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2019 F1 Media Driver Ratings


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#251 SophieB

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 16:47

That's a fair enough way to look it I guess. Perhaps I was looking too far the other way in that I was trying to just review how that driver drove on that day regardless of his normal talent. What that meant in my head was that Lewis got ratings that seemed too high because his performance level is almost always high and therefore even on races where he just seems to float towards the win, he is only doing that because he is driving so well. Howe can we directly compare a drive where someone starts in pole and drives off into the distance to the win, with someone who has to battle through the pack? Almost impossible to do that, but I do wish we could :)

 

You can't, really. Following all this to its logical conclusion, in theory it should get harder and harder for a driver to ever score 10s because each time he does so, the higher he is raising his own personal perceived baseline until only something truly Olympian is given maximum reward, 

 

I do think most reviewers do seem to hold some version of this though!



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#252 lbennie

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 00:45

Hulk did 15 laps with a failing car?

 

A failing car? it was a pretty sudden failure.

 

And yes, in that 15 laps Hulk lost a position, while Dan was extending the gap to him.

 

That was generally enough for you guys to give sundays to Max last year when Dan was retiring at the beginning of races  ;)


Edited by lbennie, 17 April 2019 - 00:46.


#253 Ragnar668

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 06:57

A failing car? it was a pretty sudden failure.

 

 

No, it wasn't 
https://www.motorspo...-china/4370726/

 

That’s why we were hoping to try and fix it in the course of the race. Maybe it was not broadcast, but there were a number of actions that Nico was trying to do



#254 A3

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 07:02

No, it wasn't 
https://www.motorspo...-china/4370726/
 
That’s why we were hoping to try and fix it in the course of the race. Maybe it was not broadcast, but there were a number of actions that Nico was trying to do

It was one lap.
https://streamable.com/5snuh (audio isn't synced correctly)

Seems someone forgot to program the ok button. :drunk:

Edited by A3, 17 April 2019 - 07:05.


#255 Ragnar668

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 07:16

It was one lap.
https://streamable.com/5snuh (audio isn't synced correctly)

Seems someone forgot to program the ok button. :drunk:

Check



#256 Heyli

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 07:32

It was one lap.
https://streamable.com/5snuh (audio isn't synced correctly)

Seems someone forgot to program the ok button. :drunk:

The programmer probably asked the mechanic, "is this button ok?"



#257 statman

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 10:47

Official F1 power ranking standings after China:

 

  1. Verstappen (-)
  2. Hamilton (+4)
  3. Albon (+4)
  4. Bottas (-2)
  5. Leclerc (-1)
  6. Hulkenberg (-2)
  7. Norris (-4)
  8. Raikkonen (+1)
  9. Perez (*)
  10. Russell (-1)

Edited by statman, 17 April 2019 - 10:48.


#258 Lights

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 10:59

I guess they'll drop Russell out of that list pretty soon as they'll run out of things to write about him.



#259 Gorma

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 13:38

It's amazing how what teammate a person has can affect perception.

Well Ferrari treated Kimi in the race like they did with Leclerc in Chinacmore often than not. Alfa isn't doing that.

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#260 Gorma

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 13:42

Well think about Bottas. If he wasn't in the same team with one of the absolutely best drivers ever, people would view him in a much more positive way.


It's amazing that people seem to think that unless you are constantly beating the GOAT you shouldn't have a seat in F1.

#261 sgtkate

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 09:31

 

Official F1 power ranking standings after China:

 

  1. Verstappen (-)
  2. Hamilton (+4)
  3. Albon (+4)
  4. Bottas (-2)
  5. Leclerc (-1)
  6. Hulkenberg (-2)
  7. Norris (-4)
  8. Raikkonen (+1)
  9. Perez (*)
  10. Russell (-1)

 

Actually that's a fairly reasonable list I'd say. That's not in a anyway linked to the drivers championship for once and I think those ratings are a fair reflection based on what we can tell and assess. Russell being at number 10 only seems odd because he keeps coming in almost last, but if you ignore the absolute position of the car and look at it relatively, I think most would agree he is outperforming his team mate consistently, driving clean weekends with no incidents of any sort and therefore that should be reflected in his ratings.



#262 autosportfan

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 10:49

That's because Vettel only spun in the later part of the season, not in race 2 already.

 

Kimi definitely performed better than Vettel this year. And regarding last few years: you see what happened with Leclerc when Ferrari gives you the B strategy.

 

The last Ferrari F1 world champion is Kimi.

 

The last Ferrari F1 race winner is ALSO Kimi!



