel gun failure lol

 

I know, I wasn't being entirely serious don't worry



#4614 mclarensmps

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:07

Kind of annoying how Renault are having their strongest race when Vettel and Verstappen have been tripping over themselves :/



#4615 keshav

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:08

I hope Singapore is better. The 4th place is under threat!

#4616 DanardiF1

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:08

Kind of annoying how Renault are having their strongest race when Vettel and Verstappen have been tripping over themselves :/

 

I know McLaren weren't expecting these two races to be their best, but there's been really good chances taken away by annoying little things, hopefully the bad luck is used up for now and the next races are better...



#4617 ERICTOPF1

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:10

Only hope the hard tyres to save the day somehow



#4618 CPR

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:33

That was rather embarrassing. Everyone makes mistakes but that was fairly costly. Our race pace wasn't that great either.

 

Very different tracks going forwards. Kinda hoping for normal service to be resumed.



#4619 propercare

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:35

It's funny how Renault got really better after the spec C engine. One would think that the engine was developed specifically for that car.

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#4620 BertoC

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:36

16 easy points lost in 2 races while Renault managed 26. At this rate we'll loose 4th.

 

Edit: Congrats to Renault though, today they were easily 4th.


Edited by BertoC, 08 September 2019 - 14:37.


#4621 propercare

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:37

Our race pace wasn't that great either.


Sainz was matching Hulks pace after the damaged parts fell off

#4622 keshav

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:40

Hoping for a better Singapore.



#4623 jwill189

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:41

That was rather embarrassing. Everyone makes mistakes but that was fairly costly. Our race pace wasn't that great either.

 

Very different tracks going forwards. Kinda hoping for normal service to be resumed.

 

Amateur hour by McLaren today.  We'll see if if Renault's new found pace will translate to the slower stuff.



#4624 TomNokoe

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:41

What a disaster!

#4625 Quickshifter

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:42

10 points lost last week because of engine failure which wasn't in our hands but loosing  8 points because of a shambolic pit stop today is hard to digest. Formula 1 is all about maximizing everything. Shows the team still has a lot of work to do on all fronts.


Edited by Quickshifter, 08 September 2019 - 14:46.


#4626 Lerdes

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:44

Maybe they switched to early to 2020... Car was not that fast and it seemed it's getting slower on the straights with ervery update.

#4627 TheMessiah

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:46

Very poor 2 races for us. I have avoided this thread since the heartbreak of Spa on the final lap. We need to get it together and get it together fast.



#4628 BertoC

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 14:48

Maybe they switched to early to 2020... Car was not that fast and it seemed it's getting slower on the straights with ervery update.

Rear wing was huge compared with most, especially Renault and RB. It was a loosing battle from the start. Hopefully normality will resume in standard circuits.

#4629 Joseki

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:20

Sainz's wrong stop DNFd him from the race and also send Norris back in the pack.

There was the potential for a P6 and P8 probably, but oh well. Mistakes were going to happen at some point.

#4630 SparkPlug86

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 15:56

Not a good race for us, but at least we got a point. I don’t think this reflects our pace, these past two races have been decent for Renault but I think now we go back to more ‘normal’ tracks we’ll start to pull away again in the points.

#4631 SwadF1

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 16:16

Man the team is going backwards again.

#4632 Lerdes

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 16:16

Not a good race for us, but at least we got a point. I don’t think this reflects our pace, these past two races have been decent for Renault but I think now we go back to more ‘normal’ tracks we’ll start to pull away again in the points.


I think Mclaren must be good on all kinds of tracks. That's a good car has to be made of. Would be my goal if I were in the position to decide...

#4633 BertoC

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 16:31

Man the team is going backwards again.

 

Is it though? They had a huge mistake in the pits, yeah, but in Spa they were easy 4th in the race, and today the difference was the Renault that was faster. In my view it was a step up from Renault, not a step down from Mclaren.

 

Anyway, this weekend felt very, very similar to Canada. Poor Q3 yesterday, very fast Renaults and a bunch of bad luck for our drivers. Let's hope the team manages to get a string of good results like they did after Canada.



#4634 McLaren1702

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 16:38

Man the team is going backwards again.


Misfortune struck twice in a row now, but at both times we were in competitive positions where we haven't been consistently for the past few years. We'll bounce back!

#4635 MirNyet

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 17:33

Well, I was wrong about the Renaults eating their tires - what do I know eh?  Clown shoes from McLaren however, anyone who thought that 4th place was in the bag needs to seriously reconsider.



#4636 HP

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 17:45

Rear wing was huge compared with most, especially Renault and RB. It was a loosing battle from the start. Hopefully normality will resume in standard circuits.

Why would they use such a 'huge' wing?



