136 replies to this topic

[Ben1445]

It is often said around here that interest in motorsport is generally just decreasing.

 

I feel that, whilst it is something that is said a lot, the implications for the sport are often not discussed beyond a tired resignation to doom and gloom. I prefer not to think that way myself and so these are the questions I ask myself when faced with this problem: 

 

What has changed in society since motor racing began in order to make this a widely accepted situation? What made it so big to begin with? 

 

What other sports have gone in and out of fashion over the years? Have any 'old' sports had a resurgence that could inspire hope? 

 

Especially in light of the previous two questions, what can/should motorsport do in order to a) adapt itself to modern tastes and/or b) map out a path that would lead to a renaissance of viewership? 

 

What are the consequences of making no changes? Are they acceptable when compared  to changes that could be made? 

[Spillage]

It's absence from free to air TV is doing enormous damage. Nobody accidentally stumbles across a sport that's tucked away on a bespoke channel for which they have to pay. They could when F1 was on the BBC, ITV or Channel 4.

[Peat]

Lots of factors at play. None of which I profess to be an expert on. 

More competition with things you can do with your spare time. Back in the day, you could put on an egg and spoon race and draw a decent crowd...

Environmentally, car racing is seen as very wasteful by the masses. 

Racing is generally pretty boring if you are wanting instant thrills. 

[Knowlesy]

It's absence from free to air TV is doing enormous damage. Nobody accidentally stumbles across a sport that's tucked away on a bespoke channel for which they have to pay. They could when F1 was on the BBC, ITV or Channel 4.

I don't think people stumble across stuff on TV much nowadays anyways, with Netflix and Amazon Prime offering so much more choice. That and the fact there are a million other things you can do with your time.

But yes, it would be nice to at least have the option to see it FTA. It wouldn't harm the sport.

[Marklar]

Besides what was already mentioned the car - at least in Germany - has also become in general a far less important commodity for young people than it used to be the case (probably mostly because it's not as much needed these days, especially in cities). In the past many people were in some ways emotionally attached to their vehicle (and some older people still are), which certainly also translated to them being more interested in motor racing.

[Ben1445]

Besides what was already mentioned the car - at least in Germany - has also become in general a far less important commodity for young people than it used to be the case (probably mostly because it's not as much needed these days, especially in cities). In the past many people were in some ways emotionally attached to their vehicle (and some older people still are), which certainly also translated to them being more interested in motor racing.

I agree, this is definitely something that is happening. 

 

Considering how fundamental a shift that is, in what ways can motorsport respond?

[LuckyStrike1]

The biggest sponsors of motorsport are car manufacturers. Although there are other, car manufacturers have continued to hold motorsport under its arms and supplied the bulk of the cash needed for motorsport. 

Today how you market and sell cars differs and continues to change from what it used to be. Cars for a lot of people are less of an interest, more of a domestic appliance you need to put your life together - much like a dishwasher or a refrigerator. 

It is no longer an obvious choice for young people to take a drivers license and own a car. That tends to happen later in life when family life and all things connected with that kicks in. Then it becomes a necessity, much like any domestic appliance. That changes how we consume cars and thus changes how car manufacturers sell ars. Who wins with what in which motorsport category suddenly becomes totally uninteresting. 

We also see a decline across the board in viewing figures but also in demographics. For each year the motorsport audience becomes a couple of years older. No new fans are coming into the sport and those of us staying are just becoming older and we are gradually leaving too, dreaming of how much better it used to be as we do when we are old. 

Motorsport has failed to adress these changes. They fail to attract new groups of companies that can finance this venture and they also fail to adjust their costs to this new reality. For companies the possibilities for marketing are much more than they used to be and you can market your products much more cost efficient today than 20 years ago. Motorsport has suddenly become a very expensive marketing tool that gives much less in return and on top of that being involved in motorsport is neither trendy nor relevant. 

That is a dilemma for teams in motorsport. Put simply, their sponsors don't care that it costs 250,000 EUR for a winning car/driver/team combination in a national touringcar championship. They just see what return they can get for an invested marketing Eur and the answer is not good for motorsport. 

F1 is in its own little bubble with a huge cash need and fewer and fewer parties interested to pay for that circus. Car manufacturers get better return on their marketing spend almost anywhere else but in motorsport. 

And that is a problem motorsport is facing. 

