Jump to content


Photo

The Glorious 1000th


  • Please log in to reply
59 replies to this topic

#1 moffspeed

moffspeed
  • Member

  • 232 posts
  • Joined: March 17

Posted 14 April 2019 - 17:39

Full credit to the FIA and Liberty Media.

 

I think I became interested in GP racing as an 8 year old or thereabouts, the magical days of Clark, Hill & Stewart - so I probably arrived at GP F130 or thereabouts. I set the alarm clock early today, OK it was a pity that F1000 (not to be confused with F100 which was a poorly-conceived two seater FF series) didn't coincide with a more evocative track, Silverstone or Monza would have been perfect. However the Chinese smog lifted and I was not to be disappointed, what a glorious nod to the last 70 years.

 

The attention to historical detail rivalled Goodwood. That track parade with every championship winning car since 1950 was just awesome. Highlights for me included the unique sight of Andrea de Adamich in the original Alfa 158, Ruben Vazquez "Fangio" in the W196 was perhaps a bit of a controversial choice but provided historical continuity, Damon Hill in the P57, Andretti in the 79, Lauda reunited with a 312T and, of course, Bruno Senna (FW14B) and Mick Schumacher (F2004) made guest appearances. It was a great shame that Nelson Piquet Junior "did an Albon" and inexplicably backed his dad's BT52 into the pitwall at high speed.

 

It was the finer points that caught the eye. The sponsors may have been unhappy, but the fact that all the cars were entered in their national racing colours with no advertising was a master-stroke. All the drivers wore helmets in the livery of their chosen past F1 heroes, although I would have thought Stroll should have chosen one of the Villeneuves rather than Taki Inoue. The use of a national flag to start the race was a bit contrived and the Williams drivers did complain that they were unsighted, they argued that the flag should have been raised on some form of flag post. I'm all for historical accuracy but putting de Cesaris in charge of the Marlboro liveried safety car seemed unwise (on at least 2 health-related counts) and it is fortunate that the race passed off without major incident. It may not have been a classic race but it was gratifying to see Bottas uncomplainingly surrender his car to Hamilton in the pits when LH's Merc cried enough, Hamilton enjoying a swift swig of Coke before rejoining the race in Bottas' car and then arriving on the top step of the podium with his face blackened by the smog. 1950 was not a vintage year for champagne production (the long summer of 1949 was far superior) but credit to the organisers for providing 3 Jereboams of 1950's Vintage Moet et Chandon - it would have been awful to have spoilt the event with some 20/50 synthetic Carbon "champagne" with an attached Go-Pro. The reintroduction of laurel wreaths was also heartening but with all 3 podium places being occupied by vegetarians they didn't last long...

 

Bugger, then I woke up.  At best I think Ricciardo had a Brabham tribute helmet and Alain Prost waved the chequer at the end - although he looked as though he would have preferred to be back in Chene Bougeries.

 

Incidentally back in the 1960s I watched my first G.P. on a 19 inch b&w TV, albeit with 625 (rather than 405) line technology. Today I watched on my 50 inch OLED flat screen with sound bar and the best MGU-K that money can buy. It should have made for an audiovisual treat. Unfortunately the Chinese cameramen (especially the guy at T1) had seemingly prematurely celebrated the event with plenty of Baijiu, the results were not good....


Edited by moffspeed, 15 April 2019 - 10:58.


Advertisement

#2 404KF2

404KF2
  • Member

  • 18,979 posts
  • Joined: October 99

Posted 15 April 2019 - 05:06

I tuned out after 3 laps, didn't miss anything.....



#3 uechtel

uechtel
  • Member

  • 1,960 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 15 April 2019 - 05:25

What kind of celebrations do you expect for a 1072nd Grand Prix?



#4 2F-001

2F-001
  • Member

  • 4,244 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 15 April 2019 - 07:49

Moffspeed - it took me a while there to work out whether I’d actually missed something glorious...! Well done though; I enjoyed that.

What is actually being marked here? Is the 1,000th World Championship-qualifying race - or something else?

#5 Eric Dunsdon

Eric Dunsdon
  • Member

  • 1,021 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 15 April 2019 - 08:07

Not having Sky TV I found that account a little puzzling but how nice to read such enthusiasm. I think that I was like that once!.



