83 replies to this topic

[carlos.maza]

Hi all:

1. I friend of mine assures me that Jochen Rindt was trying to qualify his Lotus 72 at Monza in Sep 70 without the rear wing when he had the fatal accident.
I don´t think this is correct, as the Lotus 72 had the rear wing as an integral part of its design. I have never seen a picture of a Lotus 72 without rear wing (qualifying or racing)

2. The official cause of the accident was a front right suspension member failure. Right?

Any help? Any picture?

[kartman]

The right front brake arm broke on the lotus 72. Therefore when the brakes were applied on the entrance to the Parabolica, the car turned left into the barrier.
The Lotus didnt have the standard wing as far as i know. It was more like the rear of the 49.

[Boniver]

see all the details

http://www.atlasf1.c...?threadid=10558

[carlos.maza]

Thanks Boniver.
I´m new to Atlas F1 Tech Bulletin. I appreciate very much your help.

Carlos

[bobdar]

The JR thread mentions Chapman's involvement with DeLorean. Mike Lawrence has an interesting piece called "The Chapman Mystery" at

http://www.planet-f1...wrence=lawrence

[David M. Kane]

Just in the last week I received a video history of F1 in the 70s. "The History of Motor Racing 1970's Evolution and
Revolution". It is White Star/Duke Video 3201.

The video contains actual footage of the accident and clearly states and show no rear wing present. The 72 ran
in-board brakes at the front that connected to the wheel hub
via a half-shaft. The half-shaft snapped sending the car into the barrier. Rindt always refused to buckle up the submarine strap so he slid forward into the ragged windscreen and front body work cutting his jugular vein. He died almost immediately.

In a separate video I saw on Speedvision a few days ago, they were interviewing Nina Rindt and she said that Jochen
had told Colin he would NOT drive the 72 at Monza, to bring
the 49 instead. When Jochen showed up there was no 49 only
the 72. In Nina's words Colin told Jochen, take the 72 or leave it. Jochen had no choice but to take it.

Jochen felt the 72 was fast, but he never felt comfortable
or safe in it. He and Colin argued all season long over this
issue.

[Rob Ryder]

Carlos

Here is a picture of the 'wing-less' Lotus 72 in Italy.



Rob

[p][Edited by Rob Ryder on 01-14-2001]

[moody]

...I have a question re. the photo of Jochen Rindt at Monza 1970, where was his silver helmet? I realise it is a full face helmet, had he just not had it painted yet?

[Rob Ryder]

Moody

Why silver? I seen to remember that Rindt went to a full Bell Star helmet from the German GP onwards, and it was pure white.

Rob

[Rainer Nyberg]

This is interesting reading for those who have not read it, it is Rindt´s teammate John Miles who gives his version of events when Jochen Rindt was killed in practice for the 1970 Italian GP. His Lotus 72 was running minus wings at the time - a move John Miles, his team-mate, had serious misgivings about. This is his story…

"Dusk was falling when the BE Trident Flight 062 touched down at Milan's Linate on Thursday 3 September 1970. It was humid and airless, as it always seemed to be in Italy. I glanced back. In the eerie cockpit lighting the captain and his co-pilot were filling in their logs. They'd be home for a late supper - lucky people.

Jochen was on a high. He was blitzing the world championship. His confidence was at a peak. He'd scored a succession of fantastic wins, beginning at the Monaco GP in a Lotus 49C, after which his new 72 started to fly. He won at Zandvoort, Clermont-Ferrand, Brands Hatch and Hockenheim. From the outside, Jochen Rindt appeared indestructible.

But appearances can be deceptive. I felt there had been too many breakages. Constant modifications and updates - plus we were now running a third car for Emerson Fittipaldi - meant there had been too much frantic activity, not enough rest for the mechanics. To me, Formula 1 didn't seem like this elsewhere. Intuition said that maybe things weren't going to go too well this weekend.

