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Starting a racing engine


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#1 mariner

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 13:48

Its raining outside and hving just read the brake change thread I decided to try to start one about that endless source of frustration , starting a race engine.

 

Apologies if it is a repeat.

 

My favourite description of starting an engine was by the late Rolla Vollstedt . I've lost the link but it is really funny - and informative.

 

I have seen mechanics use ether ( easystart), neat petrol and tow ropes but the neatest trick I heard was about Dave Lazenby (IIRC)  and the Ford quad cam Indy engine. It had fixed ignition timing so was very hard to start up. The methanol fuel was in limited supply at Cheshunt so Jim showed the team how to start it by taking the acetylene torch and opening the acetylene valve only then pointing the torch down the intake ports while the engine was cranked.  VOILA one running Indy engine and lots of noise to disturb Dela

mere Rroad 


Edited by mariner, 04 June 2019 - 13:53.


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#2 D-Type

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 14:15

I like it!  I'd heard of ether, but not acetylene.  I wonder:  would propane work the same way?



#3 Allen Brown

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 15:08

It always amazes me how few motor racing facilities were burnt to the ground during the 1960s



#4 Garsted

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 15:55

More recently of course, you have to pump hot water round the things for 15 minutes before even thinking about adding spark to fuel.  I suppose it shortens the the warming up process a bit on the other side of ignition.

 

Steve



#5 alansart

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 18:39



 ;)



#6 10kDA

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 19:23

It always amazes me how few motor racing facilities were burnt to the ground during the 1960s

And the ones that did were probably the result of the mechanic doing the start routine with a cigarette in his mouth.



#7 Tim Murray

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 19:35

The experiences of Pete Lovely when he first tried to start his Lotus 49 at the 1969 Race of Champions meeting have always stuck in my mind. I hope Michael Oliver won’t mind me quoting Pete’s own words, as Michael recorded them in Lotus 49: The Story of a Legend:

Lovely was to take delivery of the car at the circuit on the Friday morning of the meeting. As he recounts, liaison between customer and supplier was minimal, to say the least: ‘It was sitting alongside the transporter when we got there with its funny red paint job and the wheel wrench and four spare wheels and tyres and nothing else! And the crew, all the Team Lotus mechanics, said “We’re off to the pits, see you out there” because we were in the old paddock up on the hillside there and you had to go through the tunnel to get to the racetrack. Anyway, away they went. And, gee, I hadn’t the foggiest notion how to even start the engine! So I kinda looked at the switches. I turned on the electric fuel pump and that sounded like something to do and turned on the ignition and cranked it for a while but it wouldn’t start.

‘It was a cold day and we had a rental car, which was an Austin 1100 four-door sedan, so we borrowed a rope and my wife drove the Austin around the paddock with me tied on the back, trying to get it started. And it would go “splutter bang, splutter bang”. And finally Ken Tyrrell flagged us down and said “Did you put it on full rich?” And I said “No, how do you do that?”. He called Allan McCall over and Allan reached in there with a couple of screwdrivers - I didn’t even know what he was doing as I was still sitting in the car - and he put it on full rich. By golly, the next trip around the paddock behind the 1100 it started and ran! I thought oh, that’s good. And then it ran on full rich for the next three races because I didn’t know how to change it - nobody ever showed me!’



#8 Charlieman

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 23:36

The experiences of Pete Lovely when he first tried to start his Lotus 49 at the 1969 Race of Champions meeting have always stuck in my mind.
 

A good story. Although, perhaps, a DFV running at full rich mixture wouldn't have run very far.



#9 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 00:37

My father used acetylene to try and get the Victa lawnmower going!

Different engines different methods, my two are both crank them on the starter with the ignition turned off to get oil pressure then turn the ignition on while cranking. Any race engine needs to be cranking before adding spark. More so with fixed ignition.

I shudder seeing anyone start a competition engine stone cold without such.

