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The Cardinal Sin


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#1 rallen

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 10:33

Watching F1 as a kid Murray would often talk about the Cardinal Sin – team mates crashing into each other or taking out the teams other car and how it was the worst thing that could happen (naturally this fascinated me even though I didn't know what Cardinal meant...)

 

I imagine there would be less of this in the sport than other incidents (for obvious reasons) I was wondering – when it did occur what were the consequences in the team and indeed between individuals? Did drivers lose their seat, damage their prospects or become enemies or was it patched up as just ‘motor racing’? (I don’t want to talk about Senna-Prost – that has been done to death and I have no interest in it)

 

To illustrate my question I believe there were two incidents in 1993

 

The Saubers of Lehto and Wendlinger collided at Monaco – which I believe caused serious problems for Lehto in the team and seriously damaged his relationship with them.

 

Zanardi and Herbert also hit each other but they both got on so well and there was no internal issues at Lotus over it.

 

So were there many ‘notable’ instances and how did the aftermath play out?


Edited by rallen, 10 May 2019 - 10:33.


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#2 Allan Lupton

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 12:01

Someone has to, so I'll ask what the 30th Roman Catholic Archbishop of Manila has to do with motor racing? :cat:



#3 Ray Bell

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 13:40

Yes, that is a classic name for him to have, isn't it?

 

However, we're risking taking the thread off-topic here...



#4 Charlieman

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 14:21

1977 World Sports Car Championship -- didn't the Alfa Romeos have a coming together at the start of one race? It didn't stop them from taking a clean sweep that season.



#5 uechtel

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 15:03

Seems incidents like this rarely happened in F1 races before the 1980ies. The first occasion that comes into my mind is Monaco 1981, when both Tyrrells were eliminated after the start in a crash at Ste Devote. But this will hardly count as Daly and Jarier weren´t really close to each other, Daly "jumping" over another car to land on his team-mate two cars ahead of him.

 

So the first direct confrontation I can think of was Zeltweg 1982, when again right at the start de Cesaris first drove off his teammate Giacomelli to the left and then eliminated another car to the right.

 

Then the first team internal confrontations outside the heat of the start seem in fact been introduced by Senna and Prost. First Senna nearly pushing Prost into the wall at Estoril 1988 and then the famous culmination at Suzuka in 1989.

 

Immediately before that in the same season there was also the probably unique situation at Phoenix when de Cesaris in the Dallara eliminated his team colleague Alex Caffi from an almost secure podium finish while being lapped by him!

 

Only after that things seem to have got really going. Here a probably still quite incomplete list of further incidents:

 

Lehto - Wendlinger, Sauber, Monaco 1993

C. Fittipaldi - Martini, Minardi, Italy 1993

Berger - Alesi, Ferrari, Monaco 1995 (with Coulthard)

Häkkinen - Coulthard, McLaren, Portugal 1996

R. Schumacher - Fisichella, Jordan, Argentina 1997

R. Schumacher - Fisichella, Jordan, "Luxembourg" 1997

Häkkinen - Coulthard, McLaren, Austria 1999

Zonta - J. Villeneuve, BAR, Germany 2000

Alesi - Heidfeld, Prost, Austria 2000

Montoya - R. Schumacher, Williams, USA 2002

Webber - N. Rosberg, Williams, Brazil, 2006

Vettel - Webber, red Vull, Turkey 2010

N. Rosberg - Hamilton, Mercedes, Belgium 2014

Vettel - Räikkönen, Ferrari, China 2016

N. Rosberg - Hamilton, Mercedes, Spain 2016

Perez - Ocon, Force India, Azerbaidjan 2017

Perez - Ocon, Force India, Belgium 2017

Vettel - Räikkönen, Ferrari, Singapore 2017 (+ Verstappen)

M. Verstappen - Ricciardo, Red Bull, Azerbaidjan, 2018

Grosjean - K. Magnusen, Haas, Great Britain 2018

Perez - Ocon, Force India, Singapore 2018

 

to be completed...



#6 Michael Ferner

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 16:04

I was immediately thinking of two inter-Lotus incidents: Ickx and Peterson at the start of Kyalami, 1974 was it? And Peterson with Andretti at Interlagos in '76. Just these from the top of my head.

#7 Paul Parker

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 16:07

Seems incidents like this rarely happened in F1 races before the 1980ies. The first occasion that comes into my mind is Monaco 1981, when both Tyrrells were eliminated after the start in a crash at Ste Devote. But this will hardly count as Daly and Jarier weren´t really close to each other, Daly "jumping" over another car to land on his team-mate two cars ahead of him.

 

So the first direct confrontation I can think of was Zeltweg 1982, when again right at the start de Cesaris first drove off his teammate Giacomelli to the left and then eliminated another car to the right.

 

Then the first team internal confrontations outside the heat of the start seem in fact been introduced by Senna and Prost. First Senna nearly pushing Prost into the wall at Estoril 1988 and then the famous culmination at Suzuka in 1989.

 

Immediately before that in the same season there was also the probably unique situation at Phoenix when de Cesaris in the Dallara eliminated his team colleague Alex Caffi from an almost secure podium finish while being lapped by him!

 

Only after that things seem to have got really going. Here a probably still quite incomplete list of further incidents:

 

Lehto - Wendlinger, Sauber, Monaco 1993

C. Fittipaldi - Martini, Minardi, Italy 1993

Berger - Alesi, Ferrari, Monaco 1995 (with Coulthard)

Häkkinen - Coulthard, McLaren, Portugal 1996

R. Schumacher - Fisichella, Jordan, Argentina 1997

R. Schumacher - Fisichella, Jordan, "Luxembourg" 1997

Häkkinen - Coulthard, McLaren, Austria 1999

Zonta - J. Villeneuve, BAR, Germany 2000

Alesi - Heidfeld, Prost, Austria 2000

Montoya - R. Schumacher, Williams, USA 2002

Webber - N. Rosberg, Williams, Brazil, 2006

Vettel - Webber, red Vull, Turkey 2010

N. Rosberg - Hamilton, Mercedes, Belgium 2014

Vettel - Räikkönen, Ferrari, China 2016

N. Rosberg - Hamilton, Mercedes, Spain 2016

Perez - Ocon, Force India, Azerbaidjan 2017

Perez - Ocon, Force India, Belgium 2017

Vettel - Räikkönen, Ferrari, Singapore 2017 (+ Verstappen)

M. Verstappen - Ricciardo, Red Bull, Azerbaidjan, 2018

Grosjean - K. Magnusen, Haas, Great Britain 2018

Perez - Ocon, Force India, Singapore 2018

 

to be completed...

 

No mention of M. Schumacher!



#8 Tim Murray

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 16:20

The multi-car pile-up at the first start of the 1976 British GP was triggered by Lauda and Regazzoni tangling as they went into Paddock.

#9 Collombin

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 16:21

The von Trips Brooks collision at Sebring didn't do much for Tony's world championship hopes.