#4637 Kershy

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 17:52

Still believe 4th is safe, Renault's best tracks have gone now and its not like we weren't competitive in either Spa or Monza, just unlucky but these things happen, at least good work was done in the 1st half of the season so when these things do happen we still have a buffer in the championship. McLaren's best result of the season will come before the end of the season.



#4638 ERICTOPF1

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 20:56

https://www.mclaren....ian-grand-prix/

 

"We don’t have a tailored low-downforce package but the team has worked very hard with the tools they had available, and in both events we could’ve scored good points"



#4639 CPR

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 21:04

https://www.mclaren....ian-grand-prix/

 

"We don’t have a tailored low-downforce package but the team has worked very hard with the tools they had available, and in both events we could’ve scored good points"

 

I was just about to comment on that too. Yeah, I guess something like that would have been handy for Baku, Canada and Monza... but probably better to put main focus on the core package.



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#4640 Muz Bee

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 01:51

Circumstance and other horrible stuff! At least the pace wasn't terrible. Hats off to Renault today as they nailed it and were much quicker in qualifying and a tenth or two quicker on race pace. Wheel gun failure (or operator error) happens to even the best teams but the system should prevent incorrect despatch. Carlos was heading for a sure footed 6th today which would have been OK other than losing ground to Renault. Straight line speed looked OK relative to Merc and Honda cars and it isn't quite time to panic. I reckon Singapore should be better ground for the car's characteristics. I am concerned at qualifying confidence especially Carlos who is struggling a bit in this area.



#4641 SwadF1

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 02:32

Why is everyone thinking Singapore will be better. Wasn't everyone talking that spa and monza would suit the car. Singapore would have plenty of slow corners no ?

#4642 Nobody

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 03:34

Why is everyone thinking Singapore will be better. Wasn't everyone talking that spa and monza would suit the car. Singapore would have plenty of slow corners no ?

 

I think the general impression was that the car's straight-line was it's greatest strength but as Monza and Canada showed maybe Renault do shade us in that dept. 

And Spa did suit us in fact, in race trim Lando was clear of the midfield and cruising.

 

This car may not be as 'slippery' as we thought, but a good all rounder in fact, and if we didn't have the Renault disaster in Spa and the own goal at Monza the tone would be different around here, imagine if we finished both cars at both race but never competed for points at all - that would have been a much much bigger concern.



#4643 Oblivion

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 06:49

Can't it be the case that we had a setup more towards possible wet race?



#4644 kumo7

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 07:25

Could be. 

 

I think that the team wil get back from this point. They must be.



#4645 BertoC

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 08:10

Why is everyone thinking Singapore will be better. Wasn't everyone talking that spa and monza would suit the car. Singapore would have plenty of slow corners no ?

 

I think it's more like... do you think Monza (and Spa and Canada) with it's low drag non standard aero package is more of an outlier or should be seen as the default? Is a fast Renault and a fast Ferrari the standard? In Singapore everybody will be back to their usual aero packages so I think Mercedes will be faster again, Ferrari will be behind Red Bull again, and more important Renault will not be as fast as Spa and Monza.

 

In any case, this double weekend was the low point of the season for Mclaren at least for now. But was Mclaren that slow? I think we are exactly were we always are in relation to the top 3 and the midfield bar Renault. Renault it's always the variable, sometimes fast, slow most of the times. Even with relatively slow weekends (and Spa was not slow on sunday) the team would have easily kept close to the 10 point per race average, with the 5th in Spa and most likely a 7th and 10th in Monza (I think Albon would have passed Carlos). We could have close to 100 points now, we aren't not due to slow pace, but outside factors.

 

Edit: I think everybody expected these low drag races to favour us cause the MCL34 is a kinda low drag slippery car in normal conditions and normal high downforce circuits. What we didn't expect was the fact the team didn't bring a low drag package to this double weekend for some reason. We are usually in the top of the speed traps, but here, with our bigger rear wing we were down in the order.

 

Now the question is, why did the team think it would not be necessary to develop a low drag package? No money? Did they thought it was not worth the effort (and in the end they were kinda right seeing that we would have scored the usual points)?


Edited by BertoC, 09 September 2019 - 08:17.


#4646 CPR

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 12:45

Now the question is, why did the team think it would not be necessary to develop a low drag package? No money? Did they thought it was not worth the effort (and in the end they were kinda right seeing that we would have scored the usual points)?

 

I'm just guessing but perhaps from a development strategy point of view, it was something like this: In general, if you had infinite time and budget and testing, you could have a different design for every circuit, each one perfectly optimised for it. But that's obviously not practical so you have a general concept with different configurations instead. They started off the year with a "medium" DF configuration and added low and high DF configs later on. They might have debated how much value there was in having a super low DF config. Perhaps they felt that it was hard to be sure how much benefit there would be and instead decided to focus resources on the three main configs. ie it was not that they couldn't have done it but felt that their time/money was better spent elsewhere (focusing on the core design that than edge cases).
 