#6 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Moderator

  • 24,592 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 15 April 2019 - 08:09

What is actually being marked here? Is the 1,000th World Championship-qualifying race - or something else?

It’s the 1,000th event counting towards the World Drivers’ Championship/F1 World Championship. Of these:

974 have been Grands Prix run to F1 rules
15 have been Grands Prix run to F2 rules
11 have been Indy 500s run to AAA/USAC rules

#7 RCH

RCH
  • Member

  • 1,139 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 15 April 2019 - 09:16

Must admit to getting frustrated when the tall Welsh comedian (forgotten his name) who fronts Channel 4's efforts these days referred to the 1,000th Grand Prix or F1 race. At least DC seemed to get it right.



#8 Bloggsworth

Bloggsworth
  • Member

  • 9,394 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 15 April 2019 - 09:59

Moffspeed - it took me a while there to work out whether I’d actually missed something glorious...! Well done though; I enjoyed that.

What is actually being marked here? Is the 1,000th World Championship-qualifying race - or something else?

 

1011 Championship races, 11 weren't GPs, they being Indy 500s, which in the 50/60s counted towards the World Championship, so 1,000 Grand Prix.



#9 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Moderator

  • 24,592 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 15 April 2019 - 10:01

Not so, Bloggsy - see my post above.

#10 john winfield

john winfield
  • Member

  • 5,640 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 15 April 2019 - 10:41

Moffspeed had me going for a while; I thought I'd missed something!

 

I'm still mildy addicted, was up before 7, and watched the race live, but a couple of hours later I wondered why I'd bothered. This may be RC territory, and we've been through it all before, but I really don't hold out much hope for the future of Formula 1, and I'm not sure if I care. 'Qualifying' : Mercedes, Mercedes, Ferrari, Ferrari, Red Bull, Red Bull, Renault, Renault, Haas, Haas.  'Race' : decided, arguably, in the first few seconds. Mercedes, Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull, Ferrari, Red Bull. I don't think any car from outside these three teams has won a Grand Prix since about 1932. Or thereabouts.

 

I know that, even in rose-tinted days of yore, Grand Prix could be processional, and some races predictable, but....... 

 

Will I find the courage to stop watching the damned things? Probably not.



#11 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 11,524 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 15 April 2019 - 12:47

Not having been able to raise the energy to check personally, was yesterday's race really, truly, the 1,000th FIA (single-seater) Drivers' World Championship-qualifying Grand Prix run since the first, at Silverstone in May, 1950?...    :cool:

 

DCN



#12 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Moderator

  • 24,592 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 15 April 2019 - 12:55

No. It was the 1,000th World Championship event, but only the 989th World Championship Grand Prix.

#13 john winfield

john winfield
  • Member

  • 5,640 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 15 April 2019 - 13:12

It was still bloody dull.



#14 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Administrator

  • 41,775 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 15 April 2019 - 13:54

Kubica's confession that the most exciting part of his race was spinning on the warm-up lap rather summed it up in toto.

 

Oh and there was some historic interest - I must admit I haven't followed it up because I was in a hurry when it popped up on Facebook, but there's apparently footage of Damon driving a GLTL(ish)-liveried Lotus 49B round the Chinese GP circuit.



#15 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Moderator

  • 24,592 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 15 April 2019 - 13:59

I thought the best bit was seeing how many times Ferrari could deliberately shaft one of their own drivers. :lol:

#16 Michael Ferner

Michael Ferner
  • Member

  • 7,151 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 15 April 2019 - 14:17

What kind of celebrations do you expect for a 1072nd Grand Prix?


Okay, I'll bite. 1072?

#17 7MGTEsup

7MGTEsup
  • Member

  • 2,467 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 15 April 2019 - 14:37

I thought the best bit was seeing how many times Ferrari could deliberately shaft one of their own drivers. :lol:

 

They are braking him in nicely, wonder how long before his youthful exuberance gets the better of him when asked to bend over?



#18 D28

D28
  • Member

  • 2,016 posts
  • Joined: April 14

Posted 15 April 2019 - 15:01

Not a barn burner by any means. I taped it and tried to watch it on 3 occasions, but gave up with about 15 laps left, it felt like it should be much closer to being over. Other races in the past have been dull, but there was always some chance of mechanical failure or driver fatigue affecting results in the final stages, These cars are incredibly reliable, so the races are often set after the last tire stop. Watching them run out the clock counts for little in terms of excitement.