The 72 started out with three basic design faults: excessive anti-dive, which led to instantaneous brake locking; equally excessive anti-squat, which resulted in very poor traction due to rear suspension 'jacking effects'; and Paxolin spacers, which were supposed to keep the heat generated by the inboard brakes from frying the inner CV joints. Once the 'antis' were removed and another material had been found to replace the melting Paxolin, the car really started to work - because so much else about it was right.

But boy, was it fragile. We seemed to be forever stitching things back together or making stronger bits. On top of that I was frustrated because I couldn't seem to keep an engine together (it later transpired that there was a fault in the oil system). And two weeks before Monza, at the Österreichring, a brake shaft had broken on my car, nearly sending me into the trees to meet my maker. A horrendous vibration from the front end early in the race had made me back off a bit for the corners. Without warning, when I braked, the car shot across the road to the right. I scraped round the corner - guardian angel in attendance. This was getting to me. Nearly every time I got into 72/1, the engine blew up or something fell off.

I'd asked the wonderful Trish at Team Lotus to try and book a quiet room at the rear of the Hotel de Ville. As expected, I ended up overlooking the traffic lights and those all-night moped races. Already it had been a tragic season. That night I couldn't stop thinking about Bruce McLaren, Piers Courage and Paul Hawkins. Piers had just passed me at Zandvoort when he crashed. And now I was at Monza: scene of titanic struggles and the baying tifosi. I didn't like the place. Was this a motor race or a scene from Ben Hur? What was the difference? There should be a difference.

Friday morning. The Hotel de Ville had a nice chandelier in the dining room and a lot of wood panelling. I didn't see Jochen at breakfast so I made my way to the circuit alone though the lanes of Monza Park to the paddock gates. The tifosi were already out in force trying to clamber over the fences. One had blood on his hands, such was the imperative. They say that most flying accidents start long before the plane leaves the ground; there was no Gold Leaf Team Lotus truck to be seen. No chief mechanic Gordon Huckle, no Dave 'Beaky' Sims, no Eddie Dennis. Everybody else looked ready to go. Graham Hill had been testing with Rob Walker's private Lotus 72 earlier in the week. I noticed his aero set-up: front wings flat, the centre section of the three-piece rear wing removed, and the top and bottom aerofoils running almost flat.

The Team Lotus truck pulled into the paddock not long before the first timed practice. The guys had been working or driving for 48 hours, almost non-stop. They looked shattered. There had been a mass of updates after Austria - and a third 72 to build for Emerson. Our guys were scrabbling about fitting mirrors, sorting out Emerson's seat and fuelling the cars. "Funny way to win a world championship," said Phil Kerr, the McLaren team manager, as he walked past. Me? I was summoned to the medical centre. Typical Italian nonsense: drivers had to stand on one leg, arms outstretched, eyes closed, and stay upright. Never found out why. Quite potty.

Jochen seemed in good spirits. He knew the championship was his. Nina, his wife, was there, as usual. There was always an air of urgency about Jochen. He was always very fast straight off. He hated testing. I loved it. The more 'stick time' the better. As far as I was concerned, heaven was flogging round Silverstone making the car go faster. A well-tested race car is fast without so much risk. Jochen and I were late getting out and only in the 1m 28s, right at the back, after the first timed practice. Jacky Ickx's Ferrari had recorded a 1m 24.6s, with team-mate Clay Regazzoni, and Jackie Stewart - first time out in the Tyrrell 001 - in the 25s. It was in the second Friday practice session that things started to get really hairy.

Like Jochen, I had been working away at finding some straight-line speed, and had come to more or less the same downforce set-up as Graham: front and rear wings flat, middle aerofoil of the rear wing removed. There was about half an hour left. Ferrari had the test mileage: Ickx and Regazzoni were both now in the 1m 24s. We were two seconds down on that. Back in the pits, Jochen was clamouring for more straight-line speed, a big step. The previous year he'd nearly won the race in a Lotus 49 without wings. Now Jochen called, urgently, for the wings to be removed. "For sure," said Rindt to Eddie Dennis, his mechanic, "this would be the only way of going fast in the slipstreaming tail-chase at Monza."

