Jump to content


Photo

Then and Now...


  • Please log in to reply
404 replies to this topic

#351 LittleChris

LittleChris
  • Member

  • 2,503 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 10 August 2019 - 21:27

Great spot Regga



Advertisement

#352 Sebastian Tombs

Sebastian Tombs
  • Member

  • 2,066 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 12 August 2019 - 01:37

This is an artist impression of Nuvolari driving on the rim (right rear depicted, Snellman's website says it was the left rear...) at Zebetin, near Brno, in the 1937 Masaryk GP.

 

Besides which tyre Tazio actually lost, the problem with this picture is that it is taken in a place off the street they actually went in 1937, according to the circuit plans that can be found online. They allegedly went through there between 1949-1964, and clockwise, not anti-clockwise as before the war. Don't know whether this picture based on an actual photo taken during the race at the location, but I haven't found it. A bit of a question mark.

2079.jpg

 

This is the 'Silver Arrows Project.  It's art Jim, but not as we know it!  :D

 

2sFFZ9J.jpg

 

 

https://www.mercedes...-project-video/

 

ST :wave:



#353 Sebastian Tombs

Sebastian Tombs
  • Member

  • 2,066 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 12 August 2019 - 01:59

Oh forgot...appears to have been left rear as Leif says :up:

 

n03Z71A.jpg

 

ST :wave:



#354 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 65,958 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 12 August 2019 - 06:07

Still getting stuck into it!

A very brave man...

#355 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 20,261 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 12 August 2019 - 14:25

There's some film of that in this video:

 

 

Go to 4:35.

 

 



#356 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 65,958 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 12 August 2019 - 15:41

And there's an awful lot more in that video...

What great film is in that, I'd reckon the cutting room floor bits would be good too.

#357 Sebastian Tombs

Sebastian Tombs
  • Member

  • 2,066 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 13 August 2019 - 03:42

This picture allegedly shows Caracciola on the Lasarte in 1934. I haven't been able to find its location despite going around the (long) circuit. Maybe Sebastian Tombs can find it?

 
Yes, good news!  I have had a fabulously detailed reply from Angel Elberdin ("Circuito de Lasarte: Memorias de una pasión") to my mail and he pinpoints the exact spot 43º16' 05.0 "N,  2º01'12.6"W in the town of Lasarte. He notes that he has other pics taken on race day which show a huge amount more spectators so he thinks it must be practice day which was the 21st Sept 1934.  I thought the same due to the driver's black helmet which neither Caracciola nor Fagioli wore in the race, both wearing white.  There are fuzzy shots around which have Caracciola wearing a darker helmet in practice but these might just be poor quality.  Ernst Henne practiced but didn't start and he wore a black helmet...there's a crystal sharp pic of Henne before practice in my archive and he's wearing a black helmet.  Concesus then...Ernst Henne, Merc W25A, Friday 21st Sept 1934 entering Kale Nagusia (name of street) Lasarte.
 
 
 
FMm9EA7.jpg

ST



#358 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 9,893 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 13 August 2019 - 10:07

Still getting stuck into it!

A very brave man...

Or more so silly unless it was the last lap.



#359 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 65,958 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 13 August 2019 - 12:43

Or getting to the pits for a replacement as quickly as he can...

Advertisement

#360 Sebastian Tombs

Sebastian Tombs
  • Member

  • 2,066 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 15 August 2019 - 14:33

To keep the thread going.  Here's one of the Paul Torchy accident site in Delage #13, Lasarte 19-09-1925.  The road comprising the part of the old circuit where the accident occurred is still known by locals as "La Cuesta de la Muerte", The Incline of Death, to this day.

 

4yhlBmg.jpg

 

Edit:  Actually it's known as "Heriotzaren malda" by the locals who don't speak Spanish if they can avoid it.

 

ST :wave:


Edited by Sebastian Tombs, 15 August 2019 - 14:48.


#361 LittleChris

LittleChris
  • Member

  • 2,503 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 15 August 2019 - 21:24

Rouen Les Essarts - Approx 20 yards into Gresil Curve July 1962 

 

gresil-mid-1962.jpg

 

Gresil from roughly same point, Oct 1998 

 

R-Gresil-Mid-Corner.jpg

 

Same point give or take a couple of yards, August 5th 2019. As ever when I visit I cleared a patch of foliage in my efforts to fight nature !!

 

Gresil-2.jpg

 

Interestingly the bollards that were fixed in the centre of the road from the pits down to Nouveau Monde have disappeared so it looks a bit more like a race track again. This is looking back from Six Freres to the 2nd corner, now perfect again for someone to chuck a 250F into a drift !!

 

6-Freres-back-to-T2.jpg


Edited by LittleChris, 15 August 2019 - 22:34.


#362 Sebastian Tombs

Sebastian Tombs
  • Member

  • 2,066 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 19 August 2019 - 00:27

OK, as promised (!) I've done a .kmz file for the Lasarte circuit.  This is very much a SebLasarte v1.0 as there are still loads of period pics to pinpoint locations but it's a reasonable start and, with the invaluable help of Angel Elberdin's encyclopedic knowledge of the circuit it's pretty accurate.  It was made with Google Earth Pro so the illustrations will not work on an iPhone (or iPad I believe).  The pic bug goes back a long way regarding mobile devices, there is a workaround that sometimes works but it's not worth faffing about IMHO.  Works fine on desktops and laptops, Windows or Mac.  Ideally needs Google Earth Pro which is now free from the App or Microsoft Stores.  The file is utterly safe and malware-free (made by yours truly) and installs with a double click.  Pics show examples and the non-example on an iPhone.  If anyone would like a copy just pm me your mail address and I'll happily send you one with full instructions if you haven't installed a .kmz before.  Updates will be posted in due course.

 

hmiZIAR.jpg

 

Exampe of illustrated placemark.

 

mGvfZ9U.jpg

 

Example of my lappie in front of the desktop proving you can send the file by mail and install it elsewhere! :rotfl:

 

Example of bum iPhone performance with boggo Google Earth which is all you can get.  Pro won't run on an iPhone 8+ or any other, nor Android.

 

IBmVRjW.jpg

 

ST :wave:



#363 Regazzoni

Regazzoni
  • Member

  • 2,182 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 24 August 2019 - 20:59

Moll in the snow in front of the stairs before the Pont Oscar at the inaugural Pau GP in 1933. Great idea to hold a race in mid-February at the foot of the Pyrenees...

Pau-GP-1933.jpg

Pau.jpg



#364 Regazzoni

Regazzoni
  • Member

  • 2,182 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 24 August 2019 - 22:27

Found this from twitter, claimed to be the "Eau Rouge, 1929". It seems they are building the road and it looks earlier than 1929, but it does confuse matters a bit, seen the previous photo posted of the alleged same location. The houses are not there.

Eau-Rouge-1.jpg

Bucolic. It doesn't come more nostalgic than this:

Eau-Rouge.jpg

 



#365 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 65,958 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 24 August 2019 - 22:46

Definitely later than 1929...

According to the shape and style of the vehicle you can almost make out there.

The houses involved are out of frame to the right, only one shed is there.




.

Edited by Ray Bell, 24 August 2019 - 22:47.


#366 Catalina Park

Catalina Park
  • Member

  • 6,444 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 25 August 2019 - 00:45

I get it, it's Eau Rouge looking from the other direction. I think this is the bypass of l'Ancienne Douane under construction, the Raidillon.

Edited by Catalina Park, 25 August 2019 - 00:57.


#367 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Administrator

  • 34,227 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 25 August 2019 - 10:41

Definitely later than 1929...

According to the shape and style of the vehicle you can almost make out there.

The houses involved are out of frame to the right, only one shed is there..

 

I get it, it's Eau Rouge looking from the other direction. I think this is the bypass of l'Ancienne Douane under construction, the Raidillon.

So probably 1938 or 1939, not 1929. Angle of the shot suggests it's been clipped and enlarged from a wider view taken from nearer the top of the hill, which would also explain why it's so grainy and indistinct.



#368 Sebastian Tombs

Sebastian Tombs
  • Member

  • 2,066 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 25 August 2019 - 16:41

Yep, pic taken in 1939 during the construction of the Raidillon Complex by-passing the Virage de l'Ancienne Douane.  It's grainy because somebody found an old small photo and tried to blow it up for Twitter or somesuch waste of bandwidth.

 

ST :wave:



#369 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Moderator

  • 21,917 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 25 August 2019 - 17:21

Here are a few more photos thrown up by Google, showing the old buildings:

0-A4-A9-FA7-938-E-45-AA-BE83-03-C09-B313

3434-A3-E8-79-BB-4-F40-8452-96-C52751998

AF684-EA9-A9-F0-499-B-AB9-D-740248-D8193

#370 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Administrator

  • 34,227 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 25 August 2019 - 19:34

Third one is just after the start of the1939 Belgian GP. Farina leading, having got a flier in the Alfa Romeo 316. Followed by Müller, Lang, Nuvolari, Caracciola, Hasse, Seaman and von Brauchitsch. Sommer next followed by Mandirola and finally the two Delahayes of Gérard and Mazaud.



#371 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Moderator

  • 21,917 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 25 August 2019 - 19:43

Here’s another:

BE2-B00-C3-4-E75-45-F2-AF45-C3738-BFF3-C

It would appear that the road passing between the buildings was the old original road. I wonder when the ‘new’ road which created the left-hand turn across the Eau Rouge bridge was built.

Edit: Leif Snellman told us earlier in this thread that the ‘new’ road bypassing the buildings was constructed in 1925.

#372 Sebastian Tombs

Sebastian Tombs
  • Member

  • 2,066 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 27 August 2019 - 15:35

Here’s another:

It would appear that the road passing between the buildings was the old original road. I wonder when the ‘new’ road which created the left-hand turn across the Eau Rouge bridge was built.

Edit: Leif Snellman told us earlier in this thread that the ‘new’ road bypassing the buildings was constructed in 1925.

 

It was certainly built in time for the 1925 Belgian GP, here's Ascari crossing it.  Note new stonework on the bridge.

 

MOFzBSk.jpg

 

ST :wave:



#373 NixxxoN

NixxxoN
  • Member

  • 2,212 posts
  • Joined: June 17

Posted 05 September 2019 - 21:37

Great thread!

I'll make some contribution

 

Pedralbes, Barcelona (1951)

That day Fangio won the first of his five championships.

 

4c29e59479b6892155280179ea2f8390o.jpg

 

071f7f4e57d5caddea069bf78f435157o.jpg


Edited by NixxxoN, 05 September 2019 - 21:56.


#374 Regazzoni

Regazzoni
  • Member

  • 2,182 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 14 September 2019 - 09:17

Brands-Hatch.jpgBrands-Hatch-1.jpg



#375 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 65,958 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 14 September 2019 - 10:11

I wonder why this last post from Regazzoni prevents this page opening in Firefox?

The screen flashes from white to grey, nothing shows at all.

#376 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 20,261 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 14 September 2019 - 10:18

What’s the date on that old Brands photo, Rega? Interesting that it appears to show the Grand Prix loop being planned even before the Druids Hill extension was built.

#377 Regazzoni

Regazzoni
  • Member

  • 2,182 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 14 September 2019 - 12:43

It didn't say the date of the photo. Wikipedia says Druids Hill was added between 1953 and 1954, so it must be before that and I suppose after 1950 or late Forties, after the one-mile circuit was first tarmacked.

 

Brands Hatch, with the Nordschleife and Charade, is one of my very few favourite circuits. (Lord) Brett Sinclair raced there too... :)

 

EDIT: This website says it was published in the Club's Annual at the beginning of 1952:

 

http://500race.org/brands-hatch/


Edited by Regazzoni, 14 September 2019 - 12:57.


#378 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 16,982 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 15 September 2019 - 15:59

That early Brands pic rather puts into perspective the usual bleats that people shouldn't move to live near a race track if they don't like the noise  There are clearly houses already there in West Kingsdown village.  I had always assumed these were built later and that the bleat was therefore justified.  But apparently not!



#379 LittleChris

LittleChris
  • Member

  • 2,503 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 15 September 2019 - 20:33

I'd imagine most of the houses in the first photo would've been demolished to build the more modern housing estate and anyone moving in would presumably have been made aware of the existing circuit some 30-40 yards way.  I wonder if rumours were planted by the developers at the time as to the potential longevity of Brands...…..  


Edited by LittleChris, 15 September 2019 - 20:33.


Advertisement

#380 Sterzo

Sterzo
  • Member

  • 1,416 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 16 September 2019 - 15:52

Brands Hatch, with the Nordschleife and Charade, is one of my very few favourite circuits. (Lord) Brett Sinclair raced there too... :)

Some statements should be viewed as mere opinion, but the above is a statement of the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Starting with the assumption that my ashes cannot be scattered over Cameron Diaz, these are three places I'd like to end up.



#381 Regazzoni

Regazzoni
  • Member

  • 2,182 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 28 September 2019 - 19:22

Forrest's Elbow

circuito-bathurst.jpg

6895710639-5697a2b4ba-o.jpg

bathurst-2017.jpg

Brocks.jpg



#382 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 65,958 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 28 September 2019 - 21:45

And as the driver sees it:

0919-Forrestselbow.jpg

My picture from early September, 2019.

#383 Regazzoni

Regazzoni
  • Member

  • 2,182 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 29 September 2019 - 06:18

Great place the mountain.

 

Just, what the heck is doing the number 15? I bet his heart pulse went up quite a bit...

 

Forrest's Elbow

circuito-bathurst.jpg

 



#384 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 65,958 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 29 September 2019 - 11:17

That was a picture on the cover of Autosport if I'm not mistaken...

This dice between the MG TC and the Lotus 6 was ultimately for the win in the 100-miler in October 1956. They were both off handicaps of 3m 25s and they finished up ahead of the Maserati 250F of Stan Jones off a handicap of over eighteen minutes. They beat him by three and a half minutes.

The pair, according to John Medley, were never more than three car-lengths apart during the race, and it was a great see-sawing battle between the MG being faster on the straights (and thus usually leading over the finish line) and the Lotus being more nimble in the corners (thus usually leading on this part of the circuit).

#385 GMACKIE

GMACKIE
  • Member

  • 7,300 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 29 September 2019 - 19:42

The Dipper, Easter 1963.

volkswagen001.jpg



#386 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 65,958 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 29 September 2019 - 21:50

Same spot, opposite direction...

September 2019.

0919bthrstdipper.jpg

#387 cpbell

cpbell
  • Member

  • 2,223 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 09 October 2019 - 15:59

Forrest's Elbow

Presumable the bank on the inside of the left-hander was removed to improve the sightline on exit?



#388 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 65,958 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 09 October 2019 - 21:01

I don't think the bank has been removed...

Trees have, and maybe it's been eased a little. So much so that I hadn't noticed it.

It's certainly still a very blind corner.




.

Edited by Ray Bell, 09 October 2019 - 21:36.


#389 cpbell

cpbell
  • Member

  • 2,223 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 09 October 2019 - 21:09

I don't think the bank has been removed...

Trees have, and maybe it's been eased a little. So much so that I hadn't noticed it.

You're the expert, Ray, but comparing the shots in "Reggazoni's" post, it seemed to me that, allowing for the effect of the wall in the modern view, the bank was significan;t lower than in the wonderful period shot.


Edited by cpbell, 09 October 2019 - 21:18.


#390 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 65,958 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 09 October 2019 - 21:38

I wouldn't say I'm the expert, I've only been there once in the past fifteen years...

What we need is a shot from the spectator area at the exit.

I think you're right that it's lower, but not much and certainly not enough to give any clear view of the exit. Maybe years of roadbuilding have raised the level of the road, too?

#391 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 65,958 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 09 October 2019 - 21:46

I'll revise my thoughts here...

Looking at the pic more closely:

1019forrestelbowentry.jpg

The white line would indicate the edge of the road as it always was and then the bank has been eased back several feet.

No doubt this was to comply with FIA regulations, which would probably have had something to do with sight lines. But it's still blind if even only a little less so than in the past.

#392 Regazzoni

Regazzoni
  • Member

  • 2,182 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 12 October 2019 - 03:20

F3 Coupe de Vitesse 1967, Pau

Pau-v.jpg

Fausto Coppi won here in 1952, the year he won the Tour de France by almost half an hour:

pau-bona.jpg



#393 Eric Dunsdon

Eric Dunsdon
  • Member

  • 910 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 12 October 2019 - 07:42

Campionissimo!. :cool:.



#394 ceesvdelst

ceesvdelst
  • Member

  • 91 posts
  • Joined: September 19

Posted 12 October 2019 - 09:51

Amazing how much the trees have grown!!



#395 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 65,958 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 12 October 2019 - 12:48

And the fences...

1019pauclimb.jpg

2016

#396 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 16,982 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 14 October 2019 - 17:33

Now, Pau is a very good subject for this thread.  it has a looooong history.  So with the long winter nights drawing in (or the short summer nights if you are down under) can't we find some Then & Nows for this iconic famous venue?  I have never mastered the skills to do these, but there are some suitable shots on Google Images, such as Nuvolari in 1935, or the snowy 1933 GP, so can one of you clever types oblige?  Pretty please?



#397 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Administrator

  • 34,227 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 14 October 2019 - 19:00

1933 has already been done:

 

https://forums.autos...dpost&p=8861457



#398 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 16,982 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 15 October 2019 - 16:54

Oops, missed that in my excitement about the Spa stuff!



#399 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 9,626 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 17 October 2019 - 13:22

Alcock's Garage, Brackley, during 1951 British GP week at Silverstone.  This is Villoresi's works Ferrari 375, which finished 3rd on race day - the visiting team having based its operation at the garage.  Gonzalez won in their well-used 375 muletto - achieving the marque's first defeat of Alfa Romeo. From this part of Brackley to the Silverstone pits - as the crow flies - was just over 6 miles...

 

GPL-1951-VILLORESI-FERRARI-ALCOCK-S-GARA

 

Today...courtesy yet again of the wonderful Google Earth Screen View:

 

Screen-Shot-2019-10-17-at-14-05-31.png

 

DCN



Advertisement

#400 nicanary

nicanary
  • Member

  • 608 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 17 October 2019 - 14:59

What's LXK76?  I thought a Healey Duncan Drone, but I think they were all cycle-winged. Definitely NOT a Cord!