#19 Odseybod

Odseybod
  • Member

  • 1,800 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 15 April 2019 - 16:22

Well, there was the semi-spectacle of Monsieur Ghastly strapping new tyres onto his Red Bull and capturing the extra point for setting fastest lap, when it wa too late for any of the grown-ups to realise what was happening and respond (if they'd wished to).

 

With Sky now having captured the live TV coverage, I retaliate by listening to the race on the good old-fashioned steam wireless. The two advantages are that I feel I'm outwitting the Sky media moguls and, with these early fly-away races happening at unreasonable times (for the UK enthusiast), I can drift pleasantly in and out of consciousness with that soothing droning in the background, while still knowing vaguely who done what without having to dodge subsequent new reports giving the story away.  Quite perverse, I know.



Advertisement

#20 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Administrator

  • 41,775 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 15 April 2019 - 16:37

I thought the best bit was seeing how many times Ferrari could deliberately shaft one of their own drivers. :lol:

They've had enough practice now that it's almost second nature.

 

 

With Sky now having captured the live TV coverage, I retaliate by listening to the race on the good old-fashioned steam wireless. The two advantages are that I feel I'm outwitting the Sky media moguls and, with these early fly-away races happening at unreasonable times (for the UK enthusiast), I can drift pleasantly in and out of consciousness with that soothing droning in the background, while still knowing vaguely who done what without having to dodge subsequent new reports giving the story away.  Quite perverse, I know.

Given that we also have (I hope) a splendid summer of cricket to look forward to this year - and with Sky also having snapped up coverage of IndyCar from BT - it's possible to get some very good deals by using a NowTV streaming stick and strategic monthly pass buying. I found I can do it all for a lot less than NowTV's supposed 'bargain' £195 Sky F1 pass ...



#21 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Moderator

  • 24,592 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 15 April 2019 - 17:26

With Sky now having captured the live TV coverage, I retaliate by listening to the race on the good old-fashioned steam wireless.


If only the BBC could find someone less annoyingly incompetent as their lead radio commentator. :well:

#22 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 25,898 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 15 April 2019 - 17:55

Given Libertys enthusiasm for making each event a Super Bowl, you might imagine that they would have done a bit more than just tag everything '1000th'.

 

On the other hand, in a country with a billion people more or less indifferent to modern F1, let alone historic F1, it would have been a waste to puton a show such as the OP dreamt about.

 

As for the debate about the 1000th race, let's face it, there are 3 or 4 different answers and all of them are both right and wrong.  They chose one, as they had to unless they ignored it altogether - which would of course have brought them in for criticsm as well - and went with it.  It's gone now, so let's add it to the history books and move on.



#23 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 11,524 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 15 April 2019 - 18:45

Thank you Tim.

 

Interesting point, that... how history might regard the '1,000th' Drivers' World Championship race...

 

DCN



#24 moffspeed

moffspeed
  • Member

  • 232 posts
  • Joined: March 17

Posted 15 April 2019 - 18:54

Ladies and Gentlemen of TNF  I take you back to 1990.

 

Bernie flies out of Biggin Hill, a quick flick on the state-of-the-art Casio calculator reveals that Adelaide will be the 500th Grands Prix of all time. This needs to be celebrated.

 

The F1 franchise is doing well, all that tobacco advertising and so many worldwide TV channels covering "eff one". So we line up 7 previous F1 champions for a photo opportunity (sadly only 2 survive) and all looks good, Prost is a notable absentee - to be photographed down under with a Brazilian (so to speak) was just too much. Alan Jones was driving a Sierra Cosworth in the Group A race that weekend but Jonesy being Jonesy he was a non-attender at the photo opportunity - maybe "taking a s**t" as in the famous Hakkinen interview.  Ayrton was there but after his adversarial pre-GP interview with JYS that was a bit of a miracle.

 

The race wasn't too exciting but the sound of Ferrari V12s, Renault V10s, Lambo V12s, Judd and Cossie V8s, Honda V10s, yes I could have coped with that...



#25 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Administrator

  • 41,775 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 15 April 2019 - 19:27

I hate to spoil your story but the defecating Finn was the (normally) infamously taciturn Kimster.

