53 replies to this topic

[BRG]

There is a parlour game - Name Ten Famous Belgians.  

 

Nobody can of course, and in any case, most start off with Hercule Poirot who isn't even real!  Amongst the motorsport fraternity, we should do rather better.  Ickx, Boutsen, Vandoorne, Neuville, Loix and so on.  But few seem to remember the man who was arguably Belgium's finest:  Olivier Gendebien.

 

Like any good Belgian, he started in rallying, driving various makes, including Alfa and Mercedes and winning the Tulip Rally amongst others.  On the race track, he was a Ferrari driver, taking four Le Mans victories for the Scuderia, as well as three Targa Florios. three Tour de France Autos, three Sebring 12 Hours, two Reims 12 Hours and a Nurburgring 1000km which are impressive palmares by any standards.  

 

He repeatedly dipped his toes into F1 but was never able, or allowed, to undertake a full campaign for Ferrari.  But although he only made 15 F1 starts, the ability was certainly there, as he showed when he drove a BRP Cooper to 2nd place in France and 3rd place in Belgium in 1960.  What a shame he was denied the chance to demonstrate what he could really do at the 'top table'.  

 

He retired from racing after his fourth Le Mans win in 1962, and was reported as saying “I have always raced purely for the sport, for the beauty of the sport. Racing didn’t amuse so much anymore. There seemed only two choices, one to die and the other to lose. I decided on a third one, to stay alive.” 

 

He passed away in 1998 at the age of 74, having survived a brutal era when so many never made it to retirement.  Perhaps had he lost his life on the track, he might be better remembered. 

[Barry Boor]

A reasonable argument but Gendebien's sports car success came in an era where trundling around steadily at Le Mans would often given you a good result and in a works Ferrari, a win was always likely.

I think that Olivier's relatively small number of Grand Prix drives makes it very difficult to judge him against Ickx, Boutsen or even, dare I say it, Wild Willy.

[GMiranda]

I think Gendebien was one of the best endurance drivers ever. I read some articles about him, and for a gentleman driver and a late starter, he did some wonderful performances shortly after he began racing and rallying, whoch shows he ws truly talented, and earnt his seat with Ferrari  for sheer talent and effort. About his single-seater feats, I think he never dedicated too much to them, and his smooth and precise style  would always be a problem in sprint races, unless he tried a full-season. Nevertheless, he proved himself to be a points scorer and capable of fighting for top positions, usually without top drives, so I think he was a great one.

[ReWind]

Don't forget him winning the 1959 Belgian GP.
Or was it just a dream?

[Barry Boor]

Er, yes!

[Sterzo]

Of course there are ten famous Belgians; it's just that we haven't heard of them.

 

Olivier Gendebien was pretty useful in a single seater as well as in endurance racing, but there are several Belgians I would rank above him. In chronological order they would be: Camille Jenatzy, Lucien Hautvast, Jacky Ickx (easily the best), Thierry Boutsen and Stoffel Vandoorne.

 

Tempted to add Max Verstappen in there too...

Edited by Sterzo, 09 May 2019 - 21:11.

[2F-001]

As I've been very interested in both motorsport and cycling since my pre-teen years, the very notion of not being able to name ten famous Belgians has always seemed quite incomprehensible to me... and that's without the numerous track & field stars, artists and so on.

 

Many, many people know of them but, for some reason or other, are not aware of their nationality.

[GMiranda]

From Belgium, between F1 and Sport-Prototypes, I think Jacky Ickx, Thierry Boutsen, Stoffel Vandoorne, Olivier Gendebien, Bertrand Gachot, Willy Mairesse, Lucien Bianchi, Paul Frére, Marc Duez, Teddy Pilette, Eric Van de Poele

[Tim Murray]

I understand that Olivier was so modest about his racing achievements that it was only when his obituaries were published that his children found out that he had won Le Mans four times, finished in the top 3 in Grands Prix, etc.

[GMiranda]

Everyone tell me he was extremely discreet

[Henri Greuter]

Lucien and Mauro Bianchi come to mind.

