889 replies to this topic

[PayasYouRace]

Seriously guys, you’ve been following F1 enough to know that there can be close seasons where the form from one car to another can vary between races throughout the season.

[TurnOffTheLights]

Mercedes guys "cruising" while Vettel lead by 10 seconds in Germany? Cruising while he pressured Bottas from behind in Baku after a SC restart? Cruising at the start of a GP where they Mercedes 3rd and 4th? I see quite a pattern there. He made the mistakes when he was in the ascendancy, not under the cosh, so certainly doesn't fit with your narrative.

 

Do you ever cruise if you're behind and trying to catch somebody? Or in a tough fight at the start/restart of a GP? Obviously not.

 

Taking quali as reference Mercedes was the quicker car in around 2/3 races of the season.

 

I think, Hamilton was cruising in a lot of those races when their car was quicker after he had a sufficient gap. When you're cruising you're less mistake prone.

I don't think Vettel was able to cruise like that in more than 1 or 2 races over the whole season.

It was plain obvious he was overdriving a lot.

 

Baku? Overdriving at the restart of a race, knowing that probably having the worse car over the full season he had to win every race Ferrari was able to compete and Baku was one of them.

Monza? Overdriving, because he felt betrayed by the team, it was one of those 1/3 races of the season in which Ferrari was the quicker car and - again - he knew he had to win those under all circumstances if he wanted to keep his chances to win the WDC in an inferior car.

Germany? Overdriving, because the team had costed him many seconds when he had to stay behind Räikkönen and those 10 seconds were nothing, since Hamilton had much, much better tyres in the rain. And this - again - was one of those 1/3 races of the season Ferrari had the slightly quicker car (in dry conditions).

 

Yes, I can see a pattern, too: 

Mercedes had the overall better car over the season. Vettel tried to compensate this by overdriving, ****ed up and that was it.

 

Luckily, this season he doesn't need to overdrive anymore, because even he should realise that this year Ferrari isn't only slightly behind like in 2018. Therefore I'm expecting him to make less mistakes and have a season like 2015. If he's completely fed up, it might become another 2014, though.

[Jordan44]

Do you ever cruise if you're behind and trying to catch somebody? Or in a tough fight at the start/restart of a GP? Obviously not.

 

Taking quali as reference Mercedes was the quicker car in around 2/3 races of the season.

 

I think, Hamilton was cruising in a lot of those races when their car was quicker after he had a sufficient gap. When you're cruising you're less mistake prone.

I don't think Vettel was able to cruise like that in more than 1 or 2 races over the whole season.

It was plain obvious he was overdriving a lot.

 

Baku? Overdriving at the restart of a race, knowing that probably having the worse car over the full season he had to win every race Ferrari was able to compete and Baku was one of them.

Monza? Overdriving, because he felt betrayed by the team, it was one of those 1/3 races of the season in which Ferrari was the quicker car and - again - he knew he had to win those under all circumstances if he wanted to keep his chances to win the WDC in an inferior car.

Germany? Overdriving, because the team had costed him many seconds when he had to stay behind Räikkönen and those 10 seconds were nothing, since Hamilton had much, much better tyres in the rain. And this - again - was one of those 1/3 races of the season Ferrari had the slightly quicker car (in dry conditions).

 

Yes, I can see a pattern, too: 

Mercedes had the overall better car over the season. Vettel tried to compensate this by overdriving, ****ed up and that was it.

 

Luckily, this season he doesn't need to overdrive anymore, because even he should realise that this year Ferrari isn't only slightly behind like in 2018. Therefore I'm expecting him to make less mistakes and have a season like 2015. If he's completely fed up, it might become another 2014, though.

 

These are all simply really poor excuses... up to the Italian GP, Sebastian had taken 5 pole positions (with 3 in a row - much more consistent than Mercedes achieved!) and Lewis 6. The first 2/3 of the season it was in no way a clearly inferior car, it had the pace to win races on merit and did so. As a Mercedes fan it felt like they had finally been caught and pegged back, that's how it felt within Brackley as well, and I'm sure that's how it felt in Maranello.

 

Mercedes only got an edge when Ferrari screwed up their upgrade package, starting in Singapore, and they were chasing ground from that point onwards.

Edited by Jordan44, 12 May 2019 - 00:00.

