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2019 FIA Formula 2 Championship - Season Thread


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#2151 SonGoku

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 10:08

I would not sign anybody from this seasons F2 drivers. Really mediocre grid we have this year.


Can't wait for the predictable rants from F1 journalists when this would happen. "Bad for F1", "F2 champion should be promoted every year"

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#2152 SenorSjon

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 10:22

prediction, a lot of these drivers will be eaten alive by the incoming F3 stars


I fear the F3 drivers are in for a shock with the poor Pirelli's. Suddenly it isn't about speed, but keep the darn rubber alive. It is like trying to prevent paper from burning in a fire.


standings:

1. De Vries: 225
2. Latifi: 166
3. Ghiotto: 155
4. Aitken: 153
5. Sette Camara: 151
6. Matsushita: 116
7. Zhou ®: 115
8. King: 79
9. Hubert ®: 77
10. Deletraz: 60

® = Rookie


With 96 points left to attain and 59 in the lead, de Vries needs 38 points if Latifi maxes out his points in the last two events.
Pole + 2x FL is also worth double (points gained by De Vries are lost to Latifi).

Edited by SenorSjon, 08 September 2019 - 17:09.


#2153 balage06

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 10:24

I fear the F3 drivers are in for a shock with the poor Pirelli's. Suddenly it isn't about speed, but keep the darn rubber alive. It is like trying to prevent paper from burning in a fire.

 

The tyres are pretty similar now in the new F3, GP3 drivers tend to do much better in their first year (see Russell vs Norris or Hubert vs Schumacher).



#2154 messy

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 12:23

I would not sign anybody from this seasons F2 drivers. Really mediocre grid we have this year.


sadly agree. This season has been pretty poor compared to 2018, partly because of how thin this grid is. I mean, who actually cares when Matsushita wins? I suppose someone at Honda maybe gives a bit of an approving nod, at a push. Maybe Williams accountants’ ears prick up when Latifi wins too. Ghiotto, De Vries, King and Aitken fall into this category too. Seriously, these guys are in their mid twenties, have been around for years without doing anything remotely spectacular, now we’re watching them at the front of the second tier trying to pretend that they’re in some way the next big F1 stars. But it doesn’t help when the rookies this year just haven’t been any threat to them. We were spoilt in 2018. Now someone utterly pathetic like Raghunathan can actually score a point on some days.

Obviously too, arguably the most impressive rookie of this season, the one who was clearly destined for a seat at a top team in 2020, is gone. :(

#2155 efuloni

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 22:00

sadly agree. This season has been pretty poor compared to 2018, partly because of how thin this grid is. I mean, who actually cares when Matsushita wins? I suppose someone at Honda maybe gives a bit of an approving nod, at a push. Maybe Williams accountants’ ears prick up when Latifi wins too. Ghiotto, De Vries, King and Aitken fall into this category too. Seriously, these guys are in their mid twenties, have been around for years without doing anything remotely spectacular, now we’re watching them at the front of the second tier trying to pretend that they’re in some way the next big F1 stars. But it doesn’t help when the rookies this year just haven’t been any threat to them. We were spoilt in 2018. Now someone utterly pathetic like Raghunathan can actually score a point on some days.

Obviously too, arguably the most impressive rookie of this season, the one who was clearly destined for a seat at a top team in 2020, is gone. :(


I expected a lot more from SetteCamara. I still rate him a little higher than some you mentioned. Ill tell you why:
- he is young (more than 3 years younger than DeVries, for instance)
- got to F2 too early (his record wasnt long or good enough)
- had 2 very good first years (winning with MP in 2017 and in mostly in the same level as Norris in 2018)
- he is very very unlucky.

All that said, on the other hand, I cant believe someone that NEVER won a feature race and has just 2 sprint victories in 3 years of F2 is good enough for F1.

#2156 efuloni

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 22:02

Next year will be much better, I believe.
The prema trio of F3, Vips and Piquet must go to F2, right?
Who else?

