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Top 10 F1 Drives [Split Topic]


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#51 ensign14

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 08:33

J-PB did put in a number of good performances.  Being second or third string Matra to Jackie Stewart was not a particularly plum seat.  But he was within a gnat's crotchet of winning Italy 1969, for instance. 

 

But he wasn't alone in having a few moments in the sun; Pedro Rodriguez, Jo Siffert &c were often thereabouts but not often there.  It was a hypercompetitive era.  And it was sometimes horses for courses.  The BRMs in the early seventies shone in the power races (Spa, Monza); the slowing of circuits took away their engine advantage.



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#52 screamingV16

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 08:42

I generally agree. In fact Spa 96 ( despite the minor help from the SC ) was more impressive.  The F310 was really a crap car.

 

Yep, I've always thought that. Schumacher had a car set up for the wet in Spain, his opponents didn't, which is a big advantage. Spa was much more impressive. Wasn't his car also pulling to one sideor was it just bad handling? Seem to remember him going through Eua Rouge again and again with unusual steering input.



#53 sopa

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 08:46

 

But he wasn't alone in having a few moments in the sun; Pedro Rodriguez, Jo Siffert &c were often thereabouts but not often there.  It was a hypercompetitive era. 

 

That's food for thought. Nowadays we don't get stunning performances out of nowhere, with perhaps one of the last ones being Hulkenberg in Brazil '12.

 

My personal guess is that in the old days everything was more hit-and-miss, and this included setup. I remember some Colin Chapman interview, where he said that particularly in wet weather we get a lot of surprising results, because it's very hard to predict weather and get your setup right. So whoever rolls the dice and gets lucky with sweetspot, could find a significant advantage. Not so much any more.



#54 Traction

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 08:46

I'll be very surprised if Donnington 93 is not in the top 3.

 

Also there will likely be another schumacher drive. What about (stuck in 5th gear) Spain '94?



#55 haryantofan666

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 08:52

The top 10 drives of all time
Curated by David Tremayne for F1.com
Not to be confused with top 10 races


9. Canada 2011 Button
8. Silverstone 2008 Hamilton
 

 

9. Very poor driving by Button, putting first his teammate in the wall, then later t-boning Alonso. Then Vettel does his usual spin in the last lap and Button gets handed the victory after hours of red flags and utter boredom.

 

8. Silverstone 2008. Raikkonen looked faster than Hamilton but then Ferrari pits him and puts him on the wrong tyres. Hamilton gets gifted the win and looks mega fast compared to the rest. The thing I remember that race for is not Hamilton's drive but Felipe Massa spinning 42 times.



#56 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 08:58

Hamilton was utterly brilliant at Silverstone 2008. You can argue if it should be in an 'all time top 10 drives' list but it's not far off.

Button Canada 2011 I tend to agree.

#57 Henri Greuter

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 08:58

J-PB did put in a number of good performances.  Being second or third string Matra to Jackie Stewart was not a particularly plum seat.  But he was within a gnat's crotchet of winning Italy 1969, for instance. 
 
But he wasn't alone in having a few moments in the sun; Pedro Rodriguez, Jo Siffert &c were often thereabouts but not often there.  It was a hypercompetitive era.  And it was sometimes horses for courses.  The BRMs in the early seventies shone in the power races (Spa, Monza); the slowing of circuits took away their engine advantage.



really? I have read stories about the BRM V12 in its latest versions since '73 being barely more powerful than a Cosworth but without the better fuel efficiency of a cossie....

#58 Henri Greuter

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 09:16

With Donington 1993, as well as Senna not rating it, I think a lot of people forget that it was actually very close with Prost anyway for much of the race (with Prost getting ahead for a bit when Senna had a delayed stop) and it only became dominant later on because of Prost stalling and making extra stops. If Prost's race hadn't derailed, Senna would have won by a bit and it wouldn't be so remembered.


Could be....

But up till 1992: rain had always been the great equalizer within a race, pretty much making all cars closer to another and allowing drivers of lesser cars to shine due to their skills.
In Doningron '93 this was not the case at all anymore, if fact it was the opposite.
You had roughly the following cars in the starting field:

Class 1: Cars fitted with traction control and active susspension
Class 2: Cars fitted with traction control
Class 3: Cars fitted with active
Class 4: Cars without any of these aids.