 

Most methanol engines appreciate a squirt of petrol down the inlets/s for ease of start. Though I have seen them start cold on methanol easily enough. These days Sprintcars have a low speed circuit in the injection,, push off, get oil psi and turn on the mag. Start straight up and drive off at 1500-2000 rpm. Unlike in the past where they have to drive off faster or they stall.


Edited by Lee Nicolle, 05 June 2019 - 00:49.


#10 Tim Murray

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 05:37

A good story. Although, perhaps, a DFV running at full rich mixture wouldn't have run very far.


Jack Brabham only ran out of fuel on the last lap of the 1970 British GP with his DFV’s mixture set at full rich. As Lovely’s next three races with the car (at Silverstone, Riverside and Laguna Seca) were all significantly shorter than Grand Prix distance, I’m inclined to believe his story.

#11 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 05:50

I love the Pete Lovely story...sounds just like him talking.  He had so many stories.

 

One way of starting a Cooper 500...

 

DSCF0073.jpg

 

Vince H.


Edited by raceannouncer2003, 05 June 2019 - 05:50.


#12 Nemo1965

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 08:04

I assume that every poster has read the Unfair Advantage by Mark Donohue, but just in case: the book has many examples of experts like Donohue and the Penske-mechanics not getting an engine to start.

 

Worth consulting if you want to start a racing engine... 


Edited by Nemo1965, 05 June 2019 - 08:54.


#13 f1steveuk

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 08:24

I did a big feature on starting a F1 engine as part of an series showing the differences between F1 and Indy, just before we first went to Indy in 2000, but I wont name the team.

 

 

The engines wouldn't even turn over if they weren't up to temp' let alone start, hence the pumping around of pre heated coolant and oil, to get the engine to expand!

 

All teams had to start on laptops, which would take over the running of the engine during these starts, and several had programmes which could used to notes produced within the rev range to play tunes, which Mr  E hated!!



#14 mariner

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 09:06

Getting oil pressure , and ideally oil temperature is ,as Lee and F1steve have said is vital. At least Pete Lovely's trips round the paddock gave him oil pressure. The first golden rule in Rollo Voldstadts article is " when you get to the race garage in the morning you must turn on the oil tank heater on a turbo Offy BEFORE you turn on the coffee urn".

 

As Steve says starting an F1 car today requires a huge pile of external equipment, water pre-heater, oil pre-heater, gearbox hydraulics pressurisation, cooling water air spring tank pressure line and at least one laptop. Modern F1 being modern F1 this is all done out of sight of the spectators inside garages.

 

Sprint car racing being sprint car racing their starting is easier, more exciting and done in front of the crowd to get them hyped up a bit. As Sprint cars have no on-board starters it is all push start stuff using big pick up trucks. It is good entertainment as there are say 10 pick ups to start 25-35 cars. So each pick up has to circle back twice. So the track is mix of rumbling V-8's running quick enough to keep cool, pick ups shoving at low speed and more pick up's doing U turns to get behind the next car in line for a start. All good fun.

 

With all respect to Lee I once saw a sprint car race in Queensland where the Aussie passion for Utes came unstuck, literally, on the clay track. The Utes  were used in place of 4WD pick ups. Utes have 2WD and no weight over the back axle so when the Sprint driver dropped the clutch on a 15:1 CR V-8 the Ute just spun the back wheels and looked like a crab as it pushed. Eventually the got the cars all started.


Edited by mariner, 05 June 2019 - 09:08.


#15 alansart

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 09:10


 

All teams had to start on laptops, which would take over the running of the engine during these starts, and several had programmes which could used to notes produced within the rev range to play tunes, which Mr  E hated!!

Like this :)



#16 Michael Ferner

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 12:23

That's hilarious! :lol:



#17 Bloggsworth

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 14:19

We had a pinnace at school and the diesel engine had a lever which opened the exhaust valves while starting, and which was released when the engine was spinning fast enough to start.