#2157 William Hunt

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 22:40

Next year will be much better, I believe.
The prema trio of F3, Vips and Piquet must go to F2, right?
Who else?

 

Leonardo Pulcini: has been very consistent since the Austrian round, he's done well although some expected him to challenge for the title but it's not easy for drivers not in a Prema car, I think he would do well in F2

 

I think that Richard Verschoor is under a 3 year contract with MP Motorsport and that he will move to F2 next season

 

Vips could still move to F1 if he finishes runner-up (needs to finish 2nd overall to obtain his Super Licence, in theory that's still possible), I hope Red Bull doesn't send him to Super Formula since there are less Super Licence points to gain there

 

Christian Lundgaard is one of the biggest talents in F3 but since he's just 18 I expect him to stay in F3

 

Fabio Scherer might move up to the F2 junior team of Sauber (which is actually Charouz) but we could also see one of the Ferrari juniors there (for example Armstrong), Max Fewtrell may also be looking to move to F2, I expect Pedro Piquet to drive for Trident in F2 next year, probably as teammate to Giuliano Alesi


Edited by William Hunt, 08 September 2019 - 22:43.


#2158 SenorSjon

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 08:55

Next year will be much better, I believe.
The prema trio of F3, Vips and Piquet must go to F2, right?
Who else?

 

I wonder how they will do without Prema Power blitzing the field.



#2159 Sndr

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 09:05

Vips could still move to F1 if he finishes runner-up (needs to finish 2nd overall to obtain his Super Licence, in theory that's still possible), I hope Red Bull doesn't send him to Super Formula since there are less Super Licence points to gain there

 

 

if i remember correctly he does not have to finish second but stay in third to get the required SL points. so it's not about him catching daruvala but about staying ahead of armstrong (which will be difficult enough).



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#2160 DS27

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 09:15

Agree this year is generally quite weak, but De Vries is a good bench-mark for last year. He's clearly having a better year in 2019, but this seems as much to do with consistency as much as finding any more speed.

 

The fact that some of the rookies are often a match, or very close, on lap speed means that all hope is not lost for their future. Hopefully next year, with a few more quality drivers coming through from junior series, will be more competitive. I think we were a bit spoilt last year, but I have found it interesting that Norris didn't look that impressive in F2, yet looks the real deal in F1, so that could apply to others as well.

 

 

Assuming De Vries is clearly going to win the title - what are his career options? 



#2161 Marklar

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 09:18

Agree this year is generally quite weak, but De Vries is a good bench-mark for last year. He's clearly having a better year in 2019, but this seems as much to do with consistency as much as finding any more speed.

The fact that some of the rookies are often a match, or very close, on lap speed means that all hope is not lost for their future. Hopefully next year, with a few more quality drivers coming through from junior series, will be more competitive. I think we were a bit spoilt last year, but I have found it interesting that Norris didn't look that impressive in F2, yet looks the real deal in F1, so that could apply to others as well.


Assuming De Vries is clearly going to win the title - what are his career options?

He is rumoured at Mercedes for Formula E. He already tested I think and is also already doing sim work for the F1 team.

Considering that all Mercedes test drivers have done GPs he could aldo snatch some young driver test days in 2020 now thinking about it lol

Edited by Marklar, 09 September 2019 - 09:20.


#2162 TomNokoe

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 09:21

I think the regulation change last year reset the whole field - the experienced guys and rookies had to start from zero.

Last year's rookies are now the experienced guys and it is shining through. I agree it's not the most comprehensive grid, but it's unfair to write the majority of drivers off, especially the rookies.

 

Next year will be extra important for Zhou, Schumacher, Mazepin, Ilott etc ...



#2163 messy

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 09:44

I think the regulation change last year reset the whole field - the experienced guys and rookies had to start from zero.