In that race, Class 1 and 2 stood out above all other cars, no matter who drove them.
Senna himself stated that this particular race was kind of easy for him because of the traction control he had while so many other drivers had not. can recall having read something about a grand total of only 8 cars been fitted with traction control in that race. Williams was one of course.
But all other cars not, which effectively virtually eliminated them from being a factor in that race. Something Like Brazil '81 when Surer brought in a hopeless Ensign in 4th due to his skills was impossible at Donington.

Senna himself had more praise for his other rain races in which he was victorious or excelled (Montreal '89 comes to mind)

Ravelling about Senna beating everyone that race so handsomely isn't fair to the majority of the field who simply lacked the tool needed that day: traction control. Kudos to him for acknowledging this all the time.
This race, and the aftermath of Brazil '93 are the two rain races in which the field had been the least equal of all rain races ever held

#59 sopa

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 09:48

In Doningron '93 this was not the case at all anymore, if fact it was the opposite.
You had roughly the following cars in the starting field:

Class 1: Cars fitted with traction control and active susspension
Class 2: Cars fitted with traction control
Class 3: Cars fitted with active
Class 4: Cars without any of these aids.
 

 

Did Jordan have any of the gizmos in Donington '93? Because Barrichello drove an incredible race battling for podium.



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#60 cheekybru

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 10:37

I think there's a lot of Lewis races being overlooked here :p

#61 Henri Greuter

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 10:37

Did Jordan have any of the gizmos in Donington '93? Because Barrichello drove an incredible race battling for podium.


Yes, traction control. Anyone with more info, correct me. But I kind of remember they made use of software and components of a FWD Ford production car. But how much of that was true? Given Eddie Jordan's reputations .....

Edited by Henri Greuter, 09 April 2019 - 10:42.


#62 7MGTEsup

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 10:57

Mansell Hungary 1989? 12th on the grid  and won in a dry race with no safety cars or DRS in sight and on the old layout is a pretty good shout for a top 10 place.



#63 messy

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 11:04

Tend to think that, actually, the 'best drives of all time' are probably the less spectacular ones, like one of Hakkinen's demonstration runs from pole circa 1998/99, or one of the races where Lewis Hamilton has utterly destroyed Vettel and finished twenty seconds up on his team-mate. But they're not as dramatic, so something like Button Canada 2011 (when F1 went full on Indycar) or Hakkinen Spa 2000 (where Mika had to recover after spinning off) get the nod.

#64 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 11:15

I think it depends what sort of requirements you put on it. For myself it's heavily skewed with context (performance of car, did they win a straight duel with a rival etc), an 'against the odds' element, a pressure indicator (how critical was that result and what sort of pressure was applied) and what sort of circumstances/elements were they dealing with (such as extreme weather, car issues etc).

A pole to win performance, especially if they clearly have the best car on that day, I don't place a huge emphasis on. If your champion material, that should be par for the course.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 09 April 2019 - 11:20.


#65 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 11:39

Don't think I have seen Alain Prost mentioned yet. Travesty.

1986 Belgian GP - after an incident at the start, from dead last he finished 6th. With bent engine mountings... John Barnard ranked it one of the greatest drives he's seen given the condition of the car.

1990 Mexican Grand Prix - from 13th sliced his way through the field to 1st and was untouchable on a day there was chaos all around him.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 09 April 2019 - 11:40.


#66 MrAerodynamicist

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 11:39

Mansell - Hungary '89. 12th to 1st at the Hungaroring without rain or SC help shouldn't be possible.

#67 Jovanotti

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 11:44

Has #3 already been posted?
https://www.formula1...yIvWvjGKNN.html

#68 TomNokoe

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 11:51

10. Spain 1996 Schumacher
9. Canada 2011 Button
8. Silverstone 2008 Hamilton
7. Monza 1976 Lauda
6. Spain 1981 G Villeneuve
5. Nurburgring 1957 Fangio
4. Brazil 1991 Senna

3. Nurburgring 1961 Stirling Moss

https://www.formula1...yIvWvjGKNN.html

Jova beat me :-)


Edited by TomNokoe, 09 April 2019 - 11:51.