[Doug Nye]

The Pilette dynasty all did reasonably well for their nation, Theodore (Sr), Andre and particularly - up to a certain level - Teddy.  And in team patronage terms the great Jacques Swaters,  Count Rudi van der Straten (VDS) and Pierre Stasse were all racing figures who commanded international respect.  

 

But of course 'being famous' can be a different concept...promoting VERY different people...  

 

Oh - and amongst women racing drivers wasn't Yvette Fontaine Belgian?  She was one of the most naturally talented female drivers I ever saw.

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 10 May 2019 - 07:30.

[Roger Clark]

I think Gendebien’s greatest race was the 1961 Targa Florio when he and Von Trips battled against Moss, at his very best, and Graham hill throughout the race, finally winning when the porsche retired on the last lap. Emphatically not trundling around!

There was an incident before the race that seems out of character for the apparently mild mannered Belgian. He was paired to drive with Phil Hill in Ferrari’s best car but Tavoni had decreed that they would transfer to one of the other cars if anything happened to theirs. Gendebien was due to start but he realised that a retirement would probably happen in the mountains, leaving him without a drive. He insisted that Hill start; he set off in such a bad mood that he crashed on the opening lap. Olivier was transferred to Von Trips’ car and won the race. Phil Hill had consolation later in the year though.

[robert dick]

Don't forget Derihon:
The famous BND steel (famous in 1914) produced by Derihon in Liège (Usines Georges Derihon, Loncin-Liège - in the years just before WW1 managed by Martin Derihon) was extensively used in ALL successful racing cars between 1909 and 1914, in particular in the 1910 Hispano and the 1911/-14 Peugeots or Delages.

Derihon factory description by Charles Faroux from page
https://gallica.bnf....59/f175.image.r
to page
https://gallica.bnf....7359/f178.image
 

[Eric Dunsdon]

May  put in a word for Johnny Claes racing driver and jazz-man, Voted driver of the year in 1955 after his win in the Rome-Liege Rally with the father of Jacky Ickx. Also drove in numerous 1950's Grands Prix in Lago-Talbot, Gordini, HWM, Connaught and Maserati  Very successful with Jaguar XK120's both C and D type. Johnny Claes was what these days might be termed a cool looking guy. Sadly suffered ill health in his later years and passed away in the late 1950's.

Edited by Eric Dunsdon, 10 May 2019 - 11:41.

[GMiranda]

If we go to Touring Cars, Belgium is the country of some of the best ever.

[Bloggsworth]

And Paul Frére and Willy Mareisse...

[djr900]

Can this include motorcycle scrambles / moto - cross riders ?

If so how about - Joel Robert , Rene Baeton, Roger Decoster, Stefan Everts, Harry Everts, Andre Malherbe, Joel Smets, Eric Geboers, Gaston Rahier, Georges Jobe.

10 world champions from 1950s onwards 

[Henri Greuter]

Can this include motorcycle scrambles / moto - cross riders ?

If so how about - Joel Robert , Rene Baeton, Roger Decoster, Stefan Everts, Harry Everts, Andre Malherbe, Joel Smets, Eric Geboers, Gaston Rahier, Georges Jobe.

10 world champions from 1950s onwards 

 

 

How about cyclists ......

 

Eddy Merckx to begin with ....

[DogEarred]

He even has a metro station in Brussels named after him!

[Michael Ferner]

And no one has even mentioned Magritte yet...

[2F-001]

Or Hergé...?

 

How about cyclists ......

 

Eddy Merckx to begin with ....

 

I was reluctant to rattle off a host of cyclists' names for fear of taking us toooo far off track --
but a couple of years back Greg van Avermaert was quite comfortably the number one ranked rider in the world. (And is in strong form again this year.)

 

For  a comparatively small nation, Belgium has a rich sporting heritage, with some fine middle-distance runners in the past, and tennis players more recently.

 

Yvette Fontaine (who I saw racing) was mentioned by Doug... she's certainly Belgian - as is Christine Beckers; both still with us, I believe.