[Alfisti]

I will just say that this being the fastest generation of F1 cars ever whilst their engines are using 40+% less fuel than the previous generation of engines is actually stunning crazy magic and I adore it.

The problem is not the engines. The problem is the dominance of one team and F1 not having a dynamic enough organisational structure to cope with that.

Engines are shite. I dont care how powerful or efficient hey are, they sound slow. Theres no drama. No ....... theater.

[Eff1]

I'm not saying the Merc was clearly superior or anything, just that the idea that the Ferrari was clearly superior(which seems to be popular opinion around here, especially from Merc fans) is also entirely ridiculous.

Correction. Hamilton fans.

[Dratini]

Mercedes only got an edge when Ferrari screwed up their upgrade package, starting in Singapore, and they were chasing ground from that point onwards.

On that note I recall watching an interview from Vettel after the Italian GP where he said that he knew the package was strong enough that they would come back in the championship. The impression I got when he said that was that he felt Ferrari were quicker than Mercedes. So evidently things went awry from there.

[Vielleicht]

Engines are shite. I dont care how powerful or efficient hey are, they sound slow. Theres no drama. No ....... theater.

Ok, you’re entitled to your opinion. But I do really appreciate their efficiency rather a lot and I’m not ashamed to say that. I also do think they’ve become a bit of a scapegoat for all the things wrong with F1. If the competition was close and the racing good I don’t think anyone would complain about them nearly as much as they do.

[w1Y]

Ok, you’re entitled to your opinion. But I do really appreciate their efficiency rather a lot and I’m not ashamed to say that. I also do think they’ve become a bit of a scapegoat for all the things wrong with F1. If the competition was close and the racing good I don’t think anyone would complain about them nearly as much as they do.

People on here clearly dont watch old races. Most of them were boring and no where near as tense as todays races.

Modern day people will never ever be satisfied.

[Dratini]

Engines are shite. I dont care how powerful or efficient hey are, they sound slow. Theres no drama. No ....... theater.

Have you been to a live race in the last couple of years? They might come off that way on TV but in person they don't sound anything like 'slow'.

[Vielleicht]

People on here clearly dont watch old races. Most of them were boring and no where near as tense as todays races.

Modern day people will never ever be satisfied.

Are you in the position then of, having been a long time fan, enjoying today's F1 more than you did in days gone by? Becuase I think that's the opposite of the common trend and so very interesting indeed. What are your reasons?

 

Also, when modern options such as IndyCar and Formula E put on regularly tense races with good racing and a close championship whilst F1 provides its 6th year of Mercedes being fairly comfortable...and viewers have enjoyed F1 providing varitety of winners and mobilty through the grid in the past..  it's not hard to understand the frame of reference that modern viewers are working with.

Edited by Vielleicht, 12 May 2019 - 08:18.

[PayasYouRace]

Ok, you’re entitled to your opinion. But I do really appreciate their efficiency rather a lot and I’m not ashamed to say that. I also do think they’ve become a bit of a scapegoat for all the things wrong with F1. If the competition was close and the racing good I don’t think anyone would complain about them nearly as much as they do.

 

I think you're spot on on the scapegoat aspect. One only needs to look at the "class 2" teams and see that it has been incredibly competitive for the past couple of seasons and continues to be so. The problem is the almost "baked in" advantage the top 3 teams have, which is mostly due to resources available.

[ConsiderAndGo]

Is anyone actually going to watch this?

Going to be a lovely day in most of the UK today. Can think of 1000 things I’d rather do than watch this nonsense.

[PayasYouRace]

Is anyone actually going to watch this?

Going to be a lovely day in most of the UK today. Can think of 1000 things I’d rather do than watch this nonsense.

 

Of course, because there's 18 other cars besides the Mercedes-Benz to provide intrigue and drama.

[Ivanhoe]

Of course, because there's 18 other cars besides the Mercedes-Benz to provide intrigue and drama.

Indeed, let’s hope the director will show some interesting midfield battles instead of showing a Mercedes cruising around to victory.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 12 May 2019 - 08:51.

[dweller23]

Of course, because there's 18 other cars besides the Mercedes-Benz to provide intrigue and drama.

Who would want to watch race for 3rd place? That makes no sense.