#263 zanquis

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 12:08

oqxyyFp.png

 

Just for reference, how it was last your around this time:

u2eH12N.png

 

And I am not talking about how the colors have changed between last year.  :rotfl:



#264 statman

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 09:48

Azerbadjan

 

PlanetF1:
 
Perez: 9
Raikkonen: 9
Bottas: 9
Verstappen: 8
Hamilton: 8
Sainz: 8
Norris: 8
Stroll: 8
Russell: 7
Gasly: 7
Vettel: 7
Leclerc: 7
Albon: 6
Kvyat: 6
Giovinazzi: 6
Grosjean: 5
Magnussen: 5
Ricciardo: 5
Kubica: 5
Hulkenberg: 4
 
funny how they don't give Bottas a 10, if Ham would have these results...


#265 TomNokoe

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 09:57

What does Perez need to do to get a 10?

Bottas is a tough one, he was at the mercy of Hamilton all weekend. It was completely different to his Australia weekend. Should've lost pole, should've lost out at T1, but somehow held on. I'd be more inclined to give Bottas 9 and Hamilton 8.

Edited by TomNokoe, 29 April 2019 - 09:59.


#266 Ivanhoe

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 10:35

AMuS:
 
Bottas: 10
Hamilton: 9
Vettel: 8
Verstappen: 9
Leclerc: 5
Perez: 10
Sainz: 8
Norris: 8
Stroll: 6
Räikkönen: 8
Albon: 6
Givinazzi: 7
Magnussen: 6
Hülkenberg: 4
Russel: 6
Kubica: 4
Gasly: 6
Grosjean: 5
Kvyat: 7
Ricciardo: 5

#267 Retrofly

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 10:37

 

funny how they don't give Bottas a 10, if Ham would have these results...

 

I think Bottas would have got a 10 if he's stretched a comfortable lead ahead of Hamilton. I dont know how many times Ham didn't get a 10 for Pole/Win, would be interesting to know.



#268 Zilbert

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 10:41

Kimi 9 - Gio 6 is a quite a bit unfair IMO. 8 - 7 would be more true though neither driver had a straightforward weekend so its not easy to assess. So i am going with AMUS on this one. 


Edited by Zilbert, 29 April 2019 - 10:42.


#269 Konsta

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 11:06

AMuS quite harsh on Leclerc even though he didn´t actually set the world on fire yesterday. I guess the shunt on Sat affects a lot on the rating.



#270 JeePee

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 11:08

AMuS quite harsh on Leclerc even though he didn´t actually set the world on fire yesterday. I guess the shunt on Sat affects a lot on the rating.

Verstappen got like a 4 from everybody for messing up FP3 in Monaco last year, while his race was pretty decent.



#271 statman

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 11:10

Crash.net:
 
Bottas: 10
Perez: 10
Verstappen: 9
Sainz: 8
Norris: 8
Hamilton: 8
Stroll: 7
Kvyat: 7
Raikkonen: 7
Gasly: 6
Russell: 6
Giovinazzi: 6
Albon: 6
Vettel: 6
Hulkenberg: 6
Magnussen: 6
Grosjean: 5
Leclerc: 5
Ricciardo: 5
Kubica: 5


#272 thefinalapex

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 11:32

Vettel 6? ok.... Giovinazzi 6? what the....

 

Edit: Russel also a 6, what more could he have done? 


Edited by thefinalapex, 29 April 2019 - 11:35.


#273 SenorSjon

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 11:40

Sky

Bot 10

Ham 8.5

Vet 7,5

Ver 8,5

Lec 6.5

Per 9.0

Sai 8.0

Nor  8.0

Str 7.0

Rai 7.5

Alb 6.0

Gio 7.0

Mag 6.5

Hul 5.0

Rus 7.0

Kub 5.0

Gas 6.5

Ric 5.5

Kvy 7.5

Gro 5.0



#274 jcbc3

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 12:34

So these three drives deserve the same rating on AUtosport??!?
 

Driver A did what he could in qualifying, which didn't amount to anything better than Q2 on a tricky weekend for the team. Driver A was able to flirt with the points in the race, but never had the pace to beat the team Y's and team Z's he would have needed to if he was to take a points finish.

VERDICT: Got more out of the car when it mattered, but was unable to lift the car into a serious top 10 threat. Ultimately, there wasn't a great deal else he could have done on another difficult weekend.