 



#26 Odseybod

Odseybod
  • Member

  • 1,800 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 15 April 2019 - 20:43

If only the BBC could find someone less annoyingly incompetent as their lead radio commentator. :well:

 

On the other hand, I think Young Mister Palmer is coming on quite well as his No. 2 (not a reference to Kimi's activity). Jolyon was quite insightful about Ferrari's reasoning for favouring Vettel on this occasion and also spotted (and enjoyed) Gastly going for the fastest lap, when the Big Boys were assuming they had it all sewn up. Only a point, I know, but I like the spirit that made him and the team go for it.



#27 uechtel

uechtel
  • Member

  • 1,960 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 15 April 2019 - 20:55

Okay, I'll bite. 1072?

 

Ok, let´s start from today backwards

658 Grand Prix races in the Formula 1 World Championship (since 1981)

331 Grand Prix races, which counted for the Automobile World Championship 1950 - 1980,

7 'Great' National Formula 1 Grand Prix races (Grandes Epreuves) in 1948/49

4 further 'Great' National Grands Prix/Grandes Epreuves in 1947 (according to the same Formula when it was not yet called Formula 1)

24 National Grands Prix/Grandes Epreuves according to the Formule Internationale/International Grand Prix Formula counting for the European Championship 1935 - 1939

6 National Grands Prix/Grandes Epreuves according to Formule Internationale in 1934

11 National Grands Prix/Grandes Epreuves under Formula Libre 1931 - 1933

3 National Grands Prix/Grandes Epreuves which were organized as part of the World Championship 1928 - 1930

11 National Grands Prix/Grandes Epreuves counting for the Automobile World Championship 1925 - 1927

8 National Grands Prix after WW I 1921 - 1924

6 Grands Prix de l´ACF before WW I 1906 - 1914

 

altogether 1069

 

And then I also count the 1980 Spanish GP, which was a full Grand Prix race at the time it was run...

And two British Grands Prix in 1948 and 1949 of which I am not sure whether they already had the status of a Grande Epreuve

 

So this is where I want to draw my line

 

Of course we can debate also about the following:

South Africa 1981, intended as a Word Championship race according to Formula 1, but the rules were changed in the meantime

Also the two German Grands Prix in 1950 and 1960, which were organized as Formula 2 races, were listed as Grandes Epreuves in the FIA calendar

Then of course also the races for the American Grand Prize, 1908 to 1916. The first events certainly were of quite respectable status, but that declined for the later races

And then we still have those 'inaugural' National Grand Prix races (like Mexico 1962, Austria 1963,  Argentine 1972, Brazil 1973, "Swiss" 1975), as 'tests' whether the organization is capable to carry out a full-scale Grand Prix in the following years

Very much similar the Swiss and Monaco GP before both events received Grande Epreuve status

Other National Grands Prix, which never reached Grande Epreuve status (Czechoslovakia 1949, Denmark 1962/63 etc.)

And finally the early town to town races which were promoted to Grand Prix status many years later by the ACF

 

Anyway, we are far over that 1000 number, even without the Indianapolis races. To me it makes no sense to cut off history in 1950, as the continuity between 1949 and 1950 was very much closer than for example between 1980 and 1981.


Edited by uechtel, 15 April 2019 - 20:57.


#28 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Administrator

  • 41,775 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 15 April 2019 - 21:04

Whenever I hear Gasly's name I'm reminded of Edward Gorey's alphabet The Gashlycrumb Tinies.



#29 Odseybod

Odseybod
  • Member

  • 1,800 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 15 April 2019 - 22:59

Whenever I hear Gasly's name I'm reminded of Edward Gorey's alphabet The Gashlycrumb Tinies.

 

New to me. As comforting as Shock-Headed Peter/Struwwelpeter (which is why I grew up bitter and twisted).



#30 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Moderator

  • 24,592 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 16 April 2019 - 01:58

On the other hand, I think Young Mister Palmer is coming on quite well as his No. 2 (not a reference to Kimi's activity).


Agreed absolutely - he’s very good. If only they could get rid of that other numpty.

#31 R.W. Mackenzie

R.W. Mackenzie
  • Member

  • 373 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 16 April 2019 - 02:52

I became a passionate and fanatical fan of Formula 1 after seeing the movie "Grand Prix" at the age of 12 in December 1967. Until the late 70's when I was studying Mechanical Engineering at Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario I was able to name every single Grand Prix winner from #1 at Silverstone to #whatever at that time. I even raced Formula Vee and Formula Ford from 1976 to 1985 and still race my large collection of slot cars and my computer simulator in retirement at the age of 63.