But how do you define "famous"? I know a lot of 'self-proclaimed motorsports enthusiasts' who won't have heard of a lot of those mentioned in this thread - and very, very few of them are 'household names'. But that doesn't matter, their lives and achievements are known to, and appreciated by, those who do matter... (Us!)  :-)

Edited by 2F-001, 10 May 2019 - 19:25.

[Henk Vasmel]

Or Jacques Brel

[BRG]

Or Jacques Brel

I hadn't intended this thread to be a means to name those 'Ten Famous Belgians' !  But can I nominate George Simenon?

 

In one way, the thread has proved something - already Olivier Gendebien has been left behind, which seems to be his fate.  

[D28]

I hadn't intended this thread to be a means to name those 'Ten Famous Belgians' !  But can I nominate George Simenon?

 

In one way, the thread has proved something - already Olivier Gendebien has been left behind, which seems to be his fate.  

Not necessarily. I managed to dig out a copy of Motor Sport Jan 2004 issue in which they ranked sportscar drivers, Gendebien came in at #7, just behind the driver he is forever linked with, Phil Hill. He won all the major races including Sebring and Targa Florio 3 times, The writeup mentions "His ability to maintain a metronomic race pace at a time when cars had to be nursed was highly praised". 

[LittleChris]

May  put in a word for Johnny Claes racing driver and jazz-man, Voted driver of the year in 1955 after his win in the Rome-Liege Rally with the father of Jacky Ickx. Also drove in numerous 1950's Grands Prix in Lago-Talbot, Gordini, HWM, Connaught and Maserati  Very successful with Jaguar XK120's both C and D type. Johnny Claes was what these days might be termed a cool looking guy. Sadly suffered ill health in his later years and passed away in the late 1950's.

 

I thought about Johnny Claes too but wasn't he born in England ( don't know what race licence or passport he held ).  Back to M Gendebien, very under-rated I think as I believe did Paul Frere.  Chucking in some other Belgians, Charles de Tournaco, Michael Paquay & Plastic Bertrand

Edited by LittleChris, 10 May 2019 - 21:14.

[DogEarred]

Jacques Brel was ok.


But does anyone remember the magnificent Eddy Wally?...

[philippe7]

Lucien and Mauro Bianchi come to mind.

 

As strange as it may seem, I'm pretty sure that if Lucien was Belgian as an adult, Mauro was French ..... although of course they both originally were born Italian in Milano .

[Richard Jenkins]

Off topic, Toots Thielemans. There's a tenuous link to racing as he performed the national anthem before the Belgian Grand Prix a few years ago.. I think unless I'm dreamt it.

[Barry Boor]

"The writeup mentions "His ability to maintain a metronomic race pace at a time when cars had to be nursed was highly praised".

This is precisely what I meant in my earlier post. However, I was referring to Le Mans, rather than other races.

[cooper997]

Just adding this from the Ulster Automobile Club's June 1951 Dundrod programme description, after Eric and LittleChris mention Johnny Claes.

 

"JOHNNY CLAES of Brussels, driving a 4482cc 4 1/2 litre u/s Lago-Talbot, entered by Ecurie Belge.

Reported to be a dance band leader, but seems to spend most of his time motor racing. In 1950, eigth Albi, first Frontieries GP, fouth Roubaix, and sixth at Mons. Surprised everyone by making fastest practice lap for (Silverstone) International Trophy, 26th August, and crashed during the race, nearly hitting the BRM."

 

Stephen

[Catalina Park]

How about Gilberte Thirion? I would have to place her in my top 10 Belgians along with about 15 other drivers.

[RCH]

I note Motor Sport ranks Olivier Gendebien as the 5th. greatest "Hero of Le Mans" in the latest issue. Not exactly in the top rank but as a fan of Le Mans in the early '60's can I add Jean Blaton aka "Beurlys" and Leon Dernier aka "Elde"?

