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Alfa Romeo 2019: Kimi's back, Giovinazzi's back, Alfa's back (why?)


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#201 lahill

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 13:56

Good to have this point in these circumstances. However, race pace was not so good.

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#202 Radion

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 14:00

I'm guessing it has to do partly with the new fitted FW. The older was would not have been as stiff as the new one. So setup would have needed some adjustments for the new FW. 



#203 lahill

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 14:01

I'm guessing it has to do partly with the new fitted FW. The older was would not have been as stiff as the new one. So setup would have needed some adjustments for the new FW.


Agreed.

#204 Alexandros

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 14:02

1 point under the circumstances, not that bad.

 

Kimi retains best of the rest @ 13 points but is now joined by Perez @ 13 points as well. (Gasly has 13 points too, but he is in the top3-teams, not "best of the rest").



#205 Vesuvius

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 14:02

Yes new FW ruined Kimi's pace, but well important point. Major updates needed for the car.

#206 johnnyw

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 14:05

Gio did have just as bad pace so hardly much to do with FW. Car is just slow, others in midfieldhas improved but Alfa hasnt got any working updates.

#207 barzini

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 14:06

What happened to Gio? He had the same FW as in Q so he should've had some pace in the race as well? Ok, he started from P17 but I hoped a better result.



#208 WelshSwan

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 14:06

I'm guessing it has to do partly with the new fitted FW. The older was would not have been as stiff as the new one. So setup would have needed some adjustments for the new FW. 

 

Yeah, losing FP1 didn't help on that score either. It is very clear upgrades are needed though, Racing Point, Renault (Ricciardo's anyway), McLaren and Toro Rosso were all looking decent today and I am sure Haas will improve. It sounds as if Kimi REALLY does not like the new FW element whereas Gio seemed to be a lot more comfortable with it.



#209 Vesuvius

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 14:12

What happened to Gio? He had the same FW as in Q so he should've had some pace in the race as well? Ok, he started from P17 but I hoped a better result.


He had ok pace but was stuck behind others etc. Giovinazzi didn't have as great longrun pace on friday, when compared to Kimi

#210 Vesuvius

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 14:22

Kimi said they didn't get tyres working, they were too cold all the time.

Pretty good to keep tyres a life for 44 laps.

Kimi thinks barcelona will be much better for Alfa Romeo, but it depends on what updates teams are bringing.

#211 haryantofan666

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 14:30

Kimi had a new front wing of the same spec, right? Or was it a completely different front wing? Source?

 

Anyway, this track was always gonna be a lottery with the pirellis so scoring a point starting from the pits is a good result.



#212 Starish

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 14:42

Hoping for a big upgrade from the team, they are falling behind in the updates arena compared to teams around them. Let see is Simone Resta can earn his pay check and really cut the mustard. I want to see a much tighter engine cover and cleaner rear end along with a front wing similar to Ferrari's philosophy.



#213 turssi

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 15:30

Yeah a renewed effort on all fronts is needed in Europe. I have my doubts on if that's possible.

#214 Vesuvius

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 15:42

Kimi had a new front wing of the same spec, right? Or was it a completely different front wing? Source?

Anyway, this track was always gonna be a lottery with the pirellis so scoring a point starting from the pits is a good result.


Same new spec wing, but he used older until the race.

#215 sniper80

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 15:55

Kimi in the points once again having started from pitlane. Great result for Alfa & Kimi after a difficult weekend. It seems the Ferrari engined teams are not as impressive as in pre-season testing though.



#216 Vesuvius

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 17:34

Reading on race comments from the team snd according to them, Giovinazzi and Kimi used same specfication front wing in quali but Kimi's was measured to be illegal while Antonio's passed the test. So Kimi had to change to the other specification.

It didn't state that was the one new or old FW what was used until race. In race Antonio and Kimi used different FW specifications.

#217 dreamer

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 18:00

AUSTRALIA

 

Qualifying

Kimi: 9th

Antonio:14th

1 - 0

 

Race

Kimi: 8th

Antonio: 15th

 

 

BAHRAIN 

 

Qualifying

Kimi: 9th (started 8th due to a Grosjean penalty)

Antonio: 16th

2 - 0

 

Race

Kimi: 7th

Antonio: 11th

2 - 0

 

CHINA

 

Qualifying

Kimi 13th

Antonio  19th

3 - 0

 

Race

Kimi 9th

Antonio 15th

3 - 0

 

AZERBAIJAN

 

Qualifying

Kimi: 9th (pit lane start)

Antonio: 8th (started 17th - penalty)

3-1

 

Race

Kimi: 10th

Antonio 12th

4-0

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Points

Kimi: 13 (8th)

Antonio: 0 (17th)

Alfa Romeo: 13 (6th) 



#218 Vesuvius

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 18:51

Raikkonen: Team knew about front wing problem after China
https://www.racefans...em-after-china/

#219 GlueAndTar

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 18:59

Now that was a hard-won point. All things considered, stellar job from the Kimster all weekend, once again. Lotus-level consistency so far, while enjoying the some of best luck of his career. :drunk:

 

Was surprised to see GIO beat him in quali, while Kimi did botch Q3 by getting too close to HAM. Still, credit where it's due, GIO is getting up to speed. Still in waiting to scoring regular points, but at least he shows progress.

 

 


Edited by GlueAndTar, 28 April 2019 - 19:02.


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#220 Baddoer

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 19:12

Alfa needs to up their game, otherwise point finishes will be a luxury.



#221 tom

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 19:43

Watching live timing Gio was catching Kimi in the later half of the race, gap was down to just under 4 secs, then not sure what happened, had a bad few laps and then was 10 sec back..then pumping in great times later and closed in again to 4secs.
Gio's fastest lap was half a second quicker tha Kimi's, but guess we dont know if Kimi was fuel saving at that point, but for sure Kimi's pace through most of the race was miles off stroll and co ahead of him, so hoping it was just a bad weekend here.
Kimi said he struggled switching the tyres on alot, not this again!

#222 Sid04

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 04:31

This year's tires are said to be harder since the start of the season..I was surprised kimi did not struggle against Gio till now..but he has already said about tyres in both Baku and China...

#223 Vesuvius

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 04:47

Baku was always known to be a issue, tyres has never worked there. China as well is usually driven in cold conditions.

These days tyres don't work if you are driving behind someone for long or have to go slower than you could.

#224 Baddoer

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 05:05

Watching live timing Gio was catching Kimi in the later half of the race, gap was down to just under 4 secs, then not sure what happened, had a bad few laps and then was 10 sec back..then pumping in great times later and closed in again to 4secs.
 

He was lapped.



#225 Lights

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 05:35

Good to finally see Giovinazzi with some pace compared to Kimi. They seemed pretty matched this weekend.

 

How Alfa let Kimi leapfrog Gio at the pitstops probably had a lot to do with their respective finishing positions.



#226 sopa

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 07:07

Kimi seems to be doing a solid job this year. But this is what can happen if you get a different team-mate and move from a top team to midfield, so it's easier for your talent to shine through. It's a bit like, when Massa went from Ferrari to Williams, many thought he was 're-juvenated', even though I'd say circumstances were different. And of course in Massa's last F1 season he had Stroll as his team-mate, so the weight of results was all on Massa to be the team leader and deliver results, which he did. Right now Kimi is delivering all for Sauber Alfa, though I would hope Giovinazzi turns out to be better than Stroll!

 

Anyway, long story short - while old Kimi was found wanting in a top team, he is still an adequate performer in midfield.



#227 Balnazzard

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 08:27

Really a shame how the front wing failed to pass the deflection test only by 0,5 mm and how it surely didnt give them any advantage, but rules are rules....

Still I wonder how competitive Kimi could even have been from P8 considering the issues with trying to keep the tyres warm enough....might have still ended up behind atleast the other Force India and Mclaren.



#228 Zilbert

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 09:59

Gio was the first driver whose softs fell off the cliff, he bunched and backed a train of cars into Williams cars. Nevertheless, much better weekend for him.



#229 Amin

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 11:37

I remember Kimi's pace being terrible at Baku last year, albeit with a damaged car. Unlucky with the DQ but lucky to get points. Hopefully Spain will be better. 



#230 GlueAndTar

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 19:13

Kimi seems to be doing a solid job this year. But this is what can happen if you get a different team-mate and move from a top team to midfield, so it's easier for your talent to shine through.

It's hardly that clear-cut.

The way I see it, Kimi has two "handicaps" that shine through sometimes. One, he only knows one sure-fire way to tap into his natural speed; a car that follows its nose. Two, he's apolitical to a fault.

Scuderia are as political as they come. I imagine it's like Ancient Rome down there sometimes. People pulling into all directions and under duress they may fall into panic, unless there's a firm hand on top of it, like in the Jean Todt/MSC era. Drivers like ALO or VET are more willing and apt in playing the game, getting the support they need for their side of the garage. Kimi, well, he sort of expects fair play. Call him naive because of it, but that's what he is. In 2014, he said he got "certain answers" up front about how things are going to be for him. How that worked out? During race weekends, he oft complained to his race engineer, Spagnolo ("I want to know who is making the calls").

The other reason is, of course, the car. The less said about the 2014 dog, the better. Things got better down the line, but then there was the team-wide problem of pushing hard, just to get on par with the Mercs. This meant both human and mechanical errors were brought to the fore. Kimi chokes on Q3 and it's on display, because the car is still a challenger and the smallest error will give the Mercs leeway. Ditto Seb, who arguably has had even more to lose than Kimi, the perpetual underdog.

Was Kimi's 2nd Ferrari career underwhelming? Yes. Was it all on him? I'd say that's too harsh. He could've fought for more wins had their pitwall been more alert. Only they are, and have been a long time, a one-car team. He could've achieved more had the team around him gotten their act together more frequently than not.



#231 Zilbert

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 19:52

I just watched Autosport video about the whole front wing problem, and have to say i am a bit confused  :confused:  Did Alfa bring a new spec front wing for Baku, which Kimi didn't like and used the old spec one (read it in here), that failed in China, repaired, because they didn't have the time to build another one of the old spec, and that's why it was flexing - as suggested in Autosport video as much as i could gather? (wouldn't they had one as a reserve?) Or they didn't have the time to design and produce a new spec, and old one failed in China because of the inherent design flaw (which also made it flex more than permitted)? It seems we get very scarce info about technical upgrades and issues in general, and even that we have to induce from some vague statements. And Autosport isn't helping me understand anything, on the contrary.  :lol: They only talk about repairing the wing, no mention of a new spec one or anything. 


Edited by Zilbert, 29 April 2019 - 20:01.


#232 Vesuvius

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 04:50

I just watched Autosport video about the whole front wing problem, and have to say i am a bit confused :confused: Did Alfa bring a new spec front wing for Baku, which Kimi didn't like and used the old spec one (read it in here), that failed in China, repaired, because they didn't have the time to build another one of the old spec, and that's why it was flexing - as suggested in Autosport video as much as i could gather? (wouldn't they had one as a reserve?) Or they didn't have the time to design and produce a new spec, and old one failed in China because of the inherent design flaw (which also made it flex more than permitted)? It seems we get very scarce info about technical upgrades and issues in general, and even that we have to induce from some vague statements. And Autosport isn't helping me understand anything, on the contrary. :lol: They only talk about repairing the wing, no mention of a new spec one or anything.


I don't know if there was new spec, but Kimi and Giovinazzi both used old spec and Kimi's wing system was broken already at china, which likely was the cause of flexing too much. Then for the race they changed other spec wing for Kimi but was it new?

#233 haryantofan666

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 08:25

on Antonio’s car the same front wing with the same specification was fine –  but the consequence was that we had to change the specification and Kimi had to start from the pit lane.

 

Vasseur

https://www.sauber-g...ix-race-sunday/

 

So, before the race both Gio and Kimi were using the same spec, then for the race Kimi had to go to a different spec (newer or older)

 

I don't recall either driver binning the car in practice, so Alfa has probably not enough money to have spare parts. This is worrying.



#234 Vesuvius

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 11:39

on Antonio’s car the same front wing with the same specification was fine – but the consequence was that we had to change the specification and Kimi had to start from the pit lane.

Vasseur
https://www.sauber-g...ix-race-sunday/

So, before the race both Gio and Kimi were using the same spec, then for the race Kimi had to go to a different spec (newer or older)

I don't recall either driver binning the car in practice, so Alfa has probably not enough money to have spare parts. This is worrying.


Money is not a issue. Kimi's wing was damaged at China and there was no time to investigate and produce better part. he used old wing until the race, but was that completely new specification wing used in race or something used earlier this season?

#235 cordell777

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 06:40

Are there any news about new developments of the car?



#236 ARTGP

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 23:04

Will Alfa have the new Ferrari power unit?



#237 ARTGP

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 23:06

Money is not a issue. Kimi's wing was damaged at China and there was no time to investigate and produce better part. he used old wing until the race, but was that completely new specification wing used in race or something used earlier this season?

 

This isn't the first, but the second time we have seen Alfa missing out. I don't know about their financial circumstances but I find it odd that an F1 team is not able to react quickly.

 

1) They could not get the old Ferrari control units fitted in time for China. Then Gio had to sit out a session.

2) They couldn't fix the China spec wings for Baku. Kimi goes out with a random wing.

 

Didn't Haas have FW failure in China and "strengthened" the part overnight? 


Edited by ARTGP, 07 May 2019 - 23:07.


#238 Jovanotti

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Posted 08 May 2019 - 07:19

Will Alfa have the new Ferrari power unit?

We hardly seem to get any information from the team or other sources...quite frustrating.



#239 Vesuvius

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Posted 09 May 2019 - 11:09

Vasseur said, that the team started first winter testing week strongly, but then took ( as the rumour said) wrong development path. According to him they are now back on track.



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#240 Jovanotti

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Posted 09 May 2019 - 14:12

Alfa and Haas will get the new PU in Monaco according to AMuS.

Anything about other updates here? I fear the team will get left behind seeing how the other teams are almost bringing B-specs.

#241 Oho

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Posted 09 May 2019 - 14:28

Alfa and Haas will get the new PU in Monaco according to AMuS.

Anything about other updates here? I fear the team will get left behind seeing how the other teams are almost bringing B-specs.

 

 

That does not make much sense unless the old engine is at the end of its projected life...



#242 Vesuvius

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Posted 09 May 2019 - 14:41

Alfa and Haas will get the new PU in Monaco according to AMuS.

Anything about other updates here? I fear the team will get left behind seeing how the other teams are almost bringing B-specs.


Or at Montreal according to finnish sources.

Sidepod inlets are new, don't know about other updates.

#243 Starish

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Posted 09 May 2019 - 18:51

I wanted to believe they weren't able to fix Kimi's front wing due to a big update coming but seems they just couldn't be bothered. Soon gonna hear that they halted 2019 development and are working on 2020.  :rotfl:



#244 Vesuvius

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 12:36

Kimi said to TS, that they was told to get new engines for Monaco, but he said he don't want it as it will give no advantage there, so canada it's.

Edited by Vesuvius, 10 May 2019 - 13:19.


#245 Starish

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 13:03

Kimi said to TS, that they was told to get new engines for Monaco, but he said he don't want it as it will give no advnatage there, so canada it's.

They have more important things to worry about than a new engine. Appalled at the lack of progression so far compared to everyone. 



#246 Vesuvius

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 13:20

They have more important things to worry about than a new engine. Appalled at the lack of progression so far compared to everyone.

First we will see what the progress of others really is.

#247 johnnyw

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 13:53

Doesnt look very promising. Seems like if anything performance againt others is worse than it was on few last races.

#248 Jovanotti

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 13:54

Those onboards from Kimi didn't look good at all. Even seemed to struggle through T3 which should easily be flat.


Edited by Jovanotti, 10 May 2019 - 13:54.


#249 Balnazzard

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 14:38

Once again people here making "expert" predicions based on free practice sessions saying that it doesnt look very promising....how many times some people need to get reminded that qualifying is tomorrow and race on Sunday?

Im sure Ive heard this same moaning about poor performance after friday during two or three previous GP weekends as well and Kimi still managed to score points. and qualify in top 10 other than in China (and ofc in Baku he got that penalty).

For sure if they want to battle for that 4th position, they need to be able to improve, but I would not be all doom and gloom after Friday's pratice sessions at all based on previous weekends...you can tell me otherwise when they actually start giving points from Friday sessions....



#250 Vesuvius

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 14:47

Didn't look too bad, work to be done. pace looks still ok and similar to early season, compared to those who did bring major updates.

Edited by Vesuvius, 10 May 2019 - 14:48.