Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

Imola 1994 - 25 years on


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
650 replies to this topic

#1 teejay

teejay
  • Member

  • 6,227 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 01 May 2019 - 06:03

Not sure if a thread on this will be well accepted or allowed - apologies if not.

 

1st of May 1994 was race day for one of the worst weekends in motorsport history. 

 

2 men died that weekend, and really, it could have nearly been 3. 

 

Roland Ratzenberger 

 

140439991.jpg

 

A great read on the man here - https://petrolicious...r-gone-too-soon

 

 

It is tragic that his death is often over looked, but it is only so because of the sheer magnitude of what came the day after. 

 

58441438_10157245730421944_3136733552503

 

There is no need for description of the man and his career - words can't justify his impact on F1, and his death was felt across the world, beyond just the motorsport community. 

 

I was 11 at the time and it still makes me bitterly sad 25 years on. 

 

Vale Roland, Vale Ayrton.

 

 



Advertisement

#2 Ibsey

Ibsey
  • Member

  • 525 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 01 May 2019 - 07:27

I've written 3 blogs to commemorate that tragic weekend:

 

  • The first gives a personal insight from highly respected bespoke helmet manufacture Mike Fairholme.  
  • The second commemorates Roland Ratzenberger. It also explains how F1 safety has improved since 1994 which has filtered down to the average road car.
  • The third blog remembers Ayrton Senna - a complex, charismatic yet contradictory character who evoked strong emotions within people. These qualities were evident during the final hours of his tragically short life, as the article explains.


#3 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 64,158 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 01 May 2019 - 07:47

 

Roland Ratzenberger 

It is tragic that his death is often over looked, but it is only so because of the sheer magnitude of what came the day after. 

 

 

 

I don't think it does - because of what happened the next day.  It has yoked Ratzenberger together with Senna for eternity.

 

Contrast how little attention is paid to poor Riccardo Paletti, or even Elio de Angelis.

 

(And it could have been worse that weekend - the Lamy/Lehto incident, the rogue tyre in the pit lane...)

 

One thing that I remember from that day was Nicola Larini.  He had just come 2nd in a Ferrari in Italy, it should have been the highest moment of his life, his first-ever points after years of trying, actually setting the record for most starts before first points.  And he had about three minutes to enjoy it.  He was just as stunned as everyone else.  What a contrast of emotions.
 



#4 Henri Greuter

Henri Greuter
  • Member

  • 13,425 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 01 May 2019 - 08:11


How about Friday 29th: How `safety workers` dealed with the Barrichello wreck aftermath...
Thank God for the fact he did not have a neck or head injury in the crash or because of how those track workers dealt with his car.
That was pretty much the moment when all luck had been used up and were left left to mercy....

No offence intended to anyone and I apologize to anyone who feels I still did so.
A threat to remember Imola '94 should have been opened before today.
Like Ensign14 wrote already: so many other moments of that weekend have gone lost because on one incident.
Just about every other of those accidents would have made the headlines of the weekend had it been the only mishap that weekend.
Anyway, for me it feels a bit as if this thread has the wrong title. Roland didn't die on 1/5.
If we want to commemorate Imola '94, we should have started yesterday.
The OP perfectly described what is the case why it hasn't happened.

I know I could have done it.
But given my reputation over here I fear that wouldn't have gone well with some people out here. Just like this message likely will be.
My sincere apologies to all who feel offended because of what I wrote. But we really should have started yesterday if we wanted to comemmorate everything of that weekend.

Sincerely,

Henri


Edited by PayasYouRace, 01 May 2019 - 11:47.


#5 Boing 2

Boing 2
  • Member

  • 4,907 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 01 May 2019 - 08:26

Fun fact, Imola is now as far away from us as Jim Clarks death was from it in 1994. Strangely Clarks death felt like ancient history in the mid 90's whilst this still feels quite recent now.