#69 PayasYouRace

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 12:16

Mansell Hungary 1989? 12th on the grid  and won in a dry race with no safety cars or DRS in sight and on the old layout is a pretty good shout for a top 10 place.

  

Mansell - Hungary '89. 12th to 1st at the Hungaroring without rain or SC help shouldn't be possible.


That and either of John Watson’s US street circuit comeback wins too: Detroit 82 or Long Beach 83.

#70 TomNokoe

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 12:47

Moss at Monaco 1961 should be up there, even if arguably not even his best drive that month!

You were close EB! Presumably you were referring to Zandvoort later in the month.

Nurburgring 1961 was 3 months later, of course.



#71 crespo

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 12:48

Alonso Hungary 06?



#72 dierome87

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 13:43

Singapore 2010. 

 

Lights to flag win for Fernando despite immense pressure from Vettel. Flawless drive.

 

Malaysia 2012 was also a brilliant drive. I would have never expected him to win that race after lap 1.


Edited by dierome87, 09 April 2019 - 13:44.


#73 Sterzo

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 14:15

Great story about Beltoise.

 

What baffles me is that he could perform a true giant-killing performance only once in his career. Or at the very least these must have been very few and far between. How did this happen?

One factor would be his damaged arm. You'd think a twisty Monaco would be a big problem, but if I recall correctly the arm lacked strength, so a dry Parabolica would be difficult, but a soaked, low grip Monte Carlo wouldn't put too much stress through it.

 

How wet was it? It was the slowest F1 race on record, and they probably would have red flagged it in later eras.



#74 jcbc3

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 15:54

The one with Hamilton was Lewis' fault, ...


I disagree. But that's just an opinion.

#75 E.B.

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 16:23

You were close EB! Presumably you were referring to Zandvoort later in the month.
Nurburgring 1961 was 3 months later, of course.


I was thinking of the Intercontinental race at Silverstone when he lapped the entire field in about 30 laps after taking the lead. Admittedly it wasn't F1 (though the engines were much bigger), and without Ferrari it was a very weak field (eg Jim Clark, Jack Brabham, Graham Hill, John Surtees etc).

#76 Atreiu

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 16:36

Top 10 I've watched.

 

Senna at Donington 1993

Schumacher at Suzuka 2000

Kimi at Suzuka 2005

Hamilton at Silverstone 2008

Prost at Mexico 1990

Hakkinen at Nurburgring 1998

Senna at Hungaroring 1991

Vettel at Nurburgring 2013

Hamilton at Monza 2018

Schumacher at China 2006

 

They are in no particular order. Schumi's own top 10 list would already be absurd. Hamilton is threading the same path if he keeps it up for much longer.

 

I'm sure there are other terrific lists.



#77 Atreiu

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 16:41

Singapore 2010. 

 

Lights to flag win for Fernando despite immense pressure from Vettel. Flawless drive.

 

Malaysia 2012 was also a brilliant drive. I would have never expected him to win that race after lap 1.

 

 

I thought of it, but Singapore's characteristics made defensive driving a lot easier. If it were Spa or Silverstone, I would have out it in my list. Still a great day for him, schooled Vettel that whole weekend. Deserves and honerable mention.



#78 Atreiu

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 16:43

The attemtp at desmistifying Donington 1993 appears like a clockwork in a thread like this.

 

Fine, Estoril 85.



#79 Oho

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 16:59

I generally agree. In fact Spa 96 ( despite the minor help from the SC ) was more impressive.  The F310 was really a crap car.

 

1996 Ferrari? Really, it had horrible reliability with a piston failing on warmup lap in France for example but I thought it was pretty fast in relation to competition. IICR Ferrari drivers on the average qualified higher in 1996 than they did in 1997.



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#80 Spillage

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 17:06

Singapore 2010.

Lights to flag win for Fernando despite immense pressure from Vettel. Flawless drive.

Malaysia 2012 was also a brilliant drive. I would have never expected him to win that race after lap 1.

Valencia 2012 is his best for me. Absolutely sublime driving that day, and some fantastic overtaking as well.

