136 replies to this topic

[Wingcommander]

So basically the Class 1 WDC is closer then the Class 2 WDC?

 

Only if you think of Bottas as a challenger  . Yeah Sainz has been really consistent and pulled quite a big lead. Hulkenberg had a great chance to kickstart his championship campaign but he threw it away. Overall he's been quite disappointing this year. Perez crashed out. Ricciardo and Norris retired. Kimi made a costly mistake but then got a penalty anyway. It all just fell into Sainz's lap. Stroll, Kvyat etc. just seem too inconsistent to really be season long challengers. 

[maximilian]

Getting sick and tired of this Sainz domination!  What a borefest! 

[AlcidioG]

Front row lockout for McLaren. They could be running away with both championships.

[AlcidioG]

Getting sick and tired of this Sainz domination!  What a borefest! 

 

Yep... another easy win for Sainz and 1-2 for McLaren.
Lets hope the other teams can respond after the break or this will get old soon.

[PayasYouRace]

We might have to promote McLaren to Class 1 to keep things interesting.

[SenorSjon]

We might have to promote McLaren to Class 1 to keep things interesting.

Or bring Gasly in the mix. Sainz would be in trouble.

[Wingcommander]

Rd. 12/21 Hungary

 

Race: (starting position)

1. Sainz - McLaren (2)

2. Räikkönen - Alfa Romeo +4,1 (4)

3. Norris - McLaren +10,1 (1)

4. Albon - Toro Rosso +39,2 (6)

5. Perez - Racing Point +50,2 (10) 

6. Hulkenberg - Renault +50,9 (5)

7. Magnussen - Haas +51,6 (8)

8. Ricciardo - Renault +51,9 (14)

9. Kvyat - Toro Rosso +1.00,2 (7)

10. Russell - Williams +1 lap (+54,7) (9)

11. Stroll - Racing Point +1 lap (+3,8) (12)

12. Giovinazzi - Alfa Romeo +1 lap (+9,2) (11)

13. Kubica - Williams +1 lap (+21,5) (13)

NC Grosjean - Haas DNF (3)

 

Class B WDC:

1. Sainz - McLaren 184 (65)

2. Räikkönen - Alfa Romeo 133 (35)

3. Norris - McLaren 117 (23)

4. Ricciardo - Renault 112 (22)

5. Kvyat - Toro Rosso 108 (39)

6. Perez - Racing Point 105 (10)

7. Albon - Toro Rosso 99 (30)

8. Hulkenberg - Renault 87 (18)

9. Sroll - Racing Point 86 (24)

10. Magnussen - Haas 82 (14)

11. Grosjean - Haas 47 (10)

12. Giovinazzi - Alfa Romeo 41 (1)

13. Russell - Williams 14 (7)

14. Kubica - Williams 8 (7)

 

Class B WCC:

1. McLaren 301 (88)

2. Toro Rosso 207 (69)

3. Renault 199 (40)

4. Racing Point 191 (34)

5. Alfa Romeo 174 (36)

6. Haas 129 (24)

7. Williams 22 (14)

 

 

So, we now head for the summer break having passed the half season mark. McLaren and Sainz have taken clear command in the championship. Kimi is really proving his worth to Alfa Romeo, but it remains to be seen if he can do anything about Sainz. Ricciardo's expected challenge seems to have faded. Atleast there's a good battle for the second place in both the championships. And shout out to George Russell, beat Stroll and Giovinazzi on merit at Hungaroring.

[sopa]

At least in Class B championship Russell is ahead of Kubica in the championship, as he should be. Also Perez ahead of Stroll. Looks like Class B leaves less room for random attrition races making a difference and you have to be consistently good all season.

 

E: By the way, it's an interesting statistical quirk that while Raikkonen sits 2nd in the championship, Alfa Romeo is down to 5th in the teams! Don't think I can remember such anomaly from actual championships!

