29 replies to this topic

[PlayboyRacer]

Not sure if this is the right spot... but here goes anyway. Weber responding to some comments Bernie made a few days ago.

https://www.planetf1...acher-comments/

Now as far as I am aware, there has never been anything in the past where Schumacher admitted to plotting taking Villeneuve out at the World Championship finale at Jerez. This here seems to be, to my mind anyway, Weber admitting it was discussed well in advance and he actually encouraged Michael with it. 'If your going to do it... do it right....'

Is this the first time such comments have been made from the Schumacher camp? Thoughts?

We all know it was intentional - however if it's true they were discussing it at length well prior to the event, that seems to add another dimension to it.

Lets not forget, in comments leading up to Jerez, Jacques was pretty convinced Michael would try something in a straight duel.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 12 April 2019 - 03:26.

[Marklar]

If you have a manager who thinks like that then no wonder why Schumacher was involved in so much stuff.

“The fact is that Villeneuve actually invited him to drive into him. I told Michael: ‘If you do it, do it right, just as [Alain] Prost and [Ayrton] Senna did a dozen times.

“But he did it half-heartedly, because as a German he knew it was s***”.

What a piece of ****, going by that every 2nd incident is a invite to drive into someone, but yet somehow it doesnt happen, I wonder why.
 

“And yet now he talks like that about Schumi who cannot speak for himself,” Weber said.

Lame. Ecclestone would talk about him even if Schumacher could "defend" himself. Just because someone is unable to speak or dead it doesnt mean that you cant talk about their wrong-doings.
 

The 77-year-old also said he advised the seven-time World Champion not to return in 2010, but that he was motivated to succeed and set on a return.

“I actually advised Michael that he could not win, he could only lose,” he added.

“But he was simply inspired by the idea of succeeding again with his old friend Ross Brawn. The fruits were then harvested by Lewis Hamilton and Toto Wolff.”

Man, if Ferrari wins the championship this year I make sure to cash in that late credit for Alonso as well, cause apparently that's how it works!

 

We all know it was intentional - however if it's true they were discussing it at length well prior to the event, that seems to add another dimension to it.

Who knows, as Weber would say, Schumacher cant defend himself against Weber's comments rn, ha!

Edited by Marklar, 12 April 2019 - 03:39.

[PlayboyRacer]

Thanks for breaking up the comments in the article Marklar 👍

Just like you... I find this staggering. Surprised more noise isn't being made about it yet. Obviously it was a long time ago but he's talking about plotting the demise of a rival in a WDC fight. Pretty heavy stuff imo.

The other thing it proves imo is that Schumacher was conflicted. I have always thought that in how clumsy the attempt was. He turned away on instinct initially... then turned back in hard.

[HP]

This topic is one of those can of worms that seem reopen itself time after time.

 

The FIA determined that it was intentionally, so why the need of the media (and Ecclestone) to take it the from the shelves again?

[PlayboyRacer]

I don't think it's Ecclestones comments here that are surprising. More Webers... seems his lips have become a little loose with older age.

[Clatter]

Jerez only happened because the FIA allowed him to get away with it in Oz. I still think the almost bigger scandel was the meaningless punishment handed out.

[Dolph]

If you have a manager who thinks like that then no wonder why Schumacher was involved in so much stuff.
What a piece of ****, going by that every 2nd incident is a invite to drive into someone, but yet somehow it doesnt happen, I wonder why.

Lame. Ecclestone would talk about him even if Schumacher could "defend" himself. Just because someone is unable to speak or dead it doesnt mean that you cant talk about their wrong-doings.


Man, if Ferrari wins the championship this year I make sure to cash in that late credit for Alonso as well, cause apparently that's how it works!

Who knows, as Weber would say, Schumacher cant defend himself against Weber's comments rn, ha!

You get 10 points for the amount of hate

[ElectricBoogie]

Is Weber at the same clearance level as Jean Todt, casually dropping by the Schumis to watch some TV? If he isn't, why would an old man not fess up a bit? Loyalty and trust need to go both ways.

Flavio has not been hiding much, it seems, although I'd love to hear more about TC (short of the little Ford that could) in '94.

Murray Walker in the Beyond The Grid podcast is also happy to speak his mind against Senna over crashing Prost on purpose multiple times. But I be he did see years before. Absolute must-list, by the way. The man is sharp as a knife still at 95. I love the prase "forgetting more in a day than you will ever know" but to Murray it doesn't apply yet, he knows it all still.

No need to spread lies about those who aren't here to defend themselves, but let's not hide truth as we know it. Truth supersedes respect. 

