848 replies to this topic

[Frank Tuesday]

There seems to be alot of anger regarding this issue and I don't want to get sucked in, but this comment piqued my curiosity.

Why can't he boycott the race? What's stopping him?

FYI I'm not going to criticise Lewis for speaking publicly on the issue, I think it's good. But I also believe that it doesn't exempt him from criticism that perhaps its tokenry and he isn't putting his money where his mouth is to a certain degree?

I'd use the analogy of if you had a friend that holds racist/sexist/discriminatory views. Would you still associate with this person in the hopes that they'd change? Or would you avoid and ostracise them to compel them to adjust their behaviour?

Just my thoughts.

Yeah. If he really cared, he would forfeit the championship an throw his career away.

[RogerStone]

Kudos to Sebastien Vettel. 

[HeadFirst]

There seems to be alot of anger regarding this issue and I don't want to get sucked in, but this comment piqued my curiosity.

Why can't he boycott the race? What's stopping him?

FYI I'm not going to criticise Lewis for speaking publicly on the issue, I think it's good. But I also believe that it doesn't exempt him from criticism that perhaps its tokenry and he isn't putting his money where his mouth is to a certain degree?

I'd use the analogy of if you had a friend that holds racist/sexist/discriminatory views. Would you still associate with this person in the hopes that they'd change? Or would you avoid and ostracise them to compel them to adjust their behaviour?

Just my thoughts.

 

So what would your thoughts be if Lewis just refused to comment, in any way, on human rights issues. Would that meet with your approval.

[PitViperRacing]

So what would your thoughts be if Lewis just refused to comment, in any way, on human rights issues. Would that meet with your approval.

Did you miss the part where I said I think it's good that he speaks out?

[Myrvold]

And as it hasn't been mentioned, a shoutout to Mick Schumacher as well. Both established veterans and rookies in on it. That's good. The FIA and FOM just count the money they get...

[HeadFirst]

Did you miss the part where I said I think it's good that he speaks out?

 

No I caught that, it was all the other stuff that made me wonder if you really think athletes should just avoid comment on political/social issues.

[PitViperRacing]

No I caught that, it was all the other stuff that made me wonder if you really think athletes should just avoid comment on political/social issues.

I'm pretty apathetic tbh. I understand if drivers want to avoid the topics and focus on being a driver. They're not the decision makers on where F1 racers are held. Likewise I don't really care if F1 drivers want to speak out on issues. I appreciate them bringing light to a problematic issue.

I do however understand why people might meet the drivers that speak out with cynicism/criticism however. At the end of the day, the drivers speaking out on the Saudi Arabia situation are still happy to race and pocket the cash. If you're only willing to support an issue so far as it doesn't have any negative ramifications on you personally, do you actually care about it that much?

Again, I'm not criticising them for speaking out, I can just understand why people may see their words as tokenism.

[w00dy]

I do however understand why people might meet the drivers that speak out with cynicism/criticism however. At the end of the day, the drivers speaking out on the Saudi Arabia situation are still happy to race and pocket the cash. If you're only willing to support an issue so far as it doesn't have any negative ramifications on you personally, do you actually care about it that much?

Again, I'm not criticising them for speaking out, I can just understand why people may see their words as tokenism.

Exactly this.

There is a huge cognitive dissonance between what F1/FOM does and what it says. Racing in Qatar, SA vs WeRaceAsOne. It comes off as insincere.
If you look at the human rights indexes, Saudi is a whole different category than Qatar/China/Russia, which are not really the best to begin with.

Lewis doesnt plead ignorance like the 18 others do. He understands the problem and chooses to do what he does. Speak somewhat, take no financial hit.

[Rediscoveryx]

Isn’t it a bit unrealistic to expect any driver to boycott a race unilaterally just to make a point (or to not seem like a hypocrite)?

[PitViperRacing]

Isn’t it a bit unrealistic to expect any driver to boycott a race unilaterally just to make a point (or to not seem like a hypocrite)?

That comes down to who you ask i guess. There have been lots of boycotts for political reasons in sports history.

Is it realistic to expect Lewis to do it? Maybe, I'm not sure. But I think the backlash is because he's talking about the horrible human rights issues perpetuated by the Saudi government, while still personally profiting from said government.

Perhaps a middle ground where he donates the entirety of his Saudi Arabia salary to a charity focusing on the human rights issues in the country? I don't know how F1 drivers contracts are structured, I'm just giving an example.

