23 replies to this topic

[Paco]

This B-team crap is getting completely out of hand and completely un-F1.

 

So Ferrari now looking to recall someone employeed at Alfa.. seriously, their B-team.  NO gardening leave as a result.  Simply because they lack competiveness.

 

RB flauting with new motorhome and how stupidly close TR is.

Ferrari pulling rank and pulling staff from their B-team...

 

Perhpas, its not team budgets that is the real risk to F1 but all these team sharing and buying year old and current parts from their respective Ferrari-RB camps that is the real risk to F1's future.

 

Is the forum ok with Ferrari pulling rank on a B-team and recalling staff just because they can and no apparent seperation between them...

 

 

Edited by Paco, 23 May 2019 - 21:29.

[Fatgadget]

I see no problem...Gardening leave? That is a matter between individual teams to agree on. As for team budgets; The haves will always find ways around any rules like it or not <shrugs>

[warp]

 

 

So Ferrari now looking to recall someone employeed at Alfa.. seriously, their B-team.  NO gardening leave as a result. 

 

Gardening leave? Why Ferrari/Alfa should be afraid of the secrets of Alfa/Ferrari go to Alfa/Ferrari??

[Atreiu]

It never looks good when you get back with your ex. But if it works out good for you.

[Paco]

Gardening leave? Why Ferrari/Alfa should be afraid of the secrets of Alfa/Ferrari go to Alfa/Ferrari??

 

Yes.. precisely that!  As fans of F1.. we can't tolerate that.  Can you imagine if MGP had that.. we'd have all top 6 spots all Mercedes powered teams.  Its utter and disgusting to think that there are no secrets, that they don't have their own staffiing that are important..   If Ferrari or Honda PU pull a huge gap.. it sucks to think that A and B teams are going to be dominate simply because of their A-team sharing.  Its utter nonsense and F1 would be a disgrace if FI had done that.. if Williams had done that.. can you even imagine the press and other teams losing their bananas.

 

B-teams were never to have been that close.. that tightly affliliated.  Its nonsense.  So we go for 10 teams to what .. 3...

[GrumpyYoungMan]

It never looks good when you get back with your ex. But if it works out good for you.

But they are normally for an reason, and it won’t work... never go backwards...

[loki]

Is the forum ok with Ferrari pulling rank on a B-team and recalling staff just because they can and no apparent seperation between them...

I'm OK with Ferrari assigning their employees based on business conditions.  Happens all the time in other industries.

[Fatgadget]

Yes.. precisely that!  As fans of F1.. we can't tolerate that.  Can you imagine if MGP had that.. we'd have all top 6 spots all Mercedes powered teams.  Its utter and disgusting to think that there are no secrets, that they don't have their own staffiing that are important..   If Ferrari or Honda PU pull a huge gap.. it sucks to think that A and B teams are going to be dominate simply because of their A-team sharing.  Its utter nonsense and F1 would be a disgrace if FI had done that.. if Williams had done that.. can you even imagine the press and other teams losing their bananas.

 

B-teams were never to have been that close.. that tightly affliliated.  Its nonsense.  So we go for 10 teams to what .. 3...

But hang on! We only have effectively 4 teams as things stand. Its an open secret that those sharing the same engine share the same drive trains and cooling systems. Its only in the aero and software modes the difference I reckon...Assuming all customer engines are identical.

[RacingGreen]

So Ferrari & Beta Romeo are the same company with a four car entry and the appearance of separate teams is just a marketing facade used to sell more Giulietta's. Didn't we all know this anyway? Are Scuderia Toro Rosso Honda really a different team from Red Bull Honda? These 'b' team relationships diminish the credibility of F1 but given the astronomical costs it is the only way small teams like Sauber and Minardi have been able to survive at all, or that new teams like Haas can join the circus. 

 

Don't blame Ferrari - fix the sport. That includes both it's uneven finances, and using simpler restricted PU's that almost anyone can afford to build.

[Ellios]

The distance between Mercedes and the rest is already too big and seemingly getting bigger with no end in sight. If we want to see competitive races between teams and not just two teammates we should applaud Ferrari for doing this or scold them for not doing it sooner.

[pitlanepalpatine]

To be honest it depends on what the ageement was with Alfa. It's not uncommon for management personnel to move between contracts if they want promotion and as long as parties agree to it I have no problem with it. It'd be the same thing if Horner left and they pulled Franz Tost to replace him. This kind of stuff happens in Football all the time and no one bats an eyelid.

[OneAndOnly]

Yes.. precisely that!  As fans of F1.. we can't tolerate that.  Can you imagine if MGP had that.. we'd have all top 6 spots all Mercedes powered teams.  Its utter and disgusting to think that there are no secrets, that they don't have their own staffiing that are important..   If Ferrari or Honda PU pull a huge gap.. it sucks to think that A and B teams are going to be dominate simply because of their A-team sharing.  Its utter nonsense and F1 would be a disgrace if FI had done that.. if Williams had done that.. can you even imagine the press and other teams losing their bananas.

 

B-teams were never to have been that close.. that tightly affliliated.  Its nonsense.  So we go for 10 teams to what .. 3...

WTF?