[Eric Dunsdon]

Like  2F-001 I could rattle off  Belgian riders names for an hour or so but they probably wouldn't mean too much here despite being legends in Belgium. Flanders in particular. A visit to the 'Tour Of Flanders' one day classic in April used to be a highlight of my year. Funnily enough Belgians that I spoke to only seemed to have heard of former 'Flanders' winner Tommy Simpson and Princess Diana when it came to famous British people.

[Myhinpaa]

I nominate Patrick Snijers, Marc Duez is already mentioned.

 

His performance on the '88 Manx was the most impressive since Tony Pond's in '81.

 

https://youtu.be/9UBrjUqUol0

[Doug Nye]

  Good grief!

[SamoanAttorney]

May I offer to the list Pierre Dieudonné?  A journalist who won the Spa 24 Hours on three occasions and was ETCC champion in 1976. Pierre was a class winner at Le Mans four times amongst many other successes. He is also a good egg and always a pleasure to share time with.

[john winfield]

Chocolates. Belgium makes some lovely chocolates. And this Easter, in England, I noticed some were made by the Chocolaterie Ickx. Any connection with Jacky, arguably Belgium's finest driver?

[BRG]

Chocolates. Belgium makes some lovely chocolates. And this Easter, in England, I noticed some were made by the Chocolaterie Ickx. Any connection with Jacky, arguably Belgium's finest driver?

From their website:- 

The SEM Foundation was founded in 2016 by the Huurman family, owner of BeNe Holding B.V.
BeNe Holding B.V. consists of several subsidiaries named Ickx, Dragee, Rosenberg and Pralibel, all operating in the chocolate industry. With this foundation, the Huurman family wants to improve the livelihoods of cocoa farmers and their communities. 

 

Looks like they just used the Ickx name (perhaps with permission?).

[Cavalier53]

Chocolaterie Ickx is in the Antwerp region (Flemish speaking), whereas Jacky Ickx was French speaking, and the Chocolaterie is owned and managed since quite some time by Dutch businessmen. The name Ickx does not turn up as member of their staff on LinkedIn either.
This does not make the connection likely, however the firm was apparently established in 1972. So the brand may have been named after Jacky (with or without his knowledge), or established by a distant relative living in the Flemish part of Belgium.
 
Accoding to the site Forebears, it is: the 719,578th Most Common Surname in the World
Approximately 402 people bear this surname
Most prevalent in: Belgium

 

So is it really mere coincidence?

[d j fox]

Following GMirandas suggestion:- Jean Xchenceval, Alain Peltier, Eddy Joosen, René Tricot and , Bernard De Dryver etc were all pretty handy around Spa and other places 

[kayemod]

I nominate Patrick Snijers, Marc Duez is already mentioned.

 

His performance on the '88 Manx was the most impressive since Tony Pond's in '81.

 

https://youtu.be/9UBrjUqUol0

 

 

I think that calling Patrick Snijers Belgium's Greatest is going a bit too far, but I absolutely love that 1988 Manx Rally video. Rallying generally doesn't do anything at all for me, but Patrick's performance as shown in that YouTube video is simply great. Over the years I've watched and re-watched it probably dozens of times, and just the sound his BMW makes is terrific. The E30 M3 is one of my favourite ever cars, the only BMW I've ever liked. I've never owned one though I've come close more than once, but a friend owned a Ravaglia Edition in the late 1990s, and he let me drive it a few times, wow! Just like that video, the memory has stayed with me.

 

My vote goes to Jacky Ickx by the way, can't see that anyone else comes close.

[Doug Nye]

Has anyone yet cited some of the enthusiastic Belgian pioneers?  

 

Probably the most influential early driver/organising figure of them all, the Chevalier Rene de Knyff, was Belgian born. Baron Pierre de Crawhez master-minded the real birth of significant multi-lap circuit racing when he launched the first Circuit des Ardennes, based upon Bastogne, in 1902.

 

His brother, Jean Marie de Crawhez also drove in early races while brother Joseph dabbled too.  

 

Baron Pierre de Caters was quite a pioneering star in both cars and aeroplanes...