Edited by sopa, 04 August 2019 - 20:31.

[cheekybru]

Can someone add Gasly in for laughs

[AlexS]

At least in Class B championship Russell is ahead of Kubica in the championship, as he should be. Also Perez ahead of Stroll. Looks like Class B leaves less room for random attrition races making a difference and you have to be consistently good all season.

 

E: By the way, it's an interesting statistical quirk that while Raikkonen sits 2nd in the championship, Alfa Romeo is down to 5th in the teams! Don't think I can remember such anomaly from actual championships!

 

Well it is not a quirk it is just the Gio unfortunately isn't making many points.

[sopa]

By the way, what concerns Sainz' "domination", worth remembering he has won only 4 races out of 12, so just a third. In contrast Hamilton has won 8 out of 12 in the actual championship. So competition is still far better in the Class 2 one. McLaren has got 6 wins, so half of them.

 

And driver in P2, Raikkonen, still hasn't won a single race. His season reminds a lot of 2012, when he won his only race only at the end of the season. Let's see if he can break the duck at some point!

[Brawn BGP 001]

Norris DNFs from the lead on the last lap.

[Otaku]

Another kvyat win then...

[Laster]

So question, now that Albon is in a Red Bull is he thrown out and disqualified from the championship for having too good a car? And is Gasly reinstated from this point forwards now that he is driving in a car eligible for the Class 2 championship?

[maximilian]

So question, now that Albon is in a Red Bull is he thrown out and disqualified from the championship for having too good a car? And is Gasly reinstated from this point forwards now that he is driving in a car eligible for the Class 2 championship?

 

Yep, like any mid-season driver swap, this is what should be happening, right? 

[coppilcus]

Impossible...

It’s a completely different series with monstrous pace differential!

[Bleu]

Assuming no other changes it means that Albon is stuck with 99 points while Gasly took 12 points at Spa. That harms their chances but Toro Rosso is well in the hunt in the constructors' series (for 2nd place at least)

[sopa]

The Albon/Gasly situation is like any driver switch scenario in which neither driver completes the full season. They race for half a season effectively in another series. Of course neither can compete for the championship individually, but Toro Rosso can still do well in constructors.

Edited by sopa, 01 September 2019 - 20:56.

[PayasYouRace]

So question, now that Albon is in a Red Bull is he thrown out and disqualified from the championship for having too good a car? And is Gasly reinstated from this point forwards now that he is driving in a car eligible for the Class 2 championship?

 

Albon keeps his points he scored in the Toro Rosso but scores no more. Gasly can begin to score now.

[Wingcommander]

Rd. 13/21 Belgium

 

Race: 

1. Perez - Racing Point 

2. Kvyat - Toro Rosso +6,7 (fastest lap)

3. Hulkenberg - Renault +23,8 

4. Gasly - Toro Rosso +25,4 

5. Stroll - Racing Point +26,0

6. Magnussen - Haas +33,9 

7. Grosjean - Haas +40,8 

8. Ricciardo - Renault +49,8 

9. Russell - Williams +59,5 

10. Räikkönen - Alfa Romeo +1.11,6 

11. Kubica - Williams +1.16,2

12. Norris - McLaren DNF 

13. Giovinazzi - Alfa Romeo DNF

NC Sainz - McLaren DNF 

 

I demoted Norris to 12th because he would have been passed by everyone, had the real leaders not have lapped some of the class B drivers. 