 

I say all of this to establish my credentials as a true-blue racing fan from my youth to the present day.

 

I have seen some of the most exciting races in F1 history in person and on TV (as well as Can-Am, Indy car and NASCAR). But I can say unreservedly that #1000 (I see no reason to question the official count) was just about the most boring race I have ever watched. The teams showed their potential in practice, qualified, raced and finished pretty much in order. This has become the trend and seems to be more certain a result with every races that passes.

 

This is not to say that every race in the past was a classic. They could often result in a similar parade. But there was always the prospect that something might happen to upset the apple cart. The result was far more in question right up until the checkered flag fell. Artificially induced excitement such as mandatory tire changes and DRS weren't necessary.

 

Yes, I sound like the old fart I never wanted to become and I could go on for hours about where F1 went wrong and what it needs to do to fix it (if that's even possible). But the bottom line is that, as rabid a fan as I once was, I now watch F1 purely out of habit. Used to be it was a disaster of immense proportions if I missed a race. Now it is "So what?. I will probably continue to watch but what the hell else are you going to do on Sunday morning? But the prospect of an exciting or even interesting race are pretty much zero.

 

But what is there to attract and keep new fans to the sport? I wonder if motor racing in general has any relevance in today's world. Anybody watch the recent NASCAR race at Bristol? The stands were empty.


Edited by R.W. Mackenzie, 16 April 2019 - 02:53.


#32 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Administrator

  • 41,775 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 16 April 2019 - 07:59

New to me. As comforting as Shock-Headed Peter/Struwwelpeter (which is why I grew up bitter and twisted).

There is a whole twisted Edward Gorey world to discover. Not well-known this side of the pond though.



#33 moffspeed

moffspeed
  • Member

  • 232 posts
  • Joined: March 17

Posted 16 April 2019 - 08:22

There is a whole twisted Edward Gorey world to discover. Not well-known this side of the pond though.

 

Goodness me, the all-embracing power of TNF.

 

Back in the early 70's I had very long hair (as was the fashion). I thought I looked pretty cool, what with the platform shoes and wearing my rally jacket with a Yardley BRM sticker on the back. My grandmother sent me a birthday card complete with a pound note - the deal was happy birthday, here's a quid but get your hair cut because "you look like Shock-Headed Peter".

 

I never understood who Peter was at the time and Mr Google hadn't been born so the comment washed over me.

 

Suddenly, half a century on - it all makes sense.  :cool:



#34 john winfield

john winfield
  • Member

  • 5,640 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 16 April 2019 - 08:44

Goodness me, the all-embracing power of TNF.

 

 

 

Yes, a force for good!

I'd never heard of 'Shock-Headed Peter', nor Edward Gorey, so thank you Odsey and Vitesse!  Hours of fun ahead I think....



#35 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 61,756 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:12

 

I have seen some of the most exciting races in F1 history in person and on TV (as well as Can-Am, Indy car and NASCAR). But I can say unreservedly that #1000 (I see no reason to question the official count) was just about the most boring race I have ever watched.

 

Can I beg to differ?  I found it fascinating.  Hamilton's masterclass of smoothness was not very visible on camera, but we had the Ferrari intrigue, incompetence, and bias, an underrated drive from the pits by Albon, and Verstappen taking on the Ferraris single-handedly.  It was one for the underlying story rather than the race action.

 

Compare that to some races we've had in the last few years in which there was literally no overtaking...



#36 Claudio Navonne

Claudio Navonne
  • Member

  • 179 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:14

I became a passionate and fanatical fan of Formula 1 after seeing the movie "Grand Prix" at the age of 12 in December 1967. Until the late 70's when I was studying Mechanical Engineering at Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario I was able to name every single Grand Prix winner from #1 at Silverstone to #whatever at that time. I even raced Formula Vee and Formula Ford from 1976 to 1985 and still race my large collection of slot cars and my computer simulator in retirement at the age of 63.

 

I say all of this to establish my credentials as a true-blue racing fan from my youth to the present day.

 

I have seen some of the most exciting races in F1 history in person and on TV (as well as Can-Am, Indy car and NASCAR). But I can say unreservedly that #1000 (I see no reason to question the official count) was just about the most boring race I have ever watched. The teams showed their potential in practice, qualified, raced and finished pretty much in order. This has become the trend and seems to be more certain a result with every races that passes.