Motorsport is not even a dream for young people to be involved with anymore. The sheer cost of competing in go-karts are ridiculous and with fewer young people even interested in cars this will contribute to marginalise motorsport even further. 

Put simply - motorsport is a dinosaur with a very severe cough that could reveal something much worse. 

This post is perhaps not that well put together but these are my thoughts. I think we are now seeing the time when motorsport is declining and the next step will be the absolute marginalisation of motorsport as a sporting event on a national and international level. 

Motorsport is dying. 

[Ben1445]

Have any other sports suffered a long term decline over the last century?

[vee10]

Agree with the reasons mentioned, paywall TV, environment, young people not being attached to motor vehicles, attention span and cost of attending races. 

 

I don't really see a way out from the current series that are running. Young people just don't seem that bothered, I have been a F1 and motorsport fan ever since I watched Senna in his Lotus Renault on the BBC but I am really struggling with the environmental waste that goes along with it all, the planet is chocking and motorsport spends billions and billions going around in circles going nowhere while causing unnecessary environmental damage for no good reason.

 

It's something that is really bothering me more and more.

[PayasYouRace]

Well there's the doom and gloom.

 

I don't see motorsport as dying, just becoming a bit more niche. There's the obvious parallel to horse racing. Horse ownership hasn't been a necessity in everyday life for decades, yet the equestrian sports are healthy and show no signs of dying.

 

I think motorsport will settle in a similar way. People will still have need for personal transport on the future, so people will still build the things. The mega bucks high level stuff will suffer the most, but the local, club and national level stuff will probably continue along as it does today.

 

Young people are still interested. There were plenty of children and teenagers at Thruxton yesterday, but I bet a lot of their interest came as a local day out rather than season long followers, or for the younger ones because of their parents.

 

The extremely healthy grids of 50-60 year old minis proved that cheap old cars will still be an option for a lot of fun racing.

[LuckyStrike1]

Have any other sports suffered a long term decline over the last century?

 

Cross country skiing is in a decline now. But like most other sports they can easily adjust their capital need to the new reality. Just pay the athletes less. 

Motorsport is in a much more severe situation because it's not easy to just make motorsport cheaper and still maintain it as a high level sport. I've seen it in Sweden where they've tried to make national touring car racing cheaper but despite all regulation changes a winning budget has still been on about the same level - 250,000 EUR or 2,5 MSEK to win, and it's become almost impossible to raise those money and the sport is almost dead now. It started when the car importers just stop financing the teams because there were better ways to spend marketing budgets to sell cars than with motorsport, and there were no one else to pick up the tab. 

[Ben1445]

Another question worth asking is to what extent would a decline in top level budgets and professionalism actually lead a renaissance in grassroots participation? 

[Bloggsworth]

Have any other sports suffered a long term decline over the last century?

 

Cricket - No free to air, school budgets cut to the bone, selling off of playing fields, the rise of sedentary games players, and like that and like that...

 

I did a year of FF in 1971 for about £1000, including buying a Mk11 Merlyn - That's about 4 entry fees nowadays.

[PayasYouRace]

Cricket - No free to air, school budgets cut to the bone, selling off of playing fields, the rise of sedentary games players, and like that and like that...

 

I did a year of FF in 1971 for about £1000, including buying a Mk11 Merlyn - That's about 4 entry fees nowadays.

 

Is that inflation adjusted? £1000 in 1971 is just shy of £14,000 today.

[LuckyStrike1]

Well there's the doom and gloom.

 

I don't see motorsport as dying, just becoming a bit more niche. There's the obvious parallel to horse racing. Horse ownership hasn't been a necessity in everyday life for decades, yet the equestrian sports are healthy and show no signs of dying.

 

I think motorsport will settle in a similar way. People will still have need for personal transport on the future, so people will still build the things. The mega bucks high level stuff will suffer the most, but the local, club and national level stuff will probably continue along as it does today.

 

Young people are still interested. There were plenty of children and teenagers at Thruxton yesterday, but I bet a lot of their interest came as a local day out rather than season long followers, or for the younger ones because of their parents.

 

The extremely healthy grids of 50-60 year old minis proved that cheap old cars will still be an option for a lot of fun racing.

 

 

Well it's only doom and gloom if that is your perspective. 