[Driver B]Having never driven in Baku before, Driver B could have done without first practice being abandoned but seemed to make solid progress during the rest of the practice. Until, that is, the Q1 shunt at Turn 8, which was caused by turning in a little too early. A penalty for leaving the garage too early for his pitlane start was costly, but his race pace was reasonable enough.

VERDICT: It's still difficult to evaluate Driver B'sperformance accurately, but while the qualifying crash and the pace edge his team mate had go against him, overall it was a solid performance.



Driver C said he was "shocked" to lap a second off Driver A and fall in Q1, the consequence of struggling to get the tyres working. The race didn't go much better, as he battled understeer, a lack of grip and, latterly, braking problems that caused a trip up the escape road and later forced his retirement.

VERDICT: A difficult weekend, especially as he started the race on mediums in the hope of making something happen. Like Driver A, was destined for a deep midfield finish when brake problems struck.



#275 jjcale

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 12:36

 

Crash.net:
 
Bottas: 10
Perez: 10
Verstappen: 9
Sainz: 8
Norris: 8
Hamilton: 8
Stroll: 7
Kvyat: 7
Raikkonen: 7
Gasly: 6
Russell: 6
Giovinazzi: 6
Albon: 6
Vettel: 6
Hulkenberg: 6
Magnussen: 6
Grosjean: 5
Leclerc: 5
Ricciardo: 5
Kubica: 5

 

 

Agree with this - except KR should be 10 - or at least 9.



#276 Taxi

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 12:48

Agree with this - except KR should be 10 - or at least 9.

 

No way. He did well but not that impressive. Giovanazzi was just a few seconds behind and Kimi couldn't even get close to Stroll. I say a 7,5-8 is a fair rating for this race. 



#277 SenorSjon

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 12:50

So these three drives deserve the same rating on AUtosport??!?
 



 

 

Post the ratings list then? Most of us don't have prime.



#278 AnR

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 12:51

Agree with this - except KR should be 10 - or at least 9.

 

Vettel a 6 is a joke, beat his teammate bot in qualy and race and had nothing with the mighty Mercs to do



#279 jcbc3

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 13:00

Bot 9
Ham 8
Vet 7
Ver 8
Lec 5
Per 10
Sai 8
Nor 8
Str 7
Rai 8
Alb 7
Gio 8
Mag 6
Hul 5
Rus 7
Kub 6
Gas 7
Ric 5
Kvy 8
Gro 6



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#280 statman

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 13:06

F1i:
 
Bottas: 9.5
Verstappen: 8.5
Hamilton: 8.5
Perez: 8.5
Norris: 8
Vettel: 8
Sainz: 7.5
Raikkonen: 7.5
Leclerc: 7.5
Stroll: 7
Albon: 7
Giovinazzi: 7
Kvyat: 7
Russell: 6.5
Gasly: 6.5
Magnussen: 6.5
Hulkenberg: 5.5
Grosjean: 5
Ricciardo: 4.5
Kubica: 4.5


#281 Marklar

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 13:18

I like Autosport for having Perez in front

522RcdF.png



#282 SenorSjon

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 13:28

@Marklar, you should compare with the 2018 ratings after race 4, not the overall rating at the end? Makes better season-on-season comparisons possible. 



#283 Marklar

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 13:48

@Marklar, you should compare with the 2018 ratings after race 4, not the overall rating at the end? Makes better season-on-season comparisons possible. 

Like this?

wcpNHW0.png



#284 coppilcus

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 13:50

I like Autosport for having Perez in front522RcdF.png


It’s interesting to see that certain drivers are graded regularly within a certain range and others vary from race to race...

At the extremes are pretty regular, in the midfield it’s quite irregular.

#285 Ragnar668

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 13:52

Like this?

wcpNHW0.png

That was fast, do people care about the AS/AMUS etc combinations ?



#286 SenorSjon

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 13:55

Like this?

wcpNHW0.png

 

Is the 2018 number from R1-R4? But something like this yes. yould also use two rows on top to make it less wide. And with Ragnar, you could skip the AS/Sky, AS/AMuS and Sky/AMuS permutations to make it smaller.



#287 Marklar

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 14:23

That was fast, do people care about the AS/AMUS etc combinations ?

Back then there was somebody (i dont remember who) who was strictly against Autosport, but I can see that this is a bit useless. I can remove it for next week if nobody complains until then  :p 
 

 

Is the 2018 number from R1-R4?

Yes
 

 

yould also use two rows on top to make it less wide. And with Ragnar, you could skip the AS/Sky, AS/AMuS and Sky/AMuS permutations to make it smaller.

