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McLaren Technical Thread (MCL34) Part 2


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#4651 CPR

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 19:16

I suppose that they could have reverted to a package from earlier in the year when the car was more slippery but had less downforce.  Perhaps it would have been too much trouble or maybe even impossible to do that.  Or perhaps it's evidence that the downforce they've added throughout the season hasn't increased drag enough to have made that switch advantageous.

 

Yeah. Some aero parts have quite a direct relationship between drag and downforce - like the RW. Some are more about cleaning up the airflow or the like - ie they don't produce downforce directly. So, the parts they trimmed back were more the former rather than the latter... is what I would guess.



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#4652 Muz Bee

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 22:21

The MCL34 picture is less clear since the break but Renault PU does appear to have legs to match MB and shade the Honda. This was evident at various times during the Monza race - when Bottas was lapping Norris and the Renaults before their stops when passed by Hamilton - there was a straight line parity between the Mercedes and the Renault powered cars, unthinkable at the beginning of the year.

With regards the slipperiness of our package it does look this has been compromised since Austria (slow medium) where Sainz blew past everyone in the midfield. Silverstone (medium fast) the car looked like it was dragging a barn door just two weeks later but come Spa (fast) and the car in race trim looked back on form probably gained through the slower S3.

I think the flurry of three retirements in two races has shaken us up - at least the car has reasonable race pace heading into some slower circuits. Fixing reliability issues is easier than finding speed. I still think the team is in good shape to nail 4th in WCC.

#4653 New Britain

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 23:38

Andreas Seidl to MARCA about the rest of the season and the MCL34's development compared to next year's MCL35:

https://www.marca.co...d44f8b4589.html
 

One thing: the writer says that the difference between finishing in P4 and in P5 in WCC is worth "many millions". The difference in money is actually about $3m. That's not nothing, but in F1 terms it is not meaningful.



#4654 CPR

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 00:19

One thing: the writer says that the difference between finishing in P4 and in P5 in WCC is worth "many millions". The difference in money is actually about $3m. That's not nothing, but in F1 terms it is not meaningful.

 

Yup. Though they might get bonus payouts from sponsors too...



#4655 New Britain

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 07:15

Yup. Though they might get bonus payouts from sponsors too...

Could be, although rather than prescribed bonuses I think the upside would be in getting new sponsors, encouraging existing sponsors to buy larger packages, and of course the enhanced credibility and motivating effect for the team, retaining/attracting staff, solidifying commitment from shareholders, slightly better choice of pit location, et al.



#4656 CPR

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 15:00

With regards the slipperiness of our package it does look this has been compromised since Austria (slow medium) where Sainz blew past everyone in the midfield. Silverstone (medium fast) the car looked like it was dragging a barn door just two weeks later but come Spa (fast) and the car in race trim looked back on form probably gained through the slower S3.

 

Personally, I'd say that Austria is closer to Spa, both of which were good for us in race pace.

 

Austria has some "slow" corners, but even the slowest is not especially slow and the faster corners tend to be quite long and sweeping. The hot temperatures in Austria also seemed to help us.



#4657 Dennista

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 15:50

Renault must deliver something decent next season otherwise strike a customer deal with Mercedes with view of being the subordinate to knock off Ferrari from the front. I would take that, a double podium yes please. We need some grunt!


Edited by Dennista, 10 September 2019 - 15:51.


#4658 New Britain

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 17:24

Personally, I'd say that Austria is closer to Spa, both of which were good for us in race pace.

 

Austria has some "slow" corners, but even the slowest is not especially slow and the faster corners tend to be quite long and sweeping. The hot temperatures in Austria also seemed to help us.

And the cool temperatures of Spa seemed to help us! :drunk:



#4659 rootten

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 12:21

Renault must deliver something decent next season otherwise strike a customer deal with Mercedes with view of being the subordinate to knock off Ferrari from the front. I would take that, a double podium yes please. We need some grunt!

 

:lol:

 

Yeah, engine is holding McLaren back 

 

What's about Red Bull winning with subpar Renault engine over past few years?



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#4660 CPR

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 13:18

Right now, the Merc engine seems to be improving the least. Perhaps it's still the best overall for the race but for how much longer?

 

I doubt it'll happen but if Renault's PU team make as big a step over the next 12 months as they had over the last 12 months they'd probably be ahead of Merc in terms of performance.

 

With things as they are now, I think we'd need quite a strong reason to swap engine suppliers.

 

In short, most of the gap to the front is for McLaren to solve.



#4661 kumo7

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 22:34

 Not quite sure how it goes, but I got this feeling that the team is working on 2020 car, rather than aiming to take 3rd this year. 