I've been a huge F1 and motorsport fan since the early 80's and I've even made all of and part of my living from motorsport from time to time including currently. But even though I have this viewpoint that motorsport really is dying as a sporting event providing entertainment and will no longer be a relevant sport I don't see that as doom and gloom. That is just development and there are many other things to spend your time with, even for an older motorsport fan as motorsport is far from being that important in life anyway. There are other past times and hobbies and even jobs. So it moves on. 

If motorsport is to change this negative trend they need to adress their cash need and they need to be relevant as entertainment again. I'm not sure that is possible but that is what they need to achieve - put simply, it needs to be much much cheaper and it needs to add a benefit that makes companies needing to market and sell their products and build their brands willing to invest in motorsport as a platform for their marketing. 

The sport of cycling BTW is facing a similar dilemma. Their biggest sponsors are the bike manufacturers and the willingness for them to sponsor the sport is also declining. But cycling can adjust their costs much easier than motorsport as their biggest capital spends are on the athletes (and drugs ...???? ) as well as travel expenses and staff.  

[Vielleicht]

I'm going to say something probably quite unpopular now:

 

I think something like we've seen with Formula E is one of motorsport's bigger chances to stay relevant.

 

Why? People (the youth especially) are less interested in cars and car ownership, so are less interested in motorpsort - that figures. It's not in line with modern values and isn't trendy to be involved with.

 

So what are they interetsed in? Laugh all you like but environemntlism is a big concern for the youth as a whole. It is trendy to act and/or be seen as green. We can throw around terms like 'hypocrites' and 'virtue signalling' all day long but if that were to lead to a shot in the arm for youth interest in motorsport, no longer seeing it sport as environmentally wasteful and for a different generation but as something in lines with their values, modern and rebellious... would that be a terrible thing?

 

I'm not saying this is the solution to everything, but it is an opportunity that can be expoloited for the good of the sport if done right.

[Peat]

I don't see that it would affect grass-roots participation tbh.

 

The costs associated with club racing is death by a thousand paper cuts.

You can get a half decent FF1600 for £8-12k. Hmm, ok, not bad, I could just about afford that.
Oh, but then you need all the up to date safety gear. Ok, £1k
And you'll need a licence. £500. 
And a trailer to get the car to the track.
And a towing license. 
And a vehicle capable of towing it. 
Ok, remortgaged, got that, lets race. 
£200 entry fee. Jesus, really? 
There are only 5 other cars and why is my car so slow compared to everyone elses? 
Throw new tyres and other bits at it. 
Still slow. Oh, the others are cheating. 
There must be another championship I can run in?
"Certainly sir, here are our series regulations. We run a different spec of tyre and the type of exhaust you have is not eligible either."

OH FORGET IT!

 

Edited by Peat, 20 May 2019 - 09:13.

[DS27]

 

I did a year of FF in 1971 for about £1000, including buying a Mk11 Merlyn - That's about 4 entry fees nowadays.

 

 

I think you underestimate how much entry's have gone up! I haven't entered for a few years but was paying around £350 or more per meeting, just for the race entry. At Silverstone GP circuit, costs were even higher; over £400.

 

Just looked and for a proper grass roots championship, the Mazda MX5's, entry fee's are now £425! Add onto this that most drivers now test before each race, so add on another £300+ just for that (doesn't include running costs). The cross-section of people involved in club racing has changed radically over the last few decades. 40K+ motorhomes and in-car telemetry were becoming the norm, even at club level. There is also the ARDS test, championship registration fee's, etc. Averaged out, each round was costing me around £1,200 and that was without damage.

 

Also, now even club racers need devices such as HANS and HANS compatible helmets, you are likely to be spending nearer 2K on safety gear than 1K unless you can manage to get big discounts or want low-end gear. And don't forget certain things like your helmet have a usable life, and had to be replaced, periodically, regardless of damage.

 

Most ridiculous thing we had was in Modified Road Saloons in the mid-90's where we brought new Uniroyal control tyes with 7mm of tread and then had to take them to a tyre buffer and pay to get them shaved to 3mm on what was effectively a giant lathe. This meant your tyres only lasted a couple of races, but if you wanted to run at the front, you had no choice, you had to do it. Fun days.

Edited by DS27, 20 May 2019 - 09:43.

[Ben1445]

I'm going to say something probably quite unpopular now:

 

I think something like we've seen with Formula E is one of motorsport's bigger chances to stay relevant.

I wondered how long that would take 

 

I do agree though. It's an opportunity. 