I was losing a lot of time in the second Lesmo because the exit is unsighted. The exit speed here controls the build-up of momentum on the run to, and through, the flat-out Ascari Curve (now a chicane), and onto the long, long straight towards the Parabolica. It was here, in the last half-hour of practice, that I saw Jochen in the mirrors. There was something different about his car. I eased slightly. He got by after the Pista de Alta Velocita bridge. As the car passed there was the usual blast of noise, fumes, and helmet-shuddering turbulence. Blimey, no wings! Through Ascari, his car looked dreadful - back end floating, using all the road, including the Tarmac where the Monza Junior circuit swaged into the grand prix track. He pulled away a bit, but I rushed up to him in the braking area - not something I was used to doing. On this lap, or the next, Jochen extracted a 1m 25.7s from the car and we both pitted - with me on a 1m 26.5s. Jochen was 600-700rpm faster on the straight without the wings. He would now need a 200mph fifth gear to make best use of the 10,500rpm limit on one of the special super-fast DFVs to be installed for Saturday's practice.

The mere sight of Jochen's car in action encouraged me to keep some wing on my car. There ensued an unforgettable conversation. Before I could comment on my car, the instruction "Get the wings off John's car!" came. "Tell Colin I don't want to do that yet." Back came, "Just get the wings off!" In this situation I have always reverted to instinct - "The slowest way is the quickest way," JYS used to say.

I had an idea of what to expect because, even with some downforce, my car was getting nervous in the first corner, the right-handed sweep of Curva Grande. I did one lap. For me, the car was undriveable without downforce. The rear end felt very nervous, skating out from under me in the middle of Curva Grande and the Lesmos. There seemed to be no grip at all. For the first time in my life I was frightened in a racing car. Practice was over now. Jochen and I were sixth and 11th respectively. Emerson was on a 1m 28s, but had failed to stop at the end of the straight and lobbed his new 72 over the bank. More drama.

In those days, the total headcount at Team Lotus was about 12. Nobody had heard of hospitality units; the debrief was held in the back of the truck. "The only way you are going to do any good is to take the wings off your car," said Colin. I wanted none of it. Colin continued: "We sorted cars out before wings." "Right, but I need time to do that." "You're to run without wings tomorrow." "I don't want to." "Well, you've got to."

And with that the conversation ended.

I felt slightly sick. Disagreement with the man who had helped inspire me to achieve so much in motor racing would get me nowhere. Somehow I knew my days at Team Lotus were numbered. Jochen was happy. He must have felt confident about sorting the car out in an hour without wings, or so confident that he knew he could drive round any instability. I thought the risk too great. We didn't have the faintest idea of the aero behaviour without wings. I didn't like what seemed to be such a rash approach.

I left Dave with the job list - seat mods, gear ratios and so on. I told him I wanted to keep the wings, but expected the worst. I fought my way out of the paddock, had another fitful night's sleep and, at breakfast, sat with Jochen and Peter Gethin. We talked wings. Stewart was fast from the word go without wings. I'm sure he'd been testing there earlier in the week. All the other runners were using some downforce. "You'll be all right, John," said Jochen. In one practice session? I doubted it. I wanted to do things my way.

Back at the circuit on Saturday, Team Lotus were better organised. Sure enough, though, there were no wings on my car. "Sorry John, but that's what the Old Man told me to do." I had lost control of my risk. It was a beautiful sunny morning and Jochen got out to practice on the dot. Dave was still fuelling my car and tinkering with the fuel system valve. He had done a great job modifying the seat. In 10 minutes I was snugly tied in, unhappy about accepting my fate, but burbling towards the paddock exit.

Those DFVs were so tractable. Before I got very far I was aware that there were no cars screaming past the pits. There were just lightly-loaded, blipping DFVs coming into the pits - nothing else. Unusually, a quiet was descending upon Monza. Suddenly Colin, his chief designer Maurice Phillippe, and Team Lotus' Dick Scammell materialised from out of the paddock crowd in front of me. Colin spoke first: "Jochen's had an accident. See if you can drive round and see what's happened."