#6 thefinalapex

thefinalapex
  • Member

  • 4,269 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 01 May 2019 - 08:36

How about Friday 29th: How `safety workers` dealed with the Barrichello wreck aftermath...
Thank God for the fact he did not have a neck or head injury in the crash or because of how those track workers dealt with his car.
That was pretty much the moment when all luck had been used up and were left left to mercy....

No offence intended to anyone and I apologize to anyone who feels I still did so.
A threat to remember Imola '94 should have been opened before today.
Like Ensign14 wrote already: so many other moments of that weekend have gone lost because on one incident.
Just about every other of those accidents would have made the headlines of the weekend had it been the only mishap that weekend.
Anyway, for me it feels a bit as if this thread has the wrong title. Roland didn't die on 1/5.
If we want to commemorate Imola '94, we should have started yesterday.
The OP perfectly described what is the case why it hasn't happened.

I know I could have done it.
But given my reputation over here I fear that wouldn't have gone well with some people out here. Just like this message likely will be.
My sincere apologies to all who feel offended because of what I wrote. But we really should have started yesterday if we wanted to comemmorate everything of that weekend.

Sincerely,

Henri


Agreed Henri.



#7 Knowlesy

Knowlesy
  • Member

  • 4,056 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 01 May 2019 - 08:36

I definitely don't feel Roland's death is overlooked. As ensign says, he is associated with Senna now.

Even my mother remembers he died the same weekend and she hasn't watched a race since 1996 I would say! I reckon the quirky name helps as well.

What a gloomy weekend that was. A terrible year. All the **** motorsport can throw at you condensed into a short period, with Imola the centrepiece. A vivid memory that never fades, a quarter of a century on.

#8 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 64,158 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 01 May 2019 - 08:44

Even my mother remembers he died the same weekend and she hasn't watched a race since 1996 I would say! I reckon the quirky name helps as well.

 
And some of my non-motor-racing-obsessed contemporaries remember this...



#9 ANF

ANF
  • Member

  • 32,624 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 01 May 2019 - 08:52

(And it could have been worse that weekend - the Lamy/Lehto incident, the rogue tyre in the pit lane...)

Yes. Nine spectators reportedly sustained minor injuries from either the two wheels or other debris that went over the fence. https://youtu.be/HQS8M2hCtw0

#10 teejay

teejay
  • Member

  • 6,227 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 01 May 2019 - 08:57

Henri - definitely would have started it yesterday, but was away for work for most of the day. 



#11 messy

messy
  • Member

  • 8,178 posts
  • Joined: October 15

Posted 01 May 2019 - 08:57

Just a horrible, horrible, evil weekend. 

 

I'm sure some of what happened could maybe have been prevented in hindsight, but you don't go into any race weekend thinking it's all going to happen at once like that. Objectively Rubens was okay, the spectators weren't that badly hurt, that's good - but in the context of the weekend as a whole I just have this overriding sense of something nasty and evil just sweeping mercilessly through the paddock. It felt similar on that dull, wet evening at Suzuka in 2014. 

 

But 1994 felt a bit like that generally. We had Imola, Wendlinger, the Benetton pit fire, the horrifying crash in testing for Pedro Lamy. And a lot of safety advances ensure that we never had another year like that, for a long long time. 


Edited by messy, 01 May 2019 - 08:59.


#12 Henri Greuter

Henri Greuter
  • Member

  • 13,425 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 01 May 2019 - 09:04

Henri - definitely would have started it yesterday, but was away for work for most of the day.


No offence intended to you Teejay, :up:

#13 Knowlesy

Knowlesy
  • Member

  • 4,056 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 01 May 2019 - 09:11


And some of my non-motor-racing-obsessed contemporaries remember this...

https://www.youtube....h?v=j6o-aCZSyi8


Yep! My ol' lass remembers that!

My dad tricked me into thinking he was actually the man behind Roland Rat. I was really upset when Ratzenberger was killed that the rat would be no more. I don't even know why as I am pretty sure it stopped being a thing before I was even born. Facepalms all round.