 

This is not to say that every race in the past was a classic. They could often result in a similar parade. But there was always the prospect that something might happen to upset the apple cart. The result was far more in question right up until the checkered flag fell. Artificially induced excitement such as mandatory tire changes and DRS weren't necessary.

 

Yes, I sound like the old fart I never wanted to become and I could go on for hours about where F1 went wrong and what it needs to do to fix it (if that's even possible). But the bottom line is that, as rabid a fan as I once was, I now watch F1 purely out of habit. Used to be it was a disaster of immense proportions if I missed a race. Now it is "So what?. I will probably continue to watch but what the hell else are you going to do on Sunday morning? But the prospect of an exciting or even interesting race are pretty much zero.

 

But what is there to attract and keep new fans to the sport? I wonder if motor racing in general has any relevance in today's world. Anybody watch the recent NASCAR race at Bristol? The stands were empty.

I am here at the other end of the American continent (Argentina) and your beginnings in this love affair in motor racing and F1 in particular were exactly the same. And my current thoughts are the same. I also saw the empty grandstands in Bristol and thought exactly the same thing...
I was also 12 years old when I saw "Grand Prix" in the cinema and from then on...



#37 Arjan de Roos

Arjan de Roos
  • Member

  • 2,583 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 16 April 2019 - 11:12

It’s the 1,000th event counting towards the World Drivers’ Championship/F1 World Championship. Of these:

974 have been Grands Prix run to F1 rules
15 have been Grands Prix run to F2 rules
11 have been Indy 500s run to AAA/USAC rules

 

So it is Canada 2020 that will be truly the 1000th F1 GP counting to the WDC.

We shall count down!



#38 uffen

uffen
  • Member

  • 1,892 posts
  • Joined: April 04

Posted 16 April 2019 - 12:59

My experience and opinions mirror R.W. Mackenzie's quite closely (including being a Queen's engineering student when the bug bit me!). F1 has been chipping away at me since the introduction of the semi-automatic gearbox in 1989/90. The halo was the last straw. I don't watch any more but I still follow the news on-line. It was a deep love affair and it's a hard habit to break.

 

As for the 1,000 count - what about all those non-championship grands prix back in the '70s? They were called all the right names but had no championship points attached to them.



#39 Michael Ferner

Michael Ferner
  • Member

  • 7,151 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 16 April 2019 - 13:10

I don't understand this fervour of discounting the Indianapolis World Championship races, what have they done to you, where have they wronged you?

And no, I don't understand uechtel's post, either. So, in effect you meant 1,072 randomly picked races? For what purpose? If you wanted to show the "true" number of Grands Prix, why did you then forgot the 46 AvD Oldtimer Grands Prix, for example, 38 Grands Prix des Frontières, and countless others? Whatever, nothing of that changes the number of 1,000 World Championship events held so far.

Advertisement

#40 john winfield

john winfield
  • Member

  • 5,640 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 16 April 2019 - 16:08

Can I beg to differ?  I found it fascinating.  Hamilton's masterclass of smoothness was not very visible on camera, but we had the Ferrari intrigue, incompetence, and bias, an underrated drive from the pits by Albon, and Verstappen taking on the Ferraris single-handedly.  It was one for the underlying story rather than the race action.

 

Compare that to some races we've had in the last few years in which there was literally no overtaking...

 

I take your point. The 'underlying story' can be very satisfying when you follow, for example, a sport closely; the more you know the more you appreciate what's happening before your eyes. But I think we're clutching at straws here. Your race highlights are valid, but they shouldn't be enough, and your final sentence is as condemnatory of Formula 1 as my moan earlier in the thread. 

 

For me it's the sheer predictability. Engineering brilliance, and huge budgets, have taken Formula 1 down a blind sporting alley. I have some sympathy with the authorities, trying to restrict expenditure by imposing tight technical regulations, but sadly we end up with twenty cars that look pretty similar, and a competitive hierarchy that is virtually cast in stone. As I said somewhere else, I think it's over six years since a race was won by something other than a Mercedes, Ferrari or Red Bull. Presumably that's around 120 races. Madness!  Even in a season like 1976, dominated by Hunt and Lauda, McLaren and Ferrari, there was room for others to win the odd race: Lotus, March, Penske, Tyrrell...a 1-2....on six-wheels! (well, twelve)  

 

Not easy to resolve, I know. RWM mentions existing attempts like mandatory tyre stops and DRS. Car reliability is spoiling the fun so perhaps the next scheme should be some artificially induced technical fault, introduced on a random basis. Drawing the technical short straw after qualifying? Or each team to be given a technical 'lucky bag' of small standard items that may or may not last the whole race? 

