83 replies to this topic

[DOHC]

Originally posted by Mike Frison
I have been told this one has been nailed together in Martini's workshop in Nürburg

Welcome! But that's not a 72. It's a type 76 from late season (July or later) 1974.

Vrba, thanks for the information!

[Mike Frison]

Originally posted by DOHC
Welcome! But that's not a 72. It's a type 76 from late season (July or later) 1974.

Hi DOHC,
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but maybe it is both? From what I have been told the team ended up with two destroyed cars after practice for the '74 GP at the Ring: a 76 and a 72. To take part at the race they made up a new car of what has been left from the two. And the outcome is this hybrid. Colin Chapman was looking for a workshop with all the required tools and found it at the Martini workshop near the "Tribüne" Hotel (this workshop had to go, when they built the museum, now they have the Erlebniswelt at this place). This workshop has been taken over by Martini in the 50s, earlier it was the Veritas branch at the Nürburgring.

I'm trying to get additional pictures from a different source.

[fines]

Yes, it's a 76 tub with 72 rear suspension - a hybrid, if you like

[tyrrellp34]

I know.. this question is more than strange, but who can tell me which colour the steering wheel of the 1970 Lotus 72 (Monza version) had???

I mean the inner part

[RTH]

I restored Ch. no. 6 in 1983-- it came direct back from South Africa in poor condition still it Team Gunston colours - the steering wheel on that car was the original it was black leather - but most interestingly with a black leather covered removable padded centre- presumably to cushion helmet to steering wheel contact - clearly an original part of the wheel design as such some way ahead of its time for 1971 which I think this particular chassis dated back to - the 72's got updated each year in those days .....having a 5yr run !

[Dennis Hockenbury]

A fellow TNF member, Michael Oliver is just completing his book on the Lotus 72. Perhaps a PM will answer the question.

[Vrba]

I have two pics of Lotus 72's cockpit. One is of the cahssis R4, therefore it's Rob Walker's car. The other one might as well be from 1971 but somehow I think it's from 1970. Both cars have black spokes on the steering wheel.

R4:


The other one:


Hrvoje

[tyrrellp34]

Great! Thank you very much!!

[Vrba]

I also have scans of an article in Supercar Classics magazine showing restored R1 also with the black steering wheel, as seen on my second pic above.

And this is restored R3 David Coulthard tested in 1994:


Hrvoje

[Garagiste]

He was much smaller back then, and he turned off the driver arms off look!

[uwe_sautter]

Hi all,
attached a Lotus 72 pic.
The car is without a airbox.
Is Ronnie Peterson run without it or had he lost it during the race?
Give it more pics from the car at this event ?

[Gary C]

I'd presume this is practice & they were trying to get a little more power out of the DFV??

[Vrba]

I' ve seen plenty of pics from that race and all but this one (IIRC) feature normal airbox. Ronnie definitely had a normal airbox fitted for the race. Did he lost it? I don't think so. The pic above shows something like "adapted", cuto-off airbox fitted.
I contacted Michael Oliver, the author of a fabulous Lotus 72 book but he was not aware of this experiment as well....

Hrvoje

[Teapot]

I've got a picture of the car in Monaco (1974) without airbox from Bruce Grant-Braham's book, but it's too small and dark to be of any help.

Anyway, the text don't give any clue whether this arrangement was an actual modification of the car or a damage resulting from an accident.

Originally posted by Gary C

I'd presume this is practice & they were trying to get a little more power out of the DFV??

I believe you're right: I've just found a picture showing the car WITH an airbox, whilst Peterson was lapping Merzario's Iso during the race.

[conjohn]

One line from Autosport's report may, or may not, offer an explaination:

As an experiment, one car tried a DFV specially made up by J. W. with a lower, fatter torque curve, but this did not race.

If such an engine would benefit from different airbox, I leave for the experts....

[marat]

There is a big photo of the car without airbox in the Moity book on the Monaco GP,
but unfortunately without comment.

[GIGLEUX]

Originally posted by marat
There is a big photo of the car without airbox in the Moity book on the Monaco GP,
but unfortunately without comment.

And also three pictures of Peterson DURING the race; on the three, the car had an airbox

[WGD706]

My question is why is he running in a car #1? Wasn't that reserved for the current WDC?

[GIGLEUX]

N°1 was allocated to the team who won the Manufacturer Championship the preceding year. In 1973 it was Lotus so in 1974 they had N°1 and 2 for their two cars. In 1974 McLaren won the title and in 1975 inherited N°1 and 2. In 1975 it was Ferrari and they raced in 1976 with N°1 and 2.

[Twin Window]

...but Lauda ran with No.1 at Brabham in 1978, having won the '77 Championship with Ferrari!

TW

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Twin Window
...but Lauda ran with No.1 at Brabham in 1978, having won the '77 Championship with Ferrari!

I always aassumed the powers that be changed the unwritten rule in 1977.

[Twin Window]

Remember the 1972 Rothmans 50,000 at Brands Hatch? Bit of a flop, unfortunately. This is a story I heard around the time...