 

Class B WDC:

1. Sainz - McLaren 184 (40)

2. Räikkönen - Alfa Romeo 134 (21)

3. Perez - Racing Point 130 (35)

4. Kvyat - Toro Rosso 127 (46)

5. Norris - McLaren 117 (15)

6. Ricciardo - Renault 116 (8)

7. Hulkenberg - Renault 102 (23)

8. Albon - Toro Rosso 100 (25)

9. Stroll - Racing Point 95 (28)

10. Magnussen - Haas 90 (22)

11. Grosjean - Haas 53 (16)

12. Giovinazzi - Alfa Romeo 41 (1)

13. Russell - Williams 16 (7)

14. Gasly - Toro Rosso 12 (12)

15. Kubica - Williams 8 (6)

 

Class B WCC:

1. McLaren 301 (55)

2. Toro Rosso 239 (83)

3. Racing Point 225 (63)

4. Renault 218 (31)

5. Alfa Romeo 175 (22)

6. Haas 143 (38)

7. Williams 24 (13)

[Wingcommander]

Rd. 14/21 Italy

 

Race:

1. Ricciardo - Renault (fastest lap) 

2. Hulkenberg - Renault +12,7

3. Perez - Racing Point +28,3

4. Giovinazzi - Alfa Romeo +41,8

5. Norris - McLaren +43,3

6. Gasly - Toro Rosso +45,1

7. Stroll - Racing Point +58,0

8. Russell - Williams +1.19,6

9. Räikkönen - Alfa Romeo +1 lap (+24,4)

10. Grosjean - Haas +1 lap (+19,6)

11. Kubica - Williams +1 lap (+29,1)

NC Magnussen - Haas DNF

NC Kvyat - Toro Rosso DNF

NC Sainz - McLaren DNF 

 

Class B WDC:

1. Sainz - McLaren 184 (25)

2. Perez - Racing Point 145 (50)

3. Ricciardo - Renault 142 (34)

4. Räikkönen - Alfa Romeo 136 (21)

5. Kvyat - Toro Rosso 127 (21)

6. Norris - McLaren 127 (25)

7. Hulkenberg - Renault 120 (41)

8. Stroll - Racing Point 101 (16)

9. Albon - Toro Rosso 100 (13)

10. Magnussen - Haas 90 (14)

11. Grosjean - Haas 54 (7)

12. Giovinazzi - Alfa Romeo 53 (12)

13. Russell - Williams 20 (7)

14. Gasly - Toro Rosso 20 (20)

15. Kubica - Williams 8 (0)

 

Class B WCC:

1. McLaren 311 (50)

2. Renault 262 (75)

3. Toro Rosso 247 (54)

4. Racing Point 246 (66)

5. Alfa Romeo 189 (33)

6. Haas 144 (21)

7. Williams 28 (7)

 

Renault strikes back! That was the kind of performance I was expecting from them before the season. With two consecutive retirements for Sainz the field has closed up a bit. Perez has scored big points after the summer break. Kimi on the other hand has wasted the big opportunity to catch up the runaway McLaren. Ricciardo hauled himself up to third with his win and Renault got up to second with their second 1-2 of the season. Although their first came at Canada, so this might not be a sign of better things to come for the rest of the year. Monza and Montreal are both low downforce tracks, but we don't have too many of the on the calendar. On more normal tracks the car doesn't seem that good. 

 

I would say that the top 7 in the WDC are still in it someway. But it does require more bad luck for Sainz. Kvyat is the surprise there. In the WCC Renault look like the one that could challenge McLaren, but they need to start scoring big points more consistently. RP and STR would need some double podiums, but those don't seem quite likely. Alfa Romeo are out of this. Haas' disappointing season has not turned around. Russell keeps scoring for Williams on most opportunities. So that's it for the european season. Now on to the fly away races.

[sopa]

Sainz is still fairly comfortable at the front, despite two shockers. Shows the advantage he had gained. But now we enter circuits, where McLaren ought to do well (barring reliability), and Renault is questionable as they seem to go well only on fast circuits. So unless the McLaren keeps breaking down, I expect Sainz to win it in the end either way.

 

Perez has quietly moved up to second again.

[Henri Greuter]

Maybe combine the scores of Albon&Gasly is an option that enables us to see how the second Toro Rosso did against the others?