[ConsiderAndGo]

Of course, because there's 18 other cars besides the Mercedes-Benz to provide intrigue and drama.

But it’s never shown on TV? You get excited by battles for 12th?

[TheJammin]

Why even bother having a full grid of cars then? Let's just have 2 and hope they fight.

Of course you're going to watch for 3rd place or 10th place.

I suppose anyone outside the top 4 or 6 in Football shouldn't be playing then?

[kosmos]

Why even bother having a full grid of cars then? Let's just have 2 and hope they fight.

Of course you're going to watch for 3rd place or 10th place.

I suppose anyone outside the top 4 or 6 in Football shouldn't be playing then?

 

 

Football is a bad analogy in my opinion, in football anything can happen all the time, small teams can beat the big teams, in F1 no so much.

[TheJammin]

Anything can happen in motorsports too. Sure not as much in the bulletproof era, but there can be failures, there can be giant killing from time to time. Perhaps not Williams doing the slaying, but it can happen where midfield teams fight at the front if the stars align.

I just find it incredible that some people think there's no point watching what's going on if there's no battle for the lead. How often in history has there been a battle for the lead? Its surprisingly rare.

Of course Merc are crushing it at the moment and have too big a gap, but there's so much more action down through the field. It gets annoying hearing "it's the first time I wont watch a race, been watching since the 1700's" every weekend. I want F1 to be closer competition too, but most team sports have some teams perennially at the front and others at the back. Such as Football, Leicester won a surprise title a few years ago but otherwise the top 6 seem to be locked in place all the time. But that's still popular despite being boring a lot of the time too.

[noikeee]

People on here clearly dont watch old races. Most of them were boring and no where near as tense as todays races.

Modern day people will never ever be satisfied.

This, however it does have to be said that the modern competitive order is more predictable over time than the 90s or 80s, so that is a negative factor. Older races could be very very boring but you had a wider range of possible winners (apart from rare seasons like 88 or 92), winners tended to change from season to season, and there was always a bit of uncertainty with the reliability problems. What modern F1 has is infinitely more action and closer dicing between cars.

[Synkro89]

Who would want to watch race for 3rd place? That makes no sense.

 

But it’s never shown on TV? You get excited by battles for 12th?

 

What the hell guys, If he wants to watch let him be. How about you leave the forum and don't watch the race. Better than being pessimistic and turning on others who want to watch. Yes its a sad state of affairs atm but if something does happen,you will all be crawling back anyway,

Edited by Synkro89, 12 May 2019 - 09:16.

[StanBarrett2]

 Can think of 1000 things I’d rather do than watch this nonsense.

But you'd waste half a day trying to choose then eh ?

Edited by StanBarrett2, 12 May 2019 - 09:19.

[Marklar]

I just do it like the last race and use onboards if the FOM is deciding to show us a procession or the garages again.

I actually think that it's not a given that the race will be terrible. 2016 and 2017 were very decent races, but ideally it will need Ferrari/Max to have a Alonso 2011 esque start, otherwise it will be very dire at the top. However, the longer DRS zone in recent years made this track a bit more overtaking friendly, so I can see some decent battles down the field regardless.

[TomNokoe]

Race thread x

https://forums.autos...d/#entry8740830

[PayasYouRace]

Who would want to watch race for 3rd place? That makes no sense.

 

 

But it’s never shown on TV? You get excited by battles for 12th?

 

I'm a motor racing fan. I get excited by any battle for position. That's why I follow the sport.

[noikeee]

I'm a motor racing fan too but tbh I can get far more bored and discouraged about a race if 1st isn't even remotely in question, regardless if it's the greatest race ever for 6th. Ultimately what everyone is fighting for is the win. I totally get that viewpoint.

[AlexPrime]

Football is a bad analogy in my opinion, in football anything can happen all the time, small teams can beat the big teams, in F1 no so much.

Football actually is terrific this season. CL games were better than Hollywood.

[Kalmake]

What's the penalty for not going around the cone after missing turn 1? F2 are giving only 5 seconds.

[noikeee]

If we're making a football analogy, for me watching a race for 6th is a bit like watching a game to see who has the best technique for hitting a corner kick, or for the tactical nuances of how each team is organizing their defence, whilst the result is 4-0 and not remotely in question. It can all be relatively interesting for the immersed fan, but what really drives you and makes you jump off your seat is the big time drama that's missing, not these details.