[Knowlesy]

Jerez only happened because the FIA allowed him to get away with it in Oz. I still think the almost bigger scandel was the meaningless punishment handed out.

It was incredible.

Being awarded brackets round your final championship score sure encourages drivers to clean up their act.

But Michael wasn't that kind of driver. He was a good family man who would sometimes panic and instinctively ram his car into opponents, specifically in championship showdowns where he would benefit from such collisions.

Edited by Knowlesy, 12 April 2019 - 08:19.

[Spillage]

I was under the impression Schumacher had already admitted it. When he was on Top Gear Jeremy Clarkson made a joke about him taking out Damon Hill. He smiled, shrugged and said there are a lot of things he regrets.

[Nonesuch]

It's nice that Weber is willing to stand up for his long-time friend, even if Mrs. Schumacher has seen fit to put him on the Ignore List.

 

But the way he's gone about it is.... rather bad. It'd have been better for everyone if he just kept this to himself.

 

Especially the comment about "as a German". No, just no.

Edited by Nonesuch, 12 April 2019 - 08:27.

[Marklar]

Especially the comment about "as a German". No, just no.

That's a mistranslation though

In the original he says: "Doch dann hat er es halbherzig gemacht, weil er auf gut deutsch gesagt wusste, dass es Scheiße war.", translates to: "But then he did it half-heartedly, because as you would say it in plain German, he knew that it was Scheiße (sh**)"

Edited by Marklar, 12 April 2019 - 08:35.

[Nonesuch]

Thanks. Quite the terrible translation.

[wingwalker]

“The fact is that Villeneuve actually invited him to drive into him. I told Michael: ‘If you do it, do it right, just as [Alain] Prost and [Ayrton] Senna did a dozen times.

“But he did it half-heartedly, because as a German he knew it was s***”.

 

Putting everything else aside, that's just horses**t. JV tried a ballsy move, but it was as much of an "invitation" as every other moment when two cars are side by side(ish) and MS hit him as much as he could have in that moment.

[PlayboyRacer]

I was under the impression Schumacher had already admitted it. When he was on Top Gear Jeremy Clarkson made a joke about him taking out Damon Hill. He smiled, shrugged and said there are a lot of things he regrets.

Sure he's admitted to panicking in the heat of battle and turning in... thus doing something he wasn't proud of. He's admitted that much.

However that isn't what Weber is saying here. According to him, it was discussed in the days/weeks leading up to Jerez. It was encouraged by Weber himself... and who else perhaps? Or do we believe that no one else at Ferrari at the time was 'in' on these discussions?

Pretty disgraceful stuff really.

[as65p]

Well, quite a slap for those delicate flowers who like to believe driving into an opponent on purpose was only ever done by Senna and no other driver ever.

 

That said, Willi Weber is just a despisable loudmouth. Kind of a poor mans Flavio, even lower morals but also on a lower level in the ranking of dubious business activities. I guess one can roughly estimate the accuracy of his statements by this part: "....just as [Alain] Prost and [Ayrton] Senna did a dozen times."

 

Oh, and obviously this is another pearl: “.... because as a German he knew it was s***”.

 

So we germans are supposed to know better what's s*** than the rest of the world? Speak only for yourself, Willi.

Edited by as65p, 12 April 2019 - 09:24.

[kumo7]

Weber kind of put himself in the position. 

[PlayboyRacer]

Is Weber at the same clearance level as Jean Todt, casually dropping by the Schumis to watch some TV? If he isn't, why would an old man not fess up a bit? Loyalty and trust need to go both ways

Indeed. At what point did Weber fall out with the Schumacher family? I do find coming out with this now, even just responding to Bernies comments, seems a touch bizarre.

[sopa]

Considering it's poor translation and it's PlanetF1, not sure, how much pinch of salt you have to use here.

 

However, the question is whether it was planned beforehand. Well, let's say you can't really predict every on-track situation beforehand. Yeah, Senna could think that if Prost beat him at the start of 1990 Japanese GP, he is going to do it right there and then. But what was a realistic Schumacher's plan? Especially as discussing it a week beforehand, when you even don't know relative grid positions going into the race.

 

Whether Weber might have suggested to Michael in private conversation that if an Adelaide 1994 kind of on-track situation occurs, you know, how to react - yeah, that's definitely a possibility. Michael was somewhat of an overly hard racer anyway, particularly prior to his injury. For example pushing Frentzen off the track in Canada 1998. So in 'right circumstances', given right conditions in an on-track battle, doing something dirty wasn't alien to him.