[ElectricBoogie]

With Sainz looking so good suddenly, one wonders how Alonso might have done in that car. Not so much Class B then, perhaps.
Those who consider Sainz to be having an Alonso level season would agree tht Norris is the best thing that happened to F1 in a decade.

[Dratini]

Rd. 11/21 Germany

 

Qualifying:

1. Räikkönen - Alfa Romeo 1.12,538 (1.12,519)

2. Grosjean - Haas 1.12,851 (1.12,769)

3. Sainz - McLaren 1.12,897 (1.12,632)

4. Perez - Racing Point 1.13,065 (1.12,776)

5. Hulkenberg - Renault 1.13,126 (1.12,766)

6. Giovinazzi - Alfa Romeo 1.12,786

7. Magnussen - Haas 1.12,789

8. Ricciardo - Renault 1.12,799

9. Kvyat - Toro Rosso 1.13,135

10. Stroll - Racing Point 1.13,450 (1.13,256)

11. Norris  McLaren 1.13,333

12. Albon - Toro Rosso 1.13,461

13. Russell - Williams 1.14,721

14. Kubica - Williams 1.14,839

 

Race:

1. Kvyat - Toro Rosso

2. Stroll - Racing Point +0,7

3. Sainz - McLaren +1,3

4. Albon - Toro Rosso +1,7

5. Grosjean - Haas +8,5

6. Magnussen - Haas +10,5

7. Kubica - Williams +16,7

8. Russell - Williams +18,1

9. Räikkönen - Alfa Romeo +33,9

10. Giovinazzi - Alfa Romeo +35,5

NC Hulkenberg - Renault DNF

NC Norris - McLaren DNF

NC Ricciardo - Renault DNF

NC Perez - Racing Point DNF

 

Class B WDC:

1. Sainz - McLaren 159 (58)

2. Räikkönen - Alfa Romeo 115 (32)

3. Ricciardo - Renault 108 (27)

4. Kvyat - Toro Rosso 106 (37)

5. Norris - McLaren 102 (33)

6. Perez - Racing Point 95 (10)

7. Albon - Toro Rosso 87 (20)

8. Stroll - Racing Point 85 (27)

9. Hulkenberg - Renault 79 (16)

10. Magnussen - Haas 76 (8)

11. Grosjean - Haas 47 (11)

12. Giovinazzi - Alfa Romeo 41 (13)

13. Russell - Williams 13 (6)

14. Kubica - Williams 8 (7)

 

Class B WCC:

1. McLaren 261 (91)

2. Toro Rosso 193 (57)

3. Renault 187 (43)

4. Racing Point 180 (37)

5. Alfa Romeo 156 (45)

6. Haas 123 (19)

7. Williams 21 (13)

I notice here that you haven't attributed a point for fastest lap. There are only 10 point movers from Silverstone to Germany, and all are equal to the points distributed for each position (25, 18, 15.. etc) without the additional fastest lap point which should have been given to Giovinazzi.

[Wingcommander]

I notice here that you haven't attributed a point for fastest lap. There are only 10 point movers from Silverstone to Germany, and all are equal to the points distributed for each position (25, 18, 15.. etc) without the additional fastest lap point which should have been given to Giovinazzi.

 

Good call!    I fixed it for Singapore.

 

Rd. 15/21 Singapore

 

Race:

1. Norris - McLaren

2. Gasly - Toro Rosso +0,8

3. Hulkenberg - Renault +1,9

4. Giovinazzi - Alfa Romeo +3,1,

5. Grosjean - Haas +20,7

6. Sainz - McLaren +21,2

7. Stroll - Racing Point +21,7

8. Ricciardo - Renault +22,9

9. Kvyat - Toro Rosso +23,4

10. Kubica - Williams +32,3

11. Magnussen - Haas +1.11,8 (fastest lap) no point for this...

NC Räikkönen - Alfa Romeo DNF

NC Perez - Racing Point DNF

NC Russell - Williams DNF

 