Christ! This is bloody stupid. What can I do? I don't want to be here anymore. I was relieved when the marshals wouldn't let me out. Meanwhile, Bernie Ecclestone (Rindt's manager at the time) was running flat out towards the Parabolica, followed by Eddie Dennis. By the time they got there Jochen had been lifted from the car. One of the marshals made a sign to indicate the worst. It seemed his spirit had been sent for - direct. Eddie picked up a piece of scalding hot disc - and dropped it. He picked up one shoe and Jochen's helmet. The front end of the car was virtually gone. The car had turned left, struck the barrier and slid down it. Jochen absolutely would not wear crutch straps.

He submarined so far in the car that the seat-belt buckle rode up to his neck. The rest of us waited. Even the tifosi fell silent. Another catastrophe for Lotus at Monza, the place where they impound cars and pursue people through the courts. Graham and Rob Walker were hanging around as they brought the car back into the garage. Along with myself and Dick Scammell, they slid under the up-and-over garage door, leaving it open just enough to let a shaft of light in.

The car's front end was a complete mess - nothing left. "Let's face it, he's dead," said Dick. Actually, he already knew because he had seen Jochen in the ambulance. I felt shocked but slightly high, as if I'd played Russian roulette and survived. From time to time, Graham had been very helpful to me. I think we liked each other's painstaking approach to motor racing. But there, in the dusty half light, he seemed somewhat inured to it all, asking Rob when practice was going to restart.

For Team Lotus, of course, there would be no restart at Monza. At about five o'clock we all knew for sure that Rindt was dead, and all four 72s were withdrawn from the race. I drove back to the hotel and saw a distressed Nina Rindt being comforted by her father Kurt Lincoln and Helen Stewart. I should have said something but couldn't. That evening, at a different hotel, I had dinner with Emerson and his family. I phoned Chris, my wife, and went to bed.

Piers Courage, Bruce McLaren - and now Jochen. And there had been several other less famous drivers killed around that time. Their lives were no less important to me. This was the sport, as a kid, I had dreamed about wanting to do, yet now it felt like a love affair gone wrong.

We shall never know for sure what went wrong. The car's right-hand brake shaft was broken. A bending failure would suggest it broke in collision with a guard-rail support. A torsional failure would indicate a failure while braking, which would certainly have made the car pull uncontrollably left as mine had pulled uncontrollably right in Austria. Denny Hulme reported that Jochen's car had weaved slightly before it turned left. The initial shock of something breaking may have made Jochen do something with the steering and brake pedal pressure in the fraction of a second before having to brake hard whatever the consequences. Jochen had gone out with unscrubbed tyres. He was also bedding in new brake pads. There is evidence, too, that suggests the brake balance had not been changed to account for the much-reduced rear grip - so maybe he just got into a tank-slapper under braking. There was even a story going around Team Lotus that Jochen had been advised not to drive his 72 without wings because I had reported it was so unstable in this condition.

Things fail on racing cars. Personally, I think something broke. I could never imagine Jochen losing control with such violence however bad the aerodynamics. Come race day I trundled to the airport by bus with Bernie Ecclestone. He was very upset and angry. He seemed to want to make somebody answerable. About a week later, a party including team manager Peter Warr and designer Maurice Phillippe (who was disguised as a mechanic) took the engine out of Rindt's car as this did not affect the inquiry into the accident. This DFV went into Emerson's Lotus 72 and won the US Grand Prix just four weeks later.

I met Colin about this time. He was very downcast, of course, and told me that Team Lotus were planning to miss the Canadian Grand Prix, to give them time to regroup. I had permission to go to Le Mans to do some filming. Two weeks later Peter Warr called me to say that I was being replaced by Reine Wisell. I was heartbroken at the time, but, in retrospect, Colin was probably right. The team needed fresh faces, not somebody whose confidence was at a low. At Watkins Glen, Emerson and Reine did a fantastic job to come home first and third. The 72 had begun to hit pay dirt.