[SenorSjon]

I've read many moons ago that Schumachers car had a failing water pump and was therefore slowing in the latter parts of the race. As a consequence it was forseen he never would have finished anyway with that problem. 

 

Weber has nothing to do with the Schumachers for years and isn't allowed near him. so why he feels to speak about it now...?

[Brackets]

"Fuel manettino zero"

 

All of Ferrari was in on it.

[PlayboyRacer]

I've read many moons ago that Schumachers car had a failing water pump and was therefore slowing in the latter parts of the race. As a consequence it was forseen he never would have finished anyway with that problem.

I heard that too. Was that ever confirmed? Or simply used as an excuse to explain his actions and explain why Villeneuve reeled him in at a rate of knots?

[as65p]

Indeed. At what point did Weber fall out with the Schumacher family?

 

I guess at the point when he wasn't granted the same access to Schumacher people like Todt and Brawn have. I'm too lazy to look it up but I'm pretty sure after MS' accident Weber didn't have any kind of access to inside news let alone visiting rights to MS, courtesy of the family. Might even be the relationship had alreday fizzleld out before the skying accident.

 

Okay, here is Google translate of an article from FOCUS trying to explain "what's behind Webers anger", hope it's understandable enough.

Edited by as65p, 12 April 2019 - 10:31.

[Sterzo]

We don't know there was a plot between Weber and Schumacher in advance of the manouevre: the article doesn't say so, and Weber doesn't claim there was. Quite the reverse, he's attempting to defend Schumacher. Factor in that he probably can't remember what was said, and that quite often things are said in jest, and you keep coming back to it - we don't know.

 

In any case, what Schumacher did was reprehensible enough, and the official reaction (= inaction) was equally so.

 

The best quote on the whole thing was by Damon Hill, when told Schumacher claimed it was "instinctive" when the Williams dived up the inside. Hill laughed and said your instinct is to swerve away.

[Marklar]

Considering it's poor translation and it's PlanetF1, not sure, how much pinch of salt you have to use here.

 

Just to be clear: Except of the "German" bit the translation is accurate. The only other bit that isnt exactly as in the original is this one
 

Weber also said Schumacher and Ferrari’s success put Ecclestone and F1 “in a place they had never been before and may never be in again”.

“And yet now he talks like that about Schumi who cannot speak for himself,” Weber said.

 

In the original he says: "This is bad style. Generally you shouldnt put the boot in. In the years Michael spend in Formula 1 he brought it to a place they had never been before and maybe will never be again."

(the "he cant speak for himself" bit is not a direct quote, so idk if he actually said this, if he did he also said that "Bernie cashed in and sunned himself" in Schumacher's success)

Though the interview is from the Cologne Express, which is a bit of an trash paper...
 

Edited by Marklar, 12 April 2019 - 15:36.

[TobiR]

Apologizes for this may be off-topic...

 

Reading about Mr. Weber, didn't he face charges of bribery and corruption relating to his management of MSC? I do remember this was a mulit-million civil suit around the time when MSC was in his final years with Ferrari, but not sure exactly what year.

 

Did he really get away with all of that? Maybe the German forum members know more about it?

[Marklar]

Apologizes for this may be off-topic...

 

Reading about Mr. Weber, didn't he face charges of bribery and corruption relating to his management of MSC? I do remember this was a mulit-million civil suit around the time when MSC was in his final years with Ferrari, but not sure exactly what year.

 

Did he really get away with all of that? Maybe the German forum members know more about it?

Yeah, pretty much. He got a year on probation and a big fine (€ 720k).

[jonpollak]

I was there that weekend and it was OBVIOUS to me that there was something afoot.
Irvine in FP3, Fontana in the race then THAT move (I was sat at DrySack and saw Schumi’s indignation, standing on the wall,each time JV drove past.)

Not surprised this has come out.
Jp

EDIT: I have a picture of that somewhere.

Edited by jonpollak, 14 April 2019 - 15:05.

[PlayboyRacer]

Be great if you could dig that picture up. What a weekend that would have been to experience.

Ferrari were clearly on a mission to try get into JV's head all weekend and use whatever tactics necessary. When that didn't work... Michael got desperate. That the team were likely encouraging doing whatever it takes just leaves a real sour taste. Wonder what Todt and Brawn knew of it all...

[pRy]

We don't know there was a plot between Weber and Schumacher in advance of the manouevre: the article doesn't say so, and Weber doesn't claim there was. 

 

Yes to be fair his comments could easily refer to a post race conversation rather than a pre race one. In fact knowing the outcome of the move and the race itself the comments make more sense in the context of a post race debriefing.