Could add last years race as well while we are at it, but I dont mind either way

5LdKHnD.png



#288 Ivanhoe

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 14:27

This looks sharp Marklar 👍

Edited by Ivanhoe, 29 April 2019 - 14:27.


#289 SenorSjon

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 14:28

Looks good. But will it look good with 21 races on it.  ;)

 

Perhaps move the overall column right of the races, before the 2018 comparison? Now I keep looking left<>right to compare them.


Edited by SenorSjon, 29 April 2019 - 14:30.


#290 JeePee

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 14:30

VER should be on top of the list me thinks. Only driver yet to extract the maximum from the car in every race and qualy, bullying with faster cars in both races and championship. Leclerc was suppose to steal his thunder after Bahrain qualy, but that is definitely not happening yet.


Edited by JeePee, 29 April 2019 - 14:31.


#291 Lights

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 14:41

VER should be on top of the list me thinks. Only driver yet to extract the maximum from the car in every race and qualy, bullying with faster cars in both races and championship.

I still find it difficult to judge though as he really has lost any kind of benchmark.

How would you rank his races from best to worst?

#292 sopa

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 15:17

So finally the magazines have been enlightened and concluded what detractors have been saying all along - that Vettel is slow. Vettel hasn't scored even an 8 in any of the races, even in ones, where he beats his team-mate, which confirms, how slow really he is. Looking at the scores in Marklar's table, the likes of Perez, Norris, Sainz, Hulkenberg, Magnussen - to mention some - apparently all have a higher peak performance level than Vettel. Forget about Leclerc, he is now yesterday's news. Pair any of the mentioned drivers with Vettel to expose the lack of Seb's pace. :)



#293 JeePee

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 15:20

I still find it difficult to judge though as he really has lost any kind of benchmark.

How would you rank his races from best to worst?

1. Melbourne (overtaking Ferrari's, qualifying in front of Leclerc)

2. China (trying to overtake Ferrari's)

3. Baku (very quick on the medium, reeling in the podium but unlucky with the VSC)

4. Bahrain

 

He finished 3rd, 4th, 4th and 4th in a car that is no better than 5th, but he didn't earn a position once because of a technical failure of a Mercedes or Ferrari.



#294 Marklar

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 15:32

So finally the magazines have been enlightened and concluded what detractors have been saying all along - that Vettel is slow. Vettel hasn't scored even an 8 in any of the races, even in ones, where he beats his team-mate, which confirms, how slow really he is. Looking at the scores in Marklar's table, the likes of Perez, Norris, Sainz, Hulkenberg, Magnussen - to mention some - apparently all have a higher peak performance level than Vettel. Forget about Leclerc, he is now yesterday's news. Pair any of the mentioned drivers with Vettel to expose the lack of Seb's pace. :)

IMO Vettel is performing similar to last year at this point. And last year he was by a huge margin first in those rankings.

Last year
Melbourne: Kimi was quicker, enitrely lucked into the win
Bahrain: Great race
China: Good race, but after Max crashed into him he unnecessarly ruined his tyres when he tried to get back on track
Baku: Throwed away the eventual win.

This year
Melbourne: Outqualified Leclerc by a good margin, was quite a bit quicker in the first stint as well. Just a bad strategy gave Leclerc even a chance. Strong weekend overall.
Bahrain: Bad pace, stupid mistake
China: Solid qualifying, solid race, nothing spectacular, probably a tiny bit better than Leclerc
Baku: Similar as China

Well, yeah, maybe not the same peak as in 2018 (Bahrain), but on average there is no way that he is nearly two points worse.

There you can see what expectations can cause. Last year he was heavily overrated in the first races because people werent expecting Ferrari to do well, and he had a team mate who was very submissive. Both things changed this year to the opposite extreme: now he is getting underrated.

As for the Verstappen discussion: I would put him first. But he certainly has a easier platform with a struggling Gasly. Unless he makes mistakes he cant really look too terrible. But then again pace was never his issue, so it's a reasonable assumption to make that his performances are very good. Especially since there is nobody else so far who was really convincing in all four races so far.


Edited by Marklar, 29 April 2019 - 15:34.


#295 SBR

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 15:43

VER should be on top of the list me thinks. Only driver yet to extract the maximum from the car in every race and qualy, bullying with faster cars in both races and championship. Leclerc was suppose to steal his thunder after Bahrain qualy, but that is definitely not happening yet.


As a Verstappen fan I don't really care if they rate him 1e or 3e, the thing I'm happy about is his driving. It seems like he really turned a switch in his head last year at the Canadian GP. His driving has been flawless since then, showing the maturity you need when you want to compete for a WDC.