#18 Allan Lupton

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 15:00

We had a pinnace at school and the diesel engine had a lever which opened the exhaust valves while starting, and which was released when the engine was spinning fast enough to start.

The National diesel engine on my father's canal boat had that system with hand-cranking. You couldn't swing it over compression, but with the valve-lifter in operation a good portion of rotating inertia could be built up, which would take it over a couple of compressions after the valves were released and that would usually start it.



#19 Glengavel

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 20:01

My father used acetylene to try and get the Victa lawnmower going!

Different engines different methods, my two are both crank them on the starter with the ignition turned off to get oil pressure then turn the ignition on while cranking. Any race engine needs to be cranking before adding spark. More so with fixed ignition.

I shudder seeing anyone start a competition engine stone cold without such.

 

Most methanol engines appreciate a squirt of petrol down the inlets/s for ease of start. Though I have seen them start cold on methanol easily enough. These days Sprintcars have a low speed circuit in the injection,, push off, get oil psi and turn on the mag. Start straight up and drive off at 1500-2000 rpm. Unlike in the past where they have to drive off faster or they stall.

 

I have memories of my farming uncles spraying some pungent fluid into recalcitrant tractor engines. There may also have been some swearing.



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#20 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 21:06

We had a pinnace at school and the diesel engine had a lever which opened the exhaust valves while starting, and which was released when the engine was spinning fast enough to start.

Sounds like I might have gone to the same school! To stop you just opened the valves again!  :wave:



#21 Bloggsworth

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 21:28

Sounds like I might have gone to the same school! To stop you just opened the valves again!  :wave:

 

Only if you went to school on the banks of the Orwell...



#22 Ardmore

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 21:54

IMG-4369-2.jpg

 

How to start a kart. Wrap an old seat belt around a rear tyre and pull. You need a mate at the front to steady the kart.



#23 GreenMachine

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 23:47

Based on the colour of the disk brake rotor in the foreground, it might have been a while.  I hope they refreshed the fuel, or he might get more exercise that he expected.

 

Is the underpants display part of the ritual?



#24 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 07:54

I have memories of my farming uncles spraying some pungent fluid into recalcitrant tractor engines. There may also have been some swearing.

Later on he discovered Aerostart, ether really, and that was very handy around Fiat tractors.  Great things once you manage to get the things to start. Luckily we had some steep hills!

Italian motor vehicles,, electrics are junk at best and seldom ever started on the starter even when warm. And 2 big truck/tractor batteries.

American tractors supposed to have a large battery, yet the Allis front end loader had a normal Holden car battery in it and it always started.

Oh and pommy Ford trucks,, Lucas and that was clutch start it down a hill also but would normally start warm.



#25 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 07:55

Based on the colour of the disk brake rotor in the foreground, it might have been a while.  I hope they refreshed the fuel, or he might get more exercise that he expected.

 

Is the underpants display part of the ritual?.

Sprocket, not rotor.



#26 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 08:10

Getting oil pressure , and ideally oil temperature is ,as Lee and F1steve have said is vital. At least Pete Lovely's trips round the paddock gave him oil pressure. The first golden rule in Rollo Voldstadts article is " when you get to the race garage in the morning you must turn on the oil tank heater on a turbo Offy BEFORE you turn on the coffee urn".

 

As Steve says starting an F1 car today requires a huge pile of external equipment, water pre-heater, oil pre-heater, gearbox hydraulics pressurisation, cooling water air spring tank pressure line and at least one laptop. Modern F1 being modern F1 this is all done out of sight of the spectators inside garages.

 

Sprint car racing being sprint car racing their starting is easier, more exciting and done in front of the crowd to get them hyped up a bit. As Sprint cars have no on-board starters it is all push start stuff using big pick up trucks. It is good entertainment as there are say 10 pick ups to start 25-35 cars. So each pick up has to circle back twice. So the track is mix of rumbling V-8's running quick enough to keep cool, pick ups shoving at low speed and more pick up's doing U turns to get behind the next car in line for a start. All good fun.