Again before I get jumped on, I'm not saying I expect Lewis to do these things. Moreso trying to point out why he's received criticism, as people have just assumed its because detractors simply hate him personally.

[Stephane]

Exactly this.

There is a huge cognitive dissonance between what F1/FOM does and what it says. Racing in Qatar, SA vs WeRaceAsOne. It comes off as insincere.
If you look at the human rights indexes, Saudi is a whole different category than Qatar/China/Russia, which are not really the best to begin with.

Lewis doesnt plead ignorance like the 18 others do. He understands the problem and chooses to do what he does. Speak somewhat, take no financial hit.

Some say he, in fact, helps a lot of organizations with money.

[pRy]

Seb and Lewis are doing far more to raise awareness at races than simply not showing up would achieve. I’ve no problem with them being there.

[Bartonz20let]

However, at times I worry that some here don't even agree with the message itself. That adds a different and more disappointing dimension to the conversation....

I think there are 4 clear sections of people currently criticising this stance.

Ones that don't like Lewis because they think he's a plank so can't agree with anything he does (but its OK from Seb).

Ones that don't like him because he's black (guy on Facebook the other day was claiming he has an advantage because black people get treated better for the sake of equality).

Some are genuinely anti LGBTQ+

And what remains don't like statements in sports or have another genuine and honest belief against statements like this.

I actually think the final category is the minority and it bothers me.

Edited by Bartonz20let, 03 December 2021 - 07:58.

[thiscocks]

Lewis doesnt plead ignorance like the 18 others do. He understands the problem and chooses to do what he does. Speak somewhat, take no financial hit.

Just because other drivers don't virtue signal on matters when they are in the paddock doesn't mean they plead ignorance. 

[Sterzo]

That comes down to who you ask i guess. There have been lots of boycotts for political reasons in sports history.

Is it realistic to expect Lewis to do it? Maybe, I'm not sure. But I think the backlash is because he's talking about the horrible human rights issues perpetuated by the Saudi government, while still personally profiting from said government.

 

I think we need to look at what boycotting actually means. It's mentioned as though you just don't turn up and everyone is happy. Hamilton has said he didn't choose to go there, and he is literally correct. He signed a long term contract with Mercedes. What are the implications for your honesty, your reputation, your future in racing and your subsequent future in business if you prove yourself untrustworthy by breaking contracts? I would never do that.

 

 

Perhaps a middle ground where he donates the entirety of his Saudi Arabia salary to a charity focusing on the human rights issues in the country? I don't know how F1 drivers contracts are structured, I'm just giving an example.

 

Maybe he does. How would we know? We are aware that (like many top sportsmen) he does support charities, we don't and won't know which ones.

 

I realise you're trying to explain the logic in the views of others, but it's noticeable that they haven't been able to do that themselves. Someone can be a critic of Hamilton's actions without being racist or a hater of Hamilton, but they can also be guilty of being illogical. People often settle on a conclusion without thinking things through, then refuse to abandon their position.

Edited by Sterzo, 03 December 2021 - 11:35.

[BRG]

Methinks some posters are so lost in their sheer hatred of Lewis Hamilton that they will twist the facts to fit their own hateful narrative.

Absolutely. But sadly some posters are so lost in their sheer hatred of Saudi Arabia that they will twist the facts to fit their own hatefilled narrative.  

 

We are not getting a balanced debate, just vitriolic comments on both sides of the issue.  

 

I wonder how many of those demanding that Lewis boycott the race are voting with their cars and refusing to buy petrol sourced from Saudi Arabia?

 

Just because other drivers don't virtue signal on matters when they are in the paddock doesn't mean they plead ignorance. 

None of them are boycotting the race either, so I guess that shows that they couldn't care less about these matters.

[alframsey]

It must be said that Seb is a great guy, isn't he? Truly a proper good bloke.

[Myrvold]

Just because other drivers don't virtue signal on matters when they are in the paddock doesn't mean they plead ignorance. 

 

Maybe they just don't care? I'm quite sure there's a couple on the grid that really don't care at all, because they don't experience any issues themselves, so it doesn't matter. Not sure that's any better.

 

What I find somewhat interesting is Hamilton with his helmet, Vettel with t-shirt and shoes. Mick Schumacher with t-shirt and bracelet, they are doing small, but important things. However, Aston Martin, who did(does?) co-operate with Racing Pride doesnt do anything like this. Matt Bishop travels to all these races, doesn't speak out or anything. That Aston Martin doesn't do anything isn't that surprising seeing how they handled June. That Bishop "just" retweets is a bit more curious, though I can see him having gone through the stuff he did when he first joined F1 is a bit reluctant, but then again. It wouldn't casue much stir if he ruffled some feathers and didn't get a paddock pass, not compared to Hamilton, Vettel or Schumacher.

 

This is why it's really helpful for people to see the trio of drivers showing and voicing their support. It quite honestly doesn't look like anyone that can actively change things in a broader sense cares, it doesn't feel like it matters outside the usual "oh, PR for June, go go!". Support in June is really nice to see, but the 11 other months are just as important for people that struggles.

[cpbell]

Isn’t it a bit unrealistic to expect any driver to boycott a race unilaterally just to make a point (or to not seem like a hypocrite)?

It would be an incredible thing to do, and I suspect it would divide opinion here like nothing else.

[Ruusperi]

If I was Lewis, I'd say there are no gods and Muhammad was a doofus, and see what happens. Just as a test. Would they or would they not dare to do anything?

Edited by Ruusperi, 03 December 2021 - 13:30.

[BerniesDad]

I'm glad Sterzo has raised this. Lewis as signed a contract to compete in each race. It's not for him to pick and choose which races he will attend.

(I've not seen his contract, but I doubt that Toto let him keep that clause about taking a weekend or two off at his own discretion to walk the dogs)

If any driver were to refuse to race at a particular event on the grounds of conscience, he would be dismissed and replaced with a driver without such strong opinions.

 

Now if the *teams* start to boycott events, then it's a different matter. They too are contracted to enter every event, but they could do an Indy2005 and refuse to take the start. And if everyone did it, then (a) no impact on the championships and (b) quite a big news event

[BerniesDad]

 Muhammad was a doofus

 

  at this. "Doofus" just isn't used enough these days.

[thiscocks]

Maybe they just don't care? I'm quite sure there's a couple on the grid that really don't care at all, because they don't experience any issues themselves, so it doesn't matter. Not sure that's any better.

 

What I find somewhat interesting is Hamilton with his helmet, Vettel with t-shirt and shoes. Mick Schumacher with t-shirt and bracelet, they are doing small, but important things. However, Aston Martin, who did(does?) co-operate with Racing Pride doesnt do anything like this. Matt Bishop travels to all these races, doesn't speak out or anything. That Aston Martin doesn't do anything isn't that surprising seeing how they handled June. That Bishop "just" retweets is a bit more curious, though I can see him having gone through the stuff he did when he first joined F1 is a bit reluctant, but then again. It wouldn't casue much stir if he ruffled some feathers and didn't get a paddock pass, not compared to Hamilton, Vettel or Schumacher.

 

This is why it's really helpful for people to see the trio of drivers showing and voicing their support. It quite honestly doesn't look like anyone that can actively change things in a broader sense cares, it doesn't feel like it matters outside the usual "oh, PR for June, go go!". Support in June is really nice to see, but the 11 other months are just as important for people that struggles.

I'm sure there are some that don't care. There may also be some who are actively involved in humanitarian issues outside the sport. Most I'm sure donate to charities ect which they want to help. I just don't expect (or want) every driver to have a little label on them saying what world issues they care about. I'm afraid we'll have to disagree with virtue signalling being a small but important thing. How do you know Aston Martin do absolutely nothing? Just based on what lables they have on the car or public events they do, or don't do? You can't expect a team to publicly slam a country they visit on the calendar while taking cash from them. 

[Myrvold]

I'm sure there are some that don't care. There may also be some who are actively involved in humanitarian issues outside the sport. Most I'm sure donate to charities ect which they want to help.

 
There may be, or there may not be. That's something we don't know? Or do we?
 

I just don't expect (or want) every driver to have a little label on them saying what world issues they care about. I'm afraid we'll have to disagree with virtue signalling being a small but important thing.

To be blunt, unless you have something to back up that these kind of small things (like the helmet, t-shirt etc.) doesn't actually, I'm not agreeing to disagree. Like I've said, I've lost friends due to this. I know people in racing that, in their own words "live a lie because that's expected" (even though I disagree with it). These things actually does help. Help is way more than changing a law. It does help, and it helps even more when it happens outside of that one month...
We can agree to disagree if you bring that, if not I'm honestly just going to think that you don't want to accept that these things help, for whatever reason you have.
 

How do you know Aston Martin do absolutely nothing? Just based on what lables they have on the car or public events they do, or don't do? You can't expect a team to publicly slam a country they visit on the calendar while taking cash from them.

Read again. I referred to these kind of (relatively) small public things. I even included a "does?" when it comes to co-operate with Racing Pride, which they still do. I am however singling out Aston Martin because they went public and a fairly big deal about Racing Pride and pride month in June. Just to avoid all kind of pride during Baku, which was in June. It's the typical company jumping on the PR-bandwagon. I am also fairly sure it would be pointed out by Racing Pride and or Matt Bishop if they had done something that could be reported on.

I am not expecting drivers or teams to come out slamming any countries (unless you think a t-shirt with a rainbow logo, like Schumacher, or a rainbow-helmet is slamming...). I do however expect companies, teams etc. that goes out public with massive support to actually follow up, no matter where they are in the world.

[Alfisti]

It's about consistency of message and credibility of one's ask to take action. And that's what this is, the signaling is, after all, meant to create action from the public and therefore consequence for the parties involved that treat people poorly. You need credibility to get the public to move the needle and being sponsored by a regime that deems homosexuality as illegal, smacks as a lack of credibility.

 

If one was an anti-gun advocate, could one then take a handsome annual payment from Smith and Wesson or say Bass Pro Shops (sellers of fire arms)? This is literally the same thing with Lewis and Petronas. It is very much "do as I say, not as I do". 

Edited by Alfisti, 03 December 2021 - 20:40.

[Bartonz20let]

It's about consistency of message and credibility of one's ask to take action. And that's what this is, the signaling is, after all, meant to create action from the public and therefore consequence for the parties involved that treat people poorly. You need credibility to get the public to move the needle and being sponsored by a regime that deems homosexuality as illegal, smacks as a lack of credibility.

If one was an anti-gun advocate, could one then take a handsome annual payment from Smith and Wesson or say Bass Pro Shops (sellers of fire arms)? This is literally the same thing with Lewis and Petronas. It is very much "do as I say, not as I do".

Really poor logic.

Lewis is one of the few people with the credibility to even be able to make a gesture like this.

The sponsor of the company he works for has nothing to do with his credibility, it's just a cheap shot.

It's like saying anyone who's ever purchased a product made in China can't be critical of their human rights record.

It's simply not how the world works, although, I'm sure you were aware of this when you posted.

Edited by Bartonz20let, 03 December 2021 - 20:57.

[Singularity]

It's about consistency of message and credibility of one's ask to take action. And that's what this is, the signaling is, after all, meant to create action from the public and therefore consequence for the parties involved that treat people poorly. You need credibility to get the public to move the needle and being sponsored by a regime that deems homosexuality as illegal, smacks as a lack of credibility.

 

If one was an anti-gun advocate, could one then take a handsome annual payment from Smith and Wesson or say Bass Pro Shops (sellers of fire arms)? This is literally the same thing with Lewis and Petronas. It is very much "do as I say, not as I do". 

Yes! Wait... No!  eh.. what? Seriously: What?

 
And: "literally the same thing"? 

[PitViperRacing]

Really poor logic.

Lewis is one of the few people with the credibility to even be able to make a gesture like this.

The sponsor of the company he works for has nothing to do with his credibility, it's just a cheap shot.

It's like saying anyone who's ever purchased a product made in China can't be critical of their human rights record.

It's simply not how the world works, although, I'm sure you were aware of this when you posted.

 

I actually think there's some strong merit to the argument. If you continue to publicly denounce something, isn't it somewhat hypocritical to directly profit from it? Also absolutely who you work for/what you associate with is a reflection of your credibility of an issue. It'd be like F1 drivers in the 80s/90s publicly criticising the health impacts of smoking while having Malboro slapped on the rear wing. You wouldn't take them seriously then, so why would you take Lewis seriously now ref. Saudi Arabia?

 

Also comparing Lewis' situation to a consumer buying a product that was made/had parts made in China is a false equivalency. Lewis directly represents/profits from organisations that support things he denounces. Not exactly the same thing imo.

Edited by PitViperRacing, 03 December 2021 - 21:36.

[Bartonz20let]

I actually think there's some strong merit to the argument. If you continue to publicly denounce something, isn't it somewhat hypocritical to directly profit from it?

No more hypocritical that someone who eats meat believing cattle should be raised in healthy environments or people campaign for climate action whilst consuming carbon for energy.

As part of the LGBTQ+ community I admire him and wish more would do the same for all inequality, I'm a bit lost as to why it needs to be torn down.

[PitViperRacing]

No more hypocritical that someone who eats meat believing cattle should be raised in healthy environments or people campaign for climate action whilst consuming carbon for energy.

As part of the LGBTQ+ community I admire him and wish more would do the same for all inequality, I'm a bit lost as to why it needs to be torn down.

First part I agree with, unless they're eating free-range meat. Second half is slightly different considering one is a necessity for basic function.

 

That's fine, I'm more-so just trying to point out there's the other side of the coin; and that argument has some solid validity to it.

[ARTGP]

I actually think there's some strong merit to the argument. If you continue to publicly denounce something, isn't it somewhat hypocritical to directly profit from it? 

 

I've seen OP's comment about Petronas and I didn't agree with it then, and still don't agree with it now.  Lewis isn't employed by Petronas. He can certainly protest with his employer about the Petronas sponsorship, but he's not in control of it, and he shouldn't have to give up his employment with Mercedes just to placate critics. God knows what kind of unseedy child slave labor money finds it's way into our own lives whether through employment or equities. That doesn't mean we "Approve". It simply reflects a reality where you can't always escape the things you protest. But you can certainly go the "change from within" route. 

 

And even if Lewis was taking direct payments from Petronas, what if he would turn around and use that money to do something good?  Better that money be used for good, than to simply go towards lobbying against human rights....

Edited by ARTGP, 03 December 2021 - 22:16.

[PitViperRacing]

I've seen OP's comment about Petronas and I didn't agree with it then, and still don't agree with it now.  Lewis isn't employed by Petronas. He can certainly protest with his employer about the Petronas sponsorship, but he's not in control of it, and he shouldn't have to give up his employment with Mercedes just to placate critics. God knows what kind of unseedy child slave labor money finds it's way into our own lives whether through employment or equities. That doesn't mean we "Approve". It simply reflects a reality where you can't always escape the things you protest. But you can certainly go the "change from within" route. 

 

And even if Lewis was taking direct payments from Petronas, what if he would turn around and use that money to do something good?  Better that money be used for good, than to simply go towards lobbying against human rights....

That's fair enough, and that's probably where the point of disagreement comes from. It doesn't make their argument invalid, just different perspective 

[Singularity]

 

 

Also comparing Lewis' situation to a consumer buying a product that was made/had parts made in China is a false equivalency. Lewis directly represents/profits from organisations that support things he denounces. Not exactly the same thing imo.

So Mercedes support gender- and LBGT discrimination?

[hansmann]

So Mercedes support gender- and LBGT discrimination?

 

Yes, of course they do, via the Petronas sponsorship . So do McLaren and Ferrari with the funding they get from Arab countries .

And let's not get started on FOM /'Liberty' ....

 

But at the same time, they are companies based in more developed countries, who are run by Western standards, and beyond that have policies in place that support equality rights .

It's not a perfect world, and sometimes you have to walk and chew gum at the same time , or deal with holding two conflicting thoughts in your mind .

[Singularity]

Yes, of course they do, via the Petronas sponsorship . So do McLaren and Ferrari with the funding they get from Arab countries .

And let's not get started on FOM /'Liberty' ....

 

But at the same time, they are companies based in more developed countries, who are run by Western standards, and beyond that have policies in place that support equality rights .

It's not a perfect world, and sometimes you have to walk and chew gum at the same time , or deal with holding two conflicting thoughts in your mind .

Ah, you mean "indirectly"?
I was answering a poster saying "Lewis directly represents..."

We all, at least 99.9% of us, indirectly represent organizations, attitudes or events that goes against our beliefs. Does that mean we should all just STFU?

[FirstnameLastname]

Matt Bishop has done great things to raise awareness of Gay issues this season.

[Ross Stonefeld]

What, when Aston supported pride month on their cars but not necessarily in all race-countries that month?

[RekF1]

Matt Bishop has done great things to raise awareness of Gay issues this season.

He shouldn't have to. When Lewis demanded some compassion from his peers last year (George Floyd related) it was eventually reciprocated. But that shouldn't be a drivers job. He shouldn't have felt the need to point out the obvious.

Saudi Arabia is not your friend.

[Bartonz20let]

Does that mean we should all just STFU?

I think some people will say literally anything to try shut the conversation down

[thiscocks]

He shouldn't have to. When Lewis demanded some compassion from his peers last year (George Floyd related) it was eventually reciprocated. But that shouldn't be a drivers job. He shouldn't have felt the need to point out the obvious.

Saudi Arabia is not your friend.

'demanded some compassion'. You mean forced to take part in a protest? No it's not the drivers job, nor F1's job to get involved in world wide identity politics. 

 

Many countries around the world 'are not your friend' then if you solely compare their human rights laws with most western countries. I expect Lewis will have something on his helmet regarding the imprisonment of Muslims when we next go to China then. Or not.

[absinthedude]

"Lewis and Petronas"  is a straw man argument. 

 

I can pretty much guarantee we've all worked for organisations which had *some* policies or activities we felt uneasy with. Technically, we represent the organisations we work while we are working. But how many of us can actually say we've never criticised our employers, or some standard our employers promote?.

 

I can pretty much guarantee we've all voted for political parties who don't 100% represent every one of our political beliefs. Because life is about compromises. We do the best we can. 

 

Without the incredible privilege of being a multiple WDC, Lewis Hamilton and (and Seb, and any others who campaign) would not be in the position to be heard....to have influence. He is not, nor has he ever been, employed by Petronas. He is employed by AMG Mercedes F1 (or some trading arm thereof) who are sponsored by Petronas, sure....but they don't pay his wages. 

 

I strongly suspect the attempts at explaining why Lewis Hamilton shouldn't air his strongly held beliefs are down to two things....people just not liking Lewis Hamilton...and people who are made uncomfortable by hearing his beliefs. He has every right to talk, campaign, protest. And he has every right to do it the way he wants to, not by some way prescribed by an armchair fan who probably faces none of the discrimination and oppression he's drawing attention to. 

[Ross Stonefeld]

He draws money more directly from Petronas than he does from the host fees for Saudi Arabia. I admit we're all hypocrites about Malaysia vs Saudi, but it's definitely a double standard.

 

"Fortunately" the things wrong with Saudi Arabia go wwwaaaaay beyond the LGBTetc stuff.

[Myrvold]

Not sure it's wise to drag this thread up again. But it is June, Baku is done, partnership between Racing Pride and Alpine was announced before the weekend.

 

And Alpine actually followed through with it, not skipping Baku like Aston Martin did last year. Thumbs up for Alpine there. If you gonna do the corporate-June where you suddenly pretend something, do it fully! 

[BRG]

And clearly F1 is having a beneficial influence on Saudi society.

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...e-east-61813390

[Ross Stonefeld]

Damnit, and I was planning on opening Lisa Frank stores. 

[shure]

I think we need to look at what boycotting actually means. It's mentioned as though you just don't turn up and everyone is happy. Hamilton has said he didn't choose to go there, and he is literally correct. He signed a long term contract with Mercedes. What are the implications for your honesty, your reputation, your future in racing and your subsequent future in business if you prove yourself untrustworthy by breaking contracts? I would never do that.

 

 

 

Maybe he does. How would we know? We are aware that (like many top sportsmen) he does support charities, we don't and won't know which ones.

 

I realise you're trying to explain the logic in the views of others, but it's noticeable that they haven't been able to do that themselves. Someone can be a critic of Hamilton's actions without being racist or a hater of Hamilton, but they can also be guilty of being illogical. People often settle on a conclusion without thinking things through, then refuse to abandon their position.

Wouldn't it be odd if a driver campaigned publicly for a cause and then donated privately?  Wouldn't it be a powerful message were a driver to show they were putting their money where their mouth was?

 

Not trying to comment on anyone in particular but I think it's hard to reconcile the idea of secret donations while publicly campaigning on issues

[bargeboard]

Wouldn't it be odd if a driver campaigned publicly for a cause and then donated privately?  Wouldn't it be a powerful message were a driver to show they were putting their money where their mouth was?

 

And then the narrative would be "Oh look at richie rich there telling us about how amazing he is and how many dollars he's giving. Must need attention to be doing it publicly". 

[Nobody]

And clearly F1 is having a beneficial influence on Saudi society.

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...e-east-61813390

 

good thing it doesn't rain often, clouds are known to throw up pride symbols after a downpour

[RekF1]

I saw an hour long interview with Matt Bishop which was on YT. They cover so many different topics but because of his links to racing pride I've posted it here.

It's very insightful and he seems such a good man. Might need a box of tissues for this one of anyone gets time.

https://youtu.be/t4BbhzelWQQ

Edited by RekF1, 18 June 2022 - 15:13.