This is to say the situation before the summer. Now, I guess a bit of stimulus is coming from Renault team.

I, still say, that am impressed with the way Renault treat its team on equal foot tho.

Fair rating is good. That is what I want to see.



#4662 mclarensmps

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 23:38

With this PU as it is, an RB-like Chassis should be able to deliver podiums at the very least on occasion. I'm happy with the PU. Let's improve the car. Once McLaren is back to making front running chassis, we can start picking on the PU if needs be. At the moment, the team is still a ways away. 

Seidl is saying all the right things. I'm quietly confident about the future. 



#4663 FNG

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 23:39

 Not quite sure how it goes, but I got this feeling that the team is working on 2020 car, rather than aiming to take 3rd this year. 

This is to say the situation before the summer. Now, I guess a bit of stimulus is coming from Renault team.

I, still say, that am impressed with the way Renault treat its team on equal foot tho.

Fair rating is good. That is what I want to see.

I sure hope they are working on 2020, they don't have a chance in hell at 3rd so that would be a stupid reason not to be starting 2020 car.



#4664 rootten

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 08:36

I sure hope they are working on 2020, they don't have a chance in hell at 3rd so that would be a stupid reason not to be starting 2020 car.

 

This all seems strange to me. There are no rule changes for next season. If they are not working on a new concept of a car then why wouldn't  they develop current car? If they are working on a new concept then why would they put so much resources just for one season? 



#4665 jensfan09

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:38

This all seems strange to me. There are no rule changes for next season. If they are not working on a new concept of a car then why wouldn't they develop current car? If they are working on a new concept then why would they put so much resources just for one season?


I don’t think they are working on a whole new concept as it will be an evolution of this year, but probably the design of the 2020 car is different enough that the ideas wouldn’t work on the 2019 car. Although we have seen them testing suspension components which could be for the 2020 car.

#4666 MirNyet

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:46

This all seems strange to me. There are no rule changes for next season. If they are not working on a new concept of a car then why wouldn't  they develop current car? If they are working on a new concept then why would they put so much resources just for one season? 

 

Firstly, not everything for the new car will be usable on the current car, suspension or internal layout, radiator, gearbox designs, etc. will certainly not be interchangeable.  Secondly, 'So much resources'?  It's quite usual at this point in the year for the majority of the design effort to be on next years car, I don't see anything odd with updates scaling off now, it's quite normal.  



#4667 CPR

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 12:08

McLaren will be bringing upgrades in the next couple of races - this was confirmed by Seidl. They're probably bringing more than the other midfield teams at least.

 

While the MCL35 will be an evolution that doesn't mean there won't be non-trivial changes. For example, they might well have a rather different FW, which will of course have side-effects on the rest of the car, some parts more than others. So the parts of the car they're likely bringing upgrades to now are likely parts that they're pretty sure won't need to change next year or can be upgraded with relatively little R&D.

 

While the regulations aren't changing next year they're changing massively in 2021. Which likely means all (or most) teams will be entirely focused on the 2021 car from early on in 2020. Putting it another way, most teams will probably bring only minor upgrades after winter testing and probably only to the first 5 or so races. Which means that, right now in 2019, if you want to start a R&D project to upgrade a particular part and it's estimated to require 6 months, then you have to be starting it right now (at the latest) otherwise it's too late.

 

You might ask, well, what if doing that work would provide a big benefit (getting 0.1s from a single part would probably be a lot), wouldn't it be better to do it anyway? The problem is that 2021 is a total reset. Meaning, most R&D on the 2020 won't be useful after 2020. Some parts will be largely unchanged, though until the regulations are finalised it's hard to be sure. The PU regulations aren't likely to change much so that region will probably be fairly stable and I'd imagine that a very tight engine cover will still matter in 2021, but perhaps the optimal shape will change a lot. In the end, what this means is any R&D for 2020 will only get a payoff for one season, but any R&D for 2021 will likely get a payoff across many seasons. Which means that it's actually quite rational to treat 2020 as something of a "throw away" season. Obviously, no team would intentionally harm their chances but what will likely happen in practice is that most teams will simply have to accept that their relative performance at the start of the year will likely be quite close to their relative performance at the end of the year and that the absolute performance of the cars won't change much. Those fighting for the championship might do something else, but for 7-8 teams, this is likely to be the case. In turn, this means that the current R&D work for the 2020 cars is critical - if it goes badly, you might as well write off your whole year. Nobody will even consider doing a B-spec car in 2020. Conversely, if 2020 development goes well then you're likely to have a very good year with little worry about others catching you.