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2019 FIA Formula 2 Championship - Season Thread


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#2451 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 09:59

Driving standards in F2 really have nosedived haven’t they?

Glad they’re both okay but totally avoidable.

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#2452 as65p

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 10:00

don`t call me stupid but it is in the drivers dna to push anytime they feel tarmac under the weels ... so this is fia fault with tarmac run off areas 

 

You're reducing their intelligence level to that of dogs, capable of little more than pavlov reflexes. Well, maybe, in some cases... :cat:



#2453 ANF

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 10:05

I knew I had seen something like today's start accident before...




Edited by ANF, 29 September 2019 - 10:06.


#2454 haryantofan666

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 10:05

Aitken followed the rules to return to track, Mazepin didn't, it was this that causes the collision. If Mazepin did what he was supposed to do there would have been no collision.

Aitken followed the rules haha? Look at his onboard, the guy is nuts. He totally floored it and barely got around the bollard. He overtook Mazepin off track and then hit him. Mazepin went over the curbs, he had no obligation to go left off the bollard



#2455 milestone 11

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 10:05

Aitken should get a ban. Why are some of you putting this on Mazepin? Mazepin was ahead of Aitken. It was Aitken who tried to overtake Mazepin by flooring it on the run off, then he hit Mazepin, who uncontrollably hit the other car.


Jesus Christ! Mazepin made no attempt whatsoever to drive the tarmac runoff as per the rules.

#2456 milestone 11

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 10:08

Driving standards in F2 really have nosedived haven’t they?

Yeah. No. Don't overreact.  ;)

#2457 Anja

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 10:14

Aitken followed the rules haha? Look at his onboard, the guy is nuts. He totally floored it and barely got around the bollard. He overtook Mazepin off track and then hit him. Mazepin went over the curbs, he had no obligation to go left off the bollard

 

Slowing down would be sensible, yes, but the rules don't say anything specific about speed. You're meant to follow the correct route and the rest is just the classic ambiguous "rejoin in a safe manner". 



#2458 Massa

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 10:22

Aitken followed the rules haha? Look at his onboard, the guy is nuts. He totally floored it and barely got around the bollard. He overtook Mazepin off track and then hit him. Mazepin went over the curbs, he had no obligation to go left off the bollard


Come on.

Mazepin had to rejoin like Aitken did. Instead, he race off track, don't follow the rules and then collect another driver.

100% on him the rule is the rule.

#2459 Jellyfishcake

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 10:35

Aitken followed the rules haha? Look at his onboard, the guy is nuts. He totally floored it and barely got around the bollard. He overtook Mazepin off track and then hit him. Mazepin went over the curbs, he had no obligation to go left off the bollard

 

 

I don't think you know the rules, 

 

Whilst I don't like drivers speeding up in run offs, nothing says they can't do it, Aitkin was doing exactly what he was required to do whereas Mazepin was (and has previous) driving incorrectly through run offs...



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#2460 Clatter

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 10:45

Aitken followed the rules to return to track, Mazepin didn't, it was this that causes the collision. If Mazepin did what he was supposed to do there would have been no collision.

 


No he didn't. He may have followed the rule for going around the bollards, but totally ignored the rule about only returning when safe to do so.

#2461 haryantofan666

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 14:22

Yep, not to mention the rule that says you can't overtake other cars by shortcutting the track. The guy put 2 guys in the hospital. Enough is enough. The time has come for some action so these things wont happen again in the future.



#2462 Silberpfeil

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 14:39

Have you people actually looked at the replay? Aitken didn’t rejoin right into a gaggle of cars, because they were all way behind…

And the only unfortunate exception to that was Matsushita, who was literally on the other side of the track. Yeah, very unsafe rejoin that. What‘s Aitken supposed to do, stop and wait until everyone has passed him by, or slow down until he does actually rejoin right into 15 other cars all fighting for the same piece of track? Nothing at all would‘ve happened had Mazepin not skipped the entire rejoin procedure and collected Aitken.

Yes, the situation with these rejoin roads needs to be addressed, but only the willfully obtuse would seriously put most of blame of today’s crash on Aitken. He may have broken the spirit of the rule, but followed it to the letter. Mazepin did both, and in rather impressive fashion, I might add.