Bear in mind that McLaren had to start the year with what's roughly a new concept while other teams could mostly evolve their designs (apart from the parts directly affected by the regulation changes), so everything would have to be re-optimised around it. Next year, they'll be evolving the concept so for low/medium/high configs, this year would be the baseline and they could then choose to develop a super low DF config. From a cost/benefit point of view, it would probably be more useful to do that compared to this year, though it might depend upon other things like how well the overall package is working in different configurations, how the tyres are behaving etc etc.
 
But like I said, I'm just guessing. For high DF circuits, you really need that DF for sure. For circuits like Monza, it's perhaps a bit more debatable and largely you don't know until you try.
 
Anyway... looking ahead, pretty much all of the upcoming circuits are medium or high DF circuits so things are going to be rather different. For Singapore, it's a night race like Bahrain where we went really well, and we also went really well at Hungary. So maybe we should be fine but predicting performance this year has really been hard. I don't remember it ever being this hard!


#4647 McLaren1702

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 13:19

Andreas Seidl to MARCA about the rest of the season and the MCL34's development compared to next year's MCL35:

https://www.marca.co...d44f8b4589.html
 

“McLaren won’t push the MCL34 to fight for 4th place.
 

It’s clear for Andreas Seidl. ‘I won’t compromise the development of the 2020 car for this year’s car, next year’s car is very important for us’, is what he said after the race at Monza after getting only one small point while maintaining the 4th position in the WCC even though Renault took a bite out of their advantage in Italy. Now only 18 points separate the two teams and finishing 4th or 5th could mean millions for McLaren, which they desperately need.
 

But for the German, what’s important is important, and actually many employees of the English team are already working on the MCL35, yet he guarantees that McLaren will fight for fourth even with the already realised improvements, and they won’t move a muscle even if Renault tightens up on them. ‘We’ll at least bring small improvements for the following two or three races and from there on out it’s all open’, is what the team principal told MARCA.

‘Obviously we want to fight for that fourth place with everything we can but we can’t compromise next season by focussing again on this one. There already is a plan for what we want for this season and another for next season and we will stick to that. These two races were a step back compared to before the summer break, but these things happen, it is part of the sport’.

Taking into account that Renault’s Spec C engine did not really bring a lot of improvement, and is only slightly better in reliability and performance, Carlos Sainz will have to fight with less weapons, although he hopes for some hoorays and at least also in Japan. ‘I think we will stay in the fight for this position until the end. We do not know which circuits suit us because in Hungary we thought it would not and we were the fourth car, it is complicated this year, but also for the others.’”

 

 



#4648 CPR

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 16:54

Andreas Seidl to MARCA about the rest of the season and the MCL34's development compared to next year's MCL35:

https://www.marca.co...d44f8b4589.html
 

  

Interesting comments.

 

Certainly it is dangerous to change your development plan, particularly in the current situation. Normally, there wouldn't be a huge risk to do this but with the big changes in 2021, I wouldn't be surprised if all teams (or all except the "big 3") heavily front-load their developments next year. ie there'll be few upgrades during the season and instead all the focus will quickly be on 2021. If not for that then they could maybe afford to juggle things around a bit more. So yeah, 2021 is already affecting 2019 car development! (Well, at least that's how I see it).

 

Anyway, I see no reason to panic. If we hadn't have had those issues we would have scored a decent amount of points the last two races. The points haul isn't reflective of our competitiveness. Not having any more bad luck or not making any avoidable mistakes will likely give us more points than a tenth or two from developments.



#4649 Quickshifter

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 18:45

Seidl's comments clearly suggest Mclaren have a large percentage of resources dedicated to 2020 car. They have not brought many upgrades post summer break and this correlates with Mclaren's strategy. The lack of a specific low downforce package is a disadvantage but the team clearly have decided to focus on MCL35, first car under James Key's leadership. So many points have been thrown down the drain this season because of engine issues, reliability issues, accidents, bad luck  and the latest being pit stop error.  If the team wants to close the gap to top 3 they have to maximize their chances every weekend by avoiding silly errors, getting on top of reliability issues and hope Renault will be able top improve their PU reliability as well.

 

The car has good aero efficiency in medium downforce trim  and consequently good straight line performance in this configuration. From 2021 onwards i hope the team will be able to afford developing packages for different downforce trims cos that is what top teams do. The team is still regrouping after a woeful 2018 and i hope they will be able to stretch their legs come 2021.


Edited by Quickshifter, 09 September 2019 - 18:46.


#4650 pup

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 19:08

I suppose that they could have reverted to a package from earlier in the year when the car was more slippery but had less downforce.  Perhaps it would have been too much trouble or maybe even impossible to do that.  Or perhaps it's evidence that the downforce they've added throughout the season hasn't increased drag enough to have made that switch advantageous.