[Nonesuch]

Peter McKay's 2017 article for WhichCar on this topic made a few interesting points: https://www.whichcar...sport-in-droves

[PayasYouRace]

Well it's only doom and gloom if that is your perspective. 

I've been a huge F1 and motorsport fan since the early 80's and I've even made all of and part of my living from motorsport from time to time including currently. But even though I have this viewpoint that motorsport really is dying as a sporting event providing entertainment and will no longer be a relevant sport I don't see that as doom and gloom. That is just development and there are many other things to spend your time with, even for an older motorsport fan as motorsport is far from being that important in life anyway. There are other past times and hobbies and even jobs. So it moves on. 

If motorsport is to change this negative trend they need to adress their cash need and they need to be relevant as entertainment again. I'm not sure that is possible but that is what they need to achieve - put simply, it needs to be much much cheaper and it needs to add a benefit that makes companies needing to market and sell their products and build their brands willing to invest in motorsport as a platform for their marketing. 

The sport of cycling BTW is facing a similar dilemma. Their biggest sponsors are the bike manufacturers and the willingness for them to sponsor the sport is also declining. But cycling can adjust their costs much easier than motorsport as their biggest capital spends are on the athletes (and drugs ...???? ) as well as travel expenses and staff.  

 

Perhaps its the use of the word dying, which implies that it will be dead at some point (in a reasonable timeframe). That's a strong term, saying that there will be no motorsport at all at one point. When you consider that there are various ancient and less relevant sports that exist today, I think it's a big leap to claim motorsport is dying.

 

Yeah it might be in decline, but what you describe is leading towards a crash of top level competition, which will probably be replaced by more affordable options as the sport adapts to the level of interest in them.

[balage06]

I'm going to say something probably quite unpopular now:

 

I think something like we've seen with Formula E is one of motorsport's bigger chances to stay relevant.

 

Why? People (the youth especially) are less interested in cars and car ownership, so are less interested in motorpsort - that figures. It's not in line with modern values and isn't trendy to be involved with.

 

So what are they interetsed in? Laugh all you like but environemntlism is a big concern for the youth as a whole. It is trendy to act and/or be seen as green. We can throw around terms like 'hypocrites' and 'virtue signalling' all day long but if that were to lead to a shot in the arm for youth interest in motorsport, no longer seeing it sport as environmentally wasteful and for a different generation but as something in lines with their values, modern and rebellious... would that be a terrible thing?

 

I'm not saying this is the solution to everything, but it is an opportunity that can be expoloited for the good of the sport if done right.

 

I kinda agree, but this is why I'll stop following motorsport altogether as soon as Formula E becomes the standard. It's way too artificial and all about marketing, political agenda and trying to be trendy/relevant, but on the racing side, it offers nothing but cheap entertainment, almost like the racing version of the Marvel movies.

[Vielleicht]

I do agree though. It's an opportunity.

What if someone strated a FF level, fully electric arrive and drive grass-roots series? Fixed cost of participation, rotate cars around like W-Series does. Use nice countryside circuits and pitch it to the environentally concious, let them glamp in the infield for all I care. Make it a rebellious, in-tune-with nature reclaiming of motorsport for a new generation. Of course it's really not all that different or innovative apart from it's electric and the way it is presented but who cares if it were to work and boost the coffers of the smaller club circuts?

 

Would need a good marketer. But I don't think it's a ridiculous proposition.

[sopa]

Cross country skiing is in a decline now. But like most other sports they can easily adjust their capital need to the new reality. Just pay the athletes less. 

 

 

If we are looking at those parallels, isn't skiing in decline due to climate change? The ski seasons are getting shorter and more hectic, depending on the region of course. So people will look for different activities to spend their time on, and also in terms of professional sports talents are looking for more sustainable options for a career.

 

In some ways it is argued climate change is affecting motorsports too, or at least their popularity or image.

 

Of course the other question was that how can motorsport become more popular or improve on.

 

So which sports have become more popular in the last decades in the changing world? I'd imagine some X-kind of sports, which offer quick action. Could that be? I don't follow many things, but the impression I get is that X-sports are getting more and more involved in olympic programmes.

 

And of course, what else is showing the rate of improvement? E-sports.    Not sure I would call it a sport though, but... it is what it is, the modern world. 