#2463 Anja

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 14:41

https://www.racefans...-huge-f2-crash/

 

Not surprisingly, a big penalty for Mazepin. 



#2464 ANF

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 14:44

I believe this medical update was published a couple of hours ago:

Update: Matsushita and Mazepin

Carlin and ART Grand Prix drivers uninjured

Nobuharu Matsushita and Nikita Mazepin have both been confirmed as uninjured following their heavy collision in today’s Sprint Race.

The duo collided during the opening lap of the race, which brought out a red flag. Mazepin was able to get out of the car himself, while Matushita was helped out by the medical crews.

They were both conscious and taken to Sochi hospital for precautionary checks, which have revealed that they are both well.

Nikita Mazepin has been declared fit following these checks. Scans for Nobuharu Matsushita revealed no injuries, however he will remain in the hospital overnight for another precautionary scan tomorrow.

http://www.fiaformul...ta-and-Mazepin/


#2465 ANF

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 14:46

https://www.racefans...-huge-f2-crash/
 
Not surprisingly, a big penalty for Mazepin.

15 grid positions and 4 penalty points! You don't get any closer to a race ban than that, do you?

#2466 Muppetmad

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 15:03

Aitken followed the rules haha? Look at his onboard, the guy is nuts. He totally floored it and barely got around the bollard. He overtook Mazepin off track and then hit him. Mazepin went over the curbs, he had no obligation to go left off the bollard

“Having considered the matter extensively, the stewards determined that car 01 [sic] arrived at the entrance of turn two at an excessively high rate of speed and unable to negotiate the corner on the track. Car 03 [Mazepin] then forced car 15 [Aitken] off the track.

“After both cars left the track, car 15 successfully negotiated the Styrofoam blocks in the runoff area, as directed by the race director’s notes. Car 03 did not follow that same directed path, thereby short cutting the runoff area, resulting in a collision with first car 15 and then car 02 [Matsushita], resulting in car 02’s retirement and causing a red flag in the race.
“Car 03 is judged wholly at fault for the incident.”
In addition to his penalty, Mazepin was given four penalty points on his licence, putting him on a total of five.
“Because, in the opinion of the stewards, the driver of Car 03 caused this incident by a total lack of due care for his fellow drivers and caused a bad incident that could have been much worse, the unusually large number of grid positions in the penalty and the large number of penalty points are assessed,” the stewards added.
 
Quoted from the link above, just for the record. Honestly though, this was all very clear from the outset.



#2467 Lennat

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 16:23

It's time to get rid of these stupid tarmac runoffs.

#2468 haryantofan666

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 16:38

“Having considered the matter extensively, the stewards determined that car 01 [sic] arrived at the entrance of turn two at an excessively high rate of speed and unable to negotiate the corner on the track. Car 03 [Mazepin] then forced car 15 [Aitken] off the track.

“After both cars left the track, car 15 successfully negotiated the Styrofoam blocks in the runoff area, as directed by the race director’s notes. Car 03 did not follow that same directed path, thereby short cutting the runoff area, resulting in a collision with first car 15 and then car 02 [Matsushita], resulting in car 02’s retirement and causing a red flag in the race.
“Car 03 is judged wholly at fault for the incident.”
In addition to his penalty, Mazepin was given four penalty points on his licence, putting him on a total of five.
“Because, in the opinion of the stewards, the driver of Car 03 caused this incident by a total lack of due care for his fellow drivers and caused a bad incident that could have been much worse, the unusually large number of grid positions in the penalty and the large number of penalty points are assessed,” the stewards added.
 
Quoted from the link above, just for the record. Honestly though, this was all very clear from the outset.

I must have watched a different race then. Mazepin did not force Aitken off the road. Mazepin was well ahead, Aitken could have made the corner if he himself had slowed down enough.

 

Again, race stewards :down:

 

It seems like theyre trying to come up with things just to justify their decision. Again ignoring the real problem which is the stupid runoff tarmac and drivers abusing them.



#2469 Jackman

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 17:07

I'd suggest you re-watch it: Mazepin went too deep, Aitken couldn't make the corner because the Russian was in the way so he went wide to ensure he made both sets of barriers, Mazepin didn't realise he had gone too deep until it was too late and he ran straight across the run off to try and pip Aitken, missed the first set of barriers and tried to squeeze out Aitken, who didn't see the Russian until it was too late because there shouldn't be a car coming from there, and they inevitably crashed, setting up the pinball into Matsushita crash.