Err, anyways, this rambling has no place here. Carry on.

#14 Anuity

Anuity
  • Member

  • 1,465 posts
  • Joined: September 17

Posted 01 May 2019 - 09:12

I remember that day vividly, watching the race live on TV. It was a beautiful sunny summer like day and being a kid it was impactful seeing it unfold the way it did.

 

Pretty much all the drivers/f1 related are posting something today on social media, but there was nothing yesterday. It is a bit sad... but I think it is completely understandable that people put Senna ahead of Roland. 



#15 steferrari

steferrari
  • Member

  • 1,687 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 01 May 2019 - 09:14

D5Yf144UYAAqENJ.jpg



#16 mmmcurry

mmmcurry
  • Member

  • 2,761 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 01 May 2019 - 09:16

It's one of those you remember where you were days for me. Racing my Yokomo YZ10 at Sharley Park near Chesterfield (RC car), someone had a portable TV we were trying to watch the race on. One guy commented "that Schumacher looks good, as long as he doesn't kill himself I think he'll do well", yeah he did ok. Sad weekend and the knee jerk reaction was overdone.

 

Steve.



#17 BuddyHolly

BuddyHolly
  • Member

  • 3,554 posts
  • Joined: December 15

Posted 01 May 2019 - 09:21

Surely this thread is a day late?  but anyway I'll never forget that weekend, I used to videotape all the races and I still have my tape of that race but as much as I cannot watch it again, I cannot seem to destroy it either.

 

of the three crashes that weekend I always thought Barrichellos looked the worst, amazing that he was okay and the others lost of course in Ayrtons case it was mainly (as far as I'm aware) purely intense bad luck that the suspension arm attached to the wheel pierced his helmet, had that missed.. who knows?

 

Horrible weekend full of other incidents too.  Not only did it rob us of two lovely people, one of which was one of the best drivers of all time but it also utterly robbed us of what could have been one of the greatest duels in F1 history.  Senna vs Schumacher.

 

RIP Roland and Ayrton.


Edited by BuddyHolly, 01 May 2019 - 09:26.


#18 Boing 2

Boing 2
  • Member

  • 4,907 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 01 May 2019 - 09:26

Just a horrible, horrible, evil weekend. 

 

I'm sure some of what happened could maybe have been prevented in hindsight, but you don't go into any race weekend thinking it's all going to happen at once like that. Objectively Rubens was okay, the spectators weren't that badly hurt, that's good - but in the context of the weekend as a whole I just have this overriding sense of something nasty and evil just sweeping mercilessly through the paddock. It felt similar on that dull, wet evening at Suzuka in 2014. 

 

But 1994 felt a bit like that generally. We had Imola, Wendlinger, the Benetton pit fire, the horrifying crash in testing for Pedro Lamy. And a lot of safety advances ensure that we never had another year like that, for a long long time. 

 

Yeah Alesi fractured his neck in pre season testing, Lehto injured his neck too, Brundle nearly got his neck broke in Interlagos, Montermini's feet were left dangling out of a broken tub in his crash in Barcelona, 94 suddenly felt very dangerous after years of complacency.



#19 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 35,289 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 01 May 2019 - 15:08

I agree with other posts. Imola 1994 was the crescendo of a hidden danger that had been building silently for years and years. Akin to if the Titanic had been sailing towards the iceberg in complete darkness.

Sometimes I try to think if it really was just a string of freak accidents, or if the undercurrent of speed, danger, politics and culture had been building, but in a language that nobody within F1 spoke.

I wasn't even born at the time, but May 01 is always such a sombre day. The ultimate "IF", spelt backwards, etc.

Advertisement

#20 Tsarwash

Tsarwash
  • Member

  • 13,725 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 01 May 2019 - 15:16

I'm sure that you are all familiar with this quote from Max. 

 

In a press conference ten years later Mosley said, "Roland had been forgotten. So I went to his funeral because everyone went to Senna's. I thought it was important that somebody went to his."[10]



#21 milestone 11

milestone 11
  • Member

  • 18,417 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 01 May 2019 - 15:17

Surely this thread is a day late?  but anyway I'll never forget that weekend, I used to videotape all the races and I still have my tape of that race but as much as I cannot watch it again, I cannot seem to destroy it either.
 
of the three crashes that weekend I always thought Barrichellos looked the worst, amazing that he was okay and the others lost of course in Ayrtons case it was mainly (as far as I'm aware) purely intense bad luck that the suspension arm attached to the wheel pierced his helmet, had that missed.. who knows?
 
Horrible weekend full of other incidents too.  Not only did it rob us of two lovely people, one of which was one of the best drivers of all time but it also utterly robbed us of what could have been one of the greatest duels in F1 history.  Senna vs Schumacher.
 
RIP Roland and Ayrton.

Same here Buddy, in my case though, whilst I still have the tape, I've nothing to play it on, it's a Betamax. :rolleyes:



#22 milestone 11

milestone 11
  • Member

  • 18,417 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 01 May 2019 - 15:28

Sky ran a superb* Journalists Special this morning, *unusual. Simon Lazenby withe Marray Maurice Hamilton and David Tremayne. Catch it if you can. Followed by an interview with Prost by Steve Ryder. Some fond memories of Roland and Ayrton.

 

Where's this place been all day? :confused:


Edited by milestone 11, 01 May 2019 - 15:47.


#23 MikeTekRacing

MikeTekRacing
  • Member

  • 14,371 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 01 May 2019 - 15:29

I'm sure that you are all familiar with this quote from Max. 

 

In a press conference ten years later Mosley said, "Roland had been forgotten. So I went to his funeral because everyone went to Senna's. I thought it was important that somebody went to his."[10]

that's just so sad.



#24 Tsarwash

Tsarwash
  • Member

  • 13,725 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 01 May 2019 - 15:33

 

of the three crashes that weekend I always thought Barrichellos looked the worst,

Ratzenberger's always looked the worse to me. 195 mph straight into a wall. No chance. 

 

 

Rip Roland and Ayrton. 



#25 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 35,289 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 01 May 2019 - 15:34

Where's this place been all day? :confused:

Forum was down pretty much all day. The 6hr gap between Boing 2's post and mine sum up the downtime quite well.



#26 Burai

Burai
  • Member

  • 1,920 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 01 May 2019 - 15:38

I agree with other posts. Imola 1994 was the crescendo of a hidden danger that had been building silently for years and years. Akin to if the Titanic had been sailing towards the iceberg in complete darkness.

Sometimes I try to think if it really was just a string of freak accidents, or if the undercurrent of speed, danger, politics and culture had been building, but in a language that nobody within F1 spoke.

I wasn't even born at the time, but May 01 is always such a sombre day. The ultimate "IF", spelt backwards, etc.

 

This is very true. It's why I get a bit angry when people talk about F1 cars being too easy to drive and that the cars and tracks are too safe. People were saying the same thing 25 years ago and the complacency that had set in with the time that had passed since Villeneuve's death lead us directly to that Imola weekend. As mentioned above, de Angelis' death had been all but forgotten as he wasn't a superstar and it hadn't happened at a race.

 

But the warning signs were there, particularly in the Comas and Donnelly crashes, but because drivers were emerging relatively unscathed from massive accidents the signs were ignored. You'd be forgiven for watching the two Minardi's coming together at Monza in '93 and thinking that F1 cars and their pilots were nigh on indestructible. We learned very quickly through winter testing and then the first four races of 1994 that we'd simply been incredibly fortunate that nobody had been seriously hurt for so long.

 

I never want to see anything like that ever again. I don't want to see drivers defying death. I just want to see them race.



#27 RisingFive

RisingFive
  • Member

  • 72 posts
  • Joined: August 17

Posted 01 May 2019 - 15:39

Will always feel very fresh.

It is profoundly strange we still don’t know what happened.

#28 Loosenut

Loosenut
  • Member

  • 1,200 posts
  • Joined: September 17

Posted 01 May 2019 - 15:42

I didn't know about Roland until raceday, I didn't find out Ayrton had died either until it was on the news later that night.
I was teaching guitar to one of my mates. We were at his house having a beer and playing our guitars and I saw the TV talking about the crash. I just thought they were talking about Roland and now today Ayrton had a bad crash today. The sound on the TV was off. Then they displayed a photo of him and faded it to black and white with the caption: Ayrton Senna 1960 - 1994.
I was totally stunned, I couldn't believe what I was seeing.
Hard to believe that was 25 years ago now!

#29 milestone 11

milestone 11
  • Member

  • 18,417 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 01 May 2019 - 15:44

I'm sure that you are all familiar with this quote from Max. 

 

In a press conference ten years later Mosley said, "Roland had been forgotten. So I went to his funeral because everyone went to Senna's. I thought it was important that somebody went to his."[10]

 

 

that's just so sad.

Sad indeed. Roland's friend, Johnny Herbert and three others were the only drivers to pay respect. The other three were, Gerhard Berger, Heinz-Harald Frentzen and Karl Wendlinger.



#30 monolulu

monolulu
  • Member

  • 3,334 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 01 May 2019 - 15:50

Sky ran a superb* Journalists Special this morning, *unusual. Simon Lazenby withe Marray Maurice Hamilton and David Tremayne. Catch it if you can. Followed by an interview with Prost by Steve Ryder. Some fond memories of Roland and Ayrton.
 
Where's this place been all day? :confused:

Does anyone know when this programme was produced as Lazenby says that there has been no F1 deaths since Senna. No one corrects him :( Perhaps recorded at enough anniversary?

#31 eibyyz

eibyyz
  • Member

  • 2,029 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 01 May 2019 - 15:57

My daughter, being a two-year-old at the time--and 1 May being her birthday--made for a hectic weekend.  Pre-internet, I had forgotten there was a GP!  I turned on ESPN just in time for the last lap, Schu was droning around and Varsha was remarking on Alboreto's crash with a 'on top of everything' tone in his voice.  I was wondering where Senna was as Varsha continued "...Ratzenberger yesterday and Senna today..." and I turned numb.  

 

I was unpleasant company that day, but I had to screw it together for my daughter.  I did see the end of Talladega, Dale winning would normally cause me to grumble but I couldn't muster anything--until he mentioned Ayrton in victory lane.  That was it for me. 

 

(It took a couple years, but I became a fan of Dale's.)


Edited by eibyyz, 01 May 2019 - 16:06.


#32 Viryfan

Viryfan
  • Member

  • 4,351 posts
  • Joined: June 12

Posted 01 May 2019 - 16:01

Does anyone know when this programme was produced as Lazenby says that there has been no F1 deaths since Senna. No one corrects him :( Perhaps recorded at enough anniversary?

 

Early 2014



#33 f1paul

f1paul
  • Member

  • 8,276 posts
  • Joined: April 16

Posted 01 May 2019 - 16:03

The darkest weekend in F1 but we are much better off now due to it.

 

Nevertheless Roland and Ayrton should not have been taken away from us like that.  :(



#34 alonstar

alonstar
  • Member

  • 230 posts
  • Joined: November 18

Posted 01 May 2019 - 16:10

Does anyone know when this programme was produced as Lazenby says that there has been no F1 deaths since Senna. No one corrects him :( Perhaps recorded at enough anniversary?

 

To be honest, Jules is already barely remembered. As all the other dead drivers. For F1 circus only Senna seems to mater. That's why all these pouring tributes for senna leave a bitter taste of unfairness in my mouth.



#35 7MGTEsup

7MGTEsup
  • Member

  • 2,609 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 01 May 2019 - 16:12

But the warning signs were there, particularly in the Comas and Donnelly crashes, but because drivers were emerging relatively unscathed from massive accidents the signs were ignored. You'd be forgiven for watching the two Minardi's coming together at Monza in '93 and thinking that F1 cars and their pilots were nigh on indestructible. We learned very quickly through winter testing and then the first four races of 1994 that we'd simply been incredibly fortunate that nobody had been seriously hurt for so long.

 

I never want to see anything like that ever again. I don't want to see drivers defying death. I just want to see them race.

 

Don't forget Zanardi's huge crash at Raidillon in 1993, that was a real escape if ever I saw one.



#36 Viryfan

Viryfan
  • Member

  • 4,351 posts
  • Joined: June 12

Posted 01 May 2019 - 16:14

As shown in the tweet below, i find incredible to see how the FW16 monocoque has been skewed by the violence of the impact.

 

It basically became gruyere on the top part of the front end of the survival cell.

 

 

https://twitter.com/...351861694693376



#37 milestone 11

milestone 11
  • Member

  • 18,417 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 01 May 2019 - 16:15

Early 2014


Yes. In the opening introduction Lazenby says, "May the first marks twenty years since..." . I'd not seen it the first time that it must have been shown, we only had Spanish coverage at that time.

Edited by milestone 11, 01 May 2019 - 16:15.


#38 Loosenut

Loosenut
  • Member

  • 1,200 posts
  • Joined: September 17

Posted 01 May 2019 - 16:16

To be honest, Jules is already barely remembered. As all the other dead drivers. For F1 circus only Senna seems to mater. That's why all these pouring tributes for senna leave a bitter taste of unfairness in my mouth.

Lots of rock stars have died too, but Buddy Holly and Elvis are probably still remembered more than most.
It doesn't mean anyone cares any less, it's just that they were such giants of their game..

#39 eibyyz

eibyyz
  • Member

  • 2,029 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 01 May 2019 - 16:18

To be honest, Jules is already barely remembered. As all the other dead drivers. For F1 circus only Senna seems to mater. That's why all these pouring tributes for senna leave a bitter taste of unfairness in my mouth.

 

Same in NA$CAR--Before Dale and After Dale, ignoring Petty and Irwin.



Advertisement

#40 milestone 11

milestone 11
  • Member

  • 18,417 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 01 May 2019 - 16:22

To be honest, Jules is already barely remembered. As all the other dead drivers. For F1 circus only Senna seems to mater. That's why all these pouring tributes for senna leave a bitter taste of unfairness in my mouth.


I'm sure that's not the case.

#41 BuddyHolly

BuddyHolly
  • Member

  • 3,554 posts
  • Joined: December 15

Posted 01 May 2019 - 16:30

To be honest, Jules is already barely remembered. As all the other dead drivers. For F1 circus only Senna seems to mater. That's why all these pouring tributes for senna leave a bitter taste of unfairness in my mouth.

For some perhaps but not all, while I'm drawing breath I'll still remember some of my lost heroes very fondly, the likes of Jim Clark, Francois Cevert, Elio de Angelis, Michele Alboreto, Patrick Depailler, Tom Pryce, Ronnie Peterson, Roger Williamson, Jo Siffert, Jochen Rindt, Ricardo Rodriguez and more will never been forgotten by some of us.



#42 milestone 11

milestone 11
  • Member

  • 18,417 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 01 May 2019 - 16:34

Lots of rock stars have died too, but Buddy Holly and Elvis are probably still remembered more than most.
It doesn't mean anyone cares any less, it's just that they were such giants of their game..

You're right of course. However, a better analogy would have been to refer solely to February 3rd 1959. Buddy Holly was not alone in that loss, Ritchie Valens and The Big Bopper were lost in the crash too. How often are they mentioned? It's just that like Buddy, Senna was the superstar.

Edited by milestone 11, 01 May 2019 - 18:51.


#43 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Racing Sims Forum Host

  • 51,692 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 01 May 2019 - 16:37

To be honest, Jules is already barely remembered. As all the other dead drivers. For F1 circus only Senna seems to mater. That's why all these pouring tributes for senna leave a bitter taste of unfairness in my mouth.

 

It is the silver anniversary of that weekend. So we're going to be talking about it.

 

Jules is not forgotten. When we get to Suzuka I'm sure people will be remembering him too. However, that Imola weekend wasn't just about Senna. It was about the whole catalogue of disasters over the entire weekend.



#44 ANF

ANF
  • Member

  • 32,624 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 01 May 2019 - 16:39

As shown in the tweet below, i find incredible to see how the FW16 monocoque has been skewed by the violence of the impact.
 
It basically became gruyere on the top part of the front end of the survival cell.
 
 
https://twitter.com/...351861694693376

Here is another high-resolution picture of the right-hand side of the car: http://orig00.devian...ory-d5f5oqk.jpg
I suppose the big black mark under the Rothmans logo is from the tyre/wheel assembly. And I suppose the head would have been thrown forward and to the right when the car connected with the barrier...

#45 Cornholio

Cornholio
  • Member

  • 902 posts
  • Joined: March 16

Posted 01 May 2019 - 16:54

This is very true. It's why I get a bit angry when people talk about F1 cars being too easy to drive and that the cars and tracks are too safe. People were saying the same thing 25 years ago and the complacency that had set in with the time that had passed since Villeneuve's death lead us directly to that Imola weekend. As mentioned above, de Angelis' death had been all but forgotten as he wasn't a superstar and it hadn't happened at a race.

 

But the warning signs were there, particularly in the Comas and Donnelly crashes, but because drivers were emerging relatively unscathed from massive accidents the signs were ignored. You'd be forgiven for watching the two Minardi's coming together at Monza in '93 and thinking that F1 cars and their pilots were nigh on indestructible. We learned very quickly through winter testing and then the first four races of 1994 that we'd simply been incredibly fortunate that nobody had been seriously hurt for so long.

 

I never want to see anything like that ever again. I don't want to see drivers defying death. I just want to see them race.

 

I must admit I had that attitude at the time (I was 11 in my defence, but still..). I'd started following in 1991 and soon started reading up all about the sport's history, and it was firm in my mind that fatalities were only something that happened "back then" and not in the present day. I was forced to miss watching qualifying so first I heard of Ratzenberger's accident was a news report, I remember Murray reporting from the pit lane and his tone of voice, and being genuinely confused as to why he sounded so concerned, I figured it would at worst be a Zanardi Spa type thing, out injured for a while. I first found out it was fatal reading a Ceefax teletext report and I that's probably the most physically stunned I've been in my life even to this day. I definitely had it in my mind that the drivers were all indestructible.

 

A short while later I went back to read it again (at least twice) just to check I wasn't imagining it. Weirdly I remember little details like it being updated as they seemingly couldn't make their mind up whether to reference de Angelis in testing or Paletti in their "first death since" line.



#46 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 35,289 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 01 May 2019 - 16:58

That's why all these pouring tributes for senna leave a bitter taste of unfairness in my mouth.


I don't think we should turn this thread into a p***ing contest ...

As many have already said, the reason why Roland isn't forgotten (although we're often told otherwise) is because of his link to Senna.

And to the same tune, I think the reason why Senna's death is still at the very forefront of F1 is because he died the very next day. Two deaths in two days. During the same Grand Prix. Unfathomable and unprecedented.

You cannot separate one from the other, hence why we have the thread title "Imola 1994". I think it's fair to say we are commemorating the defining weekend in F1 history, and Senna is the headline.