[Vielleicht]

I kinda agree, but this is why I'll stop following motorsport altogether as soon as Formula E becomes the standard. It's way too artificial and all about marketing, political agenda and trying to be trendy/relevant, but on the racing side, it offers nothing but cheap entertainment, almost like the racing version of the Marvel movies.

Was motorsport's big money rise much different? It was about marketing for those in the oil and automotive industries, to make the motor car exciting and cool so they would buy their products. 'Win on Sunday sell on Monday'. Riding off the wave of the car being the trendy thing, the car you own becoming a measure of your success, the key to an expansion of personal freedom. Egging that on for financial gain. Motorsport has played to that massivly over the last century or so. If modern trends are different, it can either do the same again or accept its time is up and ride out the decline into whatever it will be afterwards.

Edited by Vielleicht, 20 May 2019 - 09:41.

[sopa]

The sport of cycling BTW is facing a similar dilemma. Their biggest sponsors are the bike manufacturers and the willingness for them to sponsor the sport is also declining. But cycling can adjust their costs much easier than motorsport as their biggest capital spends are on the athletes (and drugs ...???? ) as well as travel expenses and staff.  

 

If the popularity of cycling is in decline, is that due to doping issues? I mean everyone knows everyone is doped there these days. Ok, that's for another topic.

 

It looks like if a sport has a negative image, it gets hurt. Motorsports has a negative image, and cycling as well.

 

Unlike motorsports cycling isn't doing any harm on the environment though, and is good for health too. So it should have some positive potential to cling onto.

Edited by sopa, 20 May 2019 - 09:41.

[TomNokoe]

I understand, but do not really agree with, the notion that cars are no longer commodities and that young people don't have a relationship with them. Who cares? Some leap from road car to sports car...

F1, in particular, is losing its appeal as a sport. Sport is what drives people. Being able to understand and relate to those enormous challenges. F1 is way too complicated and not competitive enough for any "casual sporting fan" to get involved.

I like to consider myself a "sporting fan", and I am happy to sit through a variety of sports and understand their relative challenges and achievements. Most casual fans understand why a five-set tennis match, a hole-in-one, etc. are impressive.

Edited by TomNokoe, 20 May 2019 - 09:51.

[Ben1445]

I do think there's a good case for embracing environmentalism in racing. One of the draws of motorsport in the pre and post war decades was that it was new and therefore exciting. I think EV/zero emissions racing can recoup some of that driving force today,_{though perhaps not for those wedded to the ICE.} 

[FirstnameLastname]

Back when I was a kid, I couldn’t wait for my 17th birthday, because that meant I could start my driving lessons and eventually get my own car.

I passed my test 3 months after my 17th birthday and bought a car immediately. I felt so proud and free from the shackles of my home town. Happy days.

I know many many folk in their 20’s now who have no interest in learning to drive/having a car. And the way the world is going now, the car is seen as a dirty evil planet killer.

The yoof of today don’t seem interested in cars anymore; and as more road cars turn electric the F1 offering seems like something from a bygone era. If they opened up the rules and let the cars become the futuristic rocketships they are capable of being, it could become exciting once again perhaps. The cars are being held back in the interests of safety/costs. Hamilton saying the other day that they are a piece of piss to drive these days. What’s the draw?! Where’s the thrill?!

[Fatgadget]

^^ This.

 

Another thing,'Ordinary blokes' the likes of Ron Dennis, Colin Chapman ,Frank Williams  and Bernie Ecclestone who showed it possible to build and race their own cars where role models of sorts.Now F1 is so distant from the man in the street.   Ironically, it were those very guys that made it so when they professionalised F1 !

[Risil]

To my eyes, the barrier for entry into car racing is too high, and there's not enough of a 'ladder' where you look at a racing car on TV and think "I could do that". Top-level racing is a bit more NASA (the space programme, not the American club racers) than garagistes in the modern day, which is very exciting but also makes me feel that there's no way in hell that someone like me should be part of it. At some point, if few are taking part and a sport is just entertainment and not part of people's real lives, it will lose its sticking power with the public.

 

I'm not sure you hear bike people complain about a broad fall in audiences and participation in the same way that car guys do. Would be interested to know if they're experiencing a similar decline. Certainly people are buying fewer sports bikes than they were 15 years ago, but grids at national level on the whole look healthy and races well-attended.

[JHSingo]

I don't buy into all this negativity about motorsport "dying", I think it is overstated. I think it would be more accurate to say it is "changing".