It was all avoidable if Mazepin was sensible, but he's never shown that proclivity before. And, sadly, it's unlikely that this penalty will sink in, because he can't qualify well enough for 15 spots to be counted.

#2470 Atreiu

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 18:23

Driving standards are videogame like horrendous.

Another scored point for tarmac run off being part of the problem and encouraging all sort of abuse and recklessness.

#2471 Atreiu

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 01:06

And that idiot should have been handed a pit lane start and be placed under some sort of supervision for the next 6 months under the risk of outright race bans.

#2472 beachdrifter

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 01:12

I keep forgetting to watch the races, and then I see the results somewhere by accident, spoiling the fun. Another 2 DNFs for Schumacher? What's going on?



#2473 Myrvold

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 03:53

15 grid positions and 4 penalty points! You don't get any closer to a race ban than that, do you?

Heh, when I saw Autosport using the headline "harsh penalty" I honestly expected more than a 15 place grid drip.

 

As for the penalty points, only our dear backmarker have ever racked up enough of them to get a race ban, so I don't think that will be an issue. Actually, Mazepin can do the exact same thing once more, and then do like Vettel did in Monza, and that's still not 12 points...



#2474 Myrvold

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 03:59

No he didn't. He may have followed the rule for going around the bollards, but totally ignored the rule about only returning when safe to do so.

For it to be an unsafe re-join, you actually need to re-join the track. The contact happened off the track.

 

Yep, not to mention the rule that says you can't overtake other cars by shortcutting the track. The guy put 2 guys in the hospital. Enough is enough. The time has come for some action so these things wont happen again in the future.

The rule say you cannot gain a lasting advantage, it also mentions by being outside the track limits. However, when two cars are outside track limits, then there are no rules that says Car A cannot go off the track together with, but behind Car B and then re-join the track ahead of Car B. The rule is so you cannot gain a lasting advantage on the cars that stick to the track.
Also, as the rule is about the lasting advantage, you can re-join ahead of a car you were behind when you left it, however you have to let the other guy by as soon as it is possible and safe to do.



#2475 SenorSjon

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 08:16

Mazepin would have never hit Aitken if he did the proper run-off route.



#2476 Anja

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 10:58

Heh, when I saw Autosport using the headline "harsh penalty" I honestly expected more than a 15 place grid drip.

 

Welcome to 2019. For whatever reason the penalties are much more lenient these days than they were even a few years ago, if it happened right now there's no way Grosjean would get a race ban for his Spa 2012 accident for example. I have no idea why that's happening. 


Edited by Anja, 30 September 2019 - 10:59.


#2477 SenorSjon

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 11:39

In 2012, the penalty system didn't excist. Grosjean was partly the instigator of that, because he was at it all season long and usually got away with it.



#2478 messy

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 11:50

Heh, when I saw Autosport using the headline "harsh penalty" I honestly expected more than a 15 place grid drip.

 

As for the penalty points, only our dear backmarker have ever racked up enough of them to get a race ban, so I don't think that will be an issue. Actually, Mazepin can do the exact same thing once more, and then do like Vettel did in Monza, and that's still not 12 points...

 

A 15 place penalty isn't particularly harsh when you usually qualify 17th out of 20 anyway...



#2479 Montie

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 16:25

Mazepin got of easy, too easy if you ask me.

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#2480 Myrvold

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 17:39

Michael Masi: Severe Mazepin F2 penalty can't be underestimated

 

"You see the penalty that's been handed out in F2, four penalty points and 15 grid spots is a pretty significant penalty which shows the severity of what happened."

 

If you are wholly at fault for A) Not following the penalty route, causing B) Hitting another driver and C) Hitting yet another driver. And it is deemed a severe, significant and harsh penalty to get 4 penalty points and a 15 place grid drop... Eh.



#2481 Bleu

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 17:57

With most other cases 3 points has been maximum for one incident. This is actually first time I've seen someone getting more. But then again, I can see it 1 point for not following the route and 3 points for causing a collision.

 

In general with 12 points being the limit for ban, I think the maximum in general should be higher - 6 would make sense so two of the most serious incidents would cause ban.