Last year's rookies are now the experienced guys and it is shining through. I agree it's not the most comprehensive grid, but it's unfair to write the majority of drivers off, especially the rookies.

 

Next year will be extra important for Zhou, Schumacher, Mazepin, Ilott etc ...

 

But Aitken is the only person who'd fall into that category - the rest of them have been in F2/GP2 for years. 



#2164 TomNokoe

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 09:47

But Aitken is the only person who'd fall into that category - the rest of them have been in F2/GP2 for years.


They were all ""rookies"" last year with the regulation change. I know it's not the strongest argument :lol:

#2165 SonGoku

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 09:48

It's one of the weakest F2 fields in recent years. They are lucky the racing makes up for a lot, but we aren't watching the F1 stars of the future.

That's why it's hard to get excited about De Vries title, I would be if he did achieve it last season.

Edited by SonGoku, 09 September 2019 - 09:49.


#2166 Kev00

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 10:07

I expected a lot more from SetteCamara. I still rate him a little higher than some you mentioned. Ill tell you why:
- he is young (more than 3 years younger than DeVries, for instance)
- got to F2 too early (his record wasnt long or good enough)
- had 2 very good first years (winning with MP in 2017 and in mostly in the same level as Norris in 2018)
- he is very very unlucky.

All that said, on the other hand, I cant believe someone that NEVER won a feature race and has just 2 sprint victories in 3 years of F2 is good enough for F1.


As far as I can see he’s won 2 races in his whole career, in around 150 races. Anyone with that record in junior Formula racing should never be anywhere near F1. You expect to see a promising youngster tear up at least one series, but so many on this grid look average. Zhou has looked the most promising for me but he spent so many years just driving around the midfield in Formula 3. Latino will buy his way in. I expect Mick to get there at some point because of his name and maybe Zhou because of his nationality but the next superstars are in lower series or maybe even still in karting.

#2167 pacificquay

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 10:14

. I think we were a bit spoilt last year, but I have found it interesting that Norris didn't look that impressive in F2,

 

 

 

He finished 2nd in the championship as a rookie! Hardly "not that impressive"



#2168 noikeee

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 10:21

He finished 2nd in the championship as a rookie! Hardly "not that impressive"

 

A 18 year old rookie, no less. I think we shouldn't forget that - we might've seen drivers younger and younger in F1 in recent years so have gotten desensitised to it, but that's very unusually young even for F2. I'm pretty sure that's the youngest driver we've ever had fighting for a F2 title.



#2169 SenorSjon

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 10:39

It's one of the weakest F2 fields in recent years. They are lucky the racing makes up for a lot, but we aren't watching the F1 stars of the future.

That's why it's hard to get excited about De Vries title, I would be if he did achieve it last season.

 

Last season was more random with equipment and clutches failing the first half of the season. De Vries seemed to have calmed down more. Better score every race. The others will mess up eventually (and they do).



#2170 messy

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 10:45

A 18 year old rookie, no less. I think we shouldn't forget that - we might've seen drivers younger and younger in F1 in recent years so have gotten desensitised to it, but that's very unusually young even for F2. I'm pretty sure that's the youngest driver we've ever had fighting for a F2 title.

 

What was so impressive about Norris last year wasn't his speed, it was how assured he looked in wheel to wheel combat. 

 

Now in F1 it's the opposite. It's weird. He was always obviously very talented.



#2171 Bleu

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 12:24

Regarding the quality of field, I'll try to think which driver has/had the best career since the series. I start this from 1985 (the inaugular year of F3000). I restrict the drivers to those who missed a maximum of one round during the season:
 
1985: Streiff was the only one to achieve F1 podium. But overall five-time Le Mans winner Pirro takes the cake.
 
1986: Pirro was still there and I would give him an edge over fellow Italians who had better F1 career (Capelli, Martini). 
 
1987: Moreno and Modena had F1 podiums and from those I put Moreno's CART success ahead of Modena's touring car achievements. However Dalmas won Le Mans four times and Tarquini is WTCC champion, so very tough to select one of those.
 