One of my better decisions was to decline a drive that same weekend in the works Formula 5000 Lotus 70 at Brands. Allan Rollinson drove it instead. It broke in half after grounding out at the end of the straight on the approach to Hawthorns! As to R2, Jochen's 72, rumour has it that it's in private hands in Switzerland. Personally, I hope what's left of it has gone where it belongs - in the crusher."

[Allen Brown]

I'm afraid the remains of Rindt's Lotus 72 do still exist. Also in existence, possibly now separate from the wreck, is the chassis plate. One or other of these, quite possibly both, is likely to be "rebuilt" before much longer into a complete car.

It always happens - sooner or later.

Allen

[fines]

Rainer, thanks for the sombre story. It really gives an insight, and btw it also proves that Miles was *kinda* 'too intelligent' to be a good racing driver.

And Allen, you're probably right, but that's another sad story...

[mat1]

Rainer, thanks for the John Miles story.

What is the source?

I have heard Miles has written a book. Is this from this book? And, if so, what is the title?

Mat

[Rainer Nyberg]

John wrote the article for ITV last year.

[Ray Bell]

The shortcoming with the Miles story is there is nothing about the shafts being redesigned after his breakage.
This is mentioned in Motor Sport's article in the October 2000 issue.
We have a conflict here, too, with the earlier thread, which talks about a scratch starting the break in the shaft, or internal radii not being machined.
His mention, though, of a bending break is instructive, if true.
Other minor items don't stack up against the Motor Sport story, but we'll never, I guess, clarify which is correct.

[Gary C]

Am I right in thinking that the Lotus 72 was seen in these four liveries during its' career : Gold Leaf, JPS, Lucky Strike, Brooke Bond Oxo. Have I missed anything?

[David M. Kane]

Those are the four I always associate with the 72. Dave Charlton
did South Africa in Lucky Strike and Graham HIll did Brooke Bond
Oxo with Rob Walker out of Surtees shop in Edenbridge. When
Rob and Big John split, Big John keep the Brooke Bond Oxo sponsorship...thank you very much Rob!

[FLB]

Team Gunston had their own livery in South Africa.

[Gary C]

well done, FLB! I knew there was something I had missed! Thinking about it, wasn't the Gunston livery red & brown??

[Flicker]

Here it is!



...

[Gary C]

Great picture Flicker!

[DOHC]

Having read Michael Oliver's book on the history of the Lotus 49, I just can't wait to read something similar about the Lotus 72. Does anybody know if a similar book project is on its way?

A second question: when the new side impact specs came into effect in 1973, the Lotus 72 got its sidepods modified and "integrated" in the bodywork. Nowadays I often see references to that car as the 72E, but what I remember from the races I attended back then was that the car was still designated 72D. Is there some reliable information on what the specs were for 72D and 72E, respectively, and when did the change take place?

[fines]

True, most contemporary sources still refer to it as the 72D, always confused me, too!

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by DOHC
Having read Michael Oliver's book on the history of the Lotus 49, I just can't wait to read something similar about the Lotus 72. Does anybody know if a similar book project is on its way?

A second question: when the new side impact specs came into effect in 1973, the Lotus 72 got its sidepods modified and "integrated" in the bodywork. Nowadays I often see references to that car as the 72E, but what I remember from the races I attended back then was that the car was still designated 72D. Is there some reliable information on what the specs were for 72D and 72E, respectively, and when did the change take place?

ISTR that the deformable-structures regulations came in for the Spanish GP in '73, so Team were probably running old 72Ds in the three fly-away races at the start of the season, and deformable-structure 72Es from there on.

Michael Oliver was supposed to have done a 72 book that was due out at the tail end of last year, but I've not seen any mention of it anywhere yet.

pete

[Allen Brown]

By an odd coincidence, Michael emailed me this evening with questions about "a certain 72" so it appears the book isn't done yet. I'll ask him what his schedule now is.