#2482 William Hunt

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 17:59

a race ban would have been more appropriate imho



#2483 Jellyfishcake

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 18:01

I do worry about Masi, he doesn't seem to have any conviction. 

 

It's almost as if they think a 15 place grid drop is a massive thing, in F2 that can sometimes mean nothing if you start on the alternative strategist, plus Mazepin has a grand total of 3 points finishes this season so it's hardly a punishment from that front.

 

Also 4 points is pointless, if you are trying to set a precent on a harsh punishment how is 1 point more than the normal amount of 3, severe?



#2484 Muppetmad

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 19:32

Yeah, I'd have gone straight for 12 penalty points and had Mazepin sit out the weekend in Abu Dhabi. Such monumentally flawed racing logic needs to be punished in the strongest terms to ensure that the offending driver fully recognises the severity of their actions and to make clear to the rest of the field going forward what the basic standard will be.


Edited by Muppetmad, 30 September 2019 - 19:33.


#2485 ANF

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 19:56

I don't know, I think a race ban would have been too harsh. Sure, Mazepin should have gone around the white block before he rejoined the track, but the circuit design and rejoin route in Sochi is so bad that it's only surpassed in stupidity by the monumentally flawed pit entry and pit exit at Yeongam. https://youtu.be/tVBXpmCq8VQ

#2486 Silberpfeil

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 10:54

I was left very impressed by Mick Schumacher‘s podcast interview with Alex Jacques – Mick was quite self-reflective and praising the virtues of motorsport and F1 in particular being a team sport.

He also said that, despite the win in Hungary, Austria was his strongest weekend this year, which shows to me that he has a very good handle on priorities.

#2487 Risil

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 10:40

Penalty points are a good idea for the accumulation of medium-serious infractions so the stewards can punish a pattern of behaviour in a transparent way. It also gives a driver time to change their behaviour before they get a ban, instead of it being slaps on the wrist until something really terrible happens. A good way to deal with clumsy driving and minor recklessness.

I don't think they work so well at dealing with "What the hell were you thinking?" gross rule breaking, like Vettel at Baku two years ago or Mazepin at Sochi. It's absurd to say you can do this three or four times before you'll get a significant, real-world sanction.

#2488 mangeliiito

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 16:16

Can't find a 2020 thread, if there is one. But if you want to do another championship along side F2 next year, what series can yuu do?

#2489 balage06

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 16:34

Can't find a 2020 thread, if there is one. But if you want to do another championship along side F2 next year, what series can yuu do?

 

Depends on your goal and budget. Super Formula would be a logical choice, although there will be two clashes between the calendars. WEC is also a possibility, but the season has already started. 



#2490 SenorSjon

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 18:29

Only 1 championship a year can give you SL points.

#2491 messy

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 19:05

Fukuzumi did a split F2/Super Formula campaign in 2018, without a great deal of success in either.



#2492 SpaceHorseParty

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 19:53

Only 1 championship a year can give you SL points.

Can drivers choose whether a two-year championship (like FE or WEC) counts for the first or the second year?



#2493 Myrvold

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 20:16

Can drivers choose whether a two-year championship (like FE or WEC) counts for the first or the second year?


It counts when it ends is my understanding.

#2494 Sterzo

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 09:55

Can't find a 2020 thread, if there is one. But if you want to do another championship along side F2 next year, what series can yuu do?

W Series.



#2495 mangeliiito

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 15:10

I figured out DTM could work to, only one clash if I got my numbers right.

#2496 Marklar

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 14:38

Lundgaard to get the Trident seat in Abu Dhabi http://www.fiaformul...t-with-Trident/

#2497 noikeee

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 14:53

Lundgaard to get the Trident seat in Abu Dhabi http://www.fiaformul...t-with-Trident/


Preparation for a full F2 campaign next year already? I would've thought he'd bide his time and stay in F3 to try to win it.

#2498 Muppetmad

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 15:30

I think Lundgaard is promising enough to make the step up. Depending on which team he ends up with, he may not be a title contender immediately, but a 2021 title push should be the goal.



#2499 Emilvang

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 21:04

I think Lundgaard is promising enough to make the step up. Depending on which team he ends up with, he may not be a title contender immediately, but a 2021 title push should be the goal.

 

I think Formula 1 is the ultimate goal for him in 2021. Renault is looking to add a junior driver to one of their seats.