1988: Alesi won GP and had a number of F1 podiums, I would have to give an edge to him. 
 
1989: Alesi was still there but I put Irvine ahead of him.
 
1990: Damon Hill had a full season after being part-timer for two previous ones. Easy selection here.
 
1991: Hill continued and no challenger arises.
 
1992: The battle of famous #2s: Coulthard vs Barrichello. I'll give an edge to Scot.
 
1993: It's DC again.
 
1994: De Ferran won Indy 500 and two CART titles and that's good enough in this comparison.
 
1995: McNish competed in the category for long time. This year I'll put him on the top with three Le Mans wins.
 
1996: Both Bräck and da Matta won titles in US open-wheelers during the split era. Of those I think Bräck was better even though he didn't make it to F1 while da Matta did for 1½ seasons.
 
1997: A very tough comparison between two main contenders: Montoya won 7 GPs and Indy 500 twice along with CART title. But he goes against Le Mans legend and I have to put Kristensen above.
 
1998: Montoya was still there and this time he wins.
 
1999: Nothing superior here but even without race wins I rate Heidfeld's F1 career good enough to be considered the best here.
 
2000: Can't look past Alonso here.
 
2001: Nine GP wins vs four Champ Car titles. I rate Webber the highest here.
 
2002: Bourdais's revenge, this time not good enough challenger.
 
2003: In a quite weak field I say Liuzzi was the best overall.
 
2004: Lopez has had nice career in touring cars and WEC and he raises on top.
 
2005: First year of GP2 and it's champion Rosberg who goes on top.
 
2006: Hamilton and it's not even close.
 
2007: Glock had F1 podiums but di Grassi's Formula E success is enough for me.
 
2008: Maldonado may have won a Grand Prix but I rate Grosjean's career higher.
 
2009: Sergio Perez's multiple podiums in average cars take the cake.
 
2010: Still Perez, as we were not able to see what Bianchi could have done.
 
2011: Grosjean made a comeback to the series. He won the title and is ahead in the career perspective.
 
2012: Another weak field and from about these years onwards the jury is still out since most drivers are still under 30. Nasr's F1 career is the best of these and he also has WeatherTech title.
 
2013: Rossi is Indy 500 winner and it's easy to put him on the top.
 
2014: Palmer, Vandoorne and Nasr had about two F1 seasons but none of them shined. So far I put Nasr on top.
 
2015: Vandoorne dominated but career-wise I put Rossi ahead at the moment.


#2172 FLB

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 12:29

For 1991, I'd argue about Sandro Zanardi as a challenger, although his F1 career was not good.

 

Sme for 1995, I'd argue Kenny Bräck over McNish.


Edited by FLB, 09 September 2019 - 12:32.


#2173 Marklar

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 15:36

Next year will be much better, I believe.
The prema trio of F3, Vips and Piquet must go to F2, right?
Who else?

 

Tsunoda as well according to Marko.

About Vips he said that it's not decided yet, while remarking that he still can get the super licence, so probably that means either directly into F1 or F2 if he doesnt get the top 3 finish in F3.



#2174 Dander

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 10:20

Found a hidden gem in a article about Arden/Hubert;

 

"Calderon was on course for points in the feature race before a spin at the Variante della Roggia chicane, and finished 14th in the following day's sprint race."

 

https://www.motorspo...hubert/4537654/

 

How the hell can you be on course for points when you, whilst running well out of the points mind you, spin out with 25(!) laps to go?  :stoned:

 

 

Edit: Spelling


Edited by Dander, 10 September 2019 - 10:21.


#2175 Muppetmad

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 10:41

It's been a bad year for Calderon, undeniably. She's better than this year has shown though, I think. She's clearly not going to reach Formula 1, but I'd like to see her doing well elsewhere.