#81 Nonesuch

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 17:09

IICR Ferrari drivers on the average qualified higher in 1996 than they did in 1997.


Correct; average qualifying position (rank):

1996
Schumacher: 2.6 (2nd)
Irvine: 7.1 (7th)

1997
Schumacher: 3.7 (3rd)
Irvine: 9.4 (12th)


Edited by Nonesuch, 09 April 2019 - 17:14.


#82 Fatgadget

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 17:14

Oh... then 1st= must be Montoya Pau '97 and Hockenheim 03.

But of course you are not biased are you Podium! :D

 

...Most memorable drive for me was  Senna unceremoniously taking out Prost. And  Mansell vs Prost when Mansell's Goodyear gave up the ghost!..And people bitch about Pirrelis these day..


Edited by Fatgadget, 09 April 2019 - 17:48.


#83 Laminar

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 17:15

Alonso Sepang 2012, won a race with a car that qualified 9th and was truly trash.



#84 CSF

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 17:33

Brazil 91 the 4th best drive of all time?  :cat:

 

Alonso Sepang 2012, won a race with a car that qualified 9th and was truly trash.

 

 

Perez in a Sauber should have won with a car that qualified 10th.  :drunk:



#85 Fatgadget

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 18:00

Brazil 91 the 4th best drive of all time?  :cat:

 

 

 

Perez in a Sauber should have won with a car that qualified 10th.  :drunk:

John Watson won from right at the back of the grid...John Who?



#86 eibyyz

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 18:04

Prost, South Africa 1982.  Senna, Brasil 1991.  

 

(Hon Ment: Bill Elliott, 1985, first Talladega.  also 1988, second Daytona.)



#87 messy

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 19:07

Correct; average qualifying position (rank):1996
Schumacher: 2.6 (2nd)
Irvine: 7.1 (7th)1997
Schumacher: 3.7 (3rd)
Irvine: 9.4 (12th)


Think that's deceptive to be honest. The 1997 Ferrari was the better car and closer to the Williams - but the field was also more competitive all round with McLaren and Benetton, even Jordan, and the tyre war which meant on some weekends the Bridgestone cars jumped right up the grid too.

#88 CSF

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 19:16

John Watson won from right at the back of the grid...John Who?

 

 

Yes.



#89 Dicun

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 19:31

If Prost's magnificent 1990 Mexico performance won't end up on the list it will be a travesty. Started down from 13th on the grid and overtook Senna and Mansell on his way to victory - a truly mesmerising drive.



#90 JensonsButton

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 19:53

Anyone for a Nige, Silverstone ‘87?

#91 Bleu

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 20:19

My guess is that top 3 doesn't include anything from the drivers already listed.



#92 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 20:29

Think that's deceptive to be honest. The 1997 Ferrari was the better car and closer to the Williams - but the field was also more competitive all round with McLaren and Benetton, even Jordan, and the tyre war which meant on some weekends the Bridgestone cars jumped right up the grid too.

This. Though I do agree with Oho that the 1996 Ferrari was nowhere near as bad as people make out. Relative to the competition that is, only the Williams was miles ahead in 1996.

People tend to point to Irvine... but perhaps he wasn't quite getting everything out of it. Whereas Schumacher was doing that and more.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 09 April 2019 - 20:29.


#93 noikeee

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 21:09

I think arguing about advantages etc... we can all find un-perfect things in any great drive.

 

Someone earlier mentioned Suzuka 2005 so yesterday I stayed up to unreasonable hours watching it on F1TV. I'm a Kimi fan and criminally had never watched it (by then I was only starting to come back to F1 after a few years break, and with the championship decided I wasn't going to wake up early), so I guess just had to watch it once. Wonderful race, stunning drive and overtake for the win on the final lap, but hey what sleeping drugs was Fisichella given? Dude was not so far from being caught by his team-mate who started a whole grid behind him and was held up the entire race. Also with JPM smashing his car on lap 1 you didn't really have any other measurement for how quick the McLaren was that day.

 

I'm pretty sure any drive in history you can find similar things to be negative about in this tone.



#94 scheivlak

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 21:47

I think arguing about advantages etc... we can all find un-perfect things in any great drive.