 

With all respect to Lee I once saw a sprint car race in Queensland where the Aussie passion for Utes came unstuck, literally, on the clay track. The Utes  were used in place of 4WD pick ups. Utes have 2WD and no weight over the back axle so when the Sprint driver dropped the clutch on a 15:1 CR V-8 the Ute just spun the back wheels and looked like a crab as it pushed. Eventually the got the cars all started.

These days many push cars are 4wd, very handy on wet slippery tracks. Though for decades utes and vans have push started midgets and Sprinters. I went in the middle a few times with a friend using a standard Falcon panel van,200 three on the tree. His boss then raced sedans so they ended up with a couple of big sedan steer tyres on the van. It fried clutches however, about one a season.

I have seen sprinters pushed off with an electric Golf Kart, hard work but, the quads do it as well. Though that is warm engines!

That is why Sprintcars are at the track at 4pm for engine starts at 4 30. Makes  a long night for them at times.

As for all the push start b/s, it gets very wearing with restart after restart. Reason I seldom go these days,, 75 min for a 20 lap B main one night cured me!! After the third restart they should have declared it, there was about 13!!



#27 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 08:18

I did a big feature on starting a F1 engine as part of an series showing the differences between F1 and Indy, just before we first went to Indy in 2000, but I wont name the team.

 

 

The engines wouldn't even turn over if they weren't up to temp' let alone start, hence the pumping around of pre heated coolant and oil, to get the engine to expand!

 

All teams had to start on laptops, which would take over the running of the engine during these starts, and several had programmes which could used to notes produced within the rev range to play tunes, which Mr  E hated!!

Yet these days go to a historic meeting and the F1s start as easy as a Formula Ford with two guys. And that is cold. Ferrari, Beneton at PI. 

I was involved with a V8 Supercar team in the 90s, they went through all of that too. Yet the owner, the driver  [and myself] had raced Sports Sedans where you started them carefully and got them up to temp just like any other engine. And those were far more powerfull engines than the asthmatic 10-1 five litre things they use. And especially then.



#28 Dale Harvey

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 21:56

Sprocket, not rotor.

Look again Lee. You cannot see the sprocket on that kart. (The one on the ground)

 

Dale.


Edited by Dale Harvey, 06 June 2019 - 21:56.


#29 f1steveuk

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 08:53

Like this :)

 

Very much so! There would be a few tunes going on in the pit lane sometimes, though the funniest was watching Mr E and Pasquale walking down the pit lane to the Laurel and Hardy theme, I guess it was a coincidence, but I don't know........



#30 f1steveuk

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 08:57

Yet these days go to a historic meeting and the F1s start as easy as a Formula Ford with two guys. And that is cold. Ferrari, Beneton at PI. 

I was involved with a V8 Supercar team in the 90s, they went through all of that too. Yet the owner, the driver  [and myself] had raced Sports Sedans where you started them carefully and got them up to temp just like any other engine. And those were far more powerfull engines than the asthmatic 10-1 five litre things they use. And especially then.

Yes, a DFV is a little easier, I think it's the mix of materials in a modern engine that is the problem, ceramic pistons in exotic metal cylinders, not even rings on them, with different expansion rates, designed to run with tolerances set for running, not sitting cold!



#31 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 02:19

Look again Lee. You cannot see the sprocket on that kart. (The one on the ground)

 

Dale.

I was referring to the one being started, the sprocket is rusty, the rotor on the otherside is near invisible

The one on the ground has a rusty rotor



#32 GreenMachine

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 02:38

That's right Lee, that's why I used the word 'foreground'  ;)

 

/rusty rotor discussion closed. 

 

Please. 

 

No more. 

 

Thank you.

 

:wave:



#33 Ardmore

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 21:40

IMG-3045-2.jpg

 

Just before we leave this topic I should point out that those Karts race on a dirt track and sometimes it's a very wet dirt track. So it's not surprising there's a bit of rust showing.