#2176 midgrid

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 11:14

strange how Latifi has completely no pace today

 

He spun on the formation lap and flat-spotted his tyres.



#2177 midgrid

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 11:14

Found a hidden gem in a article about Arden/Hubert;

 

 

https://www.motorspo...hubert/4537654/

 

How the hell can you be on course for points when you, whilst running well out of the points mind you, spin out with 25(!) laps to go?  :stoned:

 

 

Edit: Spelling

 

Well, Raghunathan scored a point in the end, so it's a reasonable assumption that Calderón would have beaten him home had she kept it on track.



#2178 sportyskells

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 14:58

DE vies to Formula E confirmed. When will we get news of who will be the sad replacement for Hubert and a sub for Correa (I expecting 20 cars next round at Sochi)



#2179 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 15:07

now we’re watching them at the front of the second tier trying to pretend that they’re in some way the next big F1 stars.

 

Surely the solution would be for F2 to offer paid drives and a higher commercial profile with genuine commercial sponsorship, so that dropped F1 drivers such as Vandoorne, Vergne and Werhlein will happily drop from F1 back to F2? :)

 

Why shouldn't F2 have the hive of sponsor activity that FE has?  :confused:


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 11 September 2019 - 15:12.


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#2180 SenorSjon

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 15:16

F2 shouldn't oust its champion.



#2181 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 15:18

Surely the solution would be for F2 to offer paid drives and a higher commercial profile with genuine commercial sponsorship, so that dropped F1 drivers such as Vandoorne, Vergne and Werhlein will happily drop from F1 back to F2? :)

 

Why shouldn't F2 have the hive of sponsor activity that FE has?  :confused:

 

Because it has nothing to offer you can't get elsewhere? The manufacturers and sponsors like the E in Formula E, F2 is just another single seater series. 



#2182 zanquis

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 19:48

I would not sign anybody from this seasons F2 drivers. Really mediocre grid we have this year. 

 


Last year only had 1 strong driver and that was Russell. De Vries, Albon and Norris where performing on very similar levels. Basically in this order regarding outright speed but in reversed order regarding reliability and tire management. Norris has adapted well to F1 and is shown to be a star despite being often the slowest of the 4 drivers in F2 last year. This year de Vries has basically a walk over and only his weak ass start gave opportunity for Latifi to present himself as if he wasn't the Latifi we know he is. I kinda expected him to secure the title in Monza already but well things happened. Giotto and Latifi should be challenging/beating de Vries with their experience but they wheren't close last year and this year they need a miracle. I mean they need to rise far above their current level while de Vries scores nothing. 2019 is a transition year, where the talented drivers where supposed to mature. I think it is good that de Vries was still there as a bench mark to demonstrate that Latifi and Ghiotto aren't ready for F1 yet. I hope for next year, Aitken looks promising as he improves, Zhou is imprissing sometimes.

#2183 zanquis

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 19:53

DE vies to Formula E confirmed. When will we get news of who will be the sad replacement for Hubert and a sub for Correa (I expecting 20 cars next round at Sochi)

 


I kind of hope that for replacement drivers they look to someone like Chadwick. It just might be too big a step for her, but Calderon is giving female drivers a bad representation at the moment.

#2184 Kev00

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 22:25


I kind of hope that for replacement drivers they look to someone like Chadwick. It just might be too big a step for her, but Calderon is giving female drivers a bad representation at the moment.


I think Chadwick would only be bringing up the rear anyway. I really like her, but she hasn’t been that impressive in single seaters. Maybe even F3 would be too big a step.

#2185 zanquis

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 11:16

I think Chadwick would only be bringing up the rear anyway. I really like her, but she hasn’t been that impressive in single seaters. Maybe even F3 would be too big a step.

 


Well it seems Calderon will go the other way around now. THis could be interesting for comparison. But I rather compare any results to her GP3 timing as I feel it is more representive of Calderon's true speed than this years F2 where she can't seem to get adjusted to the car.