Allen

[DOHC]

Originally posted by petefenelon
the deformable-structures regulations came in for the Spanish GP in '73, so Team were probably running old 72Ds in the three fly-away races at the start of the season, and deformable-structure 72Es from there on.

That's the info I have found in the past year too.

Originally posted by petefenelon
Michael Oliver was supposed to have done a 72 book that was due out at the tail end of last year, but I've not seen any mention of it anywhere yet.

I'll buy it no matter what. Can't wait... (Isn't that horrible? I was there!, at the races!)

[DOHC]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
I'll ask him what his schedule now is.

I'd be most pleased if I got to hear about it. Don't hesitate to tell him!

[Roger Clark]

The 72s first appeared with the deformable structures at the Race of Champions, although they didn't become mandatory until the Spanish GP - but did Lotus use the 72C/D/E designation? I thought is was dreamed up by jounalists.

[DOHC]

In fact, I can't recall that I saw the designation 72C in those days, only 72. But I do remember well that in 1973 the car was referred to as 72D. Of course I didn't check with Team Lotus, but IIRC the designation was everywhere in media including Race Programs.

[Racer.Demon]

Does this help?

[DOHC]

Maybe there's some problem with the web page, but I don't get any information at all from it.

[fines]

As an aside, McLaren did have A to F designations for their M23 which weren't at all published during the time!

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Racer.Demon
Does this help?

Excellent, but doesn't list the abandoned 57 as a possible replacement for the 49.

pete

[DOHC]

Originally posted by fines
As an aside, McLaren did have A to F designations for their M23 which weren't at all published during the time!

Do you have some info on when the differen types (A-F) were used? After all, they used different versions of that car for almost as long as the 72 was used.

[fines]

M23A - 1973
M23B - 1974
M23C - 1975
M23D - 1976 (from Spain onwards)
M23E - 1977
M23F - the BS Fabrications built M23-14 for Brett Lunger

Simple, really!

[DOHC]

Ok! Thanks!

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by DOHC
In fact, I can't recall that I saw the designation 72C in those days, only 72. But I do remember well that in 1973 the car was referred to as 72D. Of course I didn't check with Team Lotus, but IIRC the designation was everywhere in media including Race Programs.

As a new member of this forum, I think I can help a bit on that one

IIRC, 72C was a designation which Jenks came up with at the time to distinguish the revised car built for Rindt in 1970, which had nearly all of the anti-squat and anti-dive characteristics removed from its suspension, as well as a Hewland FG400 box. It just seems to have been adopted by the media from then onwards. I can't check what the team called it from here as all my source material/draft etc are at my office!

Jenks gave the 72B designation to the interim Miles car (72/1), which had the anti-squat removed from the rear but retained the anti-dive at the front and the DG300 box as well as having less internal bracing to stop the tub flexing. The original 72 was just known as the 72, I don't think I've seen the designation A, although this could reasonably be applied. The 72D designation was first used at Monaco 1971 when Fittipaldi's car appeared with revised rear suspension featuring twin parallel lower links, while the 72E designation was used for the deformable structure cars (Race of Champions 73 onwards, although as somebody has already pointed out, they were only obligatory from Spain 73 on). 72F also existed, which was used for the long wheelbase cars with the oil-tank between the bulkhead and engine, as driven by Ickx, Henton, Crawford. However, during the JPS days, the team did not even like them to be referred to as Lotus 72s, since they wanted the media to only call them John Player Specials - this was from 72 right through to 1975.

Hope this helps. As I posted on another thread, we are looking to launch in April now - the draft is with the publisher and we are currently doing the layout and photo selection.

Mike O

[Bernd]

Can't wait Michael. Are you doing a Leather Bound Edition? It'll look good next to the 49 one.