Class B WDC:

1. Sainz - McLaren 192 (8)

2. Norris - McLaren 152 (35)

3. Ricciardo - Renault 146 (34)

4. Perez - Racing Point 145 (40)

5. Räikkönen - Alfa Romeo 136 (3)

6. Hulkenberg - Renault 135 (48)

7. Kvyat - Toro Rosso 129 (21)

8. Stroll - Racing Point 107 (22)

9. Albon - Toro Rosso 100

10. Magnussen - Haas 90 (8)

11. Giovinazzi - Alfa Romeo 66 (24)

12. Grosjean - Haas 64 (17)

13. Gasly - Toro Rosso 38 (38)

14. Russell - Williams 20 (6)

15. Kubica - Williams 9 (1)

 

Class B WCC:

1. McLaren 344 (43)

2. Renault 281 (82)

3. Toro Rosso 267 (59)

4. Racing Point 252 (61)

5. Alfa Romeo 201 (27)

6. Haas 154 (25)

7. Williams 29 (7)

 

Sainz still has a healthy lead but Norris got up to 2nd. Kimi has had three horrible races in a row. Hulkenberg has scored the most points the after summer break and Gasly has been going well. Also thumbs up for Giovinazzi who seems to have found some consistency at last.

[mangeliiito]

Me, who is new to this awesomeness (thanks for all that work!), wonders which numbers are in brackets?

[Marklar]

Me, who is new to this awesomeness (thanks for all that work!), wonders which numbers are in brackets?

points scored in the last 3 races

[PlatenGlass]

Rd. 13/21 Belgium
 
I demoted Norris to 12th because he would have been passed by everyone, had the real leaders not have lapped some of the class B drivers.

I don't think this is the right way to do it really. You never know what would happen on the final lap, and Norris is being punished for making it onto the final lap. A load of other drivers might have retired on the final lap. It also opens a can of worms. A lapped driver could be struggling with their car and it might be fairly obvious they'd have lost several places had they done the extra lap. But how many? Nobody knows. I think the best solution is just to have the result as it stands.

[Rediscoveryx]

I don't think this is the right way to do it really. You never know what would happen on the final lap, and Norris is being punished for making it onto the final lap. A load of other drivers might have retired on the final lap. It also opens a can of worms. A lapped driver could be struggling with their car and it might be fairly obvious they'd have lost several places had they done the extra lap. But how many? Nobody knows. I think the best solution is just to have the result as it stands.

 

Tough one this. 

 

Another thought; what had Lance Stroll's Italian GP result been if there'd been not Vettel to screw his race up? There is an implicit problem with the top teams screwing over races for the class B guys that's hard to iron out.

 

Still, I think the case for demoting Norris in Belgium is fairly strong since the probability of other cars retiring on the final lap is reasonably low. Hmm... don't really know which foot to stand on here.

[PlatenGlass]

I suppose I'd argue that it's best to use the objective results rather than speculation on what they probably would have been if something that didn't happen happened.

[PayasYouRace]

I’ve been treating this as just a Class 2 exercise rather than what if the top teams didn’t exist.

[sopa]

Wonder if Gasly can catch Grosjean and Giovinazzi by the end of the season. Seems possible.

 

 

Another thought; what had Lance Stroll's Italian GP result been if there'd been not Vettel to screw his race up? There is an implicit problem with the top teams screwing over races for the class B guys that's hard to iron out.

 

Well, that would be just like in Le Mans if cars from different classes collide with each other. Both suffer even if they are effectively racing in different leagues.

[mangeliiito]

Sainz is taking this by a country mile.