#296 TomNokoe

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 15:49

Verstappen locked up in Q1 and was in danger of being knocked out. He had to run a second set of Softs, meaning he only had one set left in Q3, significantly damaging his chances of making the front row.

His start was also poor and he lost a lot time behind Perez. Without both of these issues, he would've seriously challenged (and probably beaten) Vettel for P3 and may have had a shot at the Mercedes pre-VSC.

8 maximum, IMO, however he is beginning to grow an Alonso-esque aura. Accepted to be third-fastest (not strictly true) and with a weaker team-mate. Mistakes overlooked because they "wouldn't have made a difference". We need to be careful.


Edited by TomNokoe, 29 April 2019 - 15:57.


#297 JeePee

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 16:06

Verstappen locked up in Q1 and was in danger of being knocked out. He had to run a second set of Softs, meaning he only had one set left in Q3, significantly damaging his chances of making the front row.

Red Bull opted for a hot-cool-hot lap in Q3 because they couldn't get in the temp. window with only one lap after all the delays. There was no time for a 2nd run. His start wasn't 'poor' either. Nevertheless he get's the same ratings as Lewis who was beaten in race, qualy and wheel to wheel battle by his teammate.



#298 Ragnar668

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 16:20

Red Bull opted for a hot-cool-hot lap in Q3 because they couldn't get in the temp. window with only one lap after all the delays. There was no time for a 2nd run. His start wasn't 'poor' either. Nevertheless he get's the same ratings as Lewis who was beaten in race, qualy and wheel to wheel battle by his teammate.

He did lock up in Q1 leaving one set for Q3
Agree with the start not being poor though, it wasn't exceptional but normal, not bad



#299 TomNokoe

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 16:57

Red Bull opted for a hot-cool-hot lap in Q3 because they couldn't get in the temp. window with only one lap after all the delays. There was no time for a 2nd run. His start wasn't 'poor' either. Nevertheless he get's the same ratings as Lewis who was beaten in race, qualy and wheel to wheel battle by his teammate.


His Q2-topping lap-time (1:41.388) was set on the first flying lap of a run. He was going for a second flyer before Charles red flag, however.

I think Red Bull ran hot-cool-hot out of necessity, rather than preference. They had no choice. If they had the tyres they would've used them.

The run plan clearly hindered Verstappen as he only improved by 0.319s from Q2->Q3. Bottas, Hamilton and Vettel each improved by more than 1 second.

Unless Red Bull were running party mode already in Q2, then I think it's fair to say he underperformed slightly and was on the back foot due to his error in Q1. Exactly the same thing happened to Vettel in Bahrain and much more was made of it.

I think the fact he was P2 before the final runs proves the potential. I'm not saying he was fighting for pole, but Vettel's time was achievable.

He lost a place at the start so I think it's fair to say it was poor. He was very clumsy into T2 and climbed all over the kerb.

Maybe I'm being harsh but we are talking about a clear finishing position that was lost. It's arguable that Red Bull had the fastest car in race-trim, especially at the end of stints. Something Max could not utilise because of the aforementioned.

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#300 sopa

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 17:25

I'd agree with Max being #1. He is the only one with 4 excellent races I think. Of course the benchmark has changed, but if it has changed anything for Max, it is probably less intra-team pressure. With Ricciardo pushing him Verstappen could likely make some odd more mistake. But in terms of pace there is little doubt, he was quicker than Dan already last year, and Gasly isn't seemingly even in the same universe as Max.

 

 

There you can see what expectations can cause. Last year he was heavily overrated in the first races because people werent expecting Ferrari to do well, and he had a team mate who was very submissive. Both things changed this year to the opposite extreme: now he is getting underrated.

 

That's indeed how perceptions seem to work. I assume journalists are still working under impression Ferrari should be at the front in each race.

 

Tough team-mate pairing tends to make each other looks lesser, unless it's the best car and they get 1-2 in each race, lol. For example last year Verstappen and Ricciardo took turns particularly early on and both suffered. This year we are probably going to have a similar effect between Hulk and Ricciardo, with both suffering in the end. Ricci already looks out of it with 2 very low scores. Even if he has a string of excellent races, it's very hard to climb out of that low average score, just like it was for Max last year.

 

Also last year I felt Perez got underrated, because he was paired with Ocon. On the flipside now with Stroll there is a real danger he is getting overrated.


Edited by sopa, 29 April 2019 - 17:27.