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Michael Oliver



IIRC, 72C was a designation which Jenks came up with at the time to distinguish the revised car built for Rindt in 1970, which had nearly all of the anti-squat and anti-dive characteristics removed from its suspension, as well as a Hewland FG400 box. It just seems to have been adopted by the media from then onwards. I can't check what the team called it from here as all my source material/draft etc are at my office!

I've just finished reading the Motor Sport report of the 1970 Belgian Grand Prix (the first appearance of both the 72B and the 72C) and this is the conclusion I came to. He describes the changes and then says "In consequence of all the work one could say that 72/1 had been modified to a 72B and 72/2 to a 72C".

Incidentally, the 72C modifications were even more extensive than Mike indicates above. The shape of the monocoque had to be changed to accommodate the changes to the front suspension and there were even more changes to stiffen the monocoque. Although the appearance of te car was little changed, it seems that the only thing left was the bracket that attached the DFV to the car.

Jenkinson doesn't mention the change of gearbox though.

[Roger Clark]

This question may be answered in Mike Oliver's forthcoming book, in which case I'll buy it.

Rob Walker's 72 first appeared at the Oulton Park Gold Cup in August 1970. It was described as a 72C, chassis number /4, but based on 72/1, which never appeared again. Now 72/1 had been John Miles' car throughout most of the season and was to 72B specification; it had modified rear suspension but not front. In particular it didn't have the much stiffer monocoque which was so vital to the 72's handling. Grahem Hill was pretty unhappy with the handling of 72/4 and was quoted as saying he couldn't understand how Rindt had won so many races in such a car.

So did 72/4 have the modified monocoque, and if it did, why desribe it as based on 72/1?

[Doug Nye]

When I was researching Lotus F1 cars in the 1970s both Colin Chapman and Maurice Phillippedescribed to me how Rindt's '72/2' had been reduced effectively to the seat back cell and bulkhead structure during its monocoque rebuild to accommodate 'parallel' front suspension, since this involved extensive reskinning. Miles's '72/1' monocoque was nowhere near as much affected during that car's conversion phase which - to save time - concentrated upon removal of the anti-squat rear suspension. Rob Walker's car appeared with the monocoque rebuilt as had been '72/2' - one would presume though Mike must have verified this now - and that would have entailed reduction to the seat cell/seat back section in similar style to the preceding conversion of Rindt's car. In such an extensive rebuild it would have been no problem to stiffen the structure, though it depends upon what stiffening was applied and in what specific areas. Mike??? Not that we should pre-empt the book, you understand....

DCN

[DOHC]

Originally posted by Michael Oliver
As I posted on another thread, we are looking to launch in April now - the draft is with the publisher and we are currently doing the layout and photo selection.

Mike O

Great news! Hope all goes well!

And thanks for the info. (Roger and Doug too!)

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by Bernd
Can't wait Michael. Are you doing a Leather Bound Edition? It'll look good next to the 49 one.

There will be one or more special editions but this hasn't yet been fixed. Don't know about leather-bound because I'm doing this one with a different publisher (Coterie Press, who did the Lotus Book). I keep thinking maybe I ought to have got a leather edition but I never got round to it...

I may also do a very limited edition Signature Edition as I did with the 49 book but again can't say for sure 'til plans have been finalised at Coterie's end ;)

Mike O

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by Roger Clark
This question may be answered in Mike Oliver's forthcoming book, in which case I'll buy it.

Rob Walker's 72 first appeared at the Oulton Park Gold Cup in August 1970. It was described as a 72C, chassis number /4, but based on 72/1, which never appeared again. Now 72/1 had been John Miles' car throughout most of the season and was to 72B specification; it had modified rear suspension but not front. In particular it didn't have the much stiffer monocoque which was so vital to the 72's handling. Grahem Hill was pretty unhappy with the handling of 72/4 and was quoted as saying he couldn't understand how Rindt had won so many races in such a car.

So did 72/4 have the modified monocoque, and if it did, why desribe it as based on 72/1?