#34 MPea3

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Posted 14 July 2021 - 21:46

Sadly the Vollstedt page on starting a turbo Offy is long gone. I wish I had saved a copy.

#35 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 01:02



I like it!  I'd heard of ether, but not acetylene.  I wonder:  would propane work the same way?

My father used that to start [quote] rotten 2 stroke mowers.



#36 PJGD

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 01:29

The Trojan community typically use propane for starting their hand rachet-cranked 2-stroke engines which are otherwise prone to flooding or generally hard to start, whereas propane as a gas does not wet the plugs.



#37 Doug Nye

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 19:16

Back before pandemic when we used to run the Collier Connoisseurship Symposia at the museum in Naples, FL, part of the programme included starting and running some of the Museum cars.  One year it was decided to include a very early Benz (I think) in the programme, to remind attendees of how complex the start procedure could be in the era of hot-tube ignition.  The wonderful Peak District-based British restorer Eddie Berrisford began the procedure, topping up the methylated spirit burner in the appropriate fire box and then lighting it to heat the platinum tube until it would glow red hot. The end of the tube penetrating into the cylinder would then spark the incoming mixture as it was compressed.

 

After a few minutes wait, with the tube starting to glow, he swung over the engine's flywheel and brought the piston onto a compression stroke. Bang!  Followed by silence.

 

Wait a few minutes more.  Eddie gave the flywheel another exploratory swing. Bang! Tuf-cough-tuf... Silence.

 

Much fiddling with controls.

 

Wait a bit longer...

 

Eddie swung the flywheel - 'Bang! Pop...tuf - cough - tuf, tuf, sigh...'

 

More fiddling with controls...

 

Chatter had begun amongst the audience.  Someone asked when the shuttle to dinner might arrive...

 

Eddie swung the flywheel. The engine fired, ran briefly - misfired, began to subside - Eddie's hands a blur on the controls, 'cough, Pop, Bang - terf, tuf, tuf, tuf, tuf, tuf.'  Glory be!  She lives!

 

And Eddie turned round to us, about 15 minutes after the demo had begun with that very first drop of methylated spirit - and he declared: "Well - I never said it was a great getaway car..."

 

DCN

 

PS - Then we fired up a Miller 91 - and then a Porsche 917... and only then did the shuttle to dinner arrive.  Happy daze.


Edited by Doug Nye, 16 July 2021 - 19:29.


#38 mariner

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Posted 19 July 2021 - 14:21

Doug Nye's Benz procedure reminds me of the old tractor TVO  engines. I think they used a fuel somewhere between gasoline and kerosene. 

 

https://staroil.co.u...rising-oil-tvo/

 

You certainly used a blowtorch on the carb thing to pre heat it - or some had a little dish to burn paraffin in to get same heat into carb



#39 kyle936

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Posted 19 July 2021 - 16:54

Pure coincidence - I just watched this YouTube video on how to start a Porsche 917. It has a choke but that tends to foul the plugs, so this fellow squirts brake cleaner, which evaporates and doesn't foul the plugs, into the injection trumpets to help it to start. Once it starts, he holds the rpm at no more than 2,500 until the oil comes up to temperature, then takes it to 3,000 rpm until it's fully warmed up. Useful info if we ever make it to that parallel universe we all dream about...

 

 

The chassis is 917-031/026, which means it was originally 026, the Hailwood/Hobbs #22 917 at Le Mans in 1970. Mike Hailwood crashed it in the wet at the Dunlop Curve. It went back to Porsche who converted to open 917PA spyder spec for Jurgen Neuhaus to race in the 1971 Interserie Championship and they re-numbered it 031. In recent years it was converted back to its original coupe spec with '70 Le Mans #22 JWA-Gulf livery.

 

The original 917-031 went to JWA-Gulf as a replacement for 026, was re-numbered 026 and finished second at Le Mans in '71 with Richard Attwood and Herbert Mueller.