One of the most bizarre things for me to comprehend is that both of them died just... crashing. Heck, de Angelis' rear wing fell off, Gilles was flung from the cockpit and most recently Bianchi hit a digger. I wish not to trivialise any death, and I understand completely that there is always a cause, but Roland and Ayrton crashed just like anybody else.

I will again expose my youth... I can only assume that the older audiences will make a clear distinction "F1 before" and "F1 after" ...

I often try and imagine Senna superimposed onto the grid when watching 'historic' clips from the late 1990s. It isn't unreasonable to say he could've been there in Jerez 1997, or Spa 1998, but somehow it just doesn't work. He doesn't fit. It was the end of an era. "What era?" is totally down to your own interpretation of Formula 1.

For me, it was the mystique. Racing from another universe.

#47 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 17,232 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 01 May 2019 - 17:06

It was the most tragical raing weekend of my life and racing lost a lot.

RIP to both Senna and Ratzenberger.



#48 Henri Greuter

Henri Greuter
  • Member

  • 13,425 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 01 May 2019 - 17:10

I don't think we should turn this thread into a p***ing contest ...

As many have already said, the reason why Roland isn't forgotten (although we're often told otherwise) is because of his link to Senna.

And to the same tune, I think the reason why Senna's death is still at the very forefront of F1 is because he died the very next day. Two deaths in two days. During the same Grand Prix. Unfathomable and unprecedented.

You cannot separate one from the other, hence why we have the thread title "Imola 1994". I think it's fair to say we are commemorating the defining weekend in F1 history, and Senna is the headline.

One of the most bizarre things for me to comprehend is that both of them died just... crashing. Heck, de Angelis' rear wing fell off, Gilles was flung from the cockpit and most recently Bianchi hit a digger. I wish not to trivialise any death, and I understand completely that there is always a cause, but Roland and Ayrton crashed just like anybody else.

I will again expose my youth... I can only assume that the older audiences will make a clear distinction "F1 before" and "F1 after" ...

I often try and imagine Senna superimposed onto the grid when watching 'historic' clips from the late 1990s. It isn't unreasonable to say he could've been there in Jerez 1997, or Spa 1998, but somehow it just doesn't work. He doesn't fit. It was the end of an era. "What era?" is totally down to your own interpretation of Formula 1.

For me, it was the mystique. Racing from another universe.

 

 

I don't think the timing between the fatalities has much to do with it.

No-one remembers Chis Bristow because of being killed in the same weekend, in fact: the very same day, in the very same race as was Alan Stacey, or the other way around.

We didn't do so 25 years ago either....

(But who remembers them? I'm mentioning Spa 1960....)



#49 Otaku

Otaku
  • Member

  • 1,790 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 01 May 2019 - 17:44

58694259_2161089157301541_37637354570163

#50 BuddyHolly

BuddyHolly
  • Member

  • 3,554 posts
  • Joined: December 15

Posted 01 May 2019 - 17:46

You're right of course. However, a better analogy would have been to refer solely to February 3rd 1959. Buddy Holly was not alone in that loss, Ritchie Valens and The Big Bopper were lost in the crash too. How often are they mentioned? It's just that like Buddy, Senna was the superstar.

Going wildly off topic here but did you know that J P Richardson aka The Big Bopper is still not inducted in the Rock and Roll hall of fame, which is utterly outrageous considering his achievements in the music business include:-

 

He wrote 'White Lightnin' - A number one hit for George Jones and the song that launched his career

He wrote' Running Bear' - A number one hit for Johnny Preston

He invented the music video and made the first one in 1958

He predicted the advent of music television in 1959 and was working toward building a studio to make music videos until his untimely death. 

He holds the world record for continuous radio broadcasting (5 days, 2 hours and 8 minutes)

This man was a true innovator at his craft and deserves a place amongst the greats of the music world in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

 

Hope you forgive me mods but this is one thing that annoys me to a shocking extent.  Sorry (but I'll understand if you delete this)


Edited by BuddyHolly, 01 May 2019 - 17:50.