[Wingcommander]

Rd. 16/21 RUSSIA

 

Race:

1. Sainz - McLaren (fastest lap)

2. Perez - Racing Point +2,8

3. Norris - McLaren +11,9

4. Magnussen - Haas +12,9

5. Hulkenberg - Renault +14,0

6. Stroll - Racing Point +14,9

7. Kvyat - Toro Rosso +16,6

8. Räikkönen - Alfa Romeo +23,0

9. Gasly - Toro Rosso +24,2

10. Giovinazzi - Alfa Romeo +27,5

NC Kubica - Williams DNF

NC Russell - Williams DNF

NC Ricciardo - Renault DNF

NC Grosjean - Haas DNF

 

Class B WDC:

1. Sainz - McLaren 218 (34)

2. Norris - McLaren 167 (50)

3. Perez - Racing Point 163 (33)

4. Ricciardo - Renault 146 (30)

5. Hulkenberg - Renault 145 (43)

6. Räikkönen - Alfa Romeo 140 (6)

7. Kvyat - Toro Rosso 135 (8)

8. Stroll - Racing Point 115 (20)

9. Magnussen - Haas 102 (12)

10. Albon - Toro Rosso 100

11. Giovinazzi - Alfa Romeo 67 (25)

12. Grosjean - Haas 64 (11)

13. Gasly - Toro Rosso 40 (28)

14. Russell - Williams 20 (4)

15. Kubica - Williams 9 (1) 

 

Class B WCC:

1. McLaren 385 (84)

2. Renault 291 (73)

3. Racing Point 278 (53)

4. Toro Rosso 275 (36)

5. Alfa Romeo 207 (31)

6. Haas 166 (23)

7. Williams 29 (5)

 

Sainz seems uncatchable at this point, but there could still be a good scrap for 2nd place between Norris, Perez and the Renault boys. Kimi's horrible string of races continued at Russia and he's now down to 6th place after being second before Belgium. McLaren have a biiiig lead in the contructors championship. But as good as they are in the class B, it was pretty depressing to see that in Sotchi they were 2s/lap slower than the front running cars.

[sopa]

Fight for P2 in the constructors also looks good.

[Wingcommander]

Rd. 17/21 JAPAN

 

Race:

1. Sainz - McLaren

2. Ricciardo - Renault +35,5

3. Gasly - Toro Rosso +47,9

4. Perez - Racing Point +48,2

5. Hulkenberg - Renault +48,8

6. Stroll - Racing Point +51,5

7. Kvyat - Toro Rosso +55,2

8. Norris - McLaren +1.02,6

9. Räikkönen - Alfa Romeo +1.15,6

10. Grosjean - Haas +1.22,6

11. Giovinazzi - Alfa Romeo +1 lap (+18,6)

12. Magnussen - Haas +1 lap (+2,3)

13. Russell - Williams DNF (+1 lap)

14. Kubica - Williams +2 laps (+87,9)

 

Class B WDC:

1. Sainz - McLaren 243 (59)

2. Perez - Racing Point 175 (30)

3. Norris - McLaren 171 (44)

4. Ricciardo - Renault 164 (22)

5. Hulkenberg - Renault 155 (35)

6. Räikkönen - Alfa Romeo 142 (6)

7. Kvyat - Toro Rosso 141 (14)

8. Stroll - Racing Point 123 (22)

9. Magnussen - Haas 102 (12)

10. Albon - Toro Rossso 100 

11. Giovinazzi - Alfa Romeo 67 (13)

12. Grosjean - Haas 65 (11)

13. Gasly - Toro Rosso 55 (35)

14. Russell - Williams 20 (0)

15. Kubica - WIlliams 9 (1)

 

Class B WCC:

1. McLaren 414 (103)

2. Renault 319 (57)

3. Racing Point 298 (52)

4. Toro Rosso 296 (49)

5. Alfa Romeo 209 (19)

6. Haas 167 (23)

7. Williams 29 (1)

 

Sainz again. This time he was absolutely dominant. In the last three races he's scored more points than the Renault boys put together. Gasly has been driving well, and will soon catch Giovinazzi and Grosjean despite having only driven in five races so far.