 

DCN

[BRG]

I think that calling Patrick Snijers Belgium's Greatest is going a bit too far, but I absolutely love that 1988 Manx Rally video.

Snijers is one of a number of very good Belgian rally drivers who nevertheless were not quite top-notch in global terms.  Others have included Gilbert Staepelaere (Ford works driver), Guy Cousol (Opel works driver), Freddie Loix (Mitsubishi works driver) Marc Duez & Gregoire de Mevius who flirted with success at the highest levels but didn't quite make it.  All incredibly competitive at home, and on the occasion abroad as Snijers showed on the Manx.  Neuville looks to be the one to overturn this, but is making heavy weather of it.  With Belgium being perhaps the most rally-mad country on earth (equal to Finland), it is strange that they haven't produced that break-through driver at WRC level.

[Charlieman]

Slightly off topic, but perhaps it is worth asking here. Who was Vicomtesse de Walckiers who entered a few cars in international events (mostly) for Belgians but also for man of mystery Robert O'Brien? Judging by the one photograph I have seen she would have been 35 to 40 years of age in 1953, so born about the time of WWI. 

 

A children's charity lists a Marie Louise de Walckiers of Mons as a patron and founder. She seems to have been the right age. See http://www.amade.be/FR/historique.html

[Geoff E]

Slightly off topic, but perhaps it is worth asking here. Who was Vicomtesse de Walckiers who entered a few cars in international events (mostly) for Belgians but also for man of mystery Robert O'Brien? Judging by the one photograph I have seen she would have been 35 to 40 years of age in 1953, so born about the time of WWI. 

 

A children's charity lists a Marie Louise de Walckiers of Mons as a patron and founder. She seems to have been the right age. See http://www.amade.be/FR/historique.html

 

Wiki gives her dates as 1906-83 https://nl.wikipedia...ers_(1861-1918)

[AntoineP]

Slightly off topic, but perhaps it is worth asking here. Who was Vicomtesse de Walckiers who entered a few cars in international events (mostly) for Belgians but also for man of mystery Robert O'Brien? Judging by the one photograph I have seen she would have been 35 to 40 years of age in 1953, so born about the time of WWI. 

 

A children's charity lists a Marie Louise de Walckiers of Mons as a patron and founder. She seems to have been the right age. See http://www.amade.be/FR/historique.html

 

I have wondered about her too when coming across her name. I will ask elderly familly members if they remember her.

[SamoanAttorney]

I would like to add three other pioneers to this impressive list. Jules de Thier was the founder of the Francorchamps circuit, we should all be eternally grateful for that. He was helped in this enterprise by two friends, Henri Langlois van Ophem and Raymond de Tornaco. This initiative gave rise to the Spa 24 Hours...........

 

In more modern times the Spa 24 Hours was arguably saved at the turn of the century from irrelevance and even possible extinction by Jean François Chaumont. Supported by Paul Frère he convinced the RACB to follow the path of GT racing to replace the worn out national touring car formula. Stéphane Ratel and SRO have subsequently revived the Spa 24 to its former glory, 60+ GTs will compete in the race at the end of July, an event not to be missed.  

[Peter Morley]

Has anyone yet cited some of the enthusiastic Belgian pioneers?  

 

Probably the most influential early driver/organising figure of them all, the Chevalier Rene de Knyff, was Belgian born. Baron Pierre de Crawhez master-minded the real birth of significant multi-lap circuit racing when he launched the first Circuit des Ardennes, based upon Bastogne, in 1902.

 

His brother, Jean Marie de Crawhez also drove in early races while brother Joseph dabbled too.  

 

Baron Pierre de Caters was quite a pioneering star in both cars and aeroplanes...

 

DCN

 

And Camille Jenatzy but I guess record breaking isn't racing?

[AntoineP]

I had dinner last week with Claude Bourgoignie and my father, they are mates since school. Don't know if he's one of the finests but he had interesting stories, especially about his personal Beetle modified by Kremer.