 

If motorsport is dying, then I've certainly seen no evidence of it. I can speak only from a British perspective, but the BTCC always attracts healthy crowds, with lots of young families present. And the British Grand Prix, despite how ridiculously expensive tickets are these days and (and how poor value an experience it is compared to other events imo) continues to be very well supported too. That's before you start to consider events like the Goodwood FoS/Revival or Isle of Man TT, which attract many thousands of people year-after-year.

 

Yes, it's true that F1 has seen a decline in viewing figures over recent years, but what sports haven't? Part of it is down to people losing interest, but I suspect there's also a significant part that is due to the changing way people are choosing to follow sport. Not necessarily subscribing to watch on TV anymore, but streaming, or watching highlights, or whatever. As I say, there are other sports that have seen a decline too - but motorsport, weirdly, is the one that people tend to be most negative about. You never hear about cricket or golf or whatever "dying", despite sports like that having just as much as a challenge (arguably more so) in getting more young people interested.

 

Certain series have challenges they urgently need to address - F1 needs to find a way to make the competitive spread much smaller, WEC needs to find a credible replacement for LMP1s etc, but there are plenty of series that are also in very good health, or on the upswing - such as IndyCar, IMSA, MotoGP and (as much as I'm not really a fan) Formula E. I also think there will always be an appeal in seeing people race cars - and I think motorsport has a great tool at its disposal to get more people interested, through eSports. Motorsport eSports has something that very few other rivals can offer - a sense of realism that is only going to increase as technology progresses. Motorsport participation has always been quite closed off to the majority due to the sheer expense, element of danger etc, but eSports could (and I believe, probably already is) start attracting more people to the sport that might not be traditional dyed-in-the-wool racing fans.

 

The one area that is of slight concern (at least to me) is how fans of established series will react when they start becoming electric series. We've seen series that have been set up to be electric series from the start have attracted their own fan base, but what happens if F1 ever became an electric championship? We saw the reaction the move to V6T got, and I could imagine something far worse with a sizeable amount of traditional fans turning their backs on the sport. But then, who knows? Maybe a new generation of fans will replace them.

 

It'll likely never be as popular as other more mainstream sports, but I can't see a point where top line motorsport will cease to exist. It's existed this long and seen many sizeable changes over the past 50+ years, and yet people still continue to watch or participate in their thousands.

Edited by JHSingo, 20 May 2019 - 11:30.

[TheJammin]

It's difficult to pick up new viewers nowadays as everything is behind a paywall. I like watching many different categories, but I wouldn't have even thought of them or come across them without forums or the interwebs these days. IndyCar, F1, DTM, you wouldn't come across these browsing channels as they're behind paywalls. I think FE is only on red button, not actually on any BBC channels so you wouldn't come across this... I guess W Series and BTCC are the only ones I can think of where you could accidentally watch a race flipping through channels. I think picking up new viewers by accident is one of the best ways to increase viewership and sponsor revenue.

 

I myself if I'm bored sat at home have before now skipped through channels and stopped on the Rugby League world cup because it was on and I thought "meh, why not" and I enjoyed it so have watched more and taken a more active interest. I did the same again recently with BTCC after not seeing it for years. There's no chance of doing that if you have to pay for Sky or BT whatever DTM is on now, or if you have to type specifically for Super Formula or DTM into youtube.

 

There are too many ways in which to watch sports now, too many competing markets that I think ironically it's made it more difficult to find something new. That and prices for things are getting too expensive anyway.

 

Plus there is just much more in general on TV nowadays, there are so many TV shows of all genres, so many box sets to watch, all competing for space in the schedule and forcing other things to the red button or youtube etc. There's just not the time to be a casual viewer. We're spoilt for choice of entertainment and it means some things get pushed to the wayside. You rarely see motorsports advertised during breaks, but you will get all manner of HBO or Sky Atlantic shows, or Love Island or Ant & Dec's Jungle Takeaway advertised. Motorsports isn't doing enough to promote itself, and then you can't stumble across it by accident as easily, so of course it's not getting many viewers except those who already like it.

[Risil]

Golf is so worried about declining participation that they just took the unprecendented step of spicing up the show by letting people putt into the hole with the flag still in it. That's the golfing equivalent of reverse grids, sprinklers, DRS and FanBoost put together. The problem is they don't really have anywhere to go from here, except letting Masters champions customize their green jackets with sequins, tassels etc.

[Ben1445]

I don't buy into all this negativity about motorsport "dying", I think it is overstated. I think it would be more accurate to say it is "changing".

 

If motorsport is dying, then [...]

Great answer, if I may say so. 

[maximilian]

Golf is so worried about declining participation that they just took the unprecendented step of spicing up the show by letting people putt into the hole with the flag still in it. That's the golfing equivalent of reverse grids, sprinklers, DRS and FanBoost put together. The problem is they don't really have anywhere to go from here, except letting Masters champions customize their green jackets with sequins, tassels etc.

 

They could make the hole bigger to lower scores, increase the number of holes in one, and speed up play in general...

 

[maximilian]

It's difficult to get people interested in motorsports in general when the supposedly "premier" motorsports series in the world is a huge borefest.

[Nonesuch]

I know many many folk in their 20’s now who have no interest in learning to drive/having a car. And the way the world is going now, the car is seen as a dirty evil planet killer.

 

The car is also seen as a black hole for ever more taxes, ever more expensive fuel, an investment few 20-year-olds on internships and part-time limited contracts can make, and a giant expense all around.

 

Pretty much all the 20-somethings in my circle of acquaintances immediately bought a car when they got a solid and secure job. The only exception being the few that live less than a half an hour bike ride from their workplace.

 

The idea that a 20 year old is the future is just not the case. They're not 20 forever, and their needs and wants will change as they age.

 

Edited by Nonesuch, 20 May 2019 - 12:09.

[Sterzo]

Went to a race meeting yesterday, where my first words to my daughter were "Wow! Look at the size of the crowd!" It seems to get bigger each year.

 

Was this about "bringing racing to the people" in an iconic destination city? Answer: Snetterton! Old airfield near piggeries.

 

Nevertheless, I do agree motor racing's popularity is in decline - and should be. What matters is how the sport reacts to the pressing need to change. If anything bores me, it's commercialism, excess, waste and prioritising money over sport. It's been taking F1 in the wrong direction since the seventies. If the huge following of F1 (which largely equals watching telly) is a result of racing's conversion into a marketable "product", then let's say goodbye to a few million fans as soon as possible. Aim for better racing at a lower cost. It already happens; let's drive the whole show in that direction.

Edited by Sterzo, 20 May 2019 - 12:13.

[TheJammin]

I get the feeling the more local events such as Snetterton etc are getting more popular and bigger crowds, whilst big headline events like F1 are seeing lesser crowds. Ticket prices may be a big part of it. The crowd at Oulton Park for the BTCC was immense last year. But Silverstone still draws big crowds too for F1, so who knows.

[SCUDmissile]

Millennials

[Nonesuch]

Ticket prices may be a big part of it.

 

I hadn't given it much attention, but it was pointed out to me by someone who came along to the WEC at Spa-Francorchamps that ticket prices had more than doubled compared to just two or three years ago.

 

They're still amazing value compared to a scam like F1, but nevertheless - given the fate of the LMP1 Hybrids one might have expected prices to actually come down.

Edited by Nonesuch, 20 May 2019 - 12:23.

[TheJammin]

I went to WEC Silverstone in 2014 I think it was... and the ticket prices were brilliant and the access was amazing, my wife was very chuffed at meeting Mark Webber and scaring him with her pillow with his face on it. But the prices now compared to then are bizarrely expensive. Like you say if anything the prices should have come down.

[MikeV1987]

I wouldn't say it's dying, it's become more niche but it's evolving to get with the times. I think sim racing will become the new grass roots of racing and maybe motorsport will get more popular as a result, sim racing is getting bigger and more popular every year.

Edited by MikeV1987, 20 May 2019 - 12:39.

[Vielleicht]

I went to WEC Silverstone in 2014 I think it was... and the ticket prices were brilliant and the access was amazing, my wife was very chuffed at meeting Mark Webber and scaring him with her pillow with his face on it. But the prices now compared to then are bizarrely expensive. Like you say if anything the prices should have come down.

I've been the the 6 Hour of Silverstone every year since 2011. Back then it was I think £25 for a weekend ticket. Slowly risen to more like £50 last year I think it was. It's been going up by roughly £5 a year. 2011 attendance I'm pretty sure was 20,000 and I think WEC has been getting in upwards of 50,000 there in recent years. The off track stalls/activities and better veriety of open grandstands in comparison to 2011 does make the higher ticket prices seem more reasonable, so it's not comeltely linked to the racing. But if they raise them any more... they will start to lose their value for money.

Edited by Vielleicht, 20 May 2019 - 12:45.

[TheJammin]

That's the danger, I guess. Prices will always go up over time in line with markets and economy etc, but WEC has seemingly done it rapidly and like you say is in danger of losing value for money.

 

But here I am buying tickets for the German GP and thinking tickets 3 times more expensive than WEC aren't so bad. Messed up.

[TomNokoe]

Agree massively with the points raised about Sim Racing, which I believe needs to be separated from "eSports". They are similar, but not the same.

Although it will still be limited by the overall desire to drive cars fast, which may be the limiting factor, rather than the engagement of those who have a fleeting interest.

However as I said earlier, I think "driving cars" and "watching cars" are too different things. To use a sample size of 1 (me), I haven't even had a driving lesson after 24 years (family disappointment, etc.), and have never made the link between driving and sport.

Edited by TomNokoe, 20 May 2019 - 13:09.

[MikeV1987]

Agree massively with the points raised about Sim Racing, which I believe needs to be separated from "eSports". They are similar, but not the same.

 

No other game genre translates to real life like sim racing does. F1 has an official sim racing series, Gran Turismo has the nations and manufacturer series backed by the FIA, Assetto Corsa is working with the Blancpain GT series.

 

It's only going to get bigger. Sim racing is soooo much more accessible than the real thing, just a matter of time before it becomes a major stepping stone to the real thing.

Edited by MikeV1987, 20 May 2019 - 13:17.

[Cornholio]

I don't doubt that numbers (however they are measured) maybe are down, but regarding motor racing becoming a niche activity, not being trendy etc. I've got to be honest I've always had the impression that was the case, based on my own life, and sadly I'm not that young anymore either.

 

From my time becoming a fan, through to the end of school both primary and secondary - basically all of the 1990s, I was literally the only one in my class (so roughly 30 kids, give or take), with any sort of interest in the sport. I was basically known as the F1 nerd in my class, and the only time others would even take a passing interest would be to feign support of a rival driver for the sole purpose of winding me up (and at that age, it usually worked, of course)

 

In secondary school one of the teachers once said "Oh have you ever met (kid in different form but same year)? He's a big fan too." singling him out like that implied to me that that made two of us, in a year of maybe 240-300. OK maybe a possibility of three or four who never got mentioned to me.

 

Maybe some would watch the odd race in the same way people who aren't that into football might still watch a World Cup or something, but that was probably down to the already-mentioned fewer options back then to pass the time. 4-5 channels, satellite TV not fully adopted and internet barely.

 

OK I guess my personal experiences aren't an adequate statistical sample size for any firm conclusions, but if anyone of a similar age to me has a dramatically different recollection of growing up I'd be intrigued to hear, as I haven't before. And I can't speak for the habits of adults back then beyond knowing that my parents weren't fans, although then again it seems to be younger fans (or lack of them) that many are concerned about these days...

Edited by Cornholio, 20 May 2019 - 13:19.

[messy]

Lack of top level Motorsport on free to air is a big issue but not the only one. I feel like it used to be much more mainstream. You'd turn on BBC grandstand and find early 00's MotoGP and you'd be able to catch Neil Hodgson winning in BSB or WSB too before switching over to watch the F1 while recording the BTCC on the other side. Then you could get up and watch grainy live footage of CART races on C5 in the middle of the night.

You can obviously still watch all of that, but all aside from the BTCC are behind a paywall and even that isn't on the main channel but shunted onto ITV4 as is Formula E on the 'red button'. In the past on a lazy Sunday afternoon it was often hard to avoid some live Motorsport - it's how I got into it, to be honest, as a kid. Now, you have to go looking for it and unless you're already a fan, you don't do that.

Funny how it seems to be becoming more niche as - in other respects - it moves forward big time. I'm all for the W-Series being on C4 to get it some new supporters - but honestly, if I was trying to get my 10 year old self into Motorsport and that was the best thing I could stumble on while channel hopping on a sleep afternoon.....I'd probably not be much impressed. Sorry sorry sorry sorry horrible person etc. But you need to showcase the absolute BEST of what's on offer and where's that? ££££££ please and my parents won't get that Sky subscription in a million years. Nah, sod that.

Other issues clearly too, but it's a big one.