 

Someone earlier mentioned Suzuka 2005 so yesterday I stayed up to unreasonable hours watching it on F1TV. I'm a Kimi fan and criminally had never watched it (by then I was only starting to come back to F1 after a few years break, and with the championship decided I wasn't going to wake up early), so I guess just had to watch it once. Wonderful race, stunning drive and overtake for the win on the final lap, but hey what sleeping drugs was Fisichella given? Dude was not so far from being caught by his team-mate who started a whole grid behind him and was held up the entire race. Also with JPM smashing his car on lap 1 you didn't really have any other measurement for how quick the McLaren was that day.

 

I'm pretty sure any drive in history you can find similar things to be negative about in this tone.

Fisichella was just being Fisichella. No sleeping drugs needed.



#95 P123

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 22:09

I think arguing about advantages etc... we can all find un-perfect things in any great drive.
 
Someone earlier mentioned Suzuka 2005 so yesterday I stayed up to unreasonable hours watching it on F1TV. I'm a Kimi fan and criminally had never watched it (by then I was only starting to come back to F1 after a few years break, and with the championship decided I wasn't going to wake up early), so I guess just had to watch it once. Wonderful race, stunning drive and overtake for the win on the final lap, but hey what sleeping drugs was Fisichella given? Dude was not so far from being caught by his team-mate who started a whole grid behind him and was held up the entire race. Also with JPM smashing his car on lap 1 you didn't really have any other measurement for how quick the McLaren was that day.
 
I'm pretty sure any drive in history you can find similar things to be negative about in this tone.


Ahem, crowded off by Villeneuve who had just re-joined the track after jumping the chicane.

#96 noikeee

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 22:19

Ahem, crowded off by Villeneuve who had just re-joined the track after jumping the chicane.


Well I didn't say he had smashed his car voluntarily...

#97 Afterburner

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 22:40

I can’t believe we’re this far into the thread yet and have had no mention of Damon Hill’s drive at Hungary in 1997, although admittedly the only reason I’m aware this exists is because it was the last challenge on the F1 1997 video game. :lol:

I can only rate the races I’ve seen from champions I’ve seen drive:

Hamilton - Silverstone 2008 (honourable mention to Hockenheim 2018)
Vettel - Monza 2008 (honourable mention to Singapore 2013)
Raikkonen - Suzuka 2005 (honourable mention to Spa 2009)
Alonso - Hungary 2014 (honourable mention to Hungary 2006, but alas...)
Rosberg - China 2012 (can’t think of another good one, honestly)
Button - Canada 2011 (honourable mention to Hungary 2006)
Schumacher - Indy 2003 (with an honourable mention to China 2006)

I’m sure Schumi has loads of others which I missed, but those are the best two I saw from him.

#98 messy

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:15

Fisichella was just being Fisichella. No sleeping drugs needed.


Fisichella's pre-Renault drives though, they might not warrant a place in this thread, but Spa 1997, Canada 1998, Brazil 2003, several of his performances for Sauber in 2004, he had an ability to magic a frontrunning result out of a midfield car and I personally thought the Renault drive was well overdue and that he'd do great. He didn't. Suzuka 2005 was a case in point, essentially missing an absolute open goal.

#99 sopa

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:44

Fisichella's "average" race performance was to be about 20-30 seconds slower than Alonso over race distance. I guess he was the same in Japan, just that he had a big headstart and no traffic to deal with.



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#100 Dicun

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:55

The attemtp at desmistifying Donington 1993 appears like a clockwork in a thread like this.

 

Fine, Estoril 85.

 

Well, Senna himself said that Donington 1993 was nowhere near as impressive a performance as Estoril 1985. 

 

 

 

Eight years on, in similar conditions, he would win for McLaren at Donington, his opening lap as mesmeric as any the sport has known, but Ayrton scoffed at those who thought it his greatest drive: “No way! I had traction control! It was a good win, sure, but compared with Estoril ’85 — turbo engine, a lot more power, no traction control, normal gearbox — it was nothing, really…”

 

I genuinely think even Senna wouldn't understand why his Donington drive is so overhyped by posterity.