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"Monaco-esque" (monegasque?) curved start-finish straight on a regular track - Would it work?


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#1 GenJackRipper

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 23:04

I had this idea; the Circuit the Monaco has a slightly curved start-finish straight along the Boulevard Albert 1er. This is because the street is slightly curved.
But would this work on a bigger scale on a track?
The start-finish is almost always a straight, but it could add something extra if it wasn't. Especially in qualifying when cars go all out for the start-finish.

Maybe this has been done somewhere, and I missed it?



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#2 Rob G

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 01:04

Brands Hatch has a curved front straight, and for a long time half the grid at Silverstone started on a curve.



#3 Beri

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 06:12

Spa eliminated its Start Finish curve after the 2006 revamp. I Always thought it brought something extra. But that was mainly because the cars would not line up perfectly like they do at other tracks. It was different and therefor brought something in my book.



#4 PayasYouRace

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 06:18

The FIA don’t like curved starting grids because it takes away sight lines from the front to the back of the grid. The cars at the back can’t see if a car at the front has stalled and the starter can’t see if everyone is in position or if someone has a problem and the start needs delaying.

#5 Peat

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 07:27

Imola - has straight bits, but meanders around

3350827_HiRes.jpg

The awesome Portero de los Funes:
TC2000-en-Potrero-de-los-Funes-1.jpg
 



#6 PayasYouRace

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 07:34

Obviously there are many ovals with the s/f line on a curve, but it’s less of an issue on an oval. Daytona is probably the most famous example. Phoenix has gone very weird recently by moving it to the middle of what was turn 2.

But it’s not really an issue in a rolling start situation.

#7 Stephane

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 07:35

Valencia street wasn't straight after the start either.

 

Long Beach is also curvy



#8 noikeee

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 07:51

Interlagos isn't laser straight neither.

#9 TomNokoe

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 07:59

Canada, sort of

#10 SophieB

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:01

Well now I just want to see more races in Portero de los Funes and line of sight be damned.



#11 Kalmake

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:10

It adds nothing but danger. That's why you don't see it on most tracks.



#12 Kalmake

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:14

Obviously there are many ovals with the s/f line on a curve, but it’s less of an issue on an oval. Daytona is probably the most famous example.

Pits and pitting are a lot safer with that config.



#13 registered

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:45

Well now I just want to see more races in Portero de los Funes and line of sight be damned.

It seems to be in an awesome location. Sadly never caught a race on it. Is it still used? I think GT1 world championship went there

#14 Lights

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 09:08

Sure it looks nice, but as someone else pointed out, the reason why this is usually avoided is the increased chance of start accidents. Makes sense if you think about it: many multi-car accidents occur when drivers are unaware of that extra driver next to the one they're already driving side by side with. Take a GP start where drivers regularly go 4-wide, and combine that with a flowing/narrowing piece of asphalt, and you've hit the jackpot.

Edited by Lights, 18 April 2019 - 09:08.


#15 SenorSjon

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 09:33

Isn't Brands Hatch a curve as well?



#16 Beri

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 09:36

It seems to be in an awesome location. Sadly never caught a race on it. Is it still used? I think GT1 world championship went there


Joe Saward once wrote article where he connected some dots and came to the conclusion that a renewed Argentinian Grand Prix could be held in San Luis at the Portero circuit. Sadly it never happened.

Interlagos isn't laser straight neither.


The part of the grid where the cars line up is straight. Same goes for:

Canada, sort of

and

Valencia street wasn't straight after the start either.
 
Long Beach is also curvy



#17 noikeee

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 10:29

Joe Saward once wrote article where he connected some dots and came to the conclusion that (...). Sadly it never happened.


No way!  :stoned:



#18 Beri

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 10:50

No way!  :stoned:


Shocking isnt it? Someone who writes

#19 ANF

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 11:33

email180817.jpg
The start/finish straight at Oulton Park doesn't look very straight.


1016865009-LAT-20180818-galstad-VIR-0818
Virginia International Raceway has its start/finish line after a right-hand bend.

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#20 absinthedude

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 12:27

Silverstone was probably the last track where some of the field started on a curve - Woodcote before then changed the position of the start/finish. Around the same time the FIA banned new F1 tracks from having a significantly curved start/finish. I think it's potentially a shame.The configuration of Silverstone with the backmarkers on Woodcote curve really wasn't dangerous as the curve was wide and flat so they had good vision ahead. Spa was a bit more dodgy.



#21 Atreiu

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 13:28

I had this idea; the Circuit the Monaco has a slightly curved start-finish straight along the Boulevard Albert 1er. This is because the street is slightly curved.
But would this work on a bigger scale on a track?
The start-finish is almost always a straight, but it could add something extra if it wasn't. Especially in qualifying when cars go all out for the start-finish.

Maybe this has been done somewhere, and I missed it?

 

I think it could work if the architects wished to create a stadium like start/finish section. There would be safety concerns, obviously, but they could be addressed by not making the section quick and pushing the grandstands far away.

 

I think track design should be aimed at maximizing the view and value of main straight grandstands. Those seats should be gold. Look at Abu Dhabi, the main straight is the most inane section of the track as far as overtaking and track battles. I have some ideas for it, but basically the main overtaking/DRS straight should end within clear view of the main grandstands.



#22 muramasa

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 14:35

In terms of battle it doesnt add anything but it gives huge character to the track, I really really miss old Spa sf straight, that was huge character, those who revised the bus stop to home straight is stupid, it's a crime against Spa, F1 and motor-racing-ism overall.

Silverstone as well, that sight of cars lining up there was absolute epitome of cool, maybe at the next overhaul some decades later they can bring home straight back to the original place...



#23 cpbell

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 15:39

It might be of interest that the curve on the grid at Spa was, on the original layout, called Clubhouse Corner (the old racing clubhouse lay towards the foot of the slope on the outside).  For British racing fans of vintages older than me, and to enthusiasts of the history of the sport, that curve is infamous as the location of the fatal crashes of Richard Seaman and Archie Scott-Brown.



#24 boomn

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 15:42

It seems to be in an awesome location. Sadly never caught a race on it. Is it still used? I think GT1 world championship went there

If I'm remembering correctly, Potrero isn't very convenient for travel.  It's a long drive from the nearest major airport, not many hotels in close vicinity, etc.  



#25 PayasYouRace

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 16:09

Pits and pitting are a lot safer with that config.

 

How does that work then? On most of these circuits the pits are still straight, which is the safest configuration.



#26 Kalmake

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 16:38

How does that work then? On most of these circuits the pits are still straight, which is the safest configuration.

It's harder to crash into pits (or into the wall between).



#27 PayasYouRace

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 16:41

It's harder to crash into pits (or into the wall between).

 

Indeed. That had escaped me. It's true even with a pit wall, they tend to be low on ovals and debris could still go over it.



#28 NewMrMe

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 18:21

Thruxton's start finish "straight" is curved to the right.

 

Didn't the first iteration of the Vancouver street circuit used by Indycar/CART/Champ Car have the start finish line on a sweeping left hand bend?



#29 PayasYouRace

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 18:23

Thruxton's start finish "straight" is curved to the right.

 

Didn't the first iteration of the Vancouver street circuit used by Indycar/CART/Champ Car have the start finish line on a sweeping left hand bend?

 

No Vancouver had pit straight and then a fast turn 1 left hander. Perhaps you're thinking of Toronto which had a kinked front stretch with the s/f line almost on the kink?

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=6HN0z_S-Rnk



#30 BiggestBuddyLazierFan

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 18:28

I had this idea; the Circuit the Monaco has a slightly curved start-finish straight along the Boulevard Albert 1er. This is because the street is slightly curved.
But would this work on a bigger scale on a track?
The start-finish is almost always a straight, but it could add something extra if it wasn't. Especially in qualifying when cars go all out for the start-finish.

Maybe this has been done somewhere, and I missed it?


Dude, you need to watch some NASCAR

#31 PayasYouRace

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 18:40

I had this idea; the Circuit the Monaco has a slightly curved start-finish straight along the Boulevard Albert 1er. This is because the street is slightly curved.
But would this work on a bigger scale on a track?
The start-finish is almost always a straight, but it could add something extra if it wasn't. Especially in qualifying when cars go all out for the start-finish.

Maybe this has been done somewhere, and I missed it?

 

Well to go back to the OP, a s/f curve wouldn't add anything to qualifying because the cars would just take the shortest route like they always do. During races it's more likely to hinder overtaking by making an ideal line.



#32 GenJackRipper

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 19:16

Thanks for all the replies!
 

I think it could work if the architects wished to create a stadium like start/finish section. There would be safety concerns, obviously, but they could be addressed by not making the section quick and pushing the grandstands far away.

 

I think track design should be aimed at maximizing the view and value of main straight grandstands. Those seats should be gold. Look at Abu Dhabi, the main straight is the most inane section of the track as far as overtaking and track battles. I have some ideas for it, but basically the main overtaking/DRS straight should end within clear view of the main grandstands.

This was my thought aswell, a sort of stadium section.

But the safety concerns mentioned are valid. And if FIA dosen't like it, any track designed that way wouldn't get to host many great races. :well:



#33 boillot

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 11:56

I think it could work if the architects wished to create a stadium like start/finish section. There would be safety concerns, obviously, but they could be addressed by not making the section quick and pushing the grandstands far away.

I think track design should be aimed at maximizing the view and value of main straight grandstands. Those seats should be gold. Look at Abu Dhabi, the main straight is the most inane section of the track as far as overtaking and track battles. I have some ideas for it, but basically the main overtaking/DRS straight should end within clear view of the main grandstands.

The design certainly shouldn't focus on the view of main grandstands but on the overall picture, for the well-being of other paying visitors and the TV viewers.