It did indeed have the modified monocoque and was reduced to the seat back, seat tank and rear bulkhead of 72/1 in the same way that 72/2 was reduced, although of course that car retained its chassis number. The car for Rob Walker was supposed to be a new one, so I suppose this made keeping the old chassis number more difficult... The main difference on Hill's 72 was that the car retained the heavier DG300 gearbox.

To answer your earlier point about the FG box, I think this was just something that journalists had missed, that the car had first run at Spa with the FG400. You are also absolutely right about the strengthening of the tub of Rindt's 72/2 - a lot of work was done in this respect and, in fact, even as late as Zandvoort they were reinforcing the engine mounts as well.

Quite why Hill struggled so much with the car is a difficult one. Certainly he never got the chance to race it using the same spec brake- and drive-shafts that Rindt had been using as they reverted to solid shafts in the aftermath of Monza. Personally, I think it was simply lack of track time in the car, as they barely did any testing whereas the works did plenty of running to fine-tune set-ups.

For me, the most amazing thing is that nobody ran the car in 1971, yet this was a design that had won the Championship in 1970 (apart from the one race he won in the 49, of course, before anyone picks me up on that ;)

Mike O

[Tim Murray]

The quote below comes from the 'Team Surtees' thread

Originally posted by David M. Kane
One year in the early '70s I met some people at the Race Car Show at Earl's
Court that were involved with the Fire Eater Extinguishing system who were
interested in selling their product in the States. One of them worked full-time for Team Surtees also or something to that effect. Anyway, he invited me to Team Surtees shops in Edenbridge where I had a brief one on one with Big John which was a big treat to say the least. However, I never did get a clear picture on who did the design of their cars. Obviously, John had a lot of input. Did he just use draughtmen to pen up his ideas or did he have an actual designer?

I was blown away when I saw something in the corner under a cover. It was
the Brooke Bond Oxo Lotus 72 that was run by Rob Walker. It looked pretty
strange since it was without the back half of the car, engine, tranny, etc.
but had the front suspension and wheels still on the front end. I read recently that Rob and John parted company on less than totally friendly terms, but that is another story.

Could it be that when Rob Walker/Brooke Bond joined up with Surtees they passed over the 72 to Surtees, who would not have wanted to run it in place of his own cars, but quite fancied making use of the engine? I seem to remember that good Cosworths were in fairly short supply at the time.

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by Tim Murray
The quote below comes from the 'Team Surtees' thread



Could it be that when Rob Walker/Brooke Bond joined up with Surtees they passed over the 72 to Surtees, who would not have wanted to run it in place of his own cars, but quite fancied making use of the engine? I seem to remember that good Cosworths were in fairly short supply at the time.

I think you are right - ego won the day But exactly how many Grand Prix or World Championships did the TS7 or TS9 win? Easy to look back with hindsight perhaps but JS might have been better off putting his own car to one side for a season or three and running the 72...

Mike O

[David Beard]

Like all Lotii, the 72 was a delicate machine. Here's a Lotus man sticking one together.

[DOHC]

Kit car era, maybe?

But seriously, what's he doing with the airbox? Why is it jammed with anti-roll bars?

And what is the device in front of the rear wing?

Looks like a 1972 picture. (You can tell by the sideburns... )

[Mike Frison]

Hi! 1st post ;)

I have been told this one has been nailed together in Martini's workshop in Nürburg:



Taken from here: http://www.nurburgri...h&id=3&lang=eng

[Vrba]

Originally posted by DOHC
Kit car era, maybe?

But seriously, what's he doing with the airbox? Why is it jammed with anti-roll bars?

And what is the device in front of the rear wing?

Looks like a 1972 picture.

The device in front of the rear wing could be a fin that was in latter part of 1971 and earlier part of 1972 the part of the rear wing. In fact, early version of rear wing had two such fins placed symmetrically on the rear wing, a sort of 4 end plates on one wing. When the rear wing was moved rearwards, the design changed and fins disappeared from the upper side of the rear wing but remained beneath the main element.

Hrvoje