Team Lotus had entered a solitary car for Emerson Fittipaldi, but due to the hefty involvement in the event by it's title sponsor Rothmans, Lotus were told that they wouldn't be able to run their car as a John Player Special Lotus 72. The story went that Chunky arranged a deal with Fittipaldi's personal sponsor Cafe do Brasil and with the Brazilian national colours bearing such a great resemblence to those of Lotus from the pre-sponsorship days, the car was duly painted green and yellow with the appropriate signwriting.

However, an eleventh-hour compromise was struck between Rothmans, Players and whoever else and the car was put back into it's more regular black and gold a day or so before practice...

Well, that's how I heard it at the time - and it's intrigued me ever since! Does anyone else also remember hearing that story? More to the point, has anyone seen - or perhaps even have a photo of - the 72 in it's alternative livery?

TW

[Vrba]

Michael Oliver mentions the same story in his Lotus 72 book but there's no photos of the car in Cafe do Brasil livery, unfortunately.

Hrvoje

[Twin Window]

Really? Sadly, I've not even seen the book yet, let alone read it...

Interesting, though, as at least that indicates that what I heard at the time was true! Surely somebody took a photo of it :

TW

[SEdward]

TW,

I don't know anything about that car, but I was at the race.

Jeez, what a yawn!!!

Edward

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Really? Sadly, I've not even seen the book yet, let alone read it...

Interesting, though, as at least that indicates that what I heard at the time was true! Surely somebody took a photo of it :

TW

Definitely worth getting and reading. This story also rang dim bells from long ago for me - but I've also never seen any photos. I'd have expected, if the car was painted, some photos to be taken for press release purposes. I wonder if any were taken and, if so, if any survive today?

Would be an interesting color scheme - imagine a Type72 in green with a yellow stripe - very nice.

Incidentally have we ever discussed the shade of green chosen for the Type80? I understood that the deal was that Martini would race under the racing color of the sponsored team's country? I was always disappointed that Lotus didn't revert to a more classic Lotus green for the 1979 season (even if it would not have made any difference to how that season played out).

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by Ruairidh


Definitely worth getting and reading. This story also rang dim bells from long ago for me - but I've also never seen any photos. I'd have expected, if the car was painted, some photos to be taken for press release purposes. I wonder if any were taken and, if so, if any survive today?

Would be an interesting color scheme - imagine a Type72 in green with a yellow stripe - very nice.

Incidentally have we ever discussed the shade of green chosen for the Type80? I understood that the deal was that Martini would race under the racing color of the sponsored team's country? I was always disappointed that Lotus didn't revert to a more classic Lotus green for the 1979 season (even if it would not have made any difference to how that season played out).

Yes, it is the sort of unusual photo I'd have loved to have put in the book but unfortunately I never came across anything. Maybe someone has one somewhere and one day it'll come out of the woodwork!

[SJ Lambert]

Rindt - 1970 Clermont-Ferrand - cover report photo from Motoring News

 

 

[Gary C]

for those that don't know...my Lotus 72 dvd documentary is nearing it's closing stages...: www.lotus72dvd.com 

[arttidesco]

Am I right in thinking that the Lotus 72 was seen in these four liveries during its' career : Gold Leaf, JPS, Lucky Strike, Brooke Bond Oxo. Have I missed anything?

 

For posterity the one livery not mentioned since Gary's original post is Eddie Keizan running Embassy colours on his, one of his ?, 72's, with hesketh airbox, in 1974 before running it / them in the Gunston colours, already mentioned, in '75, not my photo :- 

 

 

[arttidesco]

Forgot to ask in the post above, do we collectively or otherwise know why Grahams Rob Walker entry ran at Monza in 1970 with the #3 and #28 race numbers ? I gather he ran #3 in the race but have not seen any evidence he has a T car. TIA

[Tim Murray]

He didn’t run in the race - his 72 was withdrawn following Rindt’s accident. He practised using #28, but there is a photo showing him sitting in the car in the Monza pits with #3 on it. This is the number the car wore on its debut in the Oulton Park Gold Cup two weeks previously. My guess is that the Monza pits photo was taken soon after the team’s arrival and they hadn’t got round to changing the number.

Edit: this quote is from the John Miles article posted by Rainer Nyberg in post 10 of this thread:

Graham Hill had been testing with Rob Walker's private Lotus 72 earlier in the week. I noticed his aero set-up: front wings flat, the centre section of the three-piece rear wing removed, and the top and bottom aerofoils running almost flat.

(my highlighting). It seems most likely to me that the photo of the car wearing #3 was taken in Graham’s test session before the start of official practice. Here’s the photo:


Photo copyright: GP Library/Franco Lini

[Gary C]

Check out my 2 dvd/4 hour documentary:
www.lotus72dvd.com

[alansart]

An illustration I put together last year of Rindt at the 1970 Gold Cup. He was my first racing hero!

Jochen Rindt, 1970 Oulton Park Gold Cup by Alan Raine, on Flickr

Edited by alansart, 21 January 2023 - 18:35.