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#40 Doug Nye

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Posted 19 July 2021 - 22:02

"This fellow" with the Porsche 917 is Paul Lanzante - former Tyrrell P34 6-wheeler race mechanic with the works team, 1976-77 - leading British historic car restorer/preparer/racer, the man who ran the 1995 Le Mans-winning McLaren F1GTR for Ron Dennis & Co, drivers Dalmas/Lehto/Sekiya.  Surprisingly careful in his spoken commentary - normally every third or fourth word starts with 'F'...  A good guy regardless. Really knows his stuff.  I have worked with him quite a lot.

 

DCN



#41 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 00:51

Doug Nye's Benz procedure reminds me of the old tractor TVO  engines. I think they used a fuel somewhere between gasoline and kerosene. 

 

https://staroil.co.u...rising-oil-tvo/

 

You certainly used a blowtorch on the carb thing to pre heat it - or some had a little dish to burn paraffin in to get same heat into carb

Kero Ford tractors had to be started cold on petrol then switched over once a bit warm and would run fine.

In the 70s the place I worked during a national fuel strike we used power kero to run two of the 'fleet' An old Holden ute and a Chrysler Royal Wagon. Started cold with a bit of mower fuel [the only petrol we had] down the carb then they too ran ok. We did not try is with the 'new' Falcon van as the boss was concerned for the engine



#42 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 00:55

Pure coincidence - I just watched this YouTube video on how to start a Porsche 917. It has a choke but that tends to foul the plugs, so this fellow squirts brake cleaner, which evaporates and doesn't foul the plugs, into the injection trumpets to help it to start. Once it starts, he holds the rpm at no more than 2,500 until the oil comes up to temperature, then takes it to 3,000 rpm until it's fully warmed up. Useful info if we ever make it to that parallel universe we all dream about...

 

 

The chassis is 917-031/026, which means it was originally 026, the Hailwood/Hobbs #22 917 at Le Mans in 1970. Mike Hailwood crashed it in the wet at the Dunlop Curve. It went back to Porsche who converted to open 917PA spyder spec for Jurgen Neuhaus to race in the 1971 Interserie Championship and they re-numbered it 031. In recent years it was converted back to its original coupe spec with '70 Le Mans #22 JWA-Gulf livery.

 

The original 917-031 went to JWA-Gulf as a replacement for 026, was re-numbered 026 and finished second at Le Mans in '71 with Richard Attwood and Herbert Mueller.

Somewhere on You Tube there is a clip of starting a Porsche 917 after an extended period of hibernation. They actually got it going with a jump battery and the starter. Crank up oil pressure? Naaah, crank it then turn on the ignition,, naah. Just crank it over and it coughed burped farted into life, probably running on about 5 cyl and building up to 12. I suspect that did some damage!



#43 brucemoxon

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 01:50

I learned recently that the external starter on a particular March Indycar that races here in Australia, is powered by the electric motor from a WW2 B17's bomb-bay doors. I thought that was very cool. 

 

I have used various chemicals to prod a recalcitrant engine into life - modern cars are just nowhere near as much fun.

 

 

BRM



#44 RTH

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 07:12

Suggesting the use of 'Brake Cleaner' for spraying down inlet trumpets to start engines should be viewed with some caution. It is actually carbon tetrachloride yes it is a wonderfully effective solvent  for cleaning brake parts especially  it dissolves brake fluid and little else does  and on the face of it is a wonderful cleaning agent for all sorts of things and evaporates in to gas very quickly it is also surprisingly inexpensive to buy,  many people put it in a sprayer and use it for everything all the time . It is however a dangerous chemical agent if inhaled. If you do use it , it should be outside in the open air  or with all the doors and windows open and a through flow of draft,  use it sparingly and never allow a tray of it to evaporate in an enclosed room .Use with great care .