 

But it'll probably be F1 Fanboost won't it? I suppose we could all agree to give Williams a hand.

 

OT, sorry, ranting.



#41 moffspeed

moffspeed
  • Member

  • 232 posts
  • Joined: March 17

Posted 16 April 2019 - 17:08

In a fit of boredom this afternoon I took a look at a few non-Championship F1 races, added GP - style points to each such race and then computed what effect it would have had on that year's WDC if the points had been awarded.

 

The answer generally was not a lot, then I realised that it was a classic "what if", of no historical consequence and of no interest to any sensible TNF member. I will now return to the garage and do what I always do when boredom sets in - open up my very large socket set and rearrange it so that every socket is returned to its correct little compartment - no doubt the 10mm hex will still be missing, it always is.

 

Oh, just one last thing - Keke Rosberg won both of the last non Championship F1 races at Silverstone & Brands, the BRDC International Trophy in '78 and the R.o.C in 1983 - now you are impressed. :cool:



#42 Henk Vasmel

Henk Vasmel
  • Member

  • 779 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 16 April 2019 - 18:04

Actually, the Chinese GP was race 1001. I definitely remember reading about the German GP at the Nürburgring in 1977. DSJ in Motor Sport. It seems to have disappeared from the list.



#43 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 80,052 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 16 April 2019 - 20:42

You're so right...

 

DSJ covered that one but all the other journos boycotted it. And a great race it was, too, even if most performances were thoroughly predictable.



#44 Glengavel

Glengavel
  • Member

  • 1,300 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 17 April 2019 - 06:15

Actually, the Chinese GP was race 1001. I definitely remember reading about the German GP at the Nürburgring in 1977. DSJ in Motor Sport. It seems to have disappeared from the list.


Better add the 1978(?) Russian Grand Prix as well then...

#45 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 11,524 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 17 April 2019 - 07:18

Maybe it's time to hear from proponents of the Grand Prix du Roc...

 

DCN



#46 Michael Ferner

Michael Ferner
  • Member

  • 7,151 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 17 April 2019 - 07:53

A local radio station took it upon themselves to celebrate the 1000th Grand Prix with a series of short "history lessons" about F 1, the first one airing yesterday. Between meaningless soundbites and some lightweight facts, I even learned something, namely that the "first F 1 fatality" was Luigi Fagioli...

Edited by Michael Ferner, 17 April 2019 - 07:54.


#47 Arjan de Roos

Arjan de Roos
  • Member

  • 2,583 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 17 April 2019 - 08:23

Maybe it's time to hear from proponents of the Grand Prix du Roc...

 

DCN

Yesss, .... we completely forgot the GP of Gibraltar, which counted double to the WDC. So we are at....?



#48 moffspeed

moffspeed
  • Member

  • 232 posts
  • Joined: March 17

Posted 17 April 2019 - 09:06

Not forgetting the Hyde Park Grand Prix, I was there, the sight of F1cars flat out over the Serpentine bridge was quite something.

 

I was lucky enough to get over to Bermuda at or about the same time, one of the best Grands Prix I have ever attended...both events seem scarcely believable these days...



#49 chr1s

chr1s
  • Member

  • 450 posts
  • Joined: December 12

Posted 17 April 2019 - 19:36

 

 

Of course we can debate also about the following:

South Africa 1981, intended as a Word Championship race according to Formula 1, but the rules were changed in the meantimeI

If we do count it, dose that mean Carlos Reutemann  is the true 1981 World Champion after all?



#50 john winfield

john winfield
  • Member

  • 5,640 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 17 April 2019 - 22:09

If we do count it, dose that mean Carlos Reutemann  is the true 1981 World Champion after all?

 

Chris, please, keep your voice down. For some reason I'm part of a Facebook group full of Argentinian Reutemann fanatics. If this news gets out Facebook will be in meltdown.