Do you even know what gardening leave is? It has nothing to do with Formula 1 or fans. 

[Lights]

I agree B teams are an issue in F1. But they exist because of the state of F1.

 

Ideally F1 consists of 10+ well-funded, independent teams/brands. But that's just not the situation because it's a very tough sport to participate in.

 

It's a huge investment and for many teams it's only held up because of some racing enthusiasts within rich corporations.

 

Any team that ends up at the back will start losing sponsors and prize money to just dig themselves even deeper. 

[Raest]

Yes, because that's the problem with modern F1, Ferrari moving employees from one company to the other...     

 

The Ferrari hate is strong in this one. 

 

At least phrase your questions properly. 

 

Is this a Bad precedent to be setting and what should be happening in F1?

 

Those should be mutually exclusive. 

Edited by Raest, 24 May 2019 - 08:28.

[SophieB]

It's not really a precedent, it's other teams copying the Redbull/ Toro Rosso model which I always thought stunk. It is all better than nothing because it means we have a sport and hundreds of people keep their jobs but it points to a sickness in the heart of the sport where it's not actually healthy enough to run sufficient truly independent teams for a viable grid, with second cars making sudden pit stops or even leaping out of the way of cars that are notionally their rivals.

[JRodrigues]

So Ferrari & Beta Romeo are the same company with a four car entry and the appearance of separate teams is just a marketing facade used to sell more Giulietta's. Didn't we all know this anyway? Are Scuderia Toro Rosso Honda really a different team from Red Bull Honda? These 'b' team relationships diminish the credibility of F1 but given the astronomical costs it is the only way small teams like Sauber and Minardi have been able to survive at all, or that new teams like Haas can join the circus. 

 

Don't blame Ferrari - fix the sport. That includes both it's uneven finances, and using simpler restricted PU's that almost anyone can afford to build.

 

If they are the same, so why is the gap between them so big?

[BRK]

Perhpas, its not team budgets that is the real risk to F1 but all these team sharing and buying year old and current parts from their respective Ferrari-RB camps that is the real risk to F1's future.

 

 

The real risk to F1 is Mercedes' continuing domination which is destroying the 'sport'. I am not a fan of B-teams. But there are bigger problems posing a risk to F1's future.  

Edited by BRK, 24 May 2019 - 10:09.

[SCUDmissile]

Personally I think it's fair to comment on Mercedes' second team, Pirelli, too.

[Garndell]

To me what Ferrari are doing is the staff equivalent of doping in athletics.  Staff should be fixed for the season with only exceptional circumstances (death etc) allowing staff to move teams during the season.  Staff moving from parent team to B team should have a minimum 2 year term to prevent abuse too, 3 for senior personnel (TD, Designer etc) albeit free to move after 1 year to a non associated team.

 

If Pirelli are Mercedes' 2nd team then the FIA are in the Ferrari stable... never miss a conspiracy opportunity.

[OneAndOnly]

To me what Ferrari are doing is the staff equivalent of doping in athletics.  Staff should be fixed for the season with only exceptional circumstances (death etc) allowing staff to move teams during the season.  Staff moving from parent team to B team should have a minimum 2 year term to prevent abuse too, 3 for senior personnel (TD, Designer etc) albeit free to move after 1 year to a non associated team.

 

If Pirelli are Mercedes' 2nd team then the FIA are in the Ferrari stable... never miss a conspiracy opportunity.

Then you are 13 years and few months late with your remark (hint: Scuderia Toro Rosso).

 

Only reason for gardening leave is to prevent transfer of knowledge from one enterprise to another. If teams are already sharing knowledge then it's pointless to have in that case anyway. Also it's stupid to make rules which you cannot enforce effectively. Toro Rosso served as test platform for RBR on many occasions, but it's almost impossible to prove it beyond reasonable doubt.

I am not saying I support this practice. I'd rather like to see Honda, BMW or Porsche competing with their factory teams instead of B teams, but it's today's Formula 1.

[Nonesuch]

B-teams are silly in what is supposed to be the FIA's premier series. If F1 is too hard for all but three teams, then the game should be simplified. B-teams shouldn't be a thing at this level.

 

But that aside, what one man and two companies decide about that person's employment opportunities is their business. Not anyone else's.

Edited by Nonesuch, 24 May 2019 - 13:14.

[Pimpwerx]

I voted yes for both. If the rules don't forbid it, then sure they should be allowed to do so. However, I also agree that it's a bad precedent. It effectively gives them 4 cars in the show, which isn't how the rules are intended to work. 

[HP]

I voted yes for both. If the rules don't forbid it, then sure they should be allowed to do so. However, I also agree that it's a bad precedent. It effectively gives them 4 cars in the show, which isn't how the rules are intended to work. 

Who made the rules and who is supposed to enforce them? That's where the complaints should be addressed to.

[Pimpwerx]

Who made the rules and who is supposed to enforce them? That's where the complaints should be addressed to.

Not sure it can be policed. Alfa could just fire him out accept his resignation, and then let Ferrari rehire him. The only rule would be restricting movement of employees between teams during the season. In that case it would hurt lower ranking employees who might get a big offer mid-season. Alfa could always demote him to janitor and let him walk. No easy solution IMO.