 

But football analogies are difficult because in a match there's 2 teams whereas in a race there's 20 drivers, so I can understand other points of view too.

[Dratini]

I've found myself supporting Max more these days because if anyone seems capable of making the battle up front interesting it's him.

[dweller23]

What the hell guys, If he wants to watch let him be. How about you leave the forum and don't watch the race. Better than being pessimistic and turning on others who want to watch. Yes its a sad state of affairs atm but if something does happen,you will all be crawling back anyway,

See, I will be watching, to see who wins Mercedes battle. Your post is very manipulative, you are trying to paint me in the "bad" light, like I'm the bad guy because I watch races to see fight for the win, not fight for the third place. I don't care if he watches, I'm merely pointing out that watching the race not to see who wins, but who gets 3rd position is a wrong approach and does disservice to everyone who worked hard to achieve that victory. And I don't have to "crawl back" at any point, because I'm not leaving.

 

And please, refrain from those petty suggestions like "How about you leave the forum and don't watch the race". First of all, this is "Racing Comments" forum not "F1 Comments", so even if we assume that I would stop watching F1, why would I leave that forum? Second of all, this is "Racing Comments" forum, so it is natural that I can give my opinion. What I feel like is not fair and LITERALLY "turning on others", is trying to manipulate someone's post by painting them in bad light.

 

How do you go from "Who would want to watch race for 3rd place?" to "pessimistic and turning on others who want to watch"?

[Ivanhoe]

Who would want to watch race for 3rd place? That makes no sense.

There might be some interesting battles in top 10 as well, Max maybe fighting with the Ferrari’s, Haas, McLaren, Ric and maybe Torro Rosso fighting for some points. Bring it on.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 12 May 2019 - 12:28.

[CPR]

Anyone know track temps?

[Ivanhoe]

It was 38.5 an hour ago.

[CPR]

It was 38.5 an hour ago.

 

Thanks.

 

So far, a bit hotter than quali and a bit cooler than FP2...

[PayasYouRace]

See, I will be watching, to see who wins Mercedes battle. Your post is very manipulative, you are trying to paint me in the "bad" light, like I'm the bad guy because I watch races to see fight for the win, not fight for the third place. I don't care if he watches, I'm merely pointing out that watching the race not to see who wins, but who gets 3rd position is a wrong approach and does disservice to everyone who worked hard to achieve that victory. And I don't have to "crawl back" at any point, because I'm not leaving.

 

And please, refrain from those petty suggestions like "How about you leave the forum and don't watch the race". First of all, this is "Racing Comments" forum not "F1 Comments", so even if we assume that I would stop watching F1, why would I leave that forum? Second of all, this is "Racing Comments" forum, so it is natural that I can give my opinion. What I feel like is not fair and LITERALLY "turning on others", is trying to manipulate someone's post by painting them in bad light.

 

How do you go from "Who would want to watch race for 3rd place?" to "pessimistic and turning on others who want to watch"?

 

How did you go from my expression of interest in the entire field to "Who would want to watch race for 3rd place?" to "watching the race not to see who wins, but who gets 3rd position is a wrong approach and does disservice to everyone who worked hard to achieve that victory."?

[CPR]

Apparently track up to 43C. I think that's what was about it was in FP2.

[Ivanhoe]

Let’s hope Mercedes suffers from some severe blistering then

[Bleu]

What's the penalty for not going around the cone after missing turn 1? F2 are giving only 5 seconds.

 

I would think it's the same in F1 + 1 penalty point.

[Mosrite]

Another Merc 1-2. Frees up a sunny Sunday anyways.

 

Surely this is going to start killing the ratings. The die hards will still tune in but even that is dwindling. I'm a die hard and I don't even bother watching the races anymore. I come to the forums for info and developments  but nothing worth tuning in for on the races after 6 years of domination.

Another aspect is betting on F1. It is becoming extremely predictable. For instance, you can bet on Hamilton to be on the podium at around 1.1 and never lose. Also, you can bet that the winning car will be a Mercedes, at 1.1 again. Depending on how much you're staking, that .1 percent can be quite big and that is a lot of money to give away each race. So the betting companies will stop promoting their F1 markets or stop offering it all together. It is not normal for a sport to be so predictable