 

 

Hazard Summary Carbon tetrachloride may be found in both ambient outdoor and indoor air.  The primary effects of carbon tetrachloride in humans are on the liver, kidneys, and central nervous system (CNS).  Human symptoms of acute (short-term) inhalation and oral exposures to carbon tetrachloride include headache, weakness, lethargy, nausea, and vomiting.  Acute exposures to higher levels and chronic (long-term) inhalation or oral exposure to carbon tetrachloride produces liver and kidney damage in humans.  Human data on the carcinogenic effects of carbon tetrachloride are limited.  Studies in animals have shown that ingestion of carbon tetrachloride increases the risk of liver cancer.  EPA has classified carbon tetrachloride as a Group B2, probable human carcinogen.



#45 Glengavel

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 07:16

Somewhere on You Tube there is a clip of starting a Porsche 917 after an extended period of hibernation. They actually got it going with a jump battery and the starter. Crank up oil pressure? Naaah, crank it then turn on the ignition,, naah. Just crank it over and it coughed burped farted into life, probably running on about 5 cyl and building up to 12. I suspect that did some damage!

 

If it's the one I've seen, it was intended to carry out a full rebuild, so the thought was "let's see if it'll start anyway". It would at least winkle out any weakened components!



#46 Charlieman

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 09:25

Hazard Summary Carbon tetrachloride may be found in both ambient outdoor and indoor air.  The primary effects of carbon tetrachloride in humans are on the liver, kidneys, and central nervous system (CNS).  Human symptoms of acute (short-term) inhalation and oral exposures to carbon tetrachloride include headache, weakness, lethargy, nausea, and vomiting.  Acute exposures to higher levels and chronic (long-term) inhalation or oral exposure to carbon tetrachloride produces liver and kidney damage in humans.  Human data on the carcinogenic effects of carbon tetrachloride are limited.  Studies in animals have shown that ingestion of carbon tetrachloride increases the risk of liver cancer.  EPA has classified carbon tetrachloride as a Group B2, probable human carcinogen.

Ingested through skin contact too. Stings like *multiple expletives deleted* if you get it on a cut.

 

As a solvent, it is also useful for rubber repairs etc.



#47 nmansellfan

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 09:29

Somewhere on YT there is a video of the Honda mechanics at one of the days where they bring out their exhibits at the Motegi Collection Hall and demo them on circuit - The 60's bikes and GP cars and the later Honda powered Williams Lotus / Mclaren's etc.  The particular one I can think of is a Honda factory (JGTC?) driver giving the Mclaren MP4/6 a run.  In the pits the mechanics give it 3 or 4 attempts to get it fired and running via the external starter, with the driver each time not giving it enough revs to catch and idle.  You then see the chief mechanic giving the hand signal to 'Give it some throttle' to the driver - the next time the starter is spun, you get the sound of the most angry sounding V12 racing engine being woken up and briefly revving to what sounds like 11,000+rpm.  With the speaker volume wound up, it certainly grabbed my attention...



#48 mariner

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 09:49

It's not race car  but nothing beats the drama of starting up the legendary SR 71. The first video is only still pics of the twin big block start cart but the audio is real. A huge vertical shaft connected the  two V-8's to each engine in turn.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=JjdyQpEUYzI.

 

The second video is of the full SR 71 launch procedure. The wet all over the hangar floor during start up is the special JP7fuel leaking from every rivet because the frame only seals at supersonic heat.

 

The fuel has a very high flash point to avoid boiling off at 60,o00 ft etc so they injected Triethyborane,TEB,  into each intake to fire the engine, a  bit like the 917 brake cleaner but as you will see more spectacular.

 



#49 RogerFrench

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 16:51

CTC was for years the main ingredient in portable Fire Extinguishers. How does it help to start an engine? Ether, o.k, but CTC?

#50 10kDA

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 21:20

Butane has been in common use as an aerosol propellant for a long time. Maybe the brake cleaner itself was not what helped start the engine. FWIW, about 45 years ago, nitrous oxide was used as a propellant in commercial-use aerosol whipped cream. Not sure when that stopped, but it was stopped. :lol: