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2019 Scuderia Toro Rosso: Kvyat and Gasly are: The Demoted.


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#1 Risil

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 11:11

Put your non-technical posts about F1's only junior team that admits it's a junior team here. Who's winning the Kvyat/Albon battle for distant parental substitute Helmut Marko's affection? Are either of them?

Who else are Toro Rosso looking at? How exactly does the team work, anyway? Post your gossip here.

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#2 absinthedude

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 11:52

Decent race from Kvyat on Sunday. Just what he needed to get some confidence going. Too early to tell with Albon. 



#3 messy

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 13:35

Was happy for Kvyat because that was a really good, mature drive from him. Always saw Kvyat as the kind of driver who would qualify ninth and finish fourteenth the next day so it was good to see that reversed really.

Good qualifying for Albon, race was less convincing really but I think he's a pretty decent prospect. Can't get over the feeling that both drivers are seat-warmers though as RB wait for the next Verstappen to finish primary school.

#4 maximilian

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 13:38

What happened to Albon's race, actually?  He was ahead of Kvyat and running well... I think as high as 8th?  But then came the pit stop, and suddenly he seemed to be way back in the field, never to be seen again...?  :confused:

 

Strong race from Kvyat.  He did well to hold off Gasly.



#5 restless

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 13:49

TR ran different strategies  - Albon started on softer tyres and got caught in Giovinazzi train...

Shame that Kvyat couldn't finish overtaking Stroll, but its Melburn...



#6 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 14:41

How exactly does the team work, anyway? 

 

Very well!

 

Forza Italia!  :clap:  :clap:

 

They both seem like solid drivers, and the team is well run by expert team manager Franz Tost.  :up:


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 18 March 2019 - 14:42.


#7 Laster

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 14:49

Yeah anyone caught in the Giovinazzi train effectively had their race ruined and their teammate who was behind them in the pitstops was able to overtake them by staying out on the overcut. Both Perez and Albon lost out, and I’m certain had Sainz not retired he probably would have ended as one of those who benefitted - like Kvyat and Stroll.

#8 Heyli

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 15:17

Had the feeling from all the interviews that Kvyat has a lot more confidence again and he seems very happy to be back (already before the race :)  ). I expect him to do well on that basis this season. 



#9 TheJammin

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 16:01

Kvyat seems pumped up and ready to rock, looking forward to seeing him have a good year!

Albon... I like the guy but had anonymous spells in lower categories. Hope he finds his feet fast and puts in some good performances before Helmut gets his chopping block ready.



#10 RacingGreen

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 06:28

Well, for what it's worth, Albon won the qualifying speed trap battle,

 

Speed-Trap-Mel-1.jpg

 

So maybe he was using a slightly lower down force set-up of the type that increases your tyre wear on race day.



#11 restless

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 11:47

I bet Kvyat is very motivated - with his girlfriend they await for child.



#12 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 11:49

What happened to Albon's race, actually?  He was ahead of Kvyat and running well... I think as high as 8th?  But then came the pit stop, and suddenly he seemed to be way back in the field, never to be seen again...?  :confused:

 

Albon got stuck in Giovanazzi train.  :drunk:



#13 messy

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 16:55

I bet Kvyat is very motivated - with his girlfriend they await for child.


God, so young!! Me and my wife are expecting our first currently and I'm almost ten years older than him. I see people in their mid twenties expecting children and just can't imagine it! He won't have much time for Game of Thrones anymore that's for sure.

I like Kvyat and thought he did well in Melbourne, maybe the added maturity/responsibility will help him finally join the dots together.

#14 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 17:14

His fellow countryman Mikhail Aleshin is a fan as well apparently. He seems to think Kvyat is already within a shot of replacing Gasly, after just one race. Of course that’s a bit premature, but nobody expected Kvyat’s return at Toro Rosso, so who knows. If Gasly doesn’t perform, and Kvyat does, you wouldn’t put anything past Marko.

#15 danmills

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 11:00

Impressed by Albon again. If Gasly continues to disappoint I can genuinely see him being demoted with Albon taking over.

 

They wouldn't make the same move with Kvyat. 



#16 n0zz

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 11:17

https://www.autospor...n-used-tyres-q2



#17 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 11:24

Impressed by Albon again. If Gasly continues to disappoint I can genuinely see him being demoted with Albon taking over.

They wouldn't make the same move with Kvyat.

Doubtful. Albon is only a seatholder for Ticktum. Also, Gasly was impressive in his first season at Toro Rosso as well...

If Red Bull would choose someone to replace Gasly, it would be Kvyat. He has a lot more experience and seems more relaxed, error free and mature so far this season.

#18 BRG

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Posted 01 April 2019 - 18:07

Albon has made a very encouraging start.  If he is this good already, I think Kvyat may be history (again) unless Ticktum screws up his SL chances - which is on the cards if the Asia F3 debacle is anything to go by.  And with Gasly underperforming so alarmingly at RBR, maybe it will be Albon that makes the step up?



#19 sopa

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 10:13

Not convinced that Albon would look good against Max in Red Bull were he to get promoted, or any better than Gasly for that matter. Remember, last year Gasly comfortably beat Hartley and looked pretty good at times.

 

Red Bull's problem is that their junior programme has dried out, so they have no proper talents coming up. If they want to get an upgrade on Gasly, they would need to swallow their pride and look outside their junior programme. Well, if Max left RBR after 2020, they would need to do it anyway. No way Gasly-Albon line-up would be something to go forward with in the Red Bull A team!


Edited by sopa, 03 April 2019 - 10:41.


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#20 messy

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 10:34



Impressed by Albon again. If Gasly continues to disappoint I can genuinely see him being demoted with Albon taking over.

 

They wouldn't make the same move with Kvyat. 

 

Nah, I don't think that would be on the cards. Max was a special case. Promote him immediately or lose him to Toto forever. 

 

Albon is doing well, but it's early baby steps against a......Kvyat team-mate. 



#21 Sterzo

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 10:43

Albon has done brilliantly on the basis of what he hasn't done: repeatedly binned it, wrecked his tyres, rocketed backwards at the start, trailed behind everyone else, been blasted by Marko. Pretty good for a genuine rookie.



#22 RacingGreen

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 20:26

Albon has done brilliantly on the basis of what he hasn't done: repeatedly binned it, wrecked his tyres, rocketed backwards at the start, trailed behind everyone else, been blasted by Marko. Pretty good for a genuine rookie.

 

and a better than steady job in testing today with a lot of laps, 

 

 
“We had a very productive second test day here in Bahrain after missing out on a few hours due to rain yesterday. We ran some more aero tests and learned more about the behaviour of the tyres. We found some interesting things during the test and there were definitely some positives to take away. I’m sure we’ll be applying the results to what we learned in Bahrain later on in the season. Everything ran smoothly today, I got more mileage under my belt and I’m feeling better with the car – it was a very busy programme, but it felt good to end the day completing the most laps overall.”Alex Albon
 
 
 
“After a slightly frustrating day in the desert yesterday, today has been a much more productive session. Alex remained in the test car and we planned to compress effectively one and a half days of testing into a single day! As it is quite typical, we started the morning completing some aero rake running to gather on track aerodynamic flow structures to compare back to the wind tunnel and CFD runs. The remainder of the morning was focused on mechanical setup work, aero optimisation, and tyre understanding across six new sets of the C3 compound – the qualifying compound from the race weekend. Although there was some wind, it was significantly less than the race weekend which made the testing much more consistent, however, this meant it was hard to find solutions to improve the balance from the weekend. The focus of the afternoon was on tyre behaviour of the harder compounds over longer runs and how we can influence that with setup items. We closed the day with a number of shorter runs on the softer compounds to help gather tyre data and understanding for future events. Daniil continued the Pirelli test, learning about potential 2020 tyres. The car has been faultless again today and we were able to complete 774km with Alex (more than a whole race weekend) and 601km with Dany without any issues, which has been a credit to the drivers and the entire team. We now have a lot of data to analyse in the coming days with the aim of improving our performance from China onwards.” Jonathan Eddolls (Chief Race Engineer):


#23 midgrid

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 11:57

Another impressive race for Albon, albeit with a crash in practice this time.  With Kvyat's continued inability to string a clean race together, and Gasly miles off Verstappen's place, he looks to be in a strong position right now.



#24 Prelude

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 12:12

If they replace Gasly, Albon is the one they will choose. He is fast and calm. But I think Gasly will stay for the season. Unless he keeps performing like he is now, then I can see Albon replacing him before the end of the season.



#25 midgrid

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 12:17

Yes, I don't expect any changes soon, but Albon is doing a good job of putting himself clearly next in line.



#26 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 13:53

If they replace Gasly, Albon is the one they will choose. He is fast and calm. But I think Gasly will stay for the season. Unless he keeps performing like he is now, then I can see Albon replacing him before the end of the season.

Gasly drove exactly the same, if not better, than Albon last season. Albon has even less experience. If you promote him now, you’ll just ruin another F1 career for a young driver.

IF Gasly is replaced, Kvyat is the right man. More experienced.

#27 ElectricBoogie

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 13:59

Albon did really well to get back from that chassis rebuild and a pitlane start with a point. Also props to the team for getting the car to that level, of course.
Makes you wonder where Kvyat might have ended up without the touch and penalty. I feel that a 5 second penalty would have been plenty. Hey, it was the first lap and Norris rejoined the track at a decent angle. Without the rear breaking traction, might it not have been a touch anyway, 100% on Norris? We'll never know.
Kvyat will have to start earning his place like Verstappen did being "too young" for a long while, usually getting harsher penalties than others. Compare his Grosjean crash and the Alonso/Gutierrez one. And there were other instances. I do hope Daniil gets all the way back to his 2015 shape and beyond. He's mighty when fighting.



#28 sopa

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 16:50

One thing that can be said is that at least Albon seems to be a decent addition to F1, even if he isn't a super talent. Toro Rosso/Marko hesitated a lot before calling him up, but he seems to be doing just about fine at least on midfield level.



#29 BRG

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 19:11

100% on Norris? We'll never know.

I think we all know.  So did the stewards.  Hitting one Mclaren might be deemed to be a misfortune, hitting them both in one torpedo attack was simply the inept driving that we all expect from Kvyat.  Norris was entirely the innocent victim.  Sainz maybe 1% at fault for being unwise enough to be on the same track as Kvyat.  Today was a good day for Ticktum, as his seat at TR looks tantalisingly closer than ever - if only he could get those pesky superlicence points.



#30 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 21:37

The chassis seems pretty decent this time around, both drivers seem to have similar pace to the front of the midfield but it's difficult for them to stretch their legs with all the traffic and the various problems they've had in qualifying.

 

I think we all know.  So did the stewards.  Hitting one Mclaren might be deemed to be a misfortune, hitting them both in one torpedo attack was simply the inept driving that we all expect from Kvyat.  Norris was entirely the innocent victim.  Sainz maybe 1% at fault for being unwise enough to be on the same track as Kvyat.  Today was a good day for Ticktum, as his seat at TR looks tantalisingly closer than ever - if only he could get those pesky superlicence points.

 

:down:  No, just no. Sainz hit Dani, who was launched into Norris. 



#31 Nonesuch

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 12:14

Just noticed on StatsF1 that this was apparently the 250th race for Toro Rosso. Not bad!

 

Quite a few nice names among their former drivers, too: Vitantonio Liuzzi, Scott Speed, Sebastian Vettel, Sebastien Bourdais, Jaime Alguersuari, Sébastien Buemi, Daniel Ricciardo, Jean-Eric Vergne, Daniil Kvyat, Max Verstappen, Carlos Sainz, Pierre Gasly, Brendon Hartley and Alexander Albon.



#32 statman

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 12:41



#33 BRG

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 16:50

 

:down:  No, just no. Sainz hit Dani, who was launched into Norris. 

Just like the boxer who hits his opponents fist with his chin?



#34 MNader

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 21:22

Albon has always been impressive to me, in Karting he won everything. in cars was good but not mind blowing, in F3 and GP3 he was very quick but had errors and in races faded.

 

However having personally worked with drivers who raced against him, they all, with no exception, held him in very high regard for his speed.

 

so I am not sure if the car teams he worked with screwed him over (he had no money or sponsors to work with the real good teams), or maybe he has some issues getting cars to his liking. So his F1 career i follow with curiosity, so far he has shown he is a real talent. 



#35 absinthedude

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 11:16

Just like the boxer who hits his opponents fist with his chin?

 

Protesters viciously hitting policemen's boots with their heads.....Kvyat hit Sainz and ricocheted into Norris. 

 

Albon has quietly impressed me. Perhaps not a super talent but he isn't out of his depth and took responsibility for his one significant mistake. With regards to Gasley, I think we need to see more of him at RBR. 



#36 messy

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 11:54

Calling Albon up to RB would be premature but it won't happen. They'll persevere with Gasly for this season at least. 

 

Because...who else? Albon way premature as said, and Kvyat to me doesn't seem to have changed much since 2017, disappointingly. 



#37 restless

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 17:45

Protesters viciously hitting policemen's boots with their heads.....Kvyat hit Sainz and ricocheted into Norris. 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube....player_embedded

 

Of course, haters have to hate.



#38 ElectricBoogie

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 17:58

Sainz was sticking his front wing up Norris' rear wheel at the same moment Kvyat took attention away from the McLaren-self-inflicted-contact. 
They should thank Kvyat for taking the attention away and bringing some penalty points home.



#39 absinthedude

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 10:58

https://www.youtube....player_embedded

 

Of course, haters have to hate

 

I'm not a Kvyat hater. I wish he could rediscover the form that got him promoted to RBR. There's clearly talent there. 

 

And I appreciate Jolyon palmer explaining the racer's point of view. But what I see is still Kvyat losing control of his car with wheel spin and hitting Sainz. 



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#40 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 20:38

:up: Incredible result for the team! Beating out some of those hilariously overrated teams on a third of the budget.

#41 ElectricBoogie

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 00:07

Might Kvyat benefit from a slightly altered throttle mapping, to would that only slow him down rather than preventing these unwanted power snaps?


Edited by ElectricBoogie, 28 April 2019 - 00:07.


#42 ARTGP

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 01:56

:up: Incredible result for the team! Beating out some of those hilariously overrated teams on a third of the budget.

 

They have done a nice job, but lets not pretend Toro Rosso is as independent as say a Williams or Force India in the Vijay era. Toro Rosso's success on 1/3rd of the budget is probably because they have a relationship with Red Bull. Franz Tost says so himself. I wouldn't use Toro Rosso results to paint other teams as overrated. You could certainly use the Racing Point result to paint other teams as overrated. Racing point as independent as they come on a seriously underdeveloped car sitting in P5. Now that's something.

 

Franz Tost:

 

 

Most of the remaining parts we receive from Red Bull Technology will be last year’s specifications.

Tost explained that Toro Rosso hoped to get the jump on their development by using all the permitted parts from Red Bull.

 

“Scuderia Toro Rosso, being a smaller team, could not follow the fast development and production process a bigger team can afford, especially considering that the release of the technical drawing could, for whatever reason, be delayed or delivered last minute.

“Compared to other teams, Toro Rosso count on a smaller number of people, but the synergies with Red Bull Technology for the non-listed parts, now that Red Bull will also be equipped with the Honda engine, will leave more time for our technical working groups to focus more on the details.


Edited by ARTGP, 28 April 2019 - 01:59.


#43 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 02:40

They have done a nice job, but lets not pretend Toro Rosso is as independent as say a Williams or Force India in the Vijay era. Toro Rosso's success on 1/3rd of the budget is probably because they have a relationship with Red Bull. Franz Tost says so himself. I wouldn't use Toro Rosso results to paint other teams as overrated. You could certainly use the Racing Point result to paint other teams as overrated. Racing point as independent as they come on a seriously underdeveloped car sitting in P5. Now that's something.

 

Franz Tost:

 

If Renault and McLaren can't beat a car cobbled together from last year's RBR parts and on a meager budget then they really are overrated. Racing Point/Perez did a great job as well but they have the Merc PU in the back. 



#44 messy

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 06:49

Kvyat did well yesterday, showing he's capable of a proper turn of pace.....but this is Kvyat. I'll reserve judgement until seeing that he doesn't fade tamely to 13th or stick it in the wall today.

#45 potmotr

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 11:16

Doubtful. Albon is only a seatholder for Ticktum. Also, Gasly was impressive in his first season at Toro Rosso as well...
 

 

I get the feeling Ticktum's star is fading pretty quickly...



#46 statman

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Posted 11 May 2019 - 16:43

Pretty good showing today for the guys, especially Kvyat. Looks energetic again!



#47 messy

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Posted 11 May 2019 - 16:50

He needs to race well, not just qualify up there!!

I remember Kvyat in 2014....if I remember right STR used to put him deliberately on different strategies because he was so good at staying out long on his tyres and battling with faster cars coming up behind him...regularly he used to pop up in the top six near the end of a stint. In 2015 despite a pace deficit he scored more points than Ricciardo. Since then, he's become a quick qualifier who can't buy a points finish.

Needs to get out of that now.

#48 johnwilliamdavies

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 17:42

1016991027-lat-20181123-ony2704-15640502

 

Naoki Yamamoto took part in today's track walk.



#49 Bleu

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 17:07

I wonder if they give him FP1 drive at Suzuka.



#50 messy

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 18:27

He needs to race well, not just qualify up there!!
I remember Kvyat in 2014....if I remember right STR used to put him deliberately on different strategies because he was so good at staying out long on his tyres and battling with faster cars coming up behind him...regularly he used to pop up in the top six near the end of a stint. In 2015 despite a pace deficit he scored more points than Ricciardo. Since then, he's become a quick qualifier who can't buy a points finish.
Needs to get